All items the player has on him will drop. - 28.3%
Only unequipped items the player has on him will drop. - 5.7%
1-2 random / unequipped items will drop from the player's inventory. - 24.5%
I was in doubt between 1st and 4th option. I don't like full loot systems. I used to play Lineage II where in the past (really long ago) you'd had a chance of dropping one or 2 items upon any death (including PvP kill). I was 'lucky' enough to drop my EQUIPPED Salamander Fullplate +6 armor back then due to a PvE death (I also dropped other stuff on deaths, but smaller and less valuable). Really sucked but luckily one of my clan was nice enough to pick it up for me.
Now Lineage II only has a small chance of drop (or destroy if bound) when you have a high PK count. Personally I think that's very lame. A death should have some risk in it and you should be able to drop some stuff upon dying. Though I think the equipped weapon is a no-go (always has been for Lineage II as well...)
If I want a full-loot game I'd be playing one of those survival games like Minecraft...
Originally posted by Vorthanion Why do you guys never put the option for random loot tables to be applied to players as if they were npc's? That's what Warhammer Online did and it seemed to satisfy most players.
that was such and awesome system but it wont satisfied the grief er sorry the "hardcore PVPers" who want to not only play a game but make sure others that play are completely miserable around them.
I've always been a fan of at least the idea of looting non-equipped items. I don't recall if I ever played a game where this actually existed, but its always sounded good to me. Really it all depends on what sort of itemization the game has. If gear is easily replaced, full loot isn't a problem. If a players equipment consists of ultra rare crafted or dropped items full loot PvP becomes too griefy for most people.
I think looting your inventory is great because in most games players have currency, cash loots or resources which are generally obtained from contested content.
Just to add, I also think having ones inventory remain on their corpse upon death is a good death mechanic. Its reason enough for a player to want to return for their body, but without leaving them defenseless to retrieve their items.
Full loot gives the pvp more meaning, your risking all your stuff so its not just like a giant deathmatch. Even then, some people get bent out of shape because they think will lose their Might Sword of Epicness +8, when most of these games are crafting based, meaning you can have tons of different sets of gear stashed ready to re equip.
If your game would be grind loot based then inventory loot would work I guess.
Full loot games can be great if they're done correctly. The penalty has to match the reward. In Ultima Online I used to contract a Blacksmith to make me multiple suits of armor at a time. If I died, then I could simply open up another bag and equip another set of armor.
This also gave the Blacksmith a purpose in the game and a good way to make money. He never even fought people. He would just go mine ore, smelt them into ingots, and if anyone ever attacked him, he would just paralyze them and recall out. Good game mechanics make the difference. Unfortunately games are being designed poorly, and this is why they aren't successful. Not because it can't work.
Then again.. the MMO community these days is incredibly spoiled, and even more demanding. Because these basic mechanics don't serve the majority of players who can't handle dying to another player with any level of grace, then it is forced to be a 'niche' game. Personally, i'm fine with this. I've learned that the smaller the community, the more functional it is.
I think you should lose all items, and screw em permadeath too and then people should show up at the players house and beat the hell out of them and rob them. Then show up years later and kick the hell out of their kids and just keep doing this generation after generation until their verminous family line just gives up ever daring to play an mmo.
Yea, cuz you know what f people who play games who aren't gods of pvping... harsh penalties just aren't harsh enough! If you aren't going to punch my grandmother in the face every time my character gets hurt then I am just not interested.
Never half-ass anything. If you're going to design bad PVP (open world PVP), go all the way.
Yeah thats why we have so many successfully full loot pvp games on the market
QFT!
I also wonder how many people that are in favour of a full loot system, would not also complain if in game they were ganked and robbed on a regular basis
I play EVE Online since 2003, full loot pvp system, you win some, you lose some.
"Do not use what you can not afford to lose"
Stick to that rule and it does not sound so harsh anymore. In fact, it may open up a world beyond the hand holding games like WOW without any risk.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I think you should lose all items, and screw em permadeath too and then people should show up at the players house and beat the hell out of them and rob them. Then show up years later and kick the hell out of their kids and just keep doing this generation after generation until their verminous family line just gives up ever daring to play an mmo.
Yea, cuz you know what f people who play games who aren't gods of pvping... harsh penalties just aren't harsh enough! If you aren't going to punch my grandmother in the face every time my character gets hurt then I am just not interested.
Even though your post is absolutely ridiculous, i'll try to give you a rational answer. Completely disregarding your first paragraph - It is not required that you be a 'PvP God' to exist and have fun in a game with full loot PvP. It would be required if you wanted to be considered a well known solo PK'er, but let's be real. Very few will ever hold that title.
What you do is... wait for it.. *drum roll* - Make friends. Join a guild. Run with a friend or a group of people in case you get attacked by another player. You might still lose, but hey.. you also might win! And during this process, you might even learn and get better at this PvP thing. Who knows!?
How you loot means nothing without knowing how itemization is. If you have loot as difficult as Everquest then full loot will be too harsh and you'll have people walking around naked or with trash. If you have items that are not real hard to obtain that eventually wear down and break full loot isn't that bad.
Originally posted by nomotag Losing your equipment/loot when you die has never been appealing to me. I have played games like that and it's kind of bad on 3 fronts. There is the playing it safe aspect that means your always using the crappy stuff in case you lose it. Like I would own swords of super killing, but I wouldn't use them. Your not encouraged to take risks. Enemy 10 levels below me? All right lets get fighting. Dieing is basically a I quit moment. You just got stomped not all your cool stuff is gone you wasted the last 10 hours and your not getting them back.
well, it means your items have a value or ? isnt it kinda cool that you use the crappy everyday armor and have some special sets with real value.
And in a good full loot game you dont need 10 hours for a complete set but an hour for farming should give you 2-4 bags.
It also adds RISK to every activity and the devs can balance hotspots around it. Its beyond me how one can not like full loot as it adds so much levels of gameplay to a game. Combined with a local banking and item durability it is just awesome
Originally posted by Vorthanion Why do you guys never put the option for random loot tables to be applied to players as if they were npc's? That's what Warhammer Online did and it seemed to satisfy most players.
You really do have to give it to Warhammer Online for this. Brilliant system. Also they started the whole public quest thing. Shame about Warhammer. Oh well Total War: Warhammer looks fun
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
well, it means your items have a value or ? isnt it kinda cool that you use the crappy everyday armor and have some special sets with real value.
And in a good full loot game you dont need 10 hours for a complete set but an hour for farming should give you 2-4 bags.
It also adds RISK to every activity and the devs can balance hotspots around it. Its beyond me how one can not like full loot as it adds so much levels of gameplay to a game. Combined with a local banking and item durability it is just awesome
Well let shed some light on that:
Its mainly about the grind. Games with item decay and full loot have a lot of grind in them.
Not only that but the fact that the chance of losing anything makes people extremely risk averse. If they can help it, they will not risk anything. They will engage only if they are absolutely sure they can win. Which means 90% of the time, nothing happens. And the rest of the 10%... its going to be a one sided massacre.
Actual "good fights" are extremely rare. Its mostly just a cat 'n' mouse game. A lot of time waiting and shuffling to get an edge over your enemy. Not much action.
Its just boredom with a side of more boredom.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
It also adds RISK to every activity and the devs can balance hotspots around it. Its beyond me how one can not like full loot as it adds so much levels of gameplay to a game. Combined with a local banking and item durability it is just awesome
I guess you don't understand that people like different things?
levels of the "wrong" gameplay means nothing to me. I don't play a game to fight others and loot them (or let them loot me). If i want pvp, i go play e-sports. Don't tell me you don't know many like e-sports. You don't does not mean that other wouldn't/shouldn't.
If a developer makes one mmo like that,I will just observer it with great interest,because it could be one of the most interesting thing to watch how the community evolves.
And in a good full loot game you dont need 10 hours for a complete set but an hour for farming should give you 2-4 bags.
It also adds RISK to every activity and the devs can balance hotspots around it. Its beyond me how one can not like full loot as it adds so much levels of gameplay to a game. Combined with a local banking and item durability it is just awesome
Risk-based games usually tend to be shallower and easier. They tend to revolve around creating favorable conditions (gear advantage, pop advantage) and winning easy lopsided fights.
Other types of games have a greater opportunity to be deeper and harder. They tend to waste less time in grindy farming (they don't need to create vulnerable victims for PKing), and in both PVE and PVP they involve dramatically tougher decisions (because fights are more fair and balanced, which means that winning or losing is more reliant (in many genres entirely reliant) on player skill, not on the advantages accumulated before the fight.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Antiquated How about "All of the killer's loot drops"? Ganking Tax.
they actually did that in runescape. the person getting attacked would be able to keep 3 + 1 items(via a skill) and the attacker would get a skull and if they died while skulled they would only be able to save 1 item(via a skill). system worked really well until the company started adding in signifcantly more powerful rng drop items marginalizing out crafted gear.
I voted NO DROPS.Who wants to have gankers taking items you spent days acquiring ?
Just people who like to pk others
-ever been pk'd while crafting ? Yes
-ever been pk'd one step from entering your front door of your house ? Yes
-ever been pk'd when you are having a conversation with a close friend out in the middle of no where ? yes
-ever been pk'd by a group using an exploit ?yes
-ever been pk'd by enemies and "friends" working together to kill you ?yes
-ever have pk'rs break into your house and wait for you ? yes
-ever had pk'rs attack female characters....and.......................... ? No
All in all i wouldnt have it any other way, Surprisingly never seen the last one happen in a full loot pvp game. Most full loot games gear isnt hard to get so days aquiring it is an over exagguation.
All those random elements help bring people together and sometimes appart, it helps add excitments to a game with risk vs reward and that unfortuenlty new games dont have that thrill of the excitment of the unexpecting to get the adrenaline flowing.
Comments
yes.
No items drop from players. - 41.5%
All items the player has on him will drop. - 28.3%
Only unequipped items the player has on him will drop. - 5.7%
1-2 random / unequipped items will drop from the player's inventory. - 24.5%
that was such and awesome system but it wont satisfied the grief er sorry the "hardcore PVPers" who want to not only play a game but make sure others that play are completely miserable around them.
I've always been a fan of at least the idea of looting non-equipped items. I don't recall if I ever played a game where this actually existed, but its always sounded good to me. Really it all depends on what sort of itemization the game has. If gear is easily replaced, full loot isn't a problem. If a players equipment consists of ultra rare crafted or dropped items full loot PvP becomes too griefy for most people.
I think looting your inventory is great because in most games players have currency, cash loots or resources which are generally obtained from contested content.
Just to add, I also think having ones inventory remain on their corpse upon death is a good death mechanic. Its reason enough for a player to want to return for their body, but without leaving them defenseless to retrieve their items.
Full loot gives the pvp more meaning, your risking all your stuff so its not just like a giant deathmatch. Even then, some people get bent out of shape because they think will lose their Might Sword of Epicness +8, when most of these games are crafting based, meaning you can have tons of different sets of gear stashed ready to re equip.
If your game would be grind loot based then inventory loot would work I guess.
Not really when you have 20+ armour and weapon sets in bank as replacements.
Full loot games can be great if they're done correctly. The penalty has to match the reward. In Ultima Online I used to contract a Blacksmith to make me multiple suits of armor at a time. If I died, then I could simply open up another bag and equip another set of armor.
This also gave the Blacksmith a purpose in the game and a good way to make money. He never even fought people. He would just go mine ore, smelt them into ingots, and if anyone ever attacked him, he would just paralyze them and recall out. Good game mechanics make the difference. Unfortunately games are being designed poorly, and this is why they aren't successful. Not because it can't work.
Then again.. the MMO community these days is incredibly spoiled, and even more demanding. Because these basic mechanics don't serve the majority of players who can't handle dying to another player with any level of grace, then it is forced to be a 'niche' game. Personally, i'm fine with this. I've learned that the smaller the community, the more functional it is.
I think you should lose all items, and screw em permadeath too and then people should show up at the players house and beat the hell out of them and rob them. Then show up years later and kick the hell out of their kids and just keep doing this generation after generation until their verminous family line just gives up ever daring to play an mmo.
Yea, cuz you know what f people who play games who aren't gods of pvping... harsh penalties just aren't harsh enough! If you aren't going to punch my grandmother in the face every time my character gets hurt then I am just not interested.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
I play EVE Online since 2003, full loot pvp system, you win some, you lose some.
"Do not use what you can not afford to lose"
Stick to that rule and it does not sound so harsh anymore. In fact, it may open up a world beyond the hand holding games like WOW without any risk.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Even though your post is absolutely ridiculous, i'll try to give you a rational answer. Completely disregarding your first paragraph - It is not required that you be a 'PvP God' to exist and have fun in a game with full loot PvP. It would be required if you wanted to be considered a well known solo PK'er, but let's be real. Very few will ever hold that title.
What you do is... wait for it.. *drum roll* - Make friends. Join a guild. Run with a friend or a group of people in case you get attacked by another player. You might still lose, but hey.. you also might win! And during this process, you might even learn and get better at this PvP thing. Who knows!?
I'm personally a fan of 1-2 random items (unequipped) dropping from inventory.
I enjoy World PvP. However, I don't enjoy losing a weapon I finally earned by hardcore dragon raiding.
I find pure Theme Park games to be very boring, e.g., SWTOR, WoW, etc.
I find pure Sandbox games to be very boring, e.g., Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc.
I like Sandpark games: SWG'ish. ArcheAge had something going, but the P2W completely destroyed it.
I like MMOs to be more like games ... open world ffa pvp is just not fun for me.
well, it means your items have a value or ? isnt it kinda cool that you use the crappy everyday armor and have some special sets with real value.
And in a good full loot game you dont need 10 hours for a complete set but an hour for farming should give you 2-4 bags.
It also adds RISK to every activity and the devs can balance hotspots around it. Its beyond me how one can not like full loot as it adds so much levels of gameplay to a game. Combined with a local banking and item durability it is just awesome
You really do have to give it to Warhammer Online for this. Brilliant system. Also they started the whole public quest thing. Shame about Warhammer. Oh well Total War: Warhammer looks fun
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Well let shed some light on that:
Its mainly about the grind. Games with item decay and full loot have a lot of grind in them.
Not only that but the fact that the chance of losing anything makes people extremely risk averse. If they can help it, they will not risk anything. They will engage only if they are absolutely sure they can win. Which means 90% of the time, nothing happens. And the rest of the 10%... its going to be a one sided massacre.
Actual "good fights" are extremely rare. Its mostly just a cat 'n' mouse game. A lot of time waiting and shuffling to get an edge over your enemy. Not much action.
Its just boredom with a side of more boredom.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I guess you don't understand that people like different things?
levels of the "wrong" gameplay means nothing to me. I don't play a game to fight others and loot them (or let them loot me). If i want pvp, i go play e-sports. Don't tell me you don't know many like e-sports. You don't does not mean that other wouldn't/shouldn't.
Risk-based games usually tend to be shallower and easier. They tend to revolve around creating favorable conditions (gear advantage, pop advantage) and winning easy lopsided fights.
Other types of games have a greater opportunity to be deeper and harder. They tend to waste less time in grindy farming (they don't need to create vulnerable victims for PKing), and in both PVE and PVP they involve dramatically tougher decisions (because fights are more fair and balanced, which means that winning or losing is more reliant (in many genres entirely reliant) on player skill, not on the advantages accumulated before the fight.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
they actually did that in runescape. the person getting attacked would be able to keep 3 + 1 items(via a skill) and the attacker would get a skull and if they died while skulled they would only be able to save 1 item(via a skill). system worked really well until the company started adding in signifcantly more powerful rng drop items marginalizing out crafted gear.
All in all i wouldnt have it any other way, Surprisingly never seen the last one happen in a full loot pvp game. Most full loot games gear isnt hard to get so days aquiring it is an over exagguation.
All those random elements help bring people together and sometimes appart, it helps add excitments to a game with risk vs reward and that unfortuenlty new games dont have that thrill of the excitment of the unexpecting to get the adrenaline flowing.