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Brudal
Member Posts: 1
Hi all,
my greatest concern is the PVP system in the game.
If i beg you for 1 thing, then it is to keep the pvp system as plain and straight as possible.
Dont mess with complex Formulars like Blizzard/WoW. Dont try to invent crazy and absurde Minigames like CTF or anything instanced.
Develope a normal Ranking system like Daoc for example. Low ranks are able to get the basic but most important features. Specialisation is left for Powergamers.
Make the starting zones PVP safe (No PVP at all or foreigners may only defend themself) and integrate PVP to the upper- and endlevel Areas. The only important things are: It should make sense for ppl to go there (Higher Exp for higher risk, better Drops, Crafter resources...) and there should be no place to lurk at players who are zoning, loading or porting in any way.
My experience shows that these Factors are the Basics of funny PVP. Everything else like Keepdefending, Flag capturing should be implemented as an option but not as a have to.
I hope people agree with me and you keep PVP in mind while developing heros Journey.
Sorry for my bad english, i hope you understant my intention.
Best regards, Brudal.
Comments
I think they should just have open PvP after say, level 5 or 10. PvP should be enforced by the player base, not by silly game mechanics or the game itself blocking PvP. Being able to be held responsible for your actions is essential to a healthy online environment and I hope they have wide open PvP with a stance on moderation and responsibility.
You can have PvP without featuring it as a game unto itself...leave it open as a consequence to your possible actions and players will tend to act a lot more respectful to other players. At least thats the way I see how it could be...open PvP tends to create a most realistic and responsible realm whem the players police themselves.
pvp can be very important to a game. It is, one thing, that can totally destroy a game if implemented incorrectly.
It's interesting, that no PVP is not always considered a limiting factor (yes, some people must have PVP but there are definitely a lot of people who don't want it or don't care), but badly implemented PVP is always a limiting factor.
My hope, (has it been said that there is PvP in this game?), is that if there is PvP that it is done in a way that does not encourage random destruction. One thing that annoys players and can destroy a community is when you can lose everything you've worked for by dying in PvP. I can recall in Lineage many players who were slaughtered in PvP, lost their main weapon and basically were screwed in the game and quit. I would hate to see that type of thing in any other game again as it can really ruin the experience.
I was really hoping to find something in the HJ documents that would tell us more about what you have in mind for HJ PvP.
I read that there was supposed to be grouping. I really hope that extends to group-based PvP and not just in instanced areas. Cordoning off areas where there is no PvP is fine, particularly at low levels. But PvP zones, particularly group based ones make the end game far more fun that just more of the same killing of mobs over and over and over and over and over again. It's the reason I stopped playing Gemstone3, and never leveled after I reached Legendary. The element of surprise and variety in the endgame really helps to keep people involved in the game long after they have reached the max level.
My concerns for PvP are summed up in one word...griefing. In any PvP situation there will always be the adolescent (not necessarily in chronological age, but always maturity) who will grief other players. Always. The best PvP I have seen in any game was in DAoC. There were certain zones for side vs side PvP and there was no looting the fallen and no experince debt/loss. PvP in DAoC was a win-win...you never lost anything but a little time and you had something to gain. If you didn't go into the zones that were PvP, you could still play the game and have fun.
As for noting who are the griefers...something of a reputation system could be implemented for PvP...kill your own (ala, griefing/ganking) would give you a negative reputation point for every person within a certain radius. These would be witnesses to the crime. Ganking a solo character (no witnesses) would give a greater hit to reputation so everyone could know who the muderers were. Groups of gankers would get a reputation hit from their friends, as well as their prey. After so much bad publicity, the ganker in question would have a bounty placed on their head and would be KOS to all guards, militia, wandering NPCs...everyone. This would also keep the anti-gankers from ganking the gankers as they, too, would get the reputation hit. Murdering a murderer is still murder.
A combination of these might just keep PvP interesting and under control.
...If a bounty is placed on a ganker's head, why would an anti-ganker lose reputation from killing that ganker? It makes no sense, unless the bounty says "WANTED: ALIVE".
I don't see the logic. Or I read what you said wrong.
The logic is fine...your understanding is not. The individual that does the bounty killing would still get the kill reputation hit. This would keep the bounty hunting groups that like like to gank in the name of killing gankers, a la UO, from being formed. Apply the law evenly to everyone. Make it so that once the bounty is completed that part of the reward is a reputation gain equal to that lost by killing the ganker plus one point.
Though I like the Wanted: Alive! type bounty.
Oh, so you are saying you actually have to complete the quest and get rid of the bounty, rather than *just* ganking the gankers, so you don't abuse the system? That works.
Dunno, I always liked the anti-ganker groups/guilds, they helped keep gankers in line more than anything, and provided a defense to the poor solo players or lowbies.
<<Dunno, I always liked the anti-ganker groups/guilds, they helped keep gankers in line more than anything, and provided a defense to the poor solo players or lowbies.>>
In my years of playing UO, I found that these groups typically turned, that is while they started with the best intentions, they typically devolved into ganking groups, feared throughout the land.
Its ganking in WoW when you repeatedly kill the person after they resurrect. Kill once, fine. Move on. Kill twice, harassment.
~~ FGM Razu ~~
~Hero's Journey~
My personal opinion on pvp is that people get too wound up about online ganking fools. It happens, boys will be boys and well...(gotta be PC) girls will be girls. It seems that there are serious risks in this game if you are a ganker and just want to run wild slaying everything in sight... you wont last. After having played Lineage II for far too long (and now taken a permanent break from it) what annoyed me the most was that if a clan was annoying you, you couldn't wage a legal war on them without them accepting it. This seems crazy. If people are gonna be jerks you shouldnt have to ask... "Hey, you and me? how bout it?" You should just get on the case and kick some ass. But if you did, you were mor e likely to turn red, get hunted down by the rest of the slain person's clan and then more often than not, you drop your weapon which has taken you about three weeks to build (Unless you are a sodding ebayer!). I would like to know all about the pvp in this game, cos its pvp that can make or break a title. Apart from that this game looks like the most sound, beautiful and most importantly... interactive game ever! ROCK ON.
A
The HJ staff are also players of other games -- in other words, we feel your pain!
For myself, there are three important factors for PvP: it must recognize that I am intelligent, it must allow me to opt-in (or opt-out) from time to time, it must be enjoyable not because I always win but because there's always a chance that I can win...even if I don't have a stash of that elixir of strength in my backpack.
Everyone is right; PvP systems can make or break a title. It's going to be handled very carefully in HJ because many of the development staff are keenly aware of what makes it succeed and fail in every other title out there. Ganking and griefing are not our favorite things, neither are badly scripted TeF functions, or the use of so many systems put into place to combat griefing that PvP becomes clunky.
When I go into games I am studying PvP systems, hearing what players like or don't like about them, and taking notes. Many of our staffers do the same thing. While we're not at liberty to discuss aspects of our design because we really don't need to be giving our competition any ideas <g>, it helps to hear more from gamers about the things that bother them now. PvP in the millennium is different than it was twelve years ago...and this is because of experience and attitude more than anything.
The opinions you express here are taken into consideration as we work on the system. I encourage you to let fly with your hopes and hates to help us deliver the ultimate system. This forum isn't one-way...we read what you have to say and we want to read more!
double posted
Grr, I swear these forums are possessed by satan.
Jesus, I hate cold fusion systems.
I have to say that this post really releaves some fears I was having from the discussion over in the general forums (Questions for the off-site GM) thread. Seems like many people want FFA PvP and That worries me. Why? Glad you asked.
In my previous experience as a MMO addict. One thing I've noticed is FFA PVP or systems that are even relatively close, that the rest of the game goes right out the window. Everything is geared towards killing soandso or a group of soandso's. Any story/lore that the Devs made up are either lost or co-opted to justify it. Although several games have used the conflict between races/realms as a connection point. It always seems somehow contrived.
As you can tell I'm a Non-PvPer (I HATE the term carebear)and proud of it. I like to enjoy the game for what the devs put down on the design docs and implimented. Not having to worry about some person coming up and murdering me while I'm making a <insert craftable item here> for a friend or chatting with people.
It seems the HJ Devs actually do play games and that's really refreshing. It also gives me hope that on some level you guys and gals realize that depending on players to police anything is not a good course of action to pursue for a PvP system because, from my point of view, I've never seen it work.
If you'd like examples I'd be happy to give them.
Players in these systems tend to exploit. For every person who doesn't or will not exploit a system there are 40 who will.
hehe I'm such a PvP pessimist aren't I? Can you tell I've had some bad experiences?
In my opinoin I belive systems like the one WoW put in were great. There were certain territories you could go in that were under a certain influence. You were always open to get ganked, which made hunting actually a scare factor. However, the one thing WoW did wrong was that you couldn't 'take over' the territories. They should be able to be swayed one faction to another.
However, systems like BG were awsome! I loved CTF, and resource control. I thought it was one of the funner things with WoW. From what I've seen, people who dislike PvP usually don't like it becuase they are always on the lower end of the stick. Figure out a way to make sure people can't get harassed constantly, and it'll be fine.
Next.I like FFA PvP and aproach to PvP system can have many variates.Just look WoW,EQ2,Lineage and mix it and make something really nice that all PvP players will like.
I agree that I dont like when I dont know who my enemy is.Thats really not good and could ruin everything.
Dont bother that hi lvl player will gank low lvl player couse thats i easyly fix with thing like antihonor.Kill i dont know like 5 lvl below you and you will get dishonor.Belive me NOONE with higher lvl will gank you than.I like danger and if there wont be ffa pvp hmmm i hope than you will make damn good job with pvp.
I also like the instance for massive and groups fights.Also rewards for it couse you cant kill so many players in so little time like in instanced arena for PvP.And many players for PvP will be there and for other things will be in epic instances.They wont just walk around and gank.Some probably will but than you have your m8 to help you if he really gank you.But that can be fix also.Lets see.He kill you once and get honor.If he kill you again in next 10 min he will get 50% less.In next 15 min he kill he will get no honor.So the ganking doesnt make sense any more.I dont mind to die 2 times in a row.Only if i need to make 10 min to the same spot than it will be a problem.But just make graveyards in strategic places and your there in no time
In open world when you kill enemy it would be nice that he drop coins.But only coins he got with him at the moment.Not all of it but some random %.Never an item.I repeat,NEVER an item from bags or what you wear.That will ruin game before it start shipping.
Take the Hecatomb TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
Okay, here are my thoughts.
Open PvP fine, but make it on its own server
Zoned PvP, fine again - as long as you can avoid or go around it
No PvP, you'll exclude some players - not a good move.
My general thoughts are that as longs as there is some sort of enforcable justice system then it'll be okay - just avoid anarchy - I think that if a group of people want to play bandits then thats great and adds alot to the game, however ensure that they are punished if caught, and that being caught is a real risk to them.
Should that not be possible then make PvP optional and allow the player to opt out for those times when they just need to get on with something.
Also remember that people will exploit, its human nature - in fact its just plain nature - path of least resistance... For this reason thoughts on griefing should not be confined to PvP, griefing has many faces including kill stealing (and and for gods sake please do not put in systems where either last hit wins or overall damage - both invite exploits [dagger combat or higher levels farming]), bad mouthing etc....
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW