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Combat?
Reklaw
Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
I just watch the latest vid because I was curious to how combat was developing.https://www.pantheonrotf.com/pages/videos
While I feel the overall world they created seems to looking very good/great but I was rather disappointed when I saw the combat. I understand I might have been spoiled with the more action combat type of games but I also feel that when seeing Pantheon it's really a hugh step back in what combat could be today.
Will combat change allot since the game is still very early in development?, or are you perhaps satisfied with how combat is as it is right now with of course some minor tweaks?
Comments
I understand it will not be a action combat game.
But do you like it as it is or do you see room for improvements.
For example from the vids I saw I never really saw anyone making any impact on their enemy apart from healthdrops. Even Vanguard: SoH I felt to have more impact with my character.
I don't need Pantheon to have more action combat, yet I do feel it should atleast have a little more depth then tic tac combat.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I have the feeling those old concept videos don't reflect much about how Pantheon will be.
The best combat description is probably on the kickstarter page. They describe it as managing resources and having less active abilities at one time like in EQ. You decide what abilities you use in a given scenario. Beyond that I believe there will be combos, including some abilities that will chain off the abilities of other classes. Group combos.
And why even more wont touch it.
Action combat is shallow and fun for casual games based around reflex instead of traditional RPG skill systems and teamwork. It will always have a place in the genre, but it will never be more popular than it is right now when solo MMOs designed around convenience reign supreme.
Well said.
If resource management and others have properly noted, a harsh death penalty, is done right, non-twitch combat can be equally (or more exciting) than having a series of button mashing combos at specific intervals.
Where EQ vanilla needed to improve was with the classes themselves, not the combat style. The true melees and hybrids (and to a lesser extent wizards/mages) could be boring. They lacked the necessary resource management that was implemented along with the other classes. If you ever played an enchanter, necromancer, bard, shaman, druid, cleric in a group that was humming with constant pulls at EQlaunch or even P1999 now - combat was anything but boring or inactive.
Class uniqueness/roles become much more important with a game like Pantheon in order to ensure that combat isn't boring. If Warriors only have Taunt/Slam and Rogues only have Backstab on a timer like old EQ, then it will be a step back as you said.
But, it could be as simple as Warriors having Taunt/Slam with an endurance bar, and rogues having Backstab with an endurance bar and having to manage the endurance in order to be effective in groups. Don't spam taunt/backstab everytime it is up, because it's a finite resource, but, rather when necessary to add strategy to the combat.
What you are asking are not really tweaking the combat system, more like better animations and some partical effect, sound effect, etc.
Dont worry, they will add that. Dont get disappointed by this.
Because you're all playing extremely successful action MMOs, like TERA. Just because it went free to play in near record time, just because every other game like it (wildstar, Age of Conan, etc) also went free to play rather quickly doesn't indicate ANYTHING about the game type being popular or in demand right?
... right?
It really depends how they handle this combat in terms of abilities. If they base the combat on mostly auto-attacks or white damage, then it'll be a step backwards and rather dull in my opinion. However if they expand on the current ability spam system but make it more interesting while not encouraging button spam, then i'm all for it.
Action combat has no place in what this game is trying to do.
That's a good thing in my eyes. Those looking for a casual arcade type of game have droves to choose from. The slower paced combat will help develop friendships that most likely wouldn't in a spam fest of MMOs today.
I doubt it will be heavily based on auto attack, but auto attack will be there. From the games I've played without it, theres no good way around spammy combat without auto attack. Perfect example of this was Pathfinder Online. Instead of letting you spam abilities, you basically just stand there like an idiot for several seconds waiting for your stamina to go up in between abilities. Yay, you can't spam abilities, but now combat looks and feels clunky when all it needed was an autoattack.
You just supported his point. Its not a game for everyone and the developers don't care.....at all. Sounds like someone's feeling got hurt.
Oh no i completely agree with you. I dislike games without auto attack. What i don't want to see is EQ/FFXI levels of auto attacks where white damage makes up the majority of your damage. Something around 20-25% is acceptable.
I actually hope that auto attack exists for all classes, even if its a smaller portion of ones overall damage. You should be able to equip a wand or a bow and autoattack with them as a melee would with their primary weapon. Previously it was more important for a melee to auto attack because they had few abilities in EQ, but with every class having a variety of abilities, it really seems like a no brainer that everyone be able to continually put out some damage between other spells and skills.
Animations and sound I agree, no reall need for more partical effect unless they make sence from a magic stand point.
I do hope they will improve atleast in the 2 things I agree with.
I honostly like all sort of combat but it should be taken to a lvl of today's tech. Which doesn't mean it has to be action combat but from what I saw came close to looking almost turn based. You hit > Enemy hit > Your turn again....enemy's turn again. Side note I love turn based games but Panteon seems to be real time.
Atleast let it be somewhat better then Vanguards combat. Loved it back then......
I am not fan of combat system which tells me which button to press on next like EQ2 and somewhat VSoH had (via combos). I wished they had slightly different combat system, so it's me who needs to figure out which button to press on next depending on which situation I am in (and not the computer).
Combos actually didn't tell you what to do next. They gave you a bunch of options. If you crit, there was like 3 options, and each chain unlocked further options. As a disciple specifically, you had an option that did more damage, one that healed, and others that did stuff like debuff if I remember correctly.
The only problem I had with the Vanguard combat system was the lack of resource management compared to EQ. It promoted a combat system where you were always using special attacks in rapid succession rather than having to constantly weigh the importance of which ability to use.
Hmm... I updated my post around the time you made your reply.
I am not saying it was bad and so just that it could have been better. The combat system in VSoH is far better than most other MMOs have.
This sounds a bit like the Warden class from LOTRO. It was a versatile class, but it took skill to remember the useful combinations and then to apply them appropriately in battle. It wasn't instant either, you had to anticipate what you would need down the line and get the combo started early.
I wouldn't mind seeing a class with similar mechanics in Pantheon.
We might be referring to combos somewhat generically. In Vanguard there were "chains" which opened up when you crit offering different abilities. There were also combos though where if you used abilities in a certain order, it would produce a temporary buff or debuff that would last for a minute or two. Combos had to be discovered, and once you discovered them, they would be recorded in your skill page so you could look back to remember how to perform the combo.
I loved both systems.
I hope combat changes a bit. They are on the right track fundamentally.
What I would like to see is more varied a.i. ...group formations with different levels of intention. Some may flee, while others go strait for the opposing alignment player in the group and others may circle and protect and heal a specific boss. Maybe when low health run to get reinforcements.
I also liked the first pass at spell animations. Some looked great like the green bubbling, the skeleton hands from the ground, the red axes, and the tornado. Others looked a bit half thought through as they signified nothing. It should be easy now a days to make these sort of effects since they will not change after a certain level. I expect a healing splash of blue cast from a player into the air, then the same splash upon whoever they healed. All these little things need to feel as important as the others or it really won't feel like a game that has had enough time to cook (Polish).
Another thing I would like is various speeds of monster attacks. Some large and powerful np can may have a slower but more impactful attack versus a more agile creature quad hitting with an animation that at least simulates this so it feels more authentic.
Keep up the work....Will check back in another few months to see if combat has matured a bit.