Originally posted by elocke Anyone notice in this thread the real issue at hand? People still subbed who aren't playing/happy with the current game. No wonder it isn't changing, UNSUB for Pete's sake if you are taking a break or are unhappy. Your wallet will speak to Blizzard far better than any forum post. How will they ever learn why people leave if people still stay subbed because they are "used" to it or have opted for longer plans(hence why I always do monthly as I rarely stay longer than 2 to 3 months in one MMO anymore as it is).
Not far from the truth and it's never their own fault!
Originally posted by newhugh The strange thing is that WoD is certainly one of the best xPac since TBC.
You can't be serious. I disagree.
Wotlk was the best expansion by far. The stories were top notch. Wrath Gate, Dwarves & Frostborn, Ulduar, Death Knights, Dragon Aspects, Argent Tournament, Silver Covenant and Sunreavers, Kirin Tor, Nerubians, Vyrkuls, and Lich King. That expansion had some of the best WoW lore to date. And i'm just mentioning the storylines and lore.
There were many other new features and improvements too. Vehicles, phasing, new pvp game modes, Incscription profession, Wintergrasp, etc..
WoD gave us Garrisons, Ashran, and gutted our crafting professions. Not to mention the terrible story. An alternate universe in the past in Draenor... seriously? It's proof they have run out of ideas for WoW.
Originally posted by Sigilaea Going from 10 million users to 7 million is like moving from a 20 room mansion to a 16 room mansion. Oh the horror, how will they survive now that it takes them an extra 2 months to make $1 Billion.
Originally posted by GolbezTheLion
So, basically, they lost what they gained and ended up back at the 6-7 million they were originally holding strong at pre-WoD?
Doesn't seem very grim at all, as that is still 6.0-6.5 mil higher than the majority of MMORPGs. Blizzard reigns supreme as usual, nobody is going to dethrone the juggernaut.
Corporations and shareholders don't think like this. No business that plans on success for the long haul thinks like this. This is what business think - they saw a 30% drop in a major revenue stream inside a single quarter. It's very concerning from a business perspective. They're thinking, what are we going to do about it.
This is not the first nor the largest drop they have had in subscribers. They're thinking...... bull.... they have had several years to think about the decline in players since Wrath and they still continue to cater to the 12 year olds and screw up the lore with every follow up expansion... dumbing down is a word of the past... Blizzard is plain crapping all over the players and lying to them flat out. They aren't even trying to hide it any more.
"We took a different direction...." Down hill is still down hill, what direction? just saying it doesnt mean a thing when you continue to make the same stupid mistakes Blizzard. And millions of players bought into it just like they have since wrath.....
Oh and for those who think that 6-7 subs is still alright.. think on this:
Blizzard was at 12 million at one time, they dropped down to 8 million then 7 million, then bounce around for every expansion.. yet they always remain at the 6-7 million range through most of an expansion.... Btw 6-7 million is just a little more than the 4 million Blizzard already had for Burning Crusade....
Oh and Blizzard is holding onto the top barely, If I remember right Subs for Final Fantasy XIV:ARR are still climbing every quarter. and they are gaining on WoW.
Originally posted by Sigilaea Going from 10 million users to 7 million is like moving from a 20 room mansion to a 16 room mansion. Oh the horror, how will they survive now that it takes them an extra 2 months to make $1 Billion.
Exactly.
Still one fact remain for me. I have enjoyed a lot, really a lot, 1 month into gameplay leveling my alts. Then ... suddenly lost all interest to login back. In past this was happening after good half year at least of playing on daily basis. Obviously this time they did something very wrong, be it further dumbing down or whatever. I could not believe. MOP have played for more then 6 months and had before WOD start ful set of 22 maxed out alts. Now so far just few. I'm afraid this will never happen again.
Fortunately, Swtor is stil what it was. They wowizied him, unfortunately, but it is still fun to play as hell. Playing now aprox 6 months after left Wow in december. There I have all 16 alts and created new set of 8 on another server just to experience again starting zones or at least up to 40.
Still one fact remain for me. I have enjoyed a lot, really a lot, 1 month into gameplay leveling my alts. Then ... suddenly lost all interest to login back. In past this was happening after good half year at least of playing on daily basis. Obviously this time they did something very wrong, be it further dumbing down or whatever. I could not believe. MOP have played for more then 6 months and had before WOD start ful set of 22 maxed out alts. Now so far just few. I'm afraid this will never happen again.
MoP launched 25th September; in the five and a half months that followed Landfall (28th November) and Thunder King (6th March) released. New content helping you to to stick around - maybe - in that 6 month period. And Escalation would follow a couple of months later.
In the five and a half months since WoD launched.... a garrison upgrade.
With the memory of a 14 month content drought fresh in their mind - longer really since WoD was a paid expansion - maybe people have decided to take a break now and might come back a couple of months prior to the next expansion.
What I find funny is that WoW can lose 3 million subs and it's still a billion dollar per year juggernaught. Any other MMO would kill to have 3 million subs
Just a point - AB didn't actually say in this report that WoW was a billion dollar revenue stream. In past they have; not this time around. And at at 7M subs for a full year - especially when you factor in that they only get a royalty from TenCent - it won't be.
WoW will be fine four years to come. Everyday somewhere there's some 13 y.o. kid that's in Wal-Mart and sees WoW on the PC game isle and says to themselves man that looks like a pretty cool game. Takes it home and Blizzard has a new addict on their hands. I feel like this game will be around for decades to come. They'll keep on patching it and expanding it till kids are getting their entertainment from a holo deck in their parents basement. This franchise created an entire subculture and won't just disappear from existence one day.
I think Blizzard has made a number of choices about the game that have hurt them. The dumbing down of the classes, the never-ending quest for perfect balance, the refusal to split PVP and PVE completely (screwing up the balance efforts for both styles), minimizing the importance and value of trade skills, forcing choices in skill trees (not allowing the use of some skills from each), removing training and unique characteristics from hunter pets, and on and on and on. The farther away from vanilla WoW we get, the more it seems that vanilla will be everyone's flavor of choice, whether it be character type, playstyle, or even skill sets. The more they all look alike, the less interested I get, and that's as a player of many alts on 8 different accounts. It's getting hard to find the originality that keeps it exciting.
WoD is the best expansion since the BC/WoTLK days. That said it still has the age old WoW problem of lack of endgame content. Most people don't play WoW for pet battles or achievements. They play for PvE dungeons/raids and PvP.
There's just not enough to do in WoD at 100 and that's more apparent in this expansion then most. WoD as a whole felt very unfinished. Tanaan Jungle is in the middle of the map and it's just now being developed.
Yeah WoD is a great expansion, but Blizz is just so set on the raiding is the game ideal that they kinda lost the plot. I was raiding early on, but by the time the second tier came out I was just done dealing with my guild - I just don't care for heavily structured raiding where it begins to feel like a job. And since blizz gutted LFR, it just left PvP, so I geared out in arena gear and had some fun with that, but I really want to do group content without the nonsense.
Dungeons are just not that fun anymore, even challenge mode is speed running. I want dungeon crawling, not running. I don't want to grind the LFD queue, I want to get lost in a dungeon and spend the day in there. I miss stuff like the old BRD where you just find a group and stumble through for 4 hours. It's about playing the game, not about acquiring new pixels. I dunno, a lot has been lost in the transition to modern MMO gaming.
I think the biggest issue we have today is that the people who used to love the 4+ hour grinds. Are now a lot older with families and etc that probably keeps them from enjoying such content. I believe that the developers know this and have adjusted the speed of content completion to fit this demographic. The reality is that the new generation of mmo gamers who typically are the ones spending hours on end in game (like we vets did in the past) are just not interested in this type of content. So, while I realize there is a niche group of people that want this back. It probably wouldn't work today.
Originally posted by Erindorn I think Blizzard has made a number of choices about the game that have hurt them. The dumbing down of the classes, the never-ending quest for perfect balance, the refusal to split PVP and PVE completely (screwing up the balance efforts for both styles), minimizing the importance and value of trade skills, forcing choices in skill trees (not allowing the use of some skills from each), removing training and unique characteristics from hunter pets, and on and on and on. The farther away from vanilla WoW we get, the more it seems that vanilla will be everyone's flavor of choice, whether it be character type, playstyle, or even skill sets. The more they all look alike, the less interested I get, and that's as a player of many alts on 8 different accounts. It's getting hard to find the originality that keeps it exciting.
Completely agree with this. I for one cannot go back to WoW because of these decisions that Blizzard made.
Originally posted by Erindorn I think Blizzard has made a number of choices about the game that have hurt them. The dumbing down of the classes, the never-ending quest for perfect balance, the refusal to split PVP and PVE completely (screwing up the balance efforts for both styles), minimizing the importance and value of trade skills, forcing choices in skill trees (not allowing the use of some skills from each), removing training and unique characteristics from hunter pets, and on and on and on. The farther away from vanilla WoW we get, the more it seems that vanilla will be everyone's flavor of choice, whether it be character type, playstyle, or even skill sets. The more they all look alike, the less interested I get, and that's as a player of many alts on 8 different accounts. It's getting hard to find the originality that keeps it exciting.
Completely agree with this. I for one cannot go back to WoW because of these decisions that Blizzard made.
i wish that i could go back to 2007 wow but i still enjoy it
Whilst I have enjoyed some of the Garrison content in WoD, it quickly becomes a grind after more than two of your toons graduate, and I can't help wishing that the Garrison had been made account based, rather than character based, with more flexibility in size and content to adjust for multi-toon use. If this were the case, it would be much more enjoyable with none of the constant repetition of tasks and quests, which becomes, quite frankly, a huge bore.
Also, I find that the thing that initially drove me away from WoW, crafting, is driving me away again. The whole crafting system needs to be re-thought, with the most important issue for me still being level-bound crafting. In many other games ( i.e. Rift ), I can have a craft-only toon, who can adopt multiple crafts and sit in town providing gear for my other toons, with no level restrictions on progression. My crafters can progress to the peak of their crafting ability without having to raise a sword in anger (or mace, spear or wand, delete as appropriate). WoW still adheres to the level-bound crafting system which is a total PITA and hugely frustrating.
Sorry Blizzard, but it's just another case of what could have been a great idea falling severely short, and I'm just about to cancel my sub yet again.
One other thing to consider is that they've always bloated those numbers with the international sales. So if that drop was on the domestic side, it would be very troubling.
So what really, game has been a huge success, pretty much ruined the mmo market with cheap wow knock off games by everybody trying to duplicate the success.
things wind down and move on, at some point wow will go f2p or b2p, the game is getting old, I doubt they get very many new players and the ones that are still playing most likely still play because of all the time they have invested and part of their daily activities.
The AAA model is dying as well it seems as players today would not know a good game if it bit them on the arse, seems like they settle for cheap f2p which costs far more to play if you want any kind of game experience. Oh well /shrug
Originally posted by Sigilaea Going from 10 million users to 7 million is like moving from a 20 room mansion to a 16 room mansion. Oh the horror, how will they survive now that it takes them an extra 2 months to make $1 Billion.
think this way they budget based on number of subscribers,now they lose 1/3,thats is 1/3 of revenue in a few months,now they have to scrap projects,delay projects.it hurts.by the way if 7m jumped off a cliff would you?
Originally posted by Sigilaea Going from 10 million users to 7 million is like moving from a 20 room mansion to a 16 room mansion. Oh the horror, how will they survive now that it takes them an extra 2 months to make $1 Billion.
club penguin has 30m players,wizard101 has 20m,runescape has 6.5m
I just subbed over the weekend. I'm new to the game, but having fun so far. I can't help but feel like I am sooooo far behind though. I've done endgame raiding in other games though so hopefully that will help me. I will have to find a guild to run with and learn from. I don't think this game is going to die anytime soon though. 7 million is nothing to sneeze at and is still more than other mmos are pulling in.
Originally posted by SBFord I know I've had my issues as well with WoD. I hate my Garrison and the thought of the Shipyard is just plain depressing. Garrison Jr.
I agree 100% it was the garrison that killed it for me. And then I did see a stream when someone showed the Shipyard and I was just not impressed at all. My subscription runs out on Wednesday and it will not be renewed.
So many renewed with WoD hoping some of the magic of original WoW had come back. It hasn't.
The game will always have a strong core of dedicated players from now until sunset ... in 2030 or whenever it happens... but WoW will never again see 10 million. It's just going to be a long, slow curve downward from here with exception to a spike every new expansion as people take a peek in, play for a month or two, then leave.
It's still a credit to WoW that the only true WoW Killer is going to be time itself.
I purchased WoD and re-subbed to WoW about a month ago(peer pressure). Instant buyers remorse. I couldn't even get to the WoD content before I burned out. I can barely comprehend how dumbed down the game is now compared to when I played in WotLK (which most would say was already dumbed down). I'm still subbed even though I don't play because my emotions won't let me get over the sunk cost of $50.
I did not play original WoW so I don't even have those rose tinted glasses on.
I hear you! Although I didn't purchase WoD, I did re-sub to see if I could stomach the game again before deciding whether it was worth it to throw down the cash for the expansion.
And I'm not sure I can stomach the game, for the reason you mention. The game has indeed been dumbed down even more -- if that was possible! Now I see several class abilities have been removed and class mechanics feel even simpler than before, which was already mind-numbingly boring.
I personally feel this is one of WoW's biggest problems causing the dip in numbers -- and one that is often overlooked as the reason why. The game is being molded for 12 year-olds.
Like myself, a lot of people have got to be bored with combat in this game and many of those have probably moved on to one of the many new games where combat feels more fluid and enjoyable.
If feels like WoW is trying to move toward fewer skills, similar to many of the newer MMOs out there; however, there is one thing missing from WoW that makes fewer skills viable in other games: action combat!
Maybe it's me, but WoW combat feels even simpler than it did in the past and thus feels stale.
Originally posted by Erindorn I think Blizzard has made a number of choices about the game that have hurt them. The dumbing down of the classes, the never-ending quest for perfect balance, the refusal to split PVP and PVE completely (screwing up the balance efforts for both styles), minimizing the importance and value of trade skills, forcing choices in skill trees (not allowing the use of some skills from each), removing training and unique characteristics from hunter pets, and on and on and on. The farther away from vanilla WoW we get, the more it seems that vanilla will be everyone's flavor of choice, whether it be character type, playstyle, or even skill sets. The more they all look alike, the less interested I get, and that's as a player of many alts on 8 different accounts. It's getting hard to find the originality that keeps it exciting.
Completely agree with this. I for one cannot go back to WoW because of these decisions that Blizzard made.
Add me to that list as well.
The game has been so dumbed down, IMHO it should now be called World of Borecraft.
Comments
Not far from the truth and it's never their own fault!
You can't be serious. I disagree.
Wotlk was the best expansion by far. The stories were top notch. Wrath Gate, Dwarves & Frostborn, Ulduar, Death Knights, Dragon Aspects, Argent Tournament, Silver Covenant and Sunreavers, Kirin Tor, Nerubians, Vyrkuls, and Lich King. That expansion had some of the best WoW lore to date. And i'm just mentioning the storylines and lore.
There were many other new features and improvements too. Vehicles, phasing, new pvp game modes, Incscription profession, Wintergrasp, etc..
WoD gave us Garrisons, Ashran, and gutted our crafting professions. Not to mention the terrible story. An alternate universe in the past in Draenor... seriously? It's proof they have run out of ideas for WoW.
This is not the first nor the largest drop they have had in subscribers. They're thinking...... bull.... they have had several years to think about the decline in players since Wrath and they still continue to cater to the 12 year olds and screw up the lore with every follow up expansion... dumbing down is a word of the past... Blizzard is plain crapping all over the players and lying to them flat out. They aren't even trying to hide it any more.
"We took a different direction...." Down hill is still down hill, what direction? just saying it doesnt mean a thing when you continue to make the same stupid mistakes Blizzard. And millions of players bought into it just like they have since wrath.....
Oh and for those who think that 6-7 subs is still alright.. think on this:
Blizzard was at 12 million at one time, they dropped down to 8 million then 7 million, then bounce around for every expansion.. yet they always remain at the 6-7 million range through most of an expansion.... Btw 6-7 million is just a little more than the 4 million Blizzard already had for Burning Crusade....
Oh and Blizzard is holding onto the top barely, If I remember right Subs for Final Fantasy XIV:ARR are still climbing every quarter. and they are gaining on WoW.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Exactly.
Still one fact remain for me. I have enjoyed a lot, really a lot, 1 month into gameplay leveling my alts. Then ... suddenly lost all interest to login back. In past this was happening after good half year at least of playing on daily basis. Obviously this time they did something very wrong, be it further dumbing down or whatever. I could not believe. MOP have played for more then 6 months and had before WOD start ful set of 22 maxed out alts. Now so far just few. I'm afraid this will never happen again.
Fortunately, Swtor is stil what it was. They wowizied him, unfortunately, but it is still fun to play as hell. Playing now aprox 6 months after left Wow in december. There I have all 16 alts and created new set of 8 on another server just to experience again starting zones or at least up to 40.
MoP launched 25th September; in the five and a half months that followed Landfall (28th November) and Thunder King (6th March) released. New content helping you to to stick around - maybe - in that 6 month period. And Escalation would follow a couple of months later.
In the five and a half months since WoD launched.... a garrison upgrade.
With the memory of a 14 month content drought fresh in their mind - longer really since WoD was a paid expansion - maybe people have decided to take a break now and might come back a couple of months prior to the next expansion.
Just a point - AB didn't actually say in this report that WoW was a billion dollar revenue stream. In past they have; not this time around. And at at 7M subs for a full year - especially when you factor in that they only get a royalty from TenCent - it won't be.
Great numbers as you say but ...
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
ye could have been 6 million.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Great quote there and I agree.
Completely agree with this. I for one cannot go back to WoW because of these decisions that Blizzard made.
wasn't it 7 million before the xpac ?
i dont see where the problem is sure ( 10 to 7) is not a good thing but sill 7 is a large number
i wish that i could go back to 2007 wow but i still enjoy it
Whilst I have enjoyed some of the Garrison content in WoD, it quickly becomes a grind after more than two of your toons graduate, and I can't help wishing that the Garrison had been made account based, rather than character based, with more flexibility in size and content to adjust for multi-toon use. If this were the case, it would be much more enjoyable with none of the constant repetition of tasks and quests, which becomes, quite frankly, a huge bore.
Also, I find that the thing that initially drove me away from WoW, crafting, is driving me away again. The whole crafting system needs to be re-thought, with the most important issue for me still being level-bound crafting. In many other games ( i.e. Rift ), I can have a craft-only toon, who can adopt multiple crafts and sit in town providing gear for my other toons, with no level restrictions on progression. My crafters can progress to the peak of their crafting ability without having to raise a sword in anger (or mace, spear or wand, delete as appropriate). WoW still adheres to the level-bound crafting system which is a total PITA and hugely frustrating.
Sorry Blizzard, but it's just another case of what could have been a great idea falling severely short, and I'm just about to cancel my sub yet again.
So what really, game has been a huge success, pretty much ruined the mmo market with cheap wow knock off games by everybody trying to duplicate the success.
things wind down and move on, at some point wow will go f2p or b2p, the game is getting old, I doubt they get very many new players and the ones that are still playing most likely still play because of all the time they have invested and part of their daily activities.
The AAA model is dying as well it seems as players today would not know a good game if it bit them on the arse, seems like they settle for cheap f2p which costs far more to play if you want any kind of game experience. Oh well /shrug
think this way they budget based on number of subscribers,now they lose 1/3,thats is 1/3 of revenue in a few months,now they have to scrap projects,delay projects.it hurts.by the way if 7m jumped off a cliff would you?
club penguin has 30m players,wizard101 has 20m,runescape has 6.5m
I agree 100% it was the garrison that killed it for me. And then I did see a stream when someone showed the Shipyard and I was just not impressed at all. My subscription runs out on Wednesday and it will not be renewed.
I hear you! Although I didn't purchase WoD, I did re-sub to see if I could stomach the game again before deciding whether it was worth it to throw down the cash for the expansion.
And I'm not sure I can stomach the game, for the reason you mention. The game has indeed been dumbed down even more -- if that was possible! Now I see several class abilities have been removed and class mechanics feel even simpler than before, which was already mind-numbingly boring.
I personally feel this is one of WoW's biggest problems causing the dip in numbers -- and one that is often overlooked as the reason why. The game is being molded for 12 year-olds.
Like myself, a lot of people have got to be bored with combat in this game and many of those have probably moved on to one of the many new games where combat feels more fluid and enjoyable.
If feels like WoW is trying to move toward fewer skills, similar to many of the newer MMOs out there; however, there is one thing missing from WoW that makes fewer skills viable in other games: action combat!
Maybe it's me, but WoW combat feels even simpler than it did in the past and thus feels stale.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Add me to that list as well.
The game has been so dumbed down, IMHO it should now be called World of Borecraft.