Originally posted by tixylix Better be careful, 100k is a lot of players for WoW these days lol.
See, this is the logic I don't get. 100k will be a drop in the hat for Blizzard for years to come. 7 million players is still 7 MILLION players. On WoW. Just WoW. That's not looking at the rest of the company's games from Hearthstone to the profit they make from Destiny (remember House of Wolves? Right now?). HotS releases next month. Starcraft II is in beta for its next expansion. Smacking 100k players in WoW isn't anyhing to the company as a whole and it's not really anything to WoW, either.
What I find interesting is the idea this changes anything in a large way. It's 100k players. ...My home server has about 200k players and it's High Pop 8-16 hours of the day. 100k players across high/locked/med/low pop servers with cross-realm tech... doesn't scream a huge change to me.
6 months is a pretty good ban. Have you seen the kinda bans these other mmorpg companies issue for cheating/botting? 24/48 hours sometimes a week. Rarely do I see them perm ban somebody.
It should have been a perma ban. Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time. But I do agree that those accounts are going to be watched, for a very long time.
It looks very much like, even though Bossland won the court case, they actually lost the war, because now that anyone using their products stands to lose their accounts for 6 months, it won't be long before nobody dares use those products at all, effectively killing Bosslands user base, be interesting to see if this kind of thing spreads to other games.
Watch a video of these bots in action. PvP matches with 1-3 real people and everyone else a bot.
They should have gotten perma bans not only for cheating, but helping to ruin the game experience for everyone else.
The ONLY reason I can come up with as to why they didn't deserve perma bans was that Blizzard let these bots go on for so long that they were partly responsible for allowing so many to use them so they lessened the punishment. (There's no way that's what happened - I'm sure Blizzard thought they could get more money out of temp bans).
guys .... questing and leveling is for me one of the lamest excuses for content creation --- and this game has mostly nothing else, beside grinding for nothing .....
SO why would anyone use a Bot to kill even the last chance, where you can! maybe have a fun hour or so ??? Is Crafting that good in wow ?? are the conversations in chat a lifechanger ??
so blizzy ... pls ban them for ever! And all you high skilled worth for nothing bot used players .... pls stop playing this games :P there are too many of you already in every game ....
Watch a video of these bots in action. PvP matches with 1-3 real people and everyone else a bot.
They should have gotten perma bans not only for cheating, but helping to ruin the game experience for everyone else.
The ONLY reason I can come up with as to why they didn't deserve perma bans was that Blizzard let these bots go on for so long that they were partly responsible for allowing so many to use them so they lessened the punishment. (There's no way that's what happened - I'm sure Blizzard thought they could get more money out of temp bans).
Losing your account is a big thing, losing access to it for HALF A YEAR! is a huge loss for people, take those who were banned whose accounts are 10 years old, do you really think that a 6 month ban is not going to be considered a huge loss, never mind that some of them might suddenly find they have to explain to their parents why they have been banned from playing the game, probably with added punishments for them too
This measure will impact those players 'misbehavior' in a very severe way, and in 6 months time when they come back, all those statuses they achieved for PVP etc. will have been made worthless, not only that but their reputation will have been made dirty, they may even have to start over with a new character because of it.
As for Bossland, from now anything they make will be considered to be too risky to use, by targetting Bosslands products, Blizzard has effectively declared war on them, and Blizzard has way more coders etc than Bossland does, so everything that Bossland makes can be deconstructed so that its usage can be detected, and the user accounts flagged far faster than Bossland can create new varients, and Bossland just gave Blizzard 7 million reasons for doing just that.
Eh, you guys forget that banning people is not meant to punish these players, it's meant to make them reconsider and perhaps discourage future botters.
Being forced to start on a new account or not play for 6 months does just that. This is also why we don't cut people hands off for stealing any more in the real world - those crying for permabans have yet to grow out of the digital middle ages.
That said, I always smile when I see someone claim "I only botted once!!". I have been on support team for 2 years now in another game and no one, and I do mean no one, bots once, unless of course they do get caught 2 minutes after they start botting.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
Would really like to hear the reasoning behind the German judges' decision to side with Bossland, especially since they're clearly in the wrong.
My "in a nutshell" understanding is that the court basically told Activision Blizzard that they couldn't simply impose restrictions (via an EULA) e.g. not being allowed to use unapproved software.
We are thinking about Blizzard selling WoW, charging a sub and seeking to enfore an EULA.
What if you are a company - using business critical software that you have paid a lot of money for and have a lot invested in - and e.g. IBM or Oracle etc. etc. come along and say we have changed our terms and conditions and only approved HR software can be used with our products; only approved pay role software and so on. And by the way the only ones we have approved are the ones we make; yours - well the companies who make them will have to have them testes, at a cost of, and it will take ....
The big picture is the same; instead of $60 and $15 a month it will be huge sums, a lot more and have huge ramifications for businesses; with competitions issues as well.
The real issue is game design. They create features and mechanics which are so dull and repetitive people feel compelled to automate the gameplay. This reminds me why I moved exclusively to MMOFPS from MMORPG and leave the RPG gaming to the many great single player RPG games that are very immersive. Darkfall 1.0 nearly got it right for a hybrid of the two, pity they went for a reboot of the IP rather than fix the issues hounding 1.0 which was pretty close to finding the formula to make it work. Maybe Blizz should look at taking the dull out the game so people want to be at the keyboard playing and not automate through it? Besides gold farmers of course, which have a clear intent as to why they do it.
Would really like to hear the reasoning behind the German judges' decision to side with Bossland, especially since they're clearly in the wrong.
My "in a nutshell" understanding is that the court basically told Activision Blizzard that they couldn't simply impose restrictions (via an EULA) e.g. not being allowed to use unapproved software.
We are thinking about Blizzard selling WoW, charging a sub and seeking to enfore an EULA.
What if you are a company - using business critical software that you have paid a lot of money for and have a lot invested in - and e.g. IBM or Oracle etc. etc. come along and say we have changed our terms and conditions and only approved HR software can be used with our products; only approved pay role software and so on. And by the way the only ones we have approved are the ones we make; yours - well the companies who make them will have to have them testes, at a cost of, and it will take ....
The big picture is the same; instead of $60 and $15 a month it will be huge sums, a lot more and have huge ramifications for businesses; with competitions issues as well.
Not really a good analogy at all tbh, for the most part, when a company leases software for use in their business, its very rare that the company owning the software will allow it to be modified in any way, or agree to fix issues with the software should it be 'messed about with' nor do they hold themselves liable for any and all insecurities caused by 3rd party programs rendering their in built security etc, from working properly, in short, third party software is actively discouraged, any company dumb enough to ignore that, well, be it on their own heads, oddly enough, when employees start messing around with the software, and i don't know of any company that would actually allow an employee to use 3rd party software on their systems anyway, they usually end up looking for a new job, and possibly jail time.
Be honest. Wouldn't you, during a six month ban, find something else to do? Another game to play? Sure you would. Six months is long enough for cheaters to move on to other games and likely not return to WoW.
No game can afford to have rampant botting going on. Ask AA or ESO. Clearly, Blizz hoped the lawsuit would end this kind of botting. Since that failed, they took the more direct route. Was it painful for them? Probably. But it was also sucking the life out of the game, as unrestricted botting does to any game.
It is one thing if a player is hacking from the server side or somehow intercepting the packets and spoofing on the end user side and another if a third party program is used to automate repetitive tasks and making things easier, i.e. use of macros, as long as the players are far away from cities and have a dedicated PvP arena and a place to do their PvE.
I don't see the problems of using a bot to automate things as long the cpus on the servers don't take performance hits and causing lag for everyone.
Be honest. Wouldn't you, during a six month ban, find something else to do? Another game to play? Sure you would. Six months is long enough for cheaters to move on to other games and likely not return to WoW.
No game can afford to have rampant botting going on. Ask AA or ESO. Clearly, Blizz hoped the lawsuit would end this kind of botting. Since that failed, they took the more direct route. Was it painful for them? Probably. But it was also sucking the life out of the game, as unrestricted botting does to any game.
It depends..If they are gold farmers they are msot likely making good money and will be back....We dont know how many of these are legit players and how many are gold sellers.
I am a relatively new player to the game and was completely turned off by the endless bots in PvP that I refused to play that aspect of the game. Maybe now I will try it again knowing its cleaned up for at least six months. IMO it wasnt long enough of a ban cause you know they will do it again. Dont play the game if you cant play it by the rules. I have seen other games offer servers that allow mods and cheats so maybe WOW should offer some "anything goes" servers for those that feel they have to bot.
Here's a thought Bossland, make your own cash cow and stop tongue tickling the udders of some other cow's success.
It's a normal occurrence if you think about. Think of all the third party bussiness for cars for example. Whenever a product leaves something open to fix someone else will step in and make money on it. The only difference between bot developers and your third party car mechanic is that the later benefits you.
While I see your point, I don't think it's exactly accurate. While it does mimic the after market industry for cars I would adjust that analogy to an after market company selling you a kit to crack your odometer and roll it back despite the fact that it's a federal offense and the car companies build them to be tamper proof.
Also, the end result of these bots is so gold sellers can turn around and sell the rewards, gold, and leveled up/awarded up accounts when they are maxed out. This isn't a legitimate use of the original product. Chips, headers, tips, and other car products are legitimate additions to your car.
your end result is wrong... i know several people with disabilities... one person infact who is an army vet whom lost his arm a few years back in duty, who enjoys playing video games and raiding inside of a guild.. who without the combat assistance of the bot the perform his rotation for him, while he still did movement and mechanics he wouldnt have been able to continue the past time he enjoyed doing.
not everyone used it for cheating. Do not assume this.
and just to add, he never did PvP, farmed, sold items or anything else.. just a combat bot to help him perform his rotation so he could raid. just because he has a disability doesnt mean he should be unable or excluded from doing things he enjoys.
Would really like to hear the reasoning behind the German judges' decision to side with Bossland, especially since they're clearly in the wrong.
My "in a nutshell" understanding is that the court basically told Activision Blizzard that they couldn't simply impose restrictions (via an EULA) e.g. not being allowed to use unapproved software.
We are thinking about Blizzard selling WoW, charging a sub and seeking to enfore an EULA.
What if you are a company - using business critical software that you have paid a lot of money for and have a lot invested in - and e.g. IBM or Oracle etc. etc. come along and say we have changed our terms and conditions and only approved HR software can be used with our products; only approved pay role software and so on. And by the way the only ones we have approved are the ones we make; yours - well the companies who make them will have to have them testes, at a cost of, and it will take ....
The big picture is the same; instead of $60 and $15 a month it will be huge sums, a lot more and have huge ramifications for businesses; with competitions issues as well.
the injunction that was won.. not even the whole suit.. but a simple injunction was against Diablo III nothing to do with WoW and was in relation to something so minor and was basically to do about selling gold for money in Diablo III.. it had nothing todo with warcraft and basically furthers the fact that 90% of you people have no actual idea what you are talkng about.
You can get a full set of honor gear in 2 days of playing and isn't the point of getting the year so you can play? But people PvP bot for hours and hours...for what?
The extra honor is useless and the achievements serve what purpose if they're not earned?
Man, people are just dumb. I understand PvE botting but this? C'mon.
Originally posted by Ludwik I've never understood the need for a PvP bot.
You can get a full set of honor gear in 2 days of playing and isn't the point of getting the year so you can play? But people PvP bot for hours and hours...for what?
The extra honor is useless and the achievements serve what purpose if they're not earned?
Man, people are just dumb. I understand PvE botting but this? C'mon.
You recognize a really bad player if he has to use bots to survive in post-cataclysm WoW.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Comments
See, this is the logic I don't get. 100k will be a drop in the hat for Blizzard for years to come. 7 million players is still 7 MILLION players. On WoW. Just WoW. That's not looking at the rest of the company's games from Hearthstone to the profit they make from Destiny (remember House of Wolves? Right now?). HotS releases next month. Starcraft II is in beta for its next expansion. Smacking 100k players in WoW isn't anyhing to the company as a whole and it's not really anything to WoW, either.
What I find interesting is the idea this changes anything in a large way. It's 100k players. ...My home server has about 200k players and it's High Pop 8-16 hours of the day. 100k players across high/locked/med/low pop servers with cross-realm tech... doesn't scream a huge change to me.
They are only as long banned, until the next expansion comes out
..
Watch a video of these bots in action. PvP matches with 1-3 real people and everyone else a bot.
They should have gotten perma bans not only for cheating, but helping to ruin the game experience for everyone else.
The ONLY reason I can come up with as to why they didn't deserve perma bans was that Blizzard let these bots go on for so long that they were partly responsible for allowing so many to use them so they lessened the punishment. (There's no way that's what happened - I'm sure Blizzard thought they could get more money out of temp bans).
guys .... questing and leveling is for me one of the lamest excuses for content creation --- and this game has mostly nothing else, beside grinding for nothing .....
SO why would anyone use a Bot to kill even the last chance, where you can! maybe have a fun hour or so ??? Is Crafting that good in wow ?? are the conversations in chat a lifechanger ??
so blizzy ... pls ban them for ever! And all you high skilled worth for nothing bot used players .... pls stop playing this games :P there are too many of you already in every game ....
For the rest .... its nice to play with you
Losing your account is a big thing, losing access to it for HALF A YEAR! is a huge loss for people, take those who were banned whose accounts are 10 years old, do you really think that a 6 month ban is not going to be considered a huge loss, never mind that some of them might suddenly find they have to explain to their parents why they have been banned from playing the game, probably with added punishments for them too
This measure will impact those players 'misbehavior' in a very severe way, and in 6 months time when they come back, all those statuses they achieved for PVP etc. will have been made worthless, not only that but their reputation will have been made dirty, they may even have to start over with a new character because of it.
As for Bossland, from now anything they make will be considered to be too risky to use, by targetting Bosslands products, Blizzard has effectively declared war on them, and Blizzard has way more coders etc than Bossland does, so everything that Bossland makes can be deconstructed so that its usage can be detected, and the user accounts flagged far faster than Bossland can create new varients, and Bossland just gave Blizzard 7 million reasons for doing just that.
Eh, you guys forget that banning people is not meant to punish these players, it's meant to make them reconsider and perhaps discourage future botters.
Being forced to start on a new account or not play for 6 months does just that. This is also why we don't cut people hands off for stealing any more in the real world - those crying for permabans have yet to grow out of the digital middle ages.
That said, I always smile when I see someone claim "I only botted once!!". I have been on support team for 2 years now in another game and no one, and I do mean no one, bots once, unless of course they do get caught 2 minutes after they start botting.
My "in a nutshell" understanding is that the court basically told Activision Blizzard that they couldn't simply impose restrictions (via an EULA) e.g. not being allowed to use unapproved software.
Not really a good analogy at all tbh, for the most part, when a company leases software for use in their business, its very rare that the company owning the software will allow it to be modified in any way, or agree to fix issues with the software should it be 'messed about with' nor do they hold themselves liable for any and all insecurities caused by 3rd party programs rendering their in built security etc, from working properly, in short, third party software is actively discouraged, any company dumb enough to ignore that, well, be it on their own heads, oddly enough, when employees start messing around with the software, and i don't know of any company that would actually allow an employee to use 3rd party software on their systems anyway, they usually end up looking for a new job, and possibly jail time.
Be honest. Wouldn't you, during a six month ban, find something else to do? Another game to play? Sure you would. Six months is long enough for cheaters to move on to other games and likely not return to WoW.
No game can afford to have rampant botting going on. Ask AA or ESO. Clearly, Blizz hoped the lawsuit would end this kind of botting. Since that failed, they took the more direct route. Was it painful for them? Probably. But it was also sucking the life out of the game, as unrestricted botting does to any game.
It is one thing if a player is hacking from the server side or somehow intercepting the packets and spoofing on the end user side and another if a third party program is used to automate repetitive tasks and making things easier, i.e. use of macros, as long as the players are far away from cities and have a dedicated PvP arena and a place to do their PvE.
I don't see the problems of using a bot to automate things as long the cpus on the servers don't take performance hits and causing lag for everyone.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Im surprised they banned at all....Thats 1.5M a month they are losing out on......
It depends..If they are gold farmers they are msot likely making good money and will be back....We dont know how many of these are legit players and how many are gold sellers.
your end result is wrong... i know several people with disabilities... one person infact who is an army vet whom lost his arm a few years back in duty, who enjoys playing video games and raiding inside of a guild.. who without the combat assistance of the bot the perform his rotation for him, while he still did movement and mechanics he wouldnt have been able to continue the past time he enjoyed doing.
not everyone used it for cheating. Do not assume this.
and just to add, he never did PvP, farmed, sold items or anything else.. just a combat bot to help him perform his rotation so he could raid. just because he has a disability doesnt mean he should be unable or excluded from doing things he enjoys.
the injunction that was won.. not even the whole suit.. but a simple injunction was against Diablo III nothing to do with WoW and was in relation to something so minor and was basically to do about selling gold for money in Diablo III.. it had nothing todo with warcraft and basically furthers the fact that 90% of you people have no actual idea what you are talkng about.
You can get a full set of honor gear in 2 days of playing and isn't the point of getting the year so you can play? But people PvP bot for hours and hours...for what?
The extra honor is useless and the achievements serve what purpose if they're not earned?
Man, people are just dumb. I understand PvE botting but this? C'mon.
You recognize a really bad player if he has to use bots to survive in post-cataclysm WoW.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"