Crowfall: Attacking & Defending Cities Detailed in New Video

SBFord · April 2015

The Crowfall team has released a new, interesting video to show off an essential component of the game that they call the Bloodstone Campaign ruleset. Building and defending cities is an integral part of the core PvP game play that Crowfall embodies. Players can attack, though they may run into roving defenders aimed at cutting off the attack before it happens. Check out the concept video to see it in action.

Wizardry · April 2015

Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

That is what really happens and it almost never works.On the other hand if you have set NPC/PVE's you knwo are possibly at various parts of the world,it means everyone is in on the grouping up and going out to fight,knowing they will have instant action.Then you add in REASON,i definitely would not want to pvp just because i can,i couldn't care less.

An example is your guild goes out and conquers an Orc Stronghold to gain some valuable crafting ideas or perhaps it allows your guild to hire those Orcs to farm wood for your guild or whatever other cool rpg aspect you can add to the game.You can even think along the lowest lines such as going into Deathfist Citadel to earn some crafting recipes.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

Ikonic · April 2015

Is that Mark Cuban's little brother?

Neherun · April 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

That is what really happens and it almost never works.On the other hand if you have set NPC/PVE's you knwo are possibly at various parts of the world,it means everyone is in on the grouping up and going out to fight,knowing they will have instant action.Then you add in REASON,i definitely would not want to pvp just because i can,i couldn't care less.

An example is your guild goes out and conquers an Orc Stronghold to gain some valuable crafting ideas or perhaps it allows your guild to hire those Orcs to farm wood for your guild or whatever other cool rpg aspect you can add to the game.You can even think along the lowest lines such as going into Deathfist Citadel to earn some crafting recipes.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

You certainly haven't played in an organized PvP clan before. If people know their bloodstone is going to cycle and there's a siege window at 10 p.m on Monday, the whole guild is going to be there. Meanwhile on at least another clans forum there's a discussion going on whether or not they will use this WoO (Window of Opportunity) and siege against said guild.

FacelessSavior · April 2015

Clearly this game is geared more towards people with my playstyle than yours. If it wuz setup like the scenario you just described I'd be bored to tears. You wished it wuz setup like Death fist Citadel? Static content that the player has no effect on, that resets for the next group that comes along? And that doesn't feel meaningless to you? Running content that just resets and has no impact on anything or player in the game is the epitome of pointless in my opinion. MMO's come alive wen interactions with other players, positive or negative, are allowed. This is an area that vast majority of MMO's hav completely neglected for that past decade or so. Thank God a few companies are stepping up to bucc the bland trends and trying to breath life into the genre again. There's enuff MMO single player simulators on the market without calling for Crowfall to be turned into one as well.

n3verendR · April 2015

Speaking from Shadowbane, DAoC experience as well as Lineage 2 / GW2 to a lesser degree...

Wizardry, I could pretty much tell you've never really played a PvP siege game before. If you don't mind I'd like to paint a picture for you?

So in Shadowbane on the server "Death" there were two clans. One was House Lok'ri, the other was... LSV? Lumen Solis Victus maybe? Anyways, there was a war between the two. It all started over a spawn point dispute for a rare mob with a VERY important item that would give you a sub-class called "Commander".

So LSV takes a small squad, and starts an argument over the point saying, "It's their turn". So what started as an argument turns into an all out political drama where everyone and their mother is on edge and ready to fight the opposing side. More and more forces move into the area. Eventually, discussions break down into a fight. Lok'ri had a larger force at the time and they wiped LSV out.

Immediately following respawns, there is a siege set up. LSV attacks an ally of Lok'ri to get their pound of flesh. From there it literally is all out war. Now mind you this is a multiple day conflict, that was closed out by one force crushing the other - the other side that lost had to rebuild, and by then there were multiple other large guilds that encompassed the other 90% of the map that this conflict was NOT taking place on.

PvP games absolutely work, Crowfall developers know what they are doing. The only real question is, will their product be high quality and fun to play.

Bare in mind, the conflict I just described happened in... 2001, 2002 or so. 2015-2017 being the release window is plenty of time to let stuff like that gestate.

sludgebeard · April 2015

Amazing concept and video, I love strategy in my PvP

Hellidol · April 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

That is what really happens and it almost never works.On the other hand if you have set NPC/PVE's you knwo are possibly at various parts of the world,it means everyone is in on the grouping up and going out to fight,knowing they will have instant action.Then you add in REASON,i definitely would not want to pvp just because i can,i couldn't care less.

An example is your guild goes out and conquers an Orc Stronghold to gain some valuable crafting ideas or perhaps it allows your guild to hire those Orcs to farm wood for your guild or whatever other cool rpg aspect you can add to the game.You can even think along the lowest lines such as going into Deathfist Citadel to earn some crafting recipes.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

IMO this was a very good example of what could happen. I really like the way stuff could play out in this game.

Kaneth · April 2015

This sounds pretty awesome to be honest. This is the type of open world pvp that I absolutely love.

Booshoo · April 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

That is what really happens and it almost never works.On the other hand if you have set NPC/PVE's you knwo are possibly at various parts of the world,it means everyone is in on the grouping up and going out to fight,knowing they will have instant action.Then you add in REASON,i definitely would not want to pvp just because i can,i couldn't care less.

An example is your guild goes out and conquers an Orc Stronghold to gain some valuable crafting ideas or perhaps it allows your guild to hire those Orcs to farm wood for your guild or whatever other cool rpg aspect you can add to the game.You can even think along the lowest lines such as going into Deathfist Citadel to earn some crafting recipes.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

He has a point. Players itself wont amuse eachother for a long time and PVE scenarios like that will keep everyone busy - look at Rift invasions / rifts

rounner · April 2015

I don't get it; the drama described is generated by the players. In any pvp game organised guilds can set traps, ambushes, choke points, rally points etc. How is this different from any other capture the flag battlefield game?

Soki123 · April 2015

Between this and CU, I ll be a very busy gamer.

Toodles · April 2015

Bloodstones sound so much like Banestones circa Shadowbane era. I've been waiting for something like SB to be developed since they shut it down so long ago. Easily my favorite MMO of all the niche pvp mmo's.

Also @Wizardry - It's blatantly clear you're not the niche market this game is aimed at. Please just don't bother looking any more at it and giving absolutely horrendous input as you've already done.

cobaltdemon · April 2015

I have played both sides of this scenario, in EvE. This is the game-play I have been looking for. Now, all that has to happen is the it actually gets to release. Hoping but not holding breath.

Sovrath · April 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

Wizardry, have you ever played a pvp game with hardcore devoted pvp players?

Because if you say "yes" then ...

FacelessSavior · April 2015

Love seeing all this positive feedback and support. Sometimes I feel like I'm the last mmo gamer in the world who remembers how fun games with this much freedom can be.

rodarin · April 2015

Yup the same thing has been said about every other timed siege game ever created. All sounds great in theory, and the white knights (with their typical name dropping) come in and espouse how awesome it is going to be. The FIRST time is always the most populated one, then as people see flaws and bugs and issues they come less and less until eventually no one shows up and all the time ad money spent on it was wasted.

But I want ot know where all the 'hardcore' devoted' PvP ers are? How many PvP focused games have come out the past couple years? None of them have anyone playing them, and the guys here drooling over Crowfall certainly arent playing anything now because if they were they wouldnt be in the forums everyday hyping this game.

Or more than likely they will do to this game what they have done to every other PvP game that was going to reinvent PvP, get all excited see the system failure and leave just like they have all the others.

Allein · April 2015

Originally posted by rodarin
Yup the same thing has been said about every other timed siege game ever created. All sounds great in theory, and the white knights (with their typical name dropping) come in and espouse how awesome it is going to be. The FIRST time is always the most populated one, then as people see flaws and bugs and issues they come less and less until eventually no one shows up and all the time ad money spent on it was wasted.

But I want ot know where all the 'hardcore' devoted' PvP ers are? How many PvP focused games have come out the past couple years? None of them have anyone playing them, and the guys here drooling over Crowfall certainly arent playing anything now because if they were they wouldnt be in the forums everyday hyping this game.

Or more than likely they will do to this game what they have done to every other PvP game that was going to reinvent PvP, get all excited see the system failure and leave just like they have all the others.

That is a very good question.

Could you name a few? Of those, how many were actually "PVP focused" and not PVE games with PVP tacked on as a mini-side game or alternative end-game? How many were made by a team with enough talent/funding to actually produce what they envisioned and that weren't full of bugs, unfinished features, and overall poor quality?

For the most part, almost all the "PVP" games I've played or heard of over the years have lost their spark due to hard to ignore issues that were stronger then the possible entertainment value of the games themselves.

I've never went "Well that was fun, but I'm bored, next" when it comes to a PVP game. Be it PVP MMORPG, FPS, RTS, MOBA, etc. It has always been some nagging issue that detracts from my entertainment and can't be ignored easily. Which almost always goes hand in hand with numbers dropping and the games bleeding players, so that even if I wanted to ignore the problems, there aren't enough folks around to ignore them with.

Malabooga · April 2015

Originally posted by Booshoo
Originally posted by Wizardry
Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

That is what really happens and it almost never works.On the other hand if you have set NPC/PVE's you knwo are possibly at various parts of the world,it means everyone is in on the grouping up and going out to fight,knowing they will have instant action.Then you add in REASON,i definitely would not want to pvp just because i can,i couldn't care less.

An example is your guild goes out and conquers an Orc Stronghold to gain some valuable crafting ideas or perhaps it allows your guild to hire those Orcs to farm wood for your guild or whatever other cool rpg aspect you can add to the game.You can even think along the lowest lines such as going into Deathfist Citadel to earn some crafting recipes.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

He has a point. Players itself wont amuse eachother for a long time and PVE scenarios like that will keep everyone busy - look at Rift invasions / rifts

Is thah why online PvP games are >>>>> MMOs (with terribad PvP tucked on)

Players have been amusing themselves much better than some scripted orc that you pwn every thursday night (and thats it, you can log in next thursday to pwn him again)

Allein · April 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

The beauty of subjective reasoning.

Looking at the online gaming market, clearly gamers as a whole do not share your view, but it is yours to have.

Hint: 1 game consisting of killing a bunch of meaningless players has more players than every PVE (western at least) game combined. So as far as "ruling" PVE only does so in the minds of those that enjoy it, not based on actual factual numbers.

simmihi · April 2015

Even if i'm not a PvP focused player, i love the idea of a time window when a keep/castle/general objective could be attacked. It reminds me of Anarchy Online and their Notum Fields - when we planned on attacking the other side, everyone was there, large, huge groups. We took their fields, they were taken by surprise and were defending with what they've got and then all the opposing side was in the game, trying to take their fields back and / or attacking our fields. These fields were important, as you could build towers on them, and these towers gave serious buffs for players.

I think that's what's missing from today's PvE games with a PvP/siege flavor - if everything can be attacked at all times and the boosts from keeping an objective are very low, with the most "progress" coming from actually gaining control of the objective, the players end up just trading objectives.

Sluske · April 2015

Their main focus from start should be dealing with hacking/exploits. That's all I have to add.

SpottyGekko · April 2015

Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by rodarin
Yup the same thing has been said about every other timed siege game ever created. All sounds great in theory, and the white knights (with their typical name dropping) come in and espouse how awesome it is going to be. The FIRST time is always the most populated one, then as people see flaws and bugs and issues they come less and less until eventually no one shows up and all the time ad money spent on it was wasted.

But I want ot know where all the 'hardcore' devoted' PvP ers are? How many PvP focused games have come out the past couple years? None of them have anyone playing them, and the guys here drooling over Crowfall certainly arent playing anything now because if they were they wouldnt be in the forums everyday hyping this game.

Or more than likely they will do to this game what they have done to every other PvP game that was going to reinvent PvP, get all excited see the system failure and leave just like they have all the others.

That is a very good question.

Could you name a few? Of those, how many were actually "PVP focused" and not PVE games with PVP tacked on as a mini-side game or alternative end-game? How many were made by a team with enough talent/funding to actually produce what they envisioned and that weren't full of bugs, unfinished features, and overall poor quality?

For the most part, almost all the "PVP" games I've played or heard of over the years have lost their spark due to hard to ignore issues that were stronger then the possible entertainment value of the games themselves.

I've never went "Well that was fun, but I'm bored, next" when it comes to a PVP game. Be it PVP MMORPG, FPS, RTS, MOBA, etc. It has always been some nagging issue that detracts from my entertainment and can't be ignored easily. Which almost always goes hand in hand with numbers dropping and the games bleeding players, so that even if I wanted to ignore the problems, there aren't enough folks around to ignore them with.

The simple fact is that PVP just doesn't hold any sustained mass-appeal in MMO format.

The vast majority of PVP games are lobby-based instant action games. There's no need for grinding, character progression, gear, etc.. Classic MMO's are not designed that way, which is why they cannot ever rival MOBA'a and the CS/CoD/Battlefield /WoT type shooters.

Every time a new "PVP-focused" MMO is announced, everyone hopes that "this time it will be different". It never is, because it cannot be.

cheyane · April 2015

That sounds like a lot of fun would love to join some organized guilds and pull this off. I think this game is definitely something to look out for.

Dullahan · April 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
Imo it is a terrible scenario not likely to ever happen.Stuff like that works 100x better in a PVE scenario than pvp.

These guys need to sit back and think about the players and what is likely going to happen.

Do they think there is going to be large groups of guilds sitting there waiting to take part in a scenario?No players login,ask what do we do now,then what?Some guild leader says hey every player that login lets ask them to form a group and wait for more to login.Then maybe we will find another group also waiting to fill their ranks to fight us along the way.

That is what really happens and it almost never works.On the other hand if you have set NPC/PVE's you knwo are possibly at various parts of the world,it means everyone is in on the grouping up and going out to fight,knowing they will have instant action.Then you add in REASON,i definitely would not want to pvp just because i can,i couldn't care less.

An example is your guild goes out and conquers an Orc Stronghold to gain some valuable crafting ideas or perhaps it allows your guild to hire those Orcs to farm wood for your guild or whatever other cool rpg aspect you can add to the game.You can even think along the lowest lines such as going into Deathfist Citadel to earn some crafting recipes.

The reason PVE rules big time over pvp,is because when you defeat say a stronghold of Orcs or that giant Boss you feel like you accomplished a great feat.You kill a bunch of other meaningless players it just feels ho hum,sort of like ok what now?

Yep.

... and sig.

Tempestdrake · April 2015

Originally posted by Reizlanzer
Speaking from Shadowbane, DAoC experience as well as Lineage 2 / GW2 to a lesser degree...

Wizardry, I could pretty much tell you've never really played a PvP siege game before. If you don't mind I'd like to paint a picture for you?

So in Shadowbane on the server "Death" there were two clans. One was House Lok'ri, the other was... LSV? Lumen Solis Victus maybe? Anyways, there was a war between the two. It all started over a spawn point dispute for a rare mob with a VERY important item that would give you a sub-class called "Commander".

So LSV takes a small squad, and starts an argument over the point saying, "It's their turn". So what started as an argument turns into an all out political drama where everyone and their mother is on edge and ready to fight the opposing side. More and more forces move into the area. Eventually, discussions break down into a fight. Lok'ri had a larger force at the time and they wiped LSV out.

Immediately following respawns, there is a siege set up. LSV attacks an ally of Lok'ri to get their pound of flesh. From there it literally is all out war. Now mind you this is a multiple day conflict, that was closed out by one force crushing the other - the other side that lost had to rebuild, and by then there were multiple other large guilds that encompassed the other 90% of the map that this conflict was NOT taking place on.

PvP games absolutely work, Crowfall developers know what they are doing. The only real question is, will their product be high quality and fun to play.

Bare in mind, the conflict I just described happened in... 2001, 2002 or so. 2015-2017 being the release window is plenty of time to let stuff like that gestate.

Commander Rune was the cause of so many fights, lmao.

I can say from experience that this scenario does work. The PvP that was in Shadowbane was entertaining beyond even my own understanding. Guildmates that I game with still talk about those battles and gaming.

I do see issues, however. One being that the PvP'rs in this day are spoiled by todays games. Instant gratification is ruining a lot of this. For example, one of my greatest memories and battles is a 36hour AV in WoW. Now it is nerfed and modified to be quick and rather boring in my opinion. The second thing is the "zerg". One of the main killers of open world PvP. In my experience, it has been the main reason I have seen things become "boring".

Pve is fun but eventually that losses its flare. Pve is filled with repetition and patterns that people figure out and make it into a simplified routine that is done daily until everyone is a zombie to it and require more expansions/change just so they can go figure it all out in a few days again. The pattern of expansions being beaten in a few days now is in itself, a poster for bordemn.

I am not against PvE, nor am I a "PvP fanatic". But a healthy balance of the two is what keeps myself entertained. I feel as though Crowfall is on the right track. How it is executed will be the big factor. I am excited to see it unfold.

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