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Pathfinder CEO complains that customers are not recruiting enough new players to his pay for Alpha/B
Slapshot1188
Member LegendaryPosts: 17,654
https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2562/?page=1
Wow. I just don't know what to say. This is is supposedly not released (although you have to buy it AND pay a sub which is laughable) but the CEO complains that people are not recruiting enough players?
He even goes so far as to state specifically what forums the folks should be posting on... and calling out one specific player that posted on here and asking others to come argue with him. Note that he didn't do it HERE but rather on his own forums that he totally controls.
Even if the game was released this would be sketchy.
All I can say is.... WOW.
Edit to add:
I think this snip from a post by a well establish Guild Leader sums it up perfectly:
Now how do we get new people? Perhaps I am part of the problem. I'm barely holding on myself, only persuading myself of the long term goals and potential. But I won't, can't sell this to my friends or gaming group, not with a $15 monthly kicker right now. And the amount of money isn't an issue, its the investment of money into something that isn't ready. And while you can put your head in the sand over whether the game is ready for not, the fact remains that I alone have 30 unique people who were playing the game, no longer playing the game. And it only took a month or two after EE started to convince them of that fact, the game just isn't there yet.
I think GW's expectations of how many people would want to play, grind, accept frustration and boredom was greatly exaggerated. They've tried to adjust from that realization and have done everything in my opinion except admit what everyone else knows.
Many of us tried to tell this to Ryan in advance. I even did so on these forums. Instead of listening, he argued and chose to listen to his small echo chamber. I think it's clear by this point that the concept of charging for "Early Enrollment" (both game purchase AND SUB) crossed the line with the vast majority of his customer base. The public's perception of what a Minimal Viable Product is has proven vastly different from Ryan's. Blaming the remaining customers for not recruiting enough is just beyond silly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
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P.S.I used i instead of I to make it more stylish!
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
Yeah thats not good at all and if you go to the post where he needed his soldiers to fight for him they actually did making new accounts. Or it was the CEO himself haha.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6638285/thread/430654#6638285
selling a product with a monthly subscription for a pre alpha game = criminal activity..
I wonder what this "company" is doing is even legal
He's making a game based on a model that's failed multiple times, and that was completely bulldozed by WoW back in the day. And to make matters worse, there's barely any product there to play ATM judging by what I've heard.
Yeah, that's going to turn out great for his company, and I imagine judging by the desperation he's already feeling the "success".
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
That being said, after the ArcheAge debacle I doubt you're going to find very many MMO players looking to buy into an alpha. Fool us once...
You are allowed to sell anything at any price as long as you tell people honestly what you're selling. It may be a rip-off, but it's completely legal as long as the seller gives enough info that the buyer understands what he is purchasing and what price he has to pay.
Going down this road the sub model is probably bad, unless it was very low, like 5 bucks a month.
F2P with a cash shop probably would be the way to go here until the game is more launch ready, then perhaps a monthly patron fee could be set up.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just peek back to this thread:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6553263
In Ryan'sown words:
We're pretty happy with our current rate of new player signups. We'll likely do a blog post with numbers in the future, but I can share that the number is not as small as "hundreds". And the number is growing every day so whatever the number is on any given day, it will be larger the next day. That's a very, very good sign.
Flash forward 90 days or so and suddenly the paying customers are not doing enough to recruit new players for him. LOL
I repeat something I often say: Listening to the few hardcore fans who shout down all the criticism is the surest path to failure a game developer can have...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I might think about playing it for more than 5 mins if they could figure out how to get their game to run at more than 30 FPS on a 3k gaming rig.
Until I myself can play it and enjoy it, how could I possibly ask someone else to try it.
I was going to check this out, but the fact that they wanted money right away before the game was even finished turned me off. And I don't mean a couple of dollars but full game price.
I won't say what I wanted to say because I'll get a suspension.
All I know is, this CEO is a douche to be blaming the player base for his lake of leadership and mistakes.
I think I have identified the source of your suspension issues.
Perhaps something a little be less on the name calling side might keep them more at bay?
But I won't disagree, the blame is being placed on the wrong parties, from reading the thread there many players have tried very hard to bring folks, but they won't stay with inadequate game play.
Oh yeah, I also read he want's to figure out how to recruit EVE players, I don't think he knows what he's saying, there isn't a fussier and more demanding bunch of primadonna's (and remember I resemble that remark) in the gaming world, the last thing he needs is a major faction like CFC (Goons) to descend on his game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is bullshit.
I myself was recruited by a player here on mmorpg.com and given key and all ingame help possible.
Unfortunately, no mater how much i wish the game to succeed i am not paying client price + 15$ monthly for what ammounts to early alpha pre production demo.
And honestly if they are stuck at this point, I would not count on game ever happening, because lot of work is needed still to bring this game even to alpha stage.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'm pretty sure that's Ryan's job
As he was the head of marketing for EvE if I'm not mistaken.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wait--your big "gotcha" is that the CEO of an indie developer is...marketing what they developed? Are you mental?
"Hey everyone check it out I caught the advertising people advertising things! Oh, oh also I just found out that people who run businesses try and make them successful oh what a super genius I am, I am caught them all! I am the Pokey-boy of catching teh game evil peeples!!!"
Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/
That isn't what was discussed, better go re-read the thread from the top.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's an era for MMO's where many of even the biggest AAA developers have been humbled by the subscription model and have had to go FTP on fully developed, content rich games.
Now you get some indie developer trying to charge a buy-in and a $15 monthly sub for a bare-bones, pre-alpha game.
Did they really not see a problem with this?
Ah, well. When you've failed at your job, I guess you want to blame anyone but yourself.
I asked him in the other thread why he thinks a alpha test sub model was a good business choice when even big named titles are failing with it. He insisted the game is not in a testing period because they are calling it "open enrollment" and there will be no wipes from here on out.
Terrible idea. You have to convince me to put up $50 or whatever just to BUY your game still in alpha, but to force $15 per month out of me for it as well. To test it for you? Seriously? Maybe if it looked more like a modern MMO, but it looks pretty dated too. Sorry, but I think this was a bad business decision.