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Is there an AD&D MMORPG being developed at all?
Thaledan
Member Posts: 2
I've never beta tested D&D Online but I've read many reviews.
I was hoping it would be an MMORPG not a "dungeons and 1 city" game and shall not be playing it however I wish it success of course.
I'm wondering if there is an MMORPG being developed that is based on the AD&D ruleset at all? Does anyone know of any?
The campaign settings I liked the most were the Forgotten Realms followed by Dragonlance.
Thanks
Future of Mankind - An Assessment of Earths Destiny
Everquest - cancelled after 16 levels.
Dark Age of Camelot - retired after 3 years.
Horizons - cancelled after 15 levels.
World of Warcraft - active since Euro-launch
Comments
AD&D is an outdated rules set which is no longer used.
D&D3.0 and 3.5 will be at the root of any and all future licences.
Forgotten Realms is still produced and supported.
Dragonlance was piped off to a seperate company which AFAIK only produced one book.
Ravenloft did the same.
Planescape and DarkSun now only exist as online updated sets to the new rules.
The odds of there being an AD&D game of any sort are slim to none, emphasis on the none.
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AD&D ruleset is outdated - last rpg games to come out in this ruleset is Baldurs gate 1&2 ,Torment and Icewind Dale (all great games)
D20 D&D 3.5 edition is the official D&D ruleset right now.
And there is no MMORPG's developed in this ruleset - Since DDO is a joke , and it is MMORPG just as much Guild Wars is. Also it only resembles D&D rules being kind of console action version of rpg.
However if you look for good D&D experience in online persistant worlds
Wait for
Neverwinter Nights 2
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
If memory serves me correctly, this first part of the game that we're expecting at launch covers the northern portion of the continent seen here --> http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/PgtE_Maps/95631.jpg
From what I can tell on this page --> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20060130a
There's a lot more room to create content. Levels 1-10 at release and the classes available at release are just that, at release. They certainly have plenty of room for growth in DDO. I often play games because I see the potential in them. I believe DDO has great potential and has started out really well. I need to explain that I like the idea of instancing for D&D as well as some of the other critical game design decisions these guys are making.
so...
DDO is pretty easily summed up as "dungeons and 1 city." Some dungeons are outdoor dungeons/instances, but that short description is still pretty close to what the game is focused on being. There are no exploration areas (other than a dozen or so outdoor dungeons/instances).
This game has as much exploration as Baldur's Gate.
This is not standard for MMOs. Most MMOs offer a free-roaming enviornemnt while DDO offers focused location that have hidden goodies and alternate paths to explore.
I would sum the game up as "NWN MMO"
There are dedicated persistant NWN modules but none are massive since you need some serious hardware to support that, that is why NWN is not an MMO.
On the other hand DDO supports massive numbers of players per server (1000+), and thus it is not only a Multiplayer Online (MO) game, but a Massivley Mutliplayer Online (MMO) game. The gameplay is similar to NWN except you have more control voer your character ( I just hope the DDO devs provide as much quality content as the modders in NWN [not likely] ).
And don't give me any of that crap about GW and DDO not being MMOs because they have instances. The size of the areas has nothing to do with the number of players.
I played beta until last week and I was very dissappointed.
it is more like GW than WOW or AC.
very limited, not much content I got bored pretty fast which stinks since I really wanted it to be my next game.
Now I'm taking a look at Hero's Journey, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and Darkfall.
I might have a long wait for my next game
You'd probably be able to battle with more people consistantly in a NWN world. Should be a few shards around doing 20+ people consistantly. And NWN2 is on the way...
I'm waiting for people to start considering DiabloII aMMORPG and Battlefield2 a MMOFPS. Both let you see 100's of other avartars at once and chat with them all... The later lets 60+ people all fight it out at once
If we consider the size of the continious map to be the requierment for massive Diablo2 sure fits the bill. It's persistant, it's a massive landsize. It is online so it must be an MMO! .... right....
If we consider the number of players that can "play" (as in fight monsters, or wahtever) in one area then BF2 is an MMO since EQ2 only has 40 men raids while BF2 supports 62! BF2 is hands-down the better MMO.
Or is the requierment for an MMO to be able to run into a random person while your adventuring in a dungeon? .... If that is the case I think that MMOs are not for me. Why would I want to run into some person camping the boss I came to kill?
Sadly all true. Except I do believe Dragonlance put out at least four or five books already for 3.5.
Let me play Devils Advocate here...
Going with your line of thought... If you consider size of map, then DDO is not an MMO... If you consider number of players, then DDO is not an MMO... I know that you are trying to make a point about what an MMO actually is...
Now let's consider what an MMO really is... First part... Massively/Massive How does DDO fit this? Depending on what you mean by massive, DDO could be considered Massive, or it coule be considered not to be Massive. So how does DDO fit Massive to you?
Second part... Multiplayer... Do you just have to have a lot of players online at the same time? Or do you need to have the ability to see those players online? DDO may have a huge ammount of players online at any one time, but you never really get that feeling since everything is instanced. I played in the last beta event and the stree I was on had 9 different instances. And I have seen more.
Last part... Online... This seems easy enough... If you are online, that is that. Right?
So, is DDO an MMOG? Let's forget about the RP part. That is a whole new question. Obviously it is... After all they are advertising it as such. But if DDO is considered an MMO, why isn't NWN one? Why isn't any of the other game you mentioned one?
Now for a question that has been bugging me about all of the DDO instancing... Take for instance you and I are playing and you are flagged as LFG. I open my LFG window and see your name. If I join your group and we are in a different instance. When we go into a tavern, will we both be in the same instance automatically? Or will we have to tell each other which instance we are in and decide who will change instances so we can see each other? I know that when we enter a quest instance, we are toghther... But what about all of the other times we enter instances? And if our group is not always in the same instance, doesn't that take away from the RPing?
Ian,
If you have not done so already you can read my previous post in this thread. I think I give a good definition why DDO is an MMO and NWN is not, and why Massivley Multiplayer is ... called Massivley Multiplayer.
The post you quoted is supposed to illustrate that an MMO is not necessarily a huge open world with 1000 players trying to find a spot to hunt. You are right by pointing out that DDO does not fit in any of those 3 categories I listed, and it was my intent to show that DDO does not fit those things, but they are not exclusive to MMOs and therefore cannot be regarded as the req for an MMO.
It is also true you never get "the feeling" of being in an MMO, but I think that's a good thing when it comes to DnD. The players are there, you can meet them if you wish, but once you are all set up for an adventure DDO becomes a MOG like NWN. I think this is the part that makes everyone go shouting "OMG NOT MMO!!!!" We are acustomed to share the play areas with everyone since the days of the Big Three. But if you look at a normal play session in most other MMO it goes like this:
-wait in town and shout "so and so LFG to do so and so"
-once you have a group you jump on an automated travel medium (horse, gryphon, ship, portal, etc)
-do the quest, mission, ... or just grind the mobs
This is not that much different from DDO, except DDO streamlined the first two items.
Sure, there are instances in other MMOs where you go on by yourself and find someone to hunt with on the way, but that usually happens in MMOs that encourage soloing... and soloing is not something I want to do in an MMO.
.......................................
As to your questions about instancing:
-Taverns usually have 1 (sometimes 2) instance and so if you meet up there your group will be in the same place. Once you are grouped the game will always put all the group members in the same instance wherever you travel.
-It can happen that you are in a different city instance when you start if you are in the city, and so you will have to adjust to the same location (although it's not necessary). I agree that such things are immerson breakers and the whole loading thing is just not fun... Yet I think the benefits of this system outweigh this problem.
a. Never have to wait for respawn ... the real immersion breaker
b. it allows the game to give you a greater sence of achievement because the dead monsters stay dead... another immersion breaker
c. you don't have to worry about KS ... fustrating ...
d. less lag in popular areas .. nobody likes lag
e. Allows for in-mission scripted events
-----------------------------------------------------------
One can argue that DDO and GW are not MMOs because when you "experience" the game it does not feel like WoW or EQ. Subjectivley that is true, objectivley it's not (i.e. there are 1000s of people playing on the same server so it is massivley multiplayer).
Cheers!
-b
P.S. Sorry if you already read my previous post and was hinting at something else with the NWN comments that I did not interpet correctly.
Guild Wars and D&D Online obviously both have garnered a lot of grief over the fact that they are by many people's definitions not a MMORPG. People don't care too much what Guild Wars calls itself because it doesn't charge you more money. Cash is the bottom line here and most don't like calling D&D Online a MMORPG because not only is it lacking many elements that define that title but also and most importantly because they are asking for the same $14.99 a month that other games with much more content are asking for.
I also still have high hopes for Eberron and Forgotten Realms to see one or the other visualized on a lvl of the old Baldur's Gate series one day.
No problem... I have a fairly good idea as to where you were coming from, and where you are going...
Just a couple of points I would like to mention...
1. The instancing in Taverns... I have been in taverns where there were 5-7 instances. I just think that they, Turbine, need to open up the taverns and streets a little bit more. Make the player cap larger.
2. Your point b. I will admnit freely that I play WoW... And since we are talking about instances here... Most, if not all instances in WoW, the monsters stay dead till the instance is reset. So, basically the same thing. And as with DDO and WoW once the instance is reset, all monsters are back alive.
3. Your point c. I never had to worry about kill stealing in WoW. As long as you scored the first hit, it was your kill in any non-instanced fight. And in the instances, there was no kill stealing.
4. Your point d. The only time I experiences Lag in Wow was usually in Ironforge, a major city that had an Auction Hall. Otherwise, I never experienced Lag. Not to say there wasn't any, just I never saw it.
5. Your point e. What exactly do you mean by "in-mission" scripted events?
Yah, WoW instances ( at least the non-raid ones) are alot of fun and it was a part of the game I enjoyed a lot. It seems to me that DDO takes that gameplay to the next level by offering more in-depth instanced mission. [note: WOW does have respawning monsters in instances (except bosses), albait at a much longer respawn timer so that it is almost inconsequential]
------------------
By scripting I mean missions having ambushes, earthquaks, moving scenery, specific AI goals, etc. Things you usually expect from single player games.
Thanks for your posts.
D&D 3.5 is the latest ruleset then? Ok thanks. NWN used that didnt it? I liked NWN quite a bit but found the available, player-modded persistent worlds difficult and a bit boring to play because most of them used permadeath rules and also prevented frequent resting among other things. I would also have appreciated slightly more realistic terrain.
If some company produces a 2000+ player, persistent world, without many instances (some should be put in though imo) thats based on Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance then I think I might be in heaven when that comes out.
I may check out DDO when it comes out next month as I am a casual gamer (2-3 nights a week) and this might cater for my short term needs.
I'll also check out NWN2 as that might be what Im looking for in the meantime.
What would you want to see come out???
Cheers! (UK English for "Thank you")
Jim
Future of Mankind - An Assessment of Earths Destiny
Everquest - cancelled after 16 levels.
Dark Age of Camelot - retired after 3 years.
Horizons - cancelled after 15 levels.
World of Warcraft - active since Euro-launch