ITT: If a game has a cash shop with one single item in it, a plum-colored dye for your equipment that every mob in the world drops with a 50% drop rate...
...that wouldn't matter because the game has a cash shop with a P2P financing model omg
Because to hell with context amirite?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Ffxiv has an extensive cash shop, disgusting when a company double dips. Either have a sub and give everything for that sub or go f2p. An extensive cash shop in a p2p is extreme greed and should not be accepted at all. They in essence sell currency ffs.
For the topic at hand, I dont care about the payment model since m i pay the same amount monthly either way.
Only Free to Play game I am playing is Trove, so far the model is decent & it's a nice change from other mmo's. I pop into Marvel Heroes once in awhile as well. I have played other F2P mmo's such as Neverwinter, ArcheAge etc. and I do not like their Cash Shops.
Final Fantasy XIV is my primary mmo since the game launched. I pay a small monthly sub and get a ton of content in frequent patches & now an new expansion coming in June that has more content than what FFXIV originally launched with. I still have a bunch of stuff to do before the expansion launches as well, so no reason to play anything else.
Streaming MMORPG, RPG & Strategy games: . Part of the mmorpg.com Twitch team MMOFTW.
Originally posted by scorpex-x Ffxiv has an extensive cash shop, disgusting when a company double dips. Either have a sub and give everything for that sub or go f2p. An extensive cash shop in a p2p is extreme greed and should not be accepted at all. They in essence sell currency ffs.
For the topic at hand, I dont care about the payment model since m i pay the same amount monthly either way.
In FFXIV's case, their Cash Shop is fine. The items they sell are cheap & there is no "I need this" item there. As the devs have said at a Fan Fest that due to the Cash Shop they are able to put it back into the game, for example it helped them fund a datacenter for the EU players. If you actually played the game then you would see the result of having their Cash Shop and Sub.
Times have changed, the cost of development & living has gone up since the old days of Everquest & back when WoW launched. They need to have this type of model to sustain the development team. Either a sub base game completely changes their sub model to a Buy to Play/Free to Play, which means focus shifts to their Cash Shop more so than actual content. Another alternative is to raise the sub amount, which wouldn't fly too well & now puts more pressure on the devs to show that the new increase is justified by adding even more content. Final change is stay as a Sub model and add a Cash Shop, but have items that are not needed for any kind of gameplay. Compare FFXIV's shop to WoW and you notice how much cheaper FFXIV is to WoW.
Also, unlike mmo's like WoW, FFXIV's sub price is cheaper if you want just one character per server. Or if you're a Legacy player, meaning you stay subbed during 1.0, you only pay $9.99 a month.
Streaming MMORPG, RPG & Strategy games: . Part of the mmorpg.com Twitch team MMOFTW.
Originally posted by scorpex-x Ffxiv has an extensive cash shop, disgusting when a company double dips. Either have a sub and give everything for that sub or go f2p. An extensive cash shop in a p2p is extreme greed and should not be accepted at all. They in essence sell currency ffs.
For the topic at hand, I dont care about the payment model since m i pay the same amount monthly either way.
The only even remotely questionable item in FFXIV's cash shop is the unique mount that offers only vanity benefits. The rest of the items are either completely innocent (selling dumb seasonal items not available anymore in-game plus a few ugly dyes), completely optional separate services (name change, server change, changing your appearance) or services where the extra revenue has gone to really flesh out the feature above and beyond what could be reasonably expected of the devs (wedding service with all the bells & whistles).
Just because a game is P2P doesn't mean the devs are expected to give out every feature and service anyone could ever think of for the sub. The world is not black and white and as such there is indeed a line where the company is offering enough value for the sub fee to justify a modest cash shop. At the moment FFXIV is firmly stuck far below the line of unreasonable for the vast majority of people.
It's not like the haters don't know this, as the result they always ignore the context and imply FFXIV's cash shop and some P2W games cash shops are the same thing. It's the only way their argument could ever have weight.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by scorpex-x Ffxiv has an extensive cash shop, disgusting when a company double dips. Either have a sub and give everything for that sub or go f2p. An extensive cash shop in a p2p is extreme greed and should not be accepted at all. They in essence sell currency ffs.
For the topic at hand, I dont care about the payment model since m i pay the same amount monthly either way.
The only even remotely questionable item in FFXIV's cash shop is the unique mount that offers only vanity benefits. The rest of the items are either completely innocent (selling dumb seasonal items not available anymore in-game plus a few ugly dyes), completely optional separate services (name change, server change, changing your appearance) or services where the extra revenue has gone to really flesh out the feature above and beyond what could be reasonably expected of the devs (wedding service with all the bells & whistles).
Just because a game is P2P doesn't mean the devs are expected to give out every feature and service anyone could ever think of for the sub. The world is not black and white and as such there is indeed a line where the company is offering enough value for the sub fee to justify a modest cash shop. At the moment FFXIV is firmly stuck far below the line of unreasonable for the vast majority of people.
It's not like the haters don't know this, as the result they always ignore the context and imply FFXIV's cash shop and some P2W games cash shops are the same thing. It's the only way their argument could ever have weight.
The matrimony rings are often sold in-game for gil, the devs even threatened to remove it if players didn't stop talking about it on the forum (but they didn't). Basically a player pays real money for a cash shop items and then sells it in-game for upto 10 million gil.
They basically sell gil on the cash shop. Sorry but that's scummy and borderline p2w.
Originally posted by scorpex-x Ffxiv has an extensive cash shop, disgusting when a company double dips. Either have a sub and give everything for that sub or go f2p. An extensive cash shop in a p2p is extreme greed and should not be accepted at all. They in essence sell currency ffs.
For the topic at hand, I dont care about the payment model since m i pay the same amount monthly either way.
The only even remotely questionable item in FFXIV's cash shop is the unique mount that offers only vanity benefits. The rest of the items are either completely innocent (selling dumb seasonal items not available anymore in-game plus a few ugly dyes), completely optional separate services (name change, server change, changing your appearance) or services where the extra revenue has gone to really flesh out the feature above and beyond what could be reasonably expected of the devs (wedding service with all the bells & whistles).
Just because a game is P2P doesn't mean the devs are expected to give out every feature and service anyone could ever think of for the sub. The world is not black and white and as such there is indeed a line where the company is offering enough value for the sub fee to justify a modest cash shop. At the moment FFXIV is firmly stuck far below the line of unreasonable for the vast majority of people.
It's not like the haters don't know this, as the result they always ignore the context and imply FFXIV's cash shop and some P2W games cash shops are the same thing. It's the only way their argument could ever have weight.
The matrimony rings are often sold in-game for gil, the devs even threatened to remove it if players didn't stop talking about it on the forum (but they didn't). Basically a player pays real money for a cash shop items and then sells it in-game for upto 10 million gil.
They basically sell gil on the cash shop. Sorry but that's scummy and borderline p2w.
Your laughable scorp. P2W? Really, Holiday stuff and ways to rename your character, change their looks, or color or armor is P2W? You are stupid period. There is no gear with a single stat on the gear. O and BTW when you buy an Item in FFXIV's Cash shop its UNTRADABLE, my wife has one she CAN NOT TRADE OR SELL THE ITEM. So how the fuck is that selling an in game item up to 10 Million GIL. Basically you are flapping your gums on something you do not have a clue about. O BTW here is the ring. http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Chocobo_Egg_Ring Your post is nothing but a load of shit.
Look at the link I posted, players sell the matrimony rings for 10-16 million gil, the moderators threatened to remove it if people didn't stop talking about it on the forums but you can still do it today. It takes months to make that much currency by farming normally, but if you bring out your credit card you can get it almost instantly from the cash shop.
So buying game currency is not pay to win or an issue? Guess the RMT were doing nothing wrong all this time? In a f2p game I can accept them selling currency, not in a p2p one though.
Yes, yes I know fanboys will defend anything if it's in their game but if this was on any other game you would call it for what it is. Pay to win and RMT.
Buying game currency from the cash shop when so many things are linked to that currency is pay to win.
Look at the link I posted, players sell the matrimony rings for 10-16 million gil, the moderators threatened to remove it if people didn't stop talking about it on the forums but you can still do it today. It takes months to make that much currency by farming normally, but if you bring out your credit card you can get it almost instantly from the cash shop.
Buying game currency from the cash shop when so many things are linked to that currency is pay to win.
Yet somehow according to you anyone can find someone to pay their hard-earned 16 million gil for a few bucks' worth of in-game items that are incredibly fringe demand-wise in the first place.
Either way, you're not going to "win" anything with a thousand million gil because gil can't buy you strength. In other words you have completely twisted the concept of P2W to fit your silly agenda. Gil is of no importance in this game unless you think having an expensive Crystal Tower furniture in your house constitutes "winning". In which case there are not enough lolz in this world in response to that statement.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
No, not really, but then I don't find most MMORPGs to be worth playing so I can't really point to the payment model as a reason to play or not play.
The only MMORPG's I've ever enjoyed for more than 2-3 months have been P2P (and it's a short list) and currently am paying for multiple long term accounts on EVE.
But to the OP, what is your purpose for creating this thread, you beat this drum repeatedly, even telling us in many posts how many years/days/months/seconds its been since paid for a game.
Come to think of it, I've responded multiple times with my same answer. We're caught in a ground hog day scenario.
Its abundantly clear that the OP has an ulterior motive. To promote the F2P model to keep his money in his pockets. And I don't blame him if not spending a penny is his only priority. Personally, I don't mind spending a few bucks to support a quality product and unfortunately F2P games do not rise to that standard. If nothing else but for the toxic communities they invite and breed. These people are annoying to the max and tend to suck the fun out of every game they lay their hands on.
How you go into these games plays a big part in the value you will get out of them for free. Competitive or highly social players are most likely not going to find playing these games completely free without spending money appealing at which point it becomes a question about if you are going to participate in the cash shop are you better off with the F2P buy the game a piece at a time model or the Subscription based pay once and be done model.
Really people who don't spend money in this industry probably don't have much value to contribute to a discussion about the pro's and con's of it's monetization models. People like the OP are not so much MMO gamers as tourists dropping in and out from time to time just staying long enough to not have to deal with the ramifications of these business models that have been setup to try and capture their money.
Originally posted by Gestankfaust Nope...and never have. F2P has always been the sub par pay model...always will be to me.
I don't know... if P2P offered much better quality, then it would've survived, but it didn't because it offered sub-par quality. There's a reason why the P2P model is going extinct. People didn't feel their $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The only exceptions are WoW and FFXIV.. but even those aren't "pure" P2P models, since they both have cash shops. I guess EvE can be thrown in that list too, but it's more of a niche game than a mainstream MMO.
C'mon man. You, I, and the whole world know the real reason why the P2P model is going extinct and it has nothing to do with sub-par quality or whether or not $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The predominant reason why P2P is not as popular as F2P is because F2p is FREE! and the vast majority of people are either cheap or kids who cannot afford the $15 a month. This along with the fact that there are gobs of games on the market nowadays and the vast majority of gamers are wanton to try and play, or better yet tolerate, these lousy games for free rather than be subjected to a payment method to play all of them. Let's at least try and be a little honest here.
A good F2P game is the one that makes you grind for hours and hours, for items you dont even need to have, but you would love to earn them. Like cards
Some of the best MMO i have played have monster cards. Every monster can drop a card with 0.001% chance with original art and funny jokes on it.
I mean literaly, you can just get a group and grind bosses and monsters for those cards all day long.
That's a matter of opinion Xxerox. Personally collecting cards doesn't sound appealing to me at all. I mean what do those do besides sit in your inventory? Now if you could collect those cards to then at some point turn them in for a rare cosmetic item, now that would be worth the grind.
I have not found one F2P MMO that I have enjoyed playing and stayed in the game longer than 4-6 months. Any MMO I have enjoyed over the years have all been either B2P or P2P.
Originally posted by Gestankfaust Nope...and never have. F2P has always been the sub par pay model...always will be to me.
I don't know... if P2P offered much better quality, then it would've survived, but it didn't because it offered sub-par quality. There's a reason why the P2P model is going extinct. People didn't feel their $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The only exceptions are WoW and FFXIV.. but even those aren't "pure" P2P models, since they both have cash shops. I guess EvE can be thrown in that list too, but it's more of a niche game than a mainstream MMO.
C'mon man. You, I, and the whole world know the real reason why the P2P model is going extinct and it has nothing to do with sub-par quality or whether or not $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The predominant reason why P2P is not as popular as F2P is because F2p is FREE! and the vast majority of people are either cheap or kids who cannot afford the $15 a month. This along with the fact that there are gobs of games on the market nowadays and the vast majority of gamers are wanton to try and play, or better yet tolerate, these lousy games for free rather than be subjected to a payment method to play all of them. Let's at least try and be a little honest here.
I think a shorter, less insulting and therefore better(IMO) answer is that those games are more accessible to try for a longer duration, and they don't compel you to play to "get your money's worth". I like that I can spend money in Neverwinter for various things, but can spend maybe a total of 30 minutes of in game time in there for the next 3-4 months, and not have it cost me a dime... while everything I bought is still there and ready to use. Same thing with Marvel Heroes.
That's a main feature level asset to me. That means that if I spend $45 in Neverwinter, I can use it to buy stuff like inventory bags or bank space and it will still be there when I come back to the game in 3 months.
If I spend $45 in a P2P game, I get to log in for 3 months, whether I actually do or not. And I have yet to find a game where inventory space doesn't become a problem at some point, so having a little more space for "free" in the beginning is a short term boon when I'm paying $15 a month forever.
I'm not saying sub models are bad or should be extinct; we all play differently and for some people(and some games!) P2P works better. I still sub to LotRO, even though I have almost all the content as F2P(through pre-order bonuses), because it's a game I play regularly and I don't want to have to worry about any unexpected limitations the F2P model might bring.
Of all the models, F2P, P2P, B2P, I think having a choice is best.
I grew tired of monthly fee for crap content lately I have been enjoying more B2P and F2P games these last few years.
I only started playing ESO recently because they removed the monthly fee and it's a great game so far. The only F2P game I play is Rift cuz it's no p2w but I like to support Trion and pay for the patron buffs.
I always considered WoW the only game worth a sub fee until pandaland. I am not aware of a lot of great F2P games that interest me but B2P for sure.
Originally posted by Gestankfaust Nope...and never have. F2P has always been the sub par pay model...always will be to me.
I don't know... if P2P offered much better quality, then it would've survived, but it didn't because it offered sub-par quality. There's a reason why the P2P model is going extinct. People didn't feel their $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The only exceptions are WoW and FFXIV.. but even those aren't "pure" P2P models, since they both have cash shops. I guess EvE can be thrown in that list too, but it's more of a niche game than a mainstream MMO.
C'mon man. You, I, and the whole world know the real reason why the P2P model is going extinct and it has nothing to do with sub-par quality or whether or not $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The predominant reason why P2P is not as popular as F2P is because F2p is FREE! and the vast majority of people are either cheap or kids who cannot afford the $15 a month. This along with the fact that there are gobs of games on the market nowadays and the vast majority of gamers are wanton to try and play, or better yet tolerate, these lousy games for free rather than be subjected to a payment method to play all of them. Let's at least try and be a little honest here.
You can't seriously believe that. If that were true, people would have flocked to asian MMO's before f2p hit the western market and became mainstream. People didn't though, because the gameplay was terrible.
People are willing to pay monthly, but they are tired of being burned out on the B2P model, and it's crappy quality with rehashed themepark, quest-hub centric gameplay, among other things.
F2P doesn't automatically mean millions of players. Just look at Aion, Rift, Tera, AoC, Lotro, Swtor, etc...
They switched to f2p for a reason, and are still struggling for players.
Look at the link I posted, players sell the matrimony rings for 10-16 million gil, the moderators threatened to remove it if people didn't stop talking about it on the forums but you can still do it today. It takes months to make that much currency by farming normally, but if you bring out your credit card you can get it almost instantly from the cash shop.
Buying game currency from the cash shop when so many things are linked to that currency is pay to win.
Yet somehow according to you anyone can find someone to pay their hard-earned 16 million gil for a few bucks' worth of in-game items that are incredibly fringe demand-wise in the first place.
Either way, you're not going to "win" anything with a thousand million gil because gil can't buy you strength. In other words you have completely twisted the concept of P2W to fit your silly agenda. Gil is of no importance in this game unless you think having an expensive Crystal Tower furniture in your house constitutes "winning". In which case there are not enough lolz in this world in response to that statement.
How to get all the "best gear" in the game.
Buy 4 matrimony rings from the cash shop.
Sell them in the game for 10-16 million gil x4.
Pay a group of mercs to get you the win and drops on whatever you want.
You just won (inb4 having the best gear isn't winning).
Originally posted by Gestankfaust Nope...and never have. F2P has always been the sub par pay model...always will be to me.
I don't know... if P2P offered much better quality, then it would've survived, but it didn't because it offered sub-par quality. There's a reason why the P2P model is going extinct. People didn't feel their $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The only exceptions are WoW and FFXIV.. but even those aren't "pure" P2P models, since they both have cash shops. I guess EvE can be thrown in that list too, but it's more of a niche game than a mainstream MMO.
C'mon man. You, I, and the whole world know the real reason why the P2P model is going extinct and it has nothing to do with sub-par quality or whether or not $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The predominant reason why P2P is not as popular as F2P is because F2p is FREE! and the vast majority of people are either cheap or kids who cannot afford the $15 a month. This along with the fact that there are gobs of games on the market nowadays and the vast majority of gamers are wanton to try and play, or better yet tolerate, these lousy games for free rather than be subjected to a payment method to play all of them. Let's at least try and be a little honest here.
You can't seriously believe that. If that were true, people would have flocked to asian MMO's before f2p hit the western market and became mainstream. People didn't though, because the gameplay was terrible.
People are willing to pay monthly, but they are tired of being burned out on the B2P model, and it's crappy quality with rehashed themepark, quest-hub centric gameplay, among other things.
F2P doesn't automatically mean millions of players. Just look at Aion, Rift, Tera, AoC, Lotro, Swtor, etc...
They switched to f2p for a reason, and are still struggling for players.
Rift pretty sure not struggling at all for players, is never be that millions player mmo due many other problem just in mmo in general out there. And pretty sure other are doing fine, the ones didn't do so hot was the P2P last year, other then the one been in place befor.
Look at arche age and wildstar, still have more people after that mess with arche age, and wildstar a P2P didn't keep up even after it's mess. But I am not saying wildstar need more people to be better then arche age, but they need to kick off this year or they be cutting more there team with the amount funds that wildstar is getting just can't keep up with that type of update there still throwing at people.
Look at the link I posted, players sell the matrimony rings for 10-16 million gil, the moderators threatened to remove it if people didn't stop talking about it on the forums but you can still do it today. It takes months to make that much currency by farming normally, but if you bring out your credit card you can get it almost instantly from the cash shop.
Buying game currency from the cash shop when so many things are linked to that currency is pay to win.
Yet somehow according to you anyone can find someone to pay their hard-earned 16 million gil for a few bucks' worth of in-game items that are incredibly fringe demand-wise in the first place.
Either way, you're not going to "win" anything with a thousand million gil because gil can't buy you strength. In other words you have completely twisted the concept of P2W to fit your silly agenda. Gil is of no importance in this game unless you think having an expensive Crystal Tower furniture in your house constitutes "winning". In which case there are not enough lolz in this world in response to that statement.
How to get all the "best gear" in the game.
Buy 4 matrimony rings from the cash shop.
Sell them in the game for 10-16 million gil x4.
Pay a group of mercs to get you the win and drops on whatever you want.
You just won (inb4 having the best gear isn't winning).
Wow, you seem a whole lot denser than usual....
Again, who is buying these rings? A magical gil fairy that doesn't care about it taking months to farm this currency (in your own words)? 10-16 million gil x4 just somehow finds it's way to your purse by the power of anti-FFXIV agenda? How truly extraordinary.
"Yes, Hyanmen. Here's a half a year old thread on the official forum where people bitch about miqo'te butts and grass textures among other important topics as a proof of that for the third time."
Then, assuming this miraculous rings-to-gil exchange actually takes place four times, the player can then pay for the mercs (once such service even becomes available, so maybe 2-3 months from the release of the raids at best) and thus receive a small chance at obtaining the items he needs once a week for X number of weeks of grinding the raids, all the while paying for the mercs regardless of actual results. Maybe the individual will finally "win", two weeks after the next raid has been released that is.
Well, he can buy the clears and cutscenes, that's for sure. Yet I can simply go to youtube to become such a privileged person too.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
ITT: If a game has a cash shop with one single item in it, a plum-colored dye for your equipment that every mob in the world drops with a 50% drop rate...
...that wouldn't matter because the game has a cash shop with a P2P financing model omg
Because to hell with context amirite?
For the topic at hand, I dont care about the payment model since m i pay the same amount monthly either way.
Only Free to Play game I am playing is Trove, so far the model is decent & it's a nice change from other mmo's. I pop into Marvel Heroes once in awhile as well. I have played other F2P mmo's such as Neverwinter, ArcheAge etc. and I do not like their Cash Shops.
Final Fantasy XIV is my primary mmo since the game launched. I pay a small monthly sub and get a ton of content in frequent patches & now an new expansion coming in June that has more content than what FFXIV originally launched with. I still have a bunch of stuff to do before the expansion launches as well, so no reason to play anything else.
Streaming MMORPG, RPG & Strategy games: . Part of the mmorpg.com Twitch team MMOFTW.
In FFXIV's case, their Cash Shop is fine. The items they sell are cheap & there is no "I need this" item there. As the devs have said at a Fan Fest that due to the Cash Shop they are able to put it back into the game, for example it helped them fund a datacenter for the EU players. If you actually played the game then you would see the result of having their Cash Shop and Sub.
Times have changed, the cost of development & living has gone up since the old days of Everquest & back when WoW launched. They need to have this type of model to sustain the development team. Either a sub base game completely changes their sub model to a Buy to Play/Free to Play, which means focus shifts to their Cash Shop more so than actual content. Another alternative is to raise the sub amount, which wouldn't fly too well & now puts more pressure on the devs to show that the new increase is justified by adding even more content. Final change is stay as a Sub model and add a Cash Shop, but have items that are not needed for any kind of gameplay. Compare FFXIV's shop to WoW and you notice how much cheaper FFXIV is to WoW.
Also, unlike mmo's like WoW, FFXIV's sub price is cheaper if you want just one character per server. Or if you're a Legacy player, meaning you stay subbed during 1.0, you only pay $9.99 a month.
Streaming MMORPG, RPG & Strategy games: . Part of the mmorpg.com Twitch team MMOFTW.
The only even remotely questionable item in FFXIV's cash shop is the unique mount that offers only vanity benefits. The rest of the items are either completely innocent (selling dumb seasonal items not available anymore in-game plus a few ugly dyes), completely optional separate services (name change, server change, changing your appearance) or services where the extra revenue has gone to really flesh out the feature above and beyond what could be reasonably expected of the devs (wedding service with all the bells & whistles).
Just because a game is P2P doesn't mean the devs are expected to give out every feature and service anyone could ever think of for the sub. The world is not black and white and as such there is indeed a line where the company is offering enough value for the sub fee to justify a modest cash shop. At the moment FFXIV is firmly stuck far below the line of unreasonable for the vast majority of people.
It's not like the haters don't know this, as the result they always ignore the context and imply FFXIV's cash shop and some P2W games cash shops are the same thing. It's the only way their argument could ever have weight.
The matrimony rings are often sold in-game for gil, the devs even threatened to remove it if players didn't stop talking about it on the forum (but they didn't). Basically a player pays real money for a cash shop items and then sells it in-game for upto 10 million gil.
They basically sell gil on the cash shop. Sorry but that's scummy and borderline p2w.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/208592-Cash-Shop-Where-do-you-draw-the-line
Square Enix have proved that they hate RMT, unless it's them making the money off it.
Your laughable scorp. P2W? Really, Holiday stuff and ways to rename your character, change their looks, or color or armor is P2W? You are stupid period. There is no gear with a single stat on the gear. O and BTW when you buy an Item in FFXIV's Cash shop its UNTRADABLE, my wife has one she CAN NOT TRADE OR SELL THE ITEM. So how the fuck is that selling an in game item up to 10 Million GIL. Basically you are flapping your gums on something you do not have a clue about. O BTW here is the ring. http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Chocobo_Egg_Ring Your post is nothing but a load of shit.
Look at the link I posted, players sell the matrimony rings for 10-16 million gil, the moderators threatened to remove it if people didn't stop talking about it on the forums but you can still do it today. It takes months to make that much currency by farming normally, but if you bring out your credit card you can get it almost instantly from the cash shop.
again: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/208592-Cash-Shop-Where-do-you-draw-the-line
So buying game currency is not pay to win or an issue? Guess the RMT were doing nothing wrong all this time? In a f2p game I can accept them selling currency, not in a p2p one though.
Yes, yes I know fanboys will defend anything if it's in their game but if this was on any other game you would call it for what it is. Pay to win and RMT.
Buying game currency from the cash shop when so many things are linked to that currency is pay to win.
Yet somehow according to you anyone can find someone to pay their hard-earned 16 million gil for a few bucks' worth of in-game items that are incredibly fringe demand-wise in the first place.
Either way, you're not going to "win" anything with a thousand million gil because gil can't buy you strength. In other words you have completely twisted the concept of P2W to fit your silly agenda. Gil is of no importance in this game unless you think having an expensive Crystal Tower furniture in your house constitutes "winning". In which case there are not enough lolz in this world in response to that statement.
Its abundantly clear that the OP has an ulterior motive. To promote the F2P model to keep his money in his pockets. And I don't blame him if not spending a penny is his only priority. Personally, I don't mind spending a few bucks to support a quality product and unfortunately F2P games do not rise to that standard. If nothing else but for the toxic communities they invite and breed. These people are annoying to the max and tend to suck the fun out of every game they lay their hands on.
How you go into these games plays a big part in the value you will get out of them for free. Competitive or highly social players are most likely not going to find playing these games completely free without spending money appealing at which point it becomes a question about if you are going to participate in the cash shop are you better off with the F2P buy the game a piece at a time model or the Subscription based pay once and be done model.
Really people who don't spend money in this industry probably don't have much value to contribute to a discussion about the pro's and con's of it's monetization models. People like the OP are not so much MMO gamers as tourists dropping in and out from time to time just staying long enough to not have to deal with the ramifications of these business models that have been setup to try and capture their money.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
C'mon man. You, I, and the whole world know the real reason why the P2P model is going extinct and it has nothing to do with sub-par quality or whether or not $15 a month was going towards a quality investment. The predominant reason why P2P is not as popular as F2P is because F2p is FREE! and the vast majority of people are either cheap or kids who cannot afford the $15 a month. This along with the fact that there are gobs of games on the market nowadays and the vast majority of gamers are wanton to try and play, or better yet tolerate, these lousy games for free rather than be subjected to a payment method to play all of them. Let's at least try and be a little honest here.
A good F2P game is the one that makes you grind for hours and hours, for items you dont even need to have, but you would love to earn them. Like cards
Some of the best MMO i have played have monster cards. Every monster can drop a card with 0.001% chance with original art and funny jokes on it.
I mean literaly, you can just get a group and grind bosses and monsters for those cards all day long.
That's a matter of opinion Xxerox. Personally collecting cards doesn't sound appealing to me at all. I mean what do those do besides sit in your inventory? Now if you could collect those cards to then at some point turn them in for a rare cosmetic item, now that would be worth the grind.
I think a shorter, less insulting and therefore better(IMO) answer is that those games are more accessible to try for a longer duration, and they don't compel you to play to "get your money's worth". I like that I can spend money in Neverwinter for various things, but can spend maybe a total of 30 minutes of in game time in there for the next 3-4 months, and not have it cost me a dime... while everything I bought is still there and ready to use. Same thing with Marvel Heroes.
That's a main feature level asset to me. That means that if I spend $45 in Neverwinter, I can use it to buy stuff like inventory bags or bank space and it will still be there when I come back to the game in 3 months.
If I spend $45 in a P2P game, I get to log in for 3 months, whether I actually do or not. And I have yet to find a game where inventory space doesn't become a problem at some point, so having a little more space for "free" in the beginning is a short term boon when I'm paying $15 a month forever.
I'm not saying sub models are bad or should be extinct; we all play differently and for some people(and some games!) P2P works better. I still sub to LotRO, even though I have almost all the content as F2P(through pre-order bonuses), because it's a game I play regularly and I don't want to have to worry about any unexpected limitations the F2P model might bring.
Of all the models, F2P, P2P, B2P, I think having a choice is best.
I grew tired of monthly fee for crap content lately I have been enjoying more B2P and F2P games these last few years.
I only started playing ESO recently because they removed the monthly fee and it's a great game so far. The only F2P game I play is Rift cuz it's no p2w but I like to support Trion and pay for the patron buffs.
I always considered WoW the only game worth a sub fee until pandaland. I am not aware of a lot of great F2P games that interest me but B2P for sure.
You can't seriously believe that. If that were true, people would have flocked to asian MMO's before f2p hit the western market and became mainstream. People didn't though, because the gameplay was terrible.
People are willing to pay monthly, but they are tired of being burned out on the B2P model, and it's crappy quality with rehashed themepark, quest-hub centric gameplay, among other things.
F2P doesn't automatically mean millions of players. Just look at Aion, Rift, Tera, AoC, Lotro, Swtor, etc...
They switched to f2p for a reason, and are still struggling for players.
How to get all the "best gear" in the game.
Buy 4 matrimony rings from the cash shop.
Sell them in the game for 10-16 million gil x4.
Pay a group of mercs to get you the win and drops on whatever you want.
You just won (inb4 having the best gear isn't winning).
Rift pretty sure not struggling at all for players, is never be that millions player mmo due many other problem just in mmo in general out there. And pretty sure other are doing fine, the ones didn't do so hot was the P2P last year, other then the one been in place befor.
Look at arche age and wildstar, still have more people after that mess with arche age, and wildstar a P2P didn't keep up even after it's mess. But I am not saying wildstar need more people to be better then arche age, but they need to kick off this year or they be cutting more there team with the amount funds that wildstar is getting just can't keep up with that type of update there still throwing at people.
Wow, you seem a whole lot denser than usual....
Again, who is buying these rings? A magical gil fairy that doesn't care about it taking months to farm this currency (in your own words)? 10-16 million gil x4 just somehow finds it's way to your purse by the power of anti-FFXIV agenda? How truly extraordinary.
"Yes, Hyanmen. Here's a half a year old thread on the official forum where people bitch about miqo'te butts and grass textures among other important topics as a proof of that for the third time."
Then, assuming this miraculous rings-to-gil exchange actually takes place four times, the player can then pay for the mercs (once such service even becomes available, so maybe 2-3 months from the release of the raids at best) and thus receive a small chance at obtaining the items he needs once a week for X number of weeks of grinding the raids, all the while paying for the mercs regardless of actual results. Maybe the individual will finally "win", two weeks after the next raid has been released that is.
Well, he can buy the clears and cutscenes, that's for sure. Yet I can simply go to youtube to become such a privileged person too.