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[Column] Guild Wars 2: Making Events More Dynamic
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Dynamic Events are a large and important concept in Guild Wars 2. They’ve helped bring players together, and showed us that a game world could feel alive. But like any other young concept, there is definitely room for growth. And what better way to see dynamic events taken to the next level than through an expansion?
Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: Making Events Truly Dynamic.
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Players need a reason to rally together. They need to fear the consequences of failure.
Comments
"Players need a reason to rally together. They need to fear the consequences of failure."
These are two elements sorely missing from recent MMOs. Well said.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Ive always wanted to see a huge in game battle event and if people don't aid in the stopping of the army it keeps ravaging the land,making objectives impossible until the tide of battle is swayed. I guess we can wait and see!
There is no need to actually group with anyone in Gw2. Open tagging. You simply will be grouped up by proximity if you don't care for chatting.
I agree that the dynamic events aren't really dynamic. I don't really care that the Monkeys from Galactic Tree Park are taking over the Banana Store because I know the Banana Store Union will just take it back.
But I also know that relying on others to do their part, always, in a open world where anyone can join is sometimes a very head-hurting experience. Promoting teamwork is great. Forcing well timed and perfectly executed team plays is not great.
It would indeed be a grand experience if events had a real outcome. If say the Monkeys weren't just monkeying around (and weren't to busy singing) and they didn't stop at the Banana Store, they went on to lay waste to other towns, killing NPCs, raising the Monkey flag (literally, not figuratively).
Look at it this way:
1) If you AFK and put in no effort:
A) Success. Max reward for no effort. Huge win.
2) You show up at start and contribute:
A) Success. Max reward for max effort. Expected outcome.
Its a terrible system. Since the reward is fixed regardless of the effort, the more effort you put in the more you set yourself up for total failure.
yeah this stuff is great the first 1-5 times, after that you just want it to be as easy and fast as possible
compelling rewards drive participation, if your reward system sucks, so will the participation
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women...
Well considering thats not true afk in vinewraith and contribute nothing by via kill npcs and such and you get no reward, and no bonus chests, and not contributing btw only gets you bronze if you just afk, that is not a full reward.
Look... single player games can truly change the world because anyone who plays the game will experience the before and after worlds and their actions can have real consequences.
MMOs won't do that simply because content developers want everyone to experience their content and wouldn't be happy with only the first few to go through it seeing the before state and anyone who comes after the change missing out on it... not to mention that players would whine about it.
So by default, in MMOs, dynamic events need to be temporary and repeatable which leads to them being exposed for what they are, glorified group quest chains.
Of course they can be fun the first time through but when you come back to the area and see the same thing happening again the immersion and credibility go out the window.
Not that they aren't more fun than solo quests - they are, and they promote casual grouping and give the game play a more cooperative feel.
But true world changes won't happen in MMOs until players and developers alike buy into the concept of players coming into the game part way through a story and being OK with missing out on the changes to the world that already happened before they got there.
The only type of MMO where this can happen is in sandboxes that have little to no pre-canned content and the play can be truly emergent with player created structures and their destruction. But in a themepark like GW2 where the enjoyment comes from developer=made content and stories, it'll never happen.
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I mean, this is a big "I told you so" moment for me seeing as how I was saying this years ago even before release. These events are just regular quest chains that you may or may not happen to come upon as you run through an area. Nothing changes.. the mob names don't change, the mobs themselves don't change, the way to win is always the same, and if you're lucky you may get some better loot, but the chances are so slim it doesn't counteract the monotony.
Part of this I feel is because of event scaling, and event cycles in general. A dragon that you don't kill doesn't just hang out and cause destruction until its beaten... and theres no specific number required to win. The "lasting changes" that happen by not completing these things don't last, they're quickly defeated, and most events can be completed with one person with no major detriment to anything if they fail. -- they even still get rewards.
Its not something I think they'll change. The game is just setup to be accessible to everyone, but when this originally launched I recall everyone claiming how this will never get boring and how different it will feel. At least with regular quests you don't have to see the majority of them again, here they're always in your face.
It sounds to me that most everyone wants in something that resembles Rift. I agree with most of you that just general questing gets dull and boring. Most developers hope that after the quests are completed and the players are at max level that PvP fills in the empty hole that is PvE end game to satisfy the general masses until they are done developing content. It never happens this way because the developer does not plan for extreme hardcore players, the games are like it has ben said over and over again, the general masses.
I think a really neat introduction to a MMORPG that would make everything different is introducing random events that reflect something like an invasion. If the enemy is successful in its initial invasion, then it moves on and progressively gets bigger and bigger. And as it captures points on the map (i.e.. points of interest, cities, way points, ext.), not only do you lose the ability to teleport to that location, the enemy gains advantages either in movement, weapon enhancements, protections, or a combination. Kind of like a real war where resources are a necessity.
Something built off this in general would improve on the end game content because you are trying to preserve the world. By loosing these resources, locations, ext., the player is loosing that also in tradable items or crafting/gathering items. This would create something like a living quest. Example as in players looking for a certain type of mining material but the enemy has control of the area. By the enemy having control of the area, they cannot gather said material. So that player finds other players also needing to mine said material so they group up and take on the area to rid the enemy and recapture the point for the benefit of the server.
This would go a long way in enhancing the community as a whole to work together and expand the game capability to immerse players in deep gameplay.
Lions Arch!
IMO, they should add content that slowly allows players to contribute to rebuilding Lions Arch. Adding quests that require players to gather timber and stone to rebuild the actual building that were destroyed. Rewards could be provided that help the player to acquire better gear, based on how much they contribute. Imagine doing the daily of gathering lumber and then actually taking it to a repair NPC instead of just selling it to the highest bidder on TP. Giving the player a reason to do the daily.
This could be extended to adding raiding parties to Lions Arch that try to destroy the buildings again. Making it an ongoing process and more interesting than Lions Arch being mostly just a waste of space. Another extension could be that these raiding parties eventually build up to an all out battle, completely destroying everything again. Say once a month. This would all players to see see Lions arch in both the destroyed state and the fully repaired state. Surely if there was enough thought put in to it, this would add things for players to work towards besides just gathering the best gear, thus making the game more interesting and fun to play.
The problem with making real world changes that last is what ESO had, players who were in different parts of a quest couldn't group together because they were in a different phase of the event. Sooner or later you have to have a reset.
As to making things harder, there will always be people who want things to be harder just like there will always be people who want things to be easy. Games have to find a balance that most can live with. Hardcore games are not the most popular. Just like games that are to easy, you play them awhile, get frustrated or bored, and leave. No masses no money.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Totally agree on this, there are a lot of world boss events that I no longer have any interest in doing, simply because they are too hard to be worth the effort. Golem for example, an aoe that downs you with one hit and it is an area that is way to large to be able to get in attack then run before it hits, kind of pointless. And if you do stick around, the reward is not worth anything except mostly as salvaged mats etc, that you can get fighting sb, by standing in front of it and repeatedly pressing the 1 key!
Instanced content. This is why dungeons and raids became so popular, because they offer a private encounter from the outside world.
You proposal sounds like a lot of fun gw2fool. It definitely would increase the ability for the player to immerse themselves not only in the game, but the environment as well. Expanding on you proposal in regards to raiding progression from enemy NPC, losing the ability to trade with said location can have a dramatic impact on the location.
Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn’t the work required to enter the code be little due to everything being made already? Just have to put this here and a timer on it? Just want a little more input on this area.
Isn't this every mmorpg pretty much ever?
Of course this would also be some thing that developers would need to be aware of and design to avoid the situation. Perhaps beefing up the power of NPC's that would auto spawn in the area, based on how many players were around that needed help. If no players were present then no NPC spawn, if one player then spawn a couple or more NPC helpers. All based on what ever was required for the area.
So these Dynamic events, don't change the entire landscape they don't go from one camp to the next randomly, they don't permanently change everything but this expansion is supposed to make that possible? wait what? I thought that's exactly what these Dynamic events were supposed to do from the start. Change the world if you failed, mobs go from one camp to the next slowly taking over the area. Not take over each camp in a single and just stop.
You can just simply change these back if you win the next event? what the? So these are just like rifts, which are basically public quests? Okay I should never get jumped for calling these Dynamic events public quests because that's exactly what they are, public quests the only addition is they can go back and forth down the line instead of just forward.
Lets call a spade a spade people, not call a spade a fork because it has a slightly longer handle, you confuse people. Okay now that we are clear it's a slightly modified form of Public quest, maybe now they can get to actually making these events do something permanent to the world instead of being public quests like changing buildings or offering new quests to the surrounding areas to reflect this lose, or gasp make the public quest no longer available when it reaches the end and make a different one appear that people can do, now thats a living story, cause that would make it actually interesting. You could also get additional player interesting if you make it possible for me to help the monsters fight against the good people. Oh wait, the races aren't at war with each other and PvP isn't allow. Dang well there goes that fun idea.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
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