Originally posted by C0mat0sis i wanna know who had the 10,000 to just drop of a game thats not even in Alpha. $10,000 for a video game that is just beyond nuts.
Someone that:
A) Inherited a lot of money from parents ( basically kid from rich family )
that earns anywhere between 100k - 200k per year
C) Someone that had given up hope in finding a good MMO and throws everything they think its good
Originally posted by C0mat0sis i wanna know who had the 10,000 to just drop of a game thats not even in Alpha. $10,000 for a video game that is just beyond nuts.
Take a look at Star Citizen, people spent way more than that before there was anything to play. Heck there is a $325 price tag on a concept for a digital space ship (only for sale this week), and its selling very well. CIG have sold 2500 dollar ship concepts and sold out of them.
Single person investment of 10K is not that far fetched.
Originally posted by C0mat0sis i wanna know who had the 10,000 to just drop of a game thats not even in Alpha. $10,000 for a video game that is just beyond nuts.
Take a look at Star Citizen, people spent way more than that before there was anything to play. Heck there is a $325 price tag on a concept for a digital space ship (only for sale this week), and its selling very well. CIG have sold 2500 dollar ship concepts and sold out of them.
Single person investment of 10K is not that far fetched.
Sounds like i need to make a concept, and some zbrush generated model images then sell models of useless things to fools with coin for years.
An MMO fan and his money are often parted. In a few years there will be a lot of crying a fast majority of these projects fail.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
Originally posted by MMOman101 An MMO fan and his money are often parted. In a few years there will be a lot of crying a fast majority of these projects fail.
Unlike regular mmorpg's where everyone is super mega happy one month after release....
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Originally posted by Adjuvant1 Yeh, see, people are still considering it a "pre-order" and "hoping it will pay off". It's a donation? It's an investment? People aren't on the same page, here. People will just be pointing at each other in the end, saying, "you knew it was a donation" and other things in spiteful told-you-so rhetoric. I predict "No guarantees" and "See the disclaimer" will be popular phrases on this forum for the next couple years. What a sad state for the industry.
In reality kickstarts are something between a "pre-order" and a "donation".
1) If the game gets made and released then they are bound by what they promised in the pledge tiers. I would find it very hard for the developer to argue that the pledges were for something else.
2) If the game doesn't get made they are not liable to to provide refunds nor such.
I wouldn't find it impossible to raise a case against them if you pledged 5k+ or gather a mass-claim against them but then you would have to prove that the kickstart was a scam and not that "things went south".
This is why I would not spend more than 50$/€ on any kickstarter no matter how viable it sounds. After all YOU carry the risk for the kickstart.
First of all, anyone can file a lawsuit against anyone... whether it makes it to a judge or not is another story. Lawsuits like these can take years to ever hit the docket. Are you going to spend $10,000 to get $150 back? I don't think so. Then you have to also remember that if they have no assets, you'll be awarded nothing.
Second, there is no kickstarter police that will go and arrest these people. It's like thinking the Better Business Bureau has any legal authority whatsoever... they don't. The only real watchdog of your money is you. If you think for one millisecond that this may turn out bad, then don't give them your money. Assume the worst the moment you click enter... I just randomly sent $150 to some guy out on the internet and there is no way to get it back. You can accept that, you can accept the concept of the kickstarter.
It is a risk. That is why I have never backed any Kickstarter, ever, until now.
Let me bring out an example: Camelot Unchained. That could actually be a scam. Mark Jacobs "said" he put in X amount of money and their project hasn't even moved forward. Also, he got fired from EA. He is not trustworthy.
Now lets look at Crowfall. The top people are well known with many different companies with many different games. They also sold their games in the past and didn't try to stay with them (like the con Mark Jacobs did). That has to have a feeling of lesser risk. Especially since they have told us (and even shown on twitch) they are actually building a game the right way.
In the past I saw many other games have Kickstarters. I knew each would burn their playerbase. I was right.
I backed this one because Crowfall has an allstar team behind it. They have Shadowbane behind them. They have UO behind them. They have Warden. The one person who invented "Play to Crush".
This is an Allstar team. If they screw this game up there is no hope and we should all play WoW.
I have seen many kickstarters and have backed none until I saw this. I pledged $60 dollars because this seems way interesting than any other MMO in development.
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
My first kickstarter as well and its the right game to begin with
Pledging for the Amber teir for 6 years membership as well as a lot of other cool stuff. But above all its a design I can get behind especially with Koster as their guide.
Other devs pledging too, Chris Roberts from Star Citizen, Dave Geogeson from EQ/Landmark, Some guy from SWTOR can't remember...
My first kickstarter as well and its the right game to begin with
Pledging for the Amber teir for 6 years membership as well as a lot of other cool stuff. But above all its a design I can get behind especially with Koster as their guide.
Other devs pledging too, Chris Roberts from Star Citizen, Dave Geogeson from EQ/Landmark, Some guy from SWTOR can't remember...
If more people did this we would have Combat Pets! Would love to emulate my DAoC druid in Crowfall. I do miss him but I don't trust Mark Jacobs at all. Plus Crowfall is well ahead of them and may release before they do.
In the past I saw many other games have Kickstarters. I knew each would burn their playerbase. I was right.
I backed this one because Crowfall has an allstar team behind it. They have Shadowbane behind them. They have UO behind them. They have Warden. The one person who invented "Play to Crush".
This is an Allstar team. If they screw this game up there is no hope and we should all play WoW.
Sooo, you think allstars don't want paychecks?? That fact that they are lying saying they need money to build the game then before the kickstarter is even done taking out 10's of thousands of dollars in full page month long adds all over the internet to try and con... ur convince more people to give their poor game stubio more money (perhaps to pay for more advertising) Doesn't throw up any red flags to you?
I was going to give this game a shot, until I saw that it will be gender locked.
Really?
Which Archetype that is locked would be an issue for you?
Would you rather have 5 more Archetypes (Classes) or have the option for male/female Minotaurs & Guinea Pigs?
Essentially this, as most people don't seem to understand the concept of lore and context followed by indie and limited budget. I'm sure it is important to have a female bull (what?) and male rodent in the game where we won't even see genitals. Nearly every humanoid class has both male and female, save for the Amazon like class that kills off it's males at birth and or after breeding.
This is why people that have the ability to post on the front page have an obligation to be responsible and not become so sensationalist with titles. Most of the article on this site was tripe clinging in desperation to a topic that had no relevance when it came to Crowfall. Yes, I'm in support of no gender locking when it makes sense or when the company can certainly afford. No, I don't believe a new franchise should already be breaking or retconing established lore, especially not when it will be a detriment to the game's development or at the expense of other classes.
People don't even read the articles, or follow up on any assertions made. Which leads to people thinking every class is gender locked, and not just a male bull or rodent that could be unisex. It seems more like a personal-agenda argument as a whole than anything else regarding the actual video game; a sniper piece on a trending game. It even acknowledged the issue of budgets, but implied it would be okay to ignore money and or skimp out on other features in the game for a female bull (again, what?).
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Parepin
In the past I saw many other games have Kickstarters. I knew each would burn their playerbase. I was right.
I backed this one because Crowfall has an allstar team behind it. They have Shadowbane behind them. They have UO behind them. They have Warden. The one person who invented "Play to Crush".
This is an Allstar team. If they screw this game up there is no hope and we should all play WoW.
Sooo, you think allstars don't want paychecks?? That fact that they are lying saying they need money to build the game then before the kickstarter is even done taking out 10's of thousands of dollars in full page month long adds all over the internet to try and con... ur convince more people to give their poor game stubio more money (perhaps to pay for more advertising) Doesn't throw up any red flags to you?
It's the responsibility of someone to do research on a company and kickstarter before investing. This is very much a "welcome to the real world" if people get scammed out of something. That said, in doing said research, one would've taken away (very easily) that they received 2.3 million just last year to both promote and build their vision. If one doesn't understand that money makes money, and the whole point of kickstarter is to give the developer the ability to make the game (and therefore have a responsibility to both make the game and continue its ongoing need for more funds to make it the best game possible for its investors... which are mainly the crowd in crowdfunded games) then that's not the fault of the real world or those who deem it risky investment in the hands of proven creators. It's the problem of cynics who do not think to do research before making assertions, who fall back on "well, these other games"... as a basis for a game and team that has nothing to do with said "other games".
Personally -- and for the sake of full disclosure -- I've backed about seven games on Kickstarter to date. I'm exceedingly happy with each and every one that has come out, or in the process of such. I'm well informed by them, get provided multiple streams and or videos and have played the released versions as the entertaining games they are. I did my research on each of them, the background of developers, what they have so far, their website, how they hope to get even more funds (for anyone who thinks most kickstarter funds alone is enough for most things is, in my opinion, a fool... which makes me scratch my head at people who complain about adds used from their previous 2.3 millions to make a website and hire a marketing team to be able to get Crowfall to the #1 anticipated slot, as well as on this site to promote their kickstarter campaign. It's like... someone says "all stars expect pay checks" (as a direct quote, but by no means an all encompassing assertion as I mean to generalize a feeling and not just single response or thought) but then implies condemnation of them making money to pay for the assets (and developers are assets) to make the game they say will fail because they don't have any way of making money... when advertisement is a clear way, as well as the other ventures they talked about if one did research.
I... what... huh?
All people have to say that investing in an unmade game is risky. No need for weak assertions about the people or company that -- more than likely -- the person in question did little research on to begin with.
Originally posted by mmoguy43
My first kickstarter as well and its the right game to begin with
Pledging for the Amber teir for 6 years membership as well as a lot of other cool stuff. But above all its a design I can get behind especially with Koster as their guide.
Other devs pledging too, Chris Roberts from Star Citizen, Dave Geogeson from EQ/Landmark, Some guy from SWTOR can't remember...
It's typical of friends of devs to back their games. Especially if said developers are known and proven. Though it does bid confidence in those who believe in the backers, if they see someone they trust, trust another game that's being developed. Advice is usually always given in some capacity, as well.
Also, remember everyone! Money grows on trees. Marketing is not effective. Once a game developer goes to kickstarter, THEY SHOULD NOT. EVER. Seek out other means to get money. Especially not proven ways to go about such. Because reasons. Also, random people on the interwebs who imply it's cheesy to do so. Once they take kickstarter money, they're obligated to use only that money to make the game; they're certainly not obligated to try their best and make it the best game possible by seeking other assets during it's creation (sarcasm aside, which IS a part of game development).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
In the past I saw many other games have Kickstarters. I knew each would burn their playerbase. I was right.
I backed this one because Crowfall has an allstar team behind it. They have Shadowbane behind them. They have UO behind them. They have Warden. The one person who invented "Play to Crush".
This is an Allstar team. If they screw this game up there is no hope and we should all play WoW.
Sooo, you think allstars don't want paychecks?? That fact that they are lying saying they need money to build the game then before the kickstarter is even done taking out 10's of thousands of dollars in full page month long adds all over the internet to try and con... ur convince more people to give their poor game stubio more money (perhaps to pay for more advertising) Doesn't throw up any red flags to you?
Everyone wants paychecks for their work. This wont be someones pet garage project that they do after real job.
I always have spots for people who want to work for free. Its really surprising noone ever asked for it lol
I am heavily thinking to support them too. Made this in two or three other games so far and the results are mostly poor. But this one seems very promising.
Comments
Someone that:
A) Inherited a lot of money from parents ( basically kid from rich family )
C) Someone that had given up hope in finding a good MMO and throws everything they think its good
D.. ?
So What Now?
Take a look at Star Citizen, people spent way more than that before there was anything to play. Heck there is a $325 price tag on a concept for a digital space ship (only for sale this week), and its selling very well. CIG have sold 2500 dollar ship concepts and sold out of them.
Single person investment of 10K is not that far fetched.
Sounds like i need to make a concept, and some zbrush generated model images then sell models of useless things to fools with coin for years.
--John Ruskin
Unlike regular mmorpg's where everyone is super mega happy one month after release....
It is a risk. That is why I have never backed any Kickstarter, ever, until now.
Let me bring out an example: Camelot Unchained. That could actually be a scam. Mark Jacobs "said" he put in X amount of money and their project hasn't even moved forward. Also, he got fired from EA. He is not trustworthy.
Now lets look at Crowfall. The top people are well known with many different companies with many different games. They also sold their games in the past and didn't try to stay with them (like the con Mark Jacobs did). That has to have a feeling of lesser risk. Especially since they have told us (and even shown on twitch) they are actually building a game the right way.
I have seen many kickstarters and have backed none until I saw this. I pledged $60 dollars because this seems way interesting than any other MMO in development.
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
My first kickstarter as well and its the right game to begin with
Pledging for the Amber teir for 6 years membership as well as a lot of other cool stuff. But above all its a design I can get behind especially with Koster as their guide.
Other devs pledging too, Chris Roberts from Star Citizen, Dave Geogeson from EQ/Landmark, Some guy from SWTOR can't remember...
If more people did this we would have Combat Pets! Would love to emulate my DAoC druid in Crowfall. I do miss him but I don't trust Mark Jacobs at all. Plus Crowfall is well ahead of them and may release before they do.
I was going to give this game a shot, until I saw that it will be gender locked.
Really?Which Archetype that is locked would be an issue for you?
Would you rather have 5 more Archetypes (Classes) or have the option for male/female Minotaurs & Guinea Pigs?
Sooo, you think allstars don't want paychecks?? That fact that they are lying saying they need money to build the game then before the kickstarter is even done taking out 10's of thousands of dollars in full page month long adds all over the internet to try and con... ur convince more people to give their poor game stubio more money (perhaps to pay for more advertising) Doesn't throw up any red flags to you?
Essentially this, as most people don't seem to understand the concept of lore and context followed by indie and limited budget. I'm sure it is important to have a female bull (what?) and male rodent in the game where we won't even see genitals. Nearly every humanoid class has both male and female, save for the Amazon like class that kills off it's males at birth and or after breeding.
This is why people that have the ability to post on the front page have an obligation to be responsible and not become so sensationalist with titles. Most of the article on this site was tripe clinging in desperation to a topic that had no relevance when it came to Crowfall. Yes, I'm in support of no gender locking when it makes sense or when the company can certainly afford. No, I don't believe a new franchise should already be breaking or retconing established lore, especially not when it will be a detriment to the game's development or at the expense of other classes.
People don't even read the articles, or follow up on any assertions made. Which leads to people thinking every class is gender locked, and not just a male bull or rodent that could be unisex. It seems more like a personal-agenda argument as a whole than anything else regarding the actual video game; a sniper piece on a trending game. It even acknowledged the issue of budgets, but implied it would be okay to ignore money and or skimp out on other features in the game for a female bull (again, what?).
It's the responsibility of someone to do research on a company and kickstarter before investing. This is very much a "welcome to the real world" if people get scammed out of something. That said, in doing said research, one would've taken away (very easily) that they received 2.3 million just last year to both promote and build their vision. If one doesn't understand that money makes money, and the whole point of kickstarter is to give the developer the ability to make the game (and therefore have a responsibility to both make the game and continue its ongoing need for more funds to make it the best game possible for its investors... which are mainly the crowd in crowdfunded games) then that's not the fault of the real world or those who deem it risky investment in the hands of proven creators. It's the problem of cynics who do not think to do research before making assertions, who fall back on "well, these other games"... as a basis for a game and team that has nothing to do with said "other games".
Personally -- and for the sake of full disclosure -- I've backed about seven games on Kickstarter to date. I'm exceedingly happy with each and every one that has come out, or in the process of such. I'm well informed by them, get provided multiple streams and or videos and have played the released versions as the entertaining games they are. I did my research on each of them, the background of developers, what they have so far, their website, how they hope to get even more funds (for anyone who thinks most kickstarter funds alone is enough for most things is, in my opinion, a fool... which makes me scratch my head at people who complain about adds used from their previous 2.3 millions to make a website and hire a marketing team to be able to get Crowfall to the #1 anticipated slot, as well as on this site to promote their kickstarter campaign. It's like... someone says "all stars expect pay checks" (as a direct quote, but by no means an all encompassing assertion as I mean to generalize a feeling and not just single response or thought) but then implies condemnation of them making money to pay for the assets (and developers are assets) to make the game they say will fail because they don't have any way of making money... when advertisement is a clear way, as well as the other ventures they talked about if one did research.
I... what... huh?
All people have to say that investing in an unmade game is risky. No need for weak assertions about the people or company that -- more than likely -- the person in question did little research on to begin with.
It's typical of friends of devs to back their games. Especially if said developers are known and proven. Though it does bid confidence in those who believe in the backers, if they see someone they trust, trust another game that's being developed. Advice is usually always given in some capacity, as well.
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Also, remember everyone! Money grows on trees. Marketing is not effective. Once a game developer goes to kickstarter, THEY SHOULD NOT. EVER. Seek out other means to get money. Especially not proven ways to go about such. Because reasons. Also, random people on the interwebs who imply it's cheesy to do so. Once they take kickstarter money, they're obligated to use only that money to make the game; they're certainly not obligated to try their best and make it the best game possible by seeking other assets during it's creation (sarcasm aside, which IS a part of game development).
Everyone wants paychecks for their work. This wont be someones pet garage project that they do after real job.
I always have spots for people who want to work for free. Its really surprising noone ever asked for it lol