DAoC vs WOW(no flame plz)

6SlipKnoT6 · February 2006

i have 600 hours of playtime and i think wow become boring after u make lvl 60 and start pvp and pve instacing..i wanna ask for ur opionion is daoc better?is pvp better or not?i realy like soloing.Is game soloable?i wanna see opinions of ex-wow players and opinions of experianced daoc players . tnx in advance

scaramoosh · February 2006

I wish these forums had a search button.
Anyways of corse people will say DAOC is better, this is a DAOC forum.

Each site has a list of features, see which ones you like best.

Warfran · February 2006

I played WoW for over a year and had a blast,with a couple of level 60's and a few alts.I am not going to say DAoC is better than WoW as I have only been playing for just over a month now,but so far it is every bit as enjoyable.

I can solo easily as a Thane up to now(level 19)and have had lots of fun doing it.I will be grouping more now that I have found a good Guild to join(Archangels)but both are viable in this game.

Having found WoW's end game so limiting I am looking forward to having a ton of game left when hitting 50 in DAoC with ToA,sounds like lots of fun compared to WoW's rinse repeat end game.
When I got bored with WoW I tried EQ2 then Guild Wars,neither really did it for me after giving them both a chance,but DAoC did do it for me right away.

I have and still do recommend this game to any current or former WoW player,I think you will have a really good time with it,I know I have.

Evelknievel · February 2006

I too have played WoW since its day 1 release back in 2004. DAoC setting is going to be more

slated to realism then WoW with its Earth Mythology background, like the Viking Gods and

Arthurian Lore instead of the Paperback WoW Lore.

The game is over 6 yrs old I think and has been through alot, but if your looking for a new

challenge and a different aspect of mmorpg, this game is it. If your a hardcore rpg/mmorpg

and can relate to hardcore mmorpgs, try it out.

At 1st, if your used to playing WoW, forget what you know about that game and keep an open

mind. At 1st the game will be over whelming, but once you get used to it, its fantastic!

Nice little weblink that got me to play it after I watched it.

http://camelot-europe.goa.com/de/index.htm?&page=trailer

PS. enjoy the game, if you decide to stay! And make sure you buy the EPIC Edition Box of DAoC, you intend to miss out on alot of graphic updates if you d/l the trial and patch on the expansions.

The Classic servers are a PLUS to any newcomer to the game unless you like to SOLO alot, go to

Normal Servers.

JulianDracos · February 2006

In 600 hours of DAOC you could have 3 character to level 50 (max level).

PvP is far better. Instead of pointless fighting there are objectives to fighting the enemy. You can conquer keeps and towers as well as slaughter your enemy. You have 44 unique classes. DAOC has a lot more content. Most of the post 50 content is in actual zones and not instances.

Soloing is possible with almost any class. Many classes can solo very fast if that is what you want. However getting groups is usually easy if you want to group.

To me, WoW just reminds me of EQ turned of easy mode with a pointless PvP system. I hate EQ and I do not like playing something where there is not point. So that is why I stick with DAOC.

Faulty · February 2006

WoW has a very clean interface that's simple to understand. You are going to log on to DAoC, see the world and the interface and be all like, wtf? I come from WoW and now have a level 22, as well as numerous characters between lvl 7 and lvl 11. The first two or three days I had this game I barely played because I found it so confusing and different and I found myself dieing easily and having trouble navigating the game. It actually made me sad but then I took the time and reread the manual and did parts of the newbie quest and asked about and practiced and... once you get a hang of the UI it's a BLAST! Honestly, totally worth it.

There is a lot more diversity in this game too. In WoW you have 2 factions, each with 4 races, and each faction has access to 8 classes, one of which is faction specific. In DAoC you have 3 factions, each with 6 races, Hibernia and Albion have 15 classes, Midgard has 14 classes, and each class is faction specific. Many classes have similarities, for example the main tanks (Armsman, Hero, Warrior) all have the general heavy tank stuff... but only the Hero can unleash the power of a stag and turn into a more powerful half-stag warrior every once in a while. Speccing in DAoC gives you most of your abilities, instead of augmenting them, and specing is more complicated here. I suggest that you look into the spec syste, spec calculators, and visit the class forums at http://daoc.catacombs.com/ (Class forums: http://daoc.catacombs.com/list_classforum.cfm). That site also has a spec builder. Know which final class you have in mind when choosing race, starter class, and stats.

RvR is more interesting than WoW PvP. Warsong Gulch was fun yeah, but in DAoC you're not running through a tunnel into a room to steal a flag... You're busting through a wall using siege machinery and then busting into a keep, killing enemy players and NPCs along the way, in the hopes of capturing the keep for your realm. How cool is that?

This game is definately worth a try if you're a WoW refugee. If you want a more interesting PvE end game and more abilities/twinkability end game don't roll on a Classic server so you'll have access to Trials of Atlantis.

bmj001 · February 2006

Originally posted by HiGHPLaiNS

The game is over 6 yrs old I think and has been through alot, but if your looking for a new
It was released Nov 2001 so it will be 6 years at the end of this year.
I've been playing the game since the first week it came out and I'm still having a blast. Believe it or not, I play the same character that I created the first day, my Realm Rank 8.8 Theurgist, and have not gotten bored yet. There are plenty of classes with so much utility that I have not had the need to switch to other classes. I have made a couple of other chars (50 Shield Pally and 50 Cleric Buffbot) but they are only for specific roles. When it comes to RvR I'll stick with my theurge.
Can't really say much that has not been said already. Btw, Midgard has a morph class as well, the Zerker turns into a bear.

Echani · February 2006

I liked both games when I played them consistantly. As far as end game is concerned I like DAoC better. It just has so much more to offer and alot more people in one place at one time. Participate in one 100 v. 100 keep siege and tell me you can find that anywhere else. I love WoW for some of it's dynamics, but the end game was not one of them.

Elnator · February 2006

I hated everything about WoW so I really can't comment DAoC is so superior in every aspect of game play and graphics style and responsiveness of the devs and community that there just really is no comparison.

SBC3 · February 2006

Duh DAOC is so much better all the way around.

6SlipKnoT6 · February 2006

Tnx guys for the tons of information.I played daoc 2 mounts ago ,made lvl7 rogue and it was very enjoyable,the quests interesting ( i made all the newbie quest chain

) not boring and constantly repeatable like WOW.I have 2 more questions:is there enough ppl in servers so i can enjoy the game at maximum and is there PK system? tnx again in advance

Faulty · February 2006

Gareth is the most populous Classic server. I believe Lancelot and Merlin have a lot of traffic too, for Normal servers. Lamorak is the second most populous Classic server and is paired with the sparse third Classic server, Ector. Ector is where you would roll if you want a less crowded community, but still want access to a good BG population (they're clustered permanently in the BG) and you can always port over to Lamorak. (You can port to similar servers in clusters. Classic to Classic in the case of Ector and Lamorak, on Normal server clusters you can port to other Normal servers in the cluster).

As for PK... no ganking except in Darkness Falls and Demon Breach. And that is actually QUITE fun. I destroyed an orange Saracen with mild help from a Hunter pet (irionically not the Hunter herself) and was saved from a surprisngly well-geared Firbolg by a Kobold Shadow Blade. That kinda world PvP is hella fun, and the BGs also supply it. As for the equivalent of an honor system... starting with the 15-19 BG you gain realm points for participation in BGs/New Frontiers. These up your rankings and let you train in great realm abilities. Oh, and remember. Killing an enemy player that is not grey = exp. ::::39::

spraguep · February 2006

I've never really thought about this much, I've always had more fun in WoW and that was my justification for staying with it. However, now that I'm bored sick of WoW I think I can look back and compare them.

I have four level 60s in WoW, 2 on a pve and 2 on a pvp server. All are alliance.
I have 4 DAOC accounts, 2 60 shaman, 1 healer RR8.5, 60 Zerk, SM, Savage, and Warrior

I think I'll try and compare them in specific categories.

Races
Classes
New Player Experience
UI/Scripting/Macros
Questing
PVE Content
Raid Content
Itemization
Leveling in general
PVP System
PVP Rewards
Developers
Community

Races
-----------------------------------------------------
WoW:
Alliance: humans, gnomes, dwarfs, night elves
Horde: undead, tauren, orcs, trolls for horde

DAOC has a lot more race options spread of the 3 realms:
Albion: Briton, Saracen, Avalonian, Highlander, Inconnu, Half Ogre
Hibernia: Celt, Lurikeen, Firbolg, Elf, Sylvan, Shar
Midgard: Kobold, Dwarf, Norse, Troll, Valkyn, Frostalf

6 of these races for DAOC are from the SI expansion pack. WoW has yet to release their 1st expansion but it will have 2 new races from what I understand.

Race choices in both games limits the classes you can pick. DAOC races have predefines starting stats that make the races unique; for example Midgard Trolls start with 100 strength. You can then distribute 30 points into your characters stats: strength, constitution, dexterity, quickness, intelligence, empathy, piety, charisma.

In terms of customizing your character WoW and DAOC were about the same, WoW has slightly more options. Mythic's catacombs expansion added a lot more options for customizing your characters look; mostly in the face. I think with catacombs you can also change some of these options post-character creation like your hair.

Unlike DAOC, WoW races get unique passive abilities and 1 unique active ability. But you don't get to customize the starting races in any way other then visually in wow.

This is both a good and bad thing. Many of the stats in daoc are useless for a lot of classes and prior to catacombs the UI didn't even hint at what you should put your points into. WoW simple skips this all together. In the end the 30 points you're give are mostly meaningless, your spell crafted armor and artifacts will help to cap everything out anyway.

Classes
-----------------------------------------------------
For WoW:
Warrior, Priest, Mage, Hunter, Warlock, Rogue

Horde unique is Shaman
Alliance unique is Paladin

For DAOC:
Albion has: Armsman, Mercenary, Paladin, Reaver, Sorcerer, Cabalist, Wizard, Theurgist, Cleric, Friar, Scout, Infiltrator, Minstrel, Necromancer

Hibernia: Hero, Champion, Blademaster, Enchanter, Mentalist, Eldritch, Bard, Druid, Warden, Ranger, Nightshade, Animist, Valewalker

Midgard: Warrior, Thane, Skald, Berserker, Savage, Healer, Shaman, Runemaster, Spiritmaster, Bonedancer, Hunter, Shadowblade

Clearly daoc has a lot more diversity which is generally a good thing. However I can tell you from all my years in daoc it is also the root of a lot of fighting and flame wars. Mythic has a really hard time balancing all of these classes and most of the classes are unique to the point that they do not have a direct parallel to another class in another realm. Necro, Animists, and Bonedancers for instance.

WoW has less variety but also has an easier time balancing the classes. This of course doesn't mean WoW is balanced at all, it just means it "should" be easier.

New Player Experience
-----------------------------------------------------
Back in the day the starting experience for daoc was BAD, enough said. Catacombs added tons of quest and noob areas to get you started. The Camelot herald also has information on just about every aspect of the game these days. IT also has a new player guide: http://www.camelotherald.com/section.php?id=27

Doc has also started to mimic a lot of the features in WoW to help with this. WoW has a much easier interface to start with, and the starting areas are very small with a simple linear quest sequence to go through. You don't need to spec in anything or have a deep understand of your class to prevent gimping yourself.

My understanding is that DAOC has added a full respec at level 5 when you pick your classes so get around this.

I'll keep touching on this subject as I go. But I think WoW is a clear winner for the noobs.

UI/Scripting/Macros
-----------------------------------------------------

DAOC has a XML driven UI, it's mostly for skinning only, you can create new window but for the most part you can't do anything new. The XML components hook into predefined data supplied that Mythic has supplied you with. There is no client side scripting.

Doc does support an in-game /macro command, and you can use /keybind (i think) to bind just about any key to any bar/slot.

I think the daoc UI is clean and simple. Some of the widgets they used were kind of poor, such as items with really long names going right off the end of the vault/bank window. The UI could also be kind of sluggish if your computer wasn't all that fast.

WoW, offers total control of your UI through lua scripting. It also has in-game macros and the ability to bind every bar/slot to just about any key/mouse button you want.

I think the default UIs for both games are about the same in usability. WoW is far more powerful and extensible though.

Questing
-----------------------------------------------------
WoW is designed for questing, that's what the PVE in WoW is all about. I think there are over 3500 quests in WoW. The questing system in wow is very friendly to noobs and players in general. You can see visually how hard the quest is, what you need to do, what the reward is, you can even link the reward right form you quest log, you can share quests with your group members, and for the most part the quest information isn't vague or confusing. WoW also has a visual system so you can see who has a quest for you, who will have a quest for you in the future, who is expecting you to turn a quest in to them.

Granted have big orange question marks floating in the air can make the game seem kind of cheesy
However this is easy for noobs, Also a nice feature is that an NPC you need to turn a quest into will show up as a yellow dot on the mini map.

DAOC, prior to catacombs, had a quest system that was clearly derived from the stone age of MUDS. You would need to /say words in white or click the word to progress NPC interaction. In a way this might make it feel more real to some people, I found it annoying, Often times the NPCs would give poor information or no information on how to finish the quest, and there was no indication of how hard the quest was or what your reward would be. The system flat out sucked.

Catacombs has pulled from ideas from WoW and added a lot more quests (around 400 I think). I can't really recall that much else about it, NPC has a yellow glow around their feet when they have a quest for you.

Overall I still wasn't impressed with the catacombs quest system. WoW is king of questing.

Often I hear that the quests in WoW are almost all the time etc. The same is true for DAOC, and every other RPG I've played. You need to go talk to someone, collect some items, kill something or someone, etc. They all suffer from the same problem, how do you make hundreds of unique quests?

On of the things about WoW is that most of the quests can be done solo, This makes that game casual friendly. The quests also tend to not take more than 30 minutes in general and you get a reward for you time, XP and coin/items. This is very position and help to keep a lot of players addicted, it makes you feel like you are making progress.

DAOC doesn't have that same feeling, I'm not sure why. Perhaps I was already burned out on the "quest" from WoW when I was play catacombs. WoW just feels like it has a lot more positive reenforcement built into it's questing system.

One thing is for sure you can get to level 60 in WoW without ever grind on mobs; if you want to you can and in some cases it's faster XP, but you don't need to.

DAOC, even with catacombs, this isn't true, you will have to grind. However this isn't a huge deal anymore because you can grind task dungeons for massive amounts of XP. OR get powerleveled in a pbae group, I think you can get a 50 in something like 3 days in modernagrav/midgard with an SM group .

PVE Content/Raid Content
-----------------------------------------------------
DAOC has release 3 expansion: SI, TOA, and DR. While there are more zones overall in daoc 1 player isn't going to experience them all unless they are playing 3 different characters on 3 different servers.

WoW has a ton of PVE content, it's what the game is really all about. Yes there are pvp servers and battleground, but they don't even compare to daoc ppvp

I'm not going to write to much here because with 3 expansions daoc has a lot of raid and instanced dungeons now. Given that WoW has released entire new raid dungeons in content pages it's only a matter of time before WoW blows clear past daoc.

Itemization
-----------------------------------------------------
WoW is all about items, in fact the end game in WoW is really about farming items in raid dungeons. There are many many items.

DAOC doesn't even close, which is a good thing really, TOA was all about items and pve raiding and it's considered to be the downfall of daoc for many players. This is why the classic servers, with no TOA enabled, were released.

If you were into farming items in Diablo 2 then WoW is you thing, If you want balanced pvp then daoc is your thing.

Once classes in WoW hit 60 their only method to grow and become more powerful is through items. This basically destroys the end game pvp.

For instance warriors, wearing all epic will shred any other warrior 1-on-1. In a way you could consider this high vs. low realm ranks in daoc but it isn't.

You don't get high RR in daoc by being an idiot or getting a lot roll on hand of rag in a raid. You get it over a really long time, and typically through working with a good group of players. READ SKILL, you have to have some skill and dedication to get high RR.

Any noob in WoW who knows how to join a raid can get all epics in a few months and dominate you. Items are everything in WoW. It isn't the classes that ruin pvp in wow it's the items.

There is a very good reason there are AF and DPS caps in daoc. It's called balance, I prefer game were skill wins not the person with the best items.

Leveling in general
----------------------
ummm, I think I already talked about this

these days daoc is faster to level in if you know how to do it.
You can't powerlevel in wow at all really, but the leveling in wow is less tedious overall I think.

PVP System
--------------
PVP in wow sucks.

If you play on a PVP server it means you can attack and be attacked in contested zones. Prior to the battleground there was actually world pvp going on. But once the battlegrounds were added no one pvps in the world except 60 rogues who like to 1 shot noobs who are doing pve. This is in fact not a lie, if you pve in Red Ridge mountains on a pvp server expect to get ganked by level 60 horde.

WoW offers 3 battleground, Warsong Gulch (WSG), Arathi Basin(AB), and Alterac Valley(AV).

WSG, this is a capture the flag game. You earn honor and reputation/faction. for playing. If you lose you still get rep and honor just not as much. Once you have high enough rep with the WSG people you can purchase rare/epic items from their faction vendor.

For the most part playing in WSG pugs is very painful because there are a few classes that really excel at the game. Druids and Shaman mainly and to a lesser extent the paladin as a from of flag carrier support.

AB is a resource gathering game, thing of WarCraft gathering lumber. gold, etc. 1st one to 2000 resources wins. Just like WSG you get rep and honor to winning or losing and can buy rares/epics from the faction vendor when you have enough.

AV is a war, it's 40vs40, and is the same as WSG and AB in terms of rep/honor and buying rewards. This game isn't even remotely balanced. Horde has many advantages when it comes to the layout of their base.

There is also a rank system. there are 14 levels and you go up and down in the ranks depending on how must honor you farmed compared to everyone else on your realm in a given week. overall the system is horrable. Depending on the server you are on you could be facing 60+ hours of honor farming a week to get the highest ranks. And as I said before you lose 20% of you rating every weeks. So if you take a break from your grind you'll de-rank.

each rank has some rewards you can buy.

Battlegrounds in WoW are all about farming rep and honor to get items. On the alliance server I'm on we never win AV (unless an organized group is formed) and people are content to lose and get the little but of rep and then start the game. Basically WoW rewards losers.

DAOC rvr has it's fair share of issues but I can tell you taking relics has a real impact on the game. When you get realm ranks it means something and it isn't something that's easy to get. and certainly, unlike AV, it isn't something you can get by doing AFK.

DAOC is a much better system when it comes to pvp. IT has meaning and while it's mostly about rp farming for a lot of people it isn't quite as lame as WoW battlegrounds.

One of the problems with DAOC though is that the RVR, in the past, could just turn into huge zergs. Unlike the battle grounds in WoW which are instanced and have player caps on them.

I haven't played Darkness Rising I think I read something about instanced battlegrounds there, I'm not sure. Just keep in mind in a 3 way war with no caps the population problems on a cluster/server can become real game play issues. You could easily be outnumbered by huge margins and no tactics will save you.

PVP Rewards
---------------

De-ranking has to be the lamest thing in WoW pvp. I much prefer DAOC rank system.

WoW has a lot of cool epic rare items you can get through rank or faction with the battlegrounds. I do like this system. However this is equivalent to the Realm Abilities system in daoc which is also cool.

Developers
-------------
Personally I think the Mythic developers couldn't balance a game of checkers. But they created a monster of a game to try and balance. Their public relations people do a good job. Overall I think they're fine.

In the past they did a really bad job game balance, they would tend to over-nerf things into the ground. This typically happened after really long periods on inaction on their part and a lot of bitching by the players.

The WoW developers don't really have all the complexities of daoc to balance, and they have proved they will do what they want not what the whining masses want. A+ in my book.

Community
-------------
daoc >>> wow

wow is no better then b.net, just read the forums it will make you sick.

Conclusion
------------
meh...
If you have fun, keep playing.

I'm considering going back to daoc for the rvr. WoW's end game doesn't appeal to me.

RJCox · February 2006

Originally posted by spraguep
I've never really thought about this much, I've always had more fun in WoW and that was my justification for staying with it. However, now that I'm bored sick of WoW I think I can look back and compare them.I have four level 60s in WoW, 2 on a pve and 2 on a pvp server. All are alliance.
I have 4 DAOC accounts, 2 60 shaman, 1 healer RR8.5, 60 Zerk, SM, Savage, and WarriorI think I'll try and compare them in specific categories.

Max level in DAoC is 50, not 60.

Races
Classes
New Player Experience
UI/Scripting/Macros
Questing
PVE Content
Raid Content
Itemization
Leveling in general
PVP System
PVP Rewards
Developers
CommunityRaces
-----------------------------------------------------
WoW:
Alliance: humans, gnomes, dwarfs, night elves
Horde: undead, tauren, orcs, trolls for hordeDAOC has a lot more race options spread of the 3 realms:
Albion: Briton, Saracen, Avalonian, Highlander, Inconnu, Half Ogre
Hibernia: Celt, Lurikeen, Firbolg, Elf, Sylvan, Shar
Midgard: Kobold, Dwarf, Norse, Troll, Valkyn, Frostalf6 of these races for DAOC are from the SI expansion pack. WoW has yet to release their 1st expansion but it will have 2 new races from what I understand.Race choices in both games limits the classes you can pick. DAOC races have predefines starting stats that make the races unique; for example Midgard Trolls start with 100 strength. You can then distribute 30 points into your characters stats: strength, constitution, dexterity, quickness, intelligence, empathy, piety, charisma.In terms of customizing your character WoW and DAOC were about the same, WoW has slightly more options. Mythic's catacombs expansion added a lot more options for customizing your characters look; mostly in the face. I think with catacombs you can also change some of these options post-character creation like your hair.Unlike DAOC, WoW races get unique passive abilities and 1 unique active ability. But you don't get to customize the starting races in any way other then visually in wow.This is both a good and bad thing. Many of the stats in daoc are useless for a lot of classes and prior to catacombs the UI didn't even hint at what you should put your points into. WoW simple skips this all together. In the end the 30 points you're give are mostly meaningless, your spell crafted armor and artifacts will help to cap everything out anyway.

Actually only 1 race per realm (3 total), the Inconnu, Valkyn and Sylvan were added in Shrouded Isles. The other 3 (again, 1 per realm), the Shar, Frostalf and Half-Ogre were added with Trials of Atlantis. Otherwise, good writeup on the races.

Classes
-----------------------------------------------------
For WoW:
Warrior, Priest, Mage, Hunter, Warlock, RogueHorde unique is Shaman
Alliance unique is PaladinFor DAOC:
Albion has: Armsman, Mercenary, Paladin, Reaver, Sorcerer, Cabalist, Wizard, Theurgist, Cleric, Friar, Scout, Infiltrator, Minstrel, NecromancerHibernia: Hero, Champion, Blademaster, Enchanter, Mentalist, Eldritch, Bard, Druid, Warden, Ranger, Nightshade, Animist, ValewalkerMidgard: Warrior, Thane, Skald, Berserker, Savage, Healer, Shaman, Runemaster, Spiritmaster, Bonedancer, Hunter, ShadowbladeClearly daoc has a lot more diversity which is generally a good thing. However I can tell you from all my years in daoc it is also the root of a lot of fighting and flame wars. Mythic has a really hard time balancing all of these classes and most of the classes are unique to the point that they do not have a direct parallel to another class in another realm. Necro, Animists, and Bonedancers for instance.WoW has less variety but also has an easier time balancing the classes. This of course doesn't mean WoW is balanced at all, it just means it "should" be easier.

Overall good writeup on the classes.

New Player Experience
-----------------------------------------------------
Back in the day the starting experience for daoc was BAD, enough said. Catacombs added tons of quest and noob areas to get you started. The Camelot herald also has information on just about every aspect of the game these days. IT also has a new player guide: http://www.camelotherald.com/section.php?id=27Doc has also started to mimic a lot of the features in WoW to help with this. WoW has a much easier interface to start with, and the starting areas are very small with a simple linear quest sequence to go through. You don't need to spec in anything or have a deep understand of your class to prevent gimping yourself. My understanding is that DAOC has added a full respec at level 5 when you pick your classes so get around this.I'll keep touching on this subject as I go. But I think WoW is a clear winner for the noobs.

You also get free respecs at 20 and 40 so even if you gimp your toon along the way there are "get out of jail free cards" along the way. A lot has been done to improve the newbie game in recent patches. I wouldn't say that it is mimicing WoW, it is simply following direct feedback from new players about what they would like to see or what could be done better.

UI/Scripting/Macros
-----------------------------------------------------DAOC has a XML driven UI, it's mostly for skinning only, you can create new window but for the most part you can't do anything new. The XML components hook into predefined data supplied that Mythic has supplied you with. There is no client side scripting.Doc does support an in-game /macro command, and you can use /keybind (i think) to bind just about any key to any bar/slot.I think the daoc UI is clean and simple. Some of the widgets they used were kind of poor, such as items with really long names going right off the end of the vault/bank window. The UI could also be kind of sluggish if your computer wasn't all that fast.WoW, offers total control of your UI through lua scripting. It also has in-game macros and the ability to bind every bar/slot to just about any key/mouse button you want. I think the default UIs for both games are about the same in usability. WoW is far more powerful and extensible though.

The DAoC UI is also going on 5 years old now, compare it to other UIs from that time and it stands out imo. That being said I'll be the first to admit that it needs some work and needs to be brought up to date. It is definitely on our to-do list though!

Questing
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WoW is designed for questing, that's what the PVE in WoW is all about. I think there are over 3500 quests in WoW. The questing system in wow is very friendly to noobs and players in general. You can see visually how hard the quest is, what you need to do, what the reward is, you can even link the reward right form you quest log, you can share quests with your group members, and for the most part the quest information isn't vague or confusing. WoW also has a visual system so you can see who has a quest for you, who will have a quest for you in the future, who is expecting you to turn a quest in to them.Granted have big orange question marks floating in the air can make the game seem kind of cheesy
However this is easy for noobs, Also a nice feature is that an NPC you need to turn a quest into will show up as a yellow dot on the mini map.DAOC, prior to catacombs, had a quest system that was clearly derived from the stone age of MUDS. You would need to /say words in white or click the word to progress NPC interaction. In a way this might make it feel more real to some people, I found it annoying, Often times the NPCs would give poor information or no information on how to finish the quest, and there was no indication of how hard the quest was or what your reward would be. The system flat out sucked.Catacombs has pulled from ideas from WoW and added a lot more quests (around 400 I think). I can't really recall that much else about it, NPC has a yellow glow around their feet when they have a quest for you.Overall I still wasn't impressed with the catacombs quest system. WoW is king of questing.Often I hear that the quests in WoW are almost all the time etc. The same is true for DAOC, and every other RPG I've played. You need to go talk to someone, collect some items, kill something or someone, etc. They all suffer from the same problem, how do you make hundreds of unique quests?On of the things about WoW is that most of the quests can be done solo, This makes that game casual friendly. The quests also tend to not take more than 30 minutes in general and you get a reward for you time, XP and coin/items. This is very position and help to keep a lot of players addicted, it makes you feel like you are making progress.DAOC doesn't have that same feeling, I'm not sure why. Perhaps I was already burned out on the "quest" from WoW when I was play catacombs. WoW just feels like it has a lot more positive reenforcement built into it's questing system.One thing is for sure you can get to level 60 in WoW without ever grind on mobs; if you want to you can and in some cases it's faster XP, but you don't need to.DAOC, even with catacombs, this isn't true, you will have to grind. However this isn't a huge deal anymore because you can grind task dungeons for massive amounts of XP. OR get powerleveled in a pbae group, I think you can get a 50 in something like 3 days in modernagrav/midgard with an SM group.

I think a lot of people confuse stuff being "casual friendly" with "handing everything to you on a silver platter"... Yeah, same with the UI, the quest system is going on 5 years old, older if you count development time. It needs to be brought up to date, but I don't think it is nearly as bad as you made it out to be. And you are just flat out wrong about "HAVING" to grind in DAoC, you don't.

PVE Content/Raid Content
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DAOC has release 3 expansion: SI, TOA, and DR. While there are more zones overall in daoc 1 player isn't going to experience them all unless they are playing 3 different characters on 3 different servers. WoW has a ton of PVE content, it's what the game is really all about. Yes there are pvp servers and battleground, but they don't even compare to daoc ppvp :)I'm not going to write to much here because with 3 expansions daoc has a lot of raid and instanced dungeons now. Given that WoW has released entire new raid dungeons in content pages it's only a matter of time before WoW blows clear past daoc.

You mention the 3 paid expansions, but just like WoW, DAoC has also added in content for free in regular patches and updates. There were also "free expasions" as well which added the Housing system, redesigned the Frontiers, etc. If by "only a matter of time" you mean "a dang long time down the road" then yeah, WoW might pass DAoC in terms of content at some point.

Itemization
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WoW is all about items, in fact the end game in WoW is really about farming items in raid dungeons. There are many many items. DAOC doesn't even close, which is a good thing really, TOA was all about items and pve raiding and it's considered to be the downfall of daoc for many players. This is why the classic servers, with no TOA enabled, were released.If you were into farming items in Diablo 2 then WoW is you thing, If you want balanced pvp then daoc is your thing.Once classes in WoW hit 60 their only method to grow and become more powerful is through items. This basically destroys the end game pvp.For instance warriors, wearing all epic will shred any other warrior 1-on-1. In a way you could consider this high vs. low realm ranks in daoc but it isn't. You don't get high RR in daoc by being an idiot or getting a lot roll on hand of rag in a raid. You get it over a really long time, and typically through working with a good group of players. READ SKILL, you have to have some skill and dedication to get high RR.Any noob in WoW who knows how to join a raid can get all epics in a few months and dominate you. Items are everything in WoW. It isn't the classes that ruin pvp in wow it's the items.There is a very good reason there are AF and DPS caps in daoc. It's called balance, I prefer game were skill wins not the person with the best items.

ToA was primarily considered bad by most players because of the timesink involved and the number of people required to get anything accomplished. Not because of the items themselves. Basically it required a LOT of time invested to get a character "ToA'd". It also required LARGE numbers of people on a raid to get it done. This of course favored the people who could play 18 hours a day and who were in a 500 person guild. Recent changes to ToA have all but removed these complaints, as can be evidenced by the sharp decline in the Classic Server populations.

Leveling in general
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ummm, I think I already talked about this :pthese days daoc is faster to level in if you know how to do it.
You can't powerlevel in wow at all really, but the leveling in wow is less tedious overall I think.

Yeah, I agree for the most part. I don't think leveling is a grind or hard at all in DAoC, but on the same note I don't think everything is handed to you on a silver platter like in WoW. There's still a sense of accomplishment when you level in DAoC, but not a feeling like you had to "work" for it...

PVP System
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PVP in wow sucks. :)If you play on a PVP server it means you can attack and be attacked in contested zones. Prior to the battleground there was actually world pvp going on. But once the battlegrounds were added no one pvps in the world except 60 rogues who like to 1 shot noobs who are doing pve. This is in fact not a lie, if you pve in Red Ridge mountains on a pvp server expect to get ganked by level 60 horde.WoW offers 3 battleground, Warsong Gulch (WSG), Arathi Basin(AB), and Alterac Valley(AV).WSG, this is a capture the flag game. You earn honor and reputation/faction. for playing. If you lose you still get rep and honor just not as much. Once you have high enough rep with the WSG people you can purchase rare/epic items from their faction vendor.For the most part playing in WSG pugs is very painful because there are a few classes that really excel at the game. Druids and Shaman mainly and to a lesser extent the paladin as a from of flag carrier support.AB is a resource gathering game, thing of WarCraft gathering lumber. gold, etc. 1st one to 2000 resources wins. Just like WSG you get rep and honor to winning or losing and can buy rares/epics from the faction vendor when you have enough.AV is a war, it's 40vs40, and is the same as WSG and AB in terms of rep/honor and buying rewards. This game isn't even remotely balanced. Horde has many advantages when it comes to the layout of their base.There is also a rank system. there are 14 levels and you go up and down in the ranks depending on how must honor you farmed compared to everyone else on your realm in a given week. overall the system is horrable. Depending on the server you are on you could be facing 60+ hours of honor farming a week to get the highest ranks. And as I said before you lose 20% of you rating every weeks. So if you take a break from your grind you'll de-rank.

each rank has some rewards you can buy.Battlegrounds in WoW are all about farming rep and honor to get items. On the alliance server I'm on we never win AV (unless an organized group is formed) and people are content to lose and get the little but of rep and then start the game. Basically WoW rewards losers.DAOC rvr has it's fair share of issues but I can tell you taking relics has a real impact on the game. When you get realm ranks it means something and it isn't something that's easy to get. and certainly, unlike AV, it isn't something you can get by doing AFK.DAOC is a much better system when it comes to pvp. IT has meaning and while it's mostly about rp farming for a lot of people it isn't quite as lame as WoW battlegrounds.One of the problems with DAOC though is that the RVR, in the past, could just turn into huge zergs. Unlike the battle grounds in WoW which are instanced and have player caps on them.I haven't played Darkness Rising I think I read something about instanced battlegrounds there, I'm not sure. Just keep in mind in a 3 way war with no caps the population problems on a cluster/server can become real game play issues. You could easily be outnumbered by huge margins and no tactics will save you.

The Battlegrounds in DAoC have nothing to do with Darkness Rising. They've been in the game for years now, basically they're mini frontier-like zones that are level restrictive. They allow the lower levels to experience the RvR experience in a fair area against members of the opposing realms of their same level. They are split every 5 levels or so; 1-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24, 25-29, 30-34, 35-39, 40-44.

PVP Rewards
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De-ranking has to be the lamest thing in WoW pvp. I much prefer DAOC rank system. WoW has a lot of cool epic rare items you can get through rank or faction with the battlegrounds. I do like this system. However this is equivalent to the Realm Abilities system in daoc which is also cool.

I don't really think you can compare the two systems they're so dissimilar, but yeah, I agree for the most part.

Developers
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Personally I think the Mythic developers couldn't balance a game of checkers. But they created a monster of a game to try and balance. Their public relations people do a good job. Overall I think they're fine.In the past they did a really bad job game balance, they would tend to over-nerf things into the ground. This typically happened after really long periods on inaction on their part and a lot of bitching by the players.The WoW developers don't really have all the complexities of daoc to balance, and they have proved they will do what they want not what the whining masses want. A+ in my book.

Well, when all the classes on each side have all the same stuff (with the exception of one "unique" class per side) it makes things really easy to battle. The thing most people fail to keep in mind about DAoC is that it is for the most part balanced on a Realm level not on an individual class vs class level. And I can't help but to boggle at the fact that you prefer Devs who balanced based on what THEY want to do as opposed to what the players of the game, what their community feels needs to be done. Yes, the community can occasionally get whiney and be wrong, but thats with any game, its the Devs job to determine when they have a legitimate gripe compared to when they're just whining. Generally if you have a LARGE portion of your playerbase complaining about one specific class or ability it warrants at least looking into.

Community
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daoc >>> wow
wow is no better then b.net, just read the forums it will make you sick.

Nothing to add here!

Conclusion
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meh...
If you have fun, keep playing.I'm considering going back to daoc for the rvr. WoW's end game doesn't appeal to me.

Overall a very good writeup, just a couple minor issues here and there.

r0hn · February 2006

I posted this as part of a message on the general discussion forum. These are my random thoughts comparing the 2 games.

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WoW is like DAOC II. I think WoW is pretty good, and is alot less complicated then DAOC. WoW has some depth, maybe not as much as DAOC, but crafting in WoW is way easier. Leveling 1-60 in WoW and Leveling 1-50 in DAOC is about the same, DAOC maybe a bit quicker since the changes to it. WoW has alot more to do on the way to 60. Groups are much easier to find for PVE. WoW is also solo friendly.

I think of task dungeons in DAOC as quests in WoW. The difference is, WoW quests take you all over the world almost like a guide, and DAOC task dungeons are the same thing over and over.

A difference between between WoW and DAOC is, in DAOC everyone is in a great big hurry to get to level 50. WoW I find I'm not in a big hurry to get to 60 and can enjoy the leveling trip along the way.

JulianDracos · February 2006

Originally posted by r0hn
I posted this as part of a message on the general discussion forum. These are my random thoughts comparing the 2 games.
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WoW is like DAOC II. I think WoW is pretty good, and is alot less complicated then DAOC. WoW has some depth, maybe not as much as DAOC, but crafting in WoW is way easier. Leveling 1-60 in WoW and Leveling 1-50 in DAOC is about the same, DAOC maybe a bit quicker since the changes to it. WoW has alot more to do on the way to 60. Groups are much easier to find for PVE. WoW is also solo friendly.
I think of task dungeons in DAOC as quests in WoW. The difference is, WoW quests take you all over the world almost like a guide, and DAOC task dungeons are the same thing over and over.
A difference between between WoW and DAOC is, in DAOC everyone is in a great big hurry to get to level 50. WoW I find I'm not in a big hurry to get to 60 and can enjoy the leveling trip along the way.

In order to be DAOC 2, WoW would need RvR which is does not have.

While it might be true that more people are concerned with getting to 50 as quick as possible in DAOC and not in WoW probably has more to do with the fact that once you reach 60 in WoW there is nothing else to do.

Perhaps people in DAOC do want to get to 50 ASAP, but I tend not to find that. They want to level quickly, but it is to a certain level. Level to 24 quickly and then hit the BG until you cap. Then level to 34 and go out to the BG, then level to 39 for some more BG action, then level to 44 and stay there until you are RR3-RR4. Then level to 50. If not, then unless you have a good group you will put yourself at a disadvantage in RvR.

lewl · February 2006

Wow has so much better marketing. They have adds that tie in with music starts and soft drinks. They must be flooding Gamespuy with cash because the whole site its totally all about WoW.

And their intro movie is amazing. Its totally cool and nothing like the real game. The advertising is so cool.

DAoC's marketing is kinda lame. Only a few site know about it there are not comercial on TV and their intro movie is just like the game. Its not fictionalized at all.

RJCox · February 2006

If I were someone looking at both games knowing nothing about it I would rather watch a trailer that actually has something to do with the game, not some pretty piece of eye-candy fiction put together. It might not be as pretty but it actually shows me what is in store for me in the game. And I actually believe the Euro trailer that was put together is absolutely amazing. IMO every bit as pretty as the WoW trailer and still actually showing what the game is like...

Majid_yahya · February 2006

I would work for mythic yet I hate having to always defend what has been said in the past. The best way to find out if you like a game is to play it yourself.

I have played Pretty much every game that mythic has put out. I will continue to do so because I like the way they handle the games they make.

Yes they have bad things yes they have good things.

All of the online RPG games that are out now some what share diffrent things from one another and sometimes more so then others.

The main thing is that you find something you like and you stick with it. So many times in the past that I have found is that once you play a game and then after two weeks you stop it seems as if you lost osmething.

Just remember that the key to games is that you have fun and enjoy what your playing.

Faulty · February 2006

http://camelot-europe.goa.com/en/index.htm

That is said trailer. It is pretty awesome, although the mass RvR scene isn't anything like real RvR. No people hiding in buildings and ambushing for all I know. (Haven't been to NF yet though).

lewl · February 2006

Yeah thats a cool video. I like playning in those 'city' towers. I would there were more terain like that it would be cool.

Heres the WoW one. I am told the graphics aren't anywhere near as cool:

http://bigmandan.com/Files/Video/WoW/WOW_Intro_1024.avi

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