[Editorial] The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt: 5 Things MMOs Could Learn from The Witcher 3

BillMurphy · May 2015

Like most things, it seems like we go through phases of getting big, sprawling single-player RPGs to sink our teeth into. It’s a totally different genre than the MMO game, for rightful reasons, but there are a lot of overlaps as well. Most people that enjoy MMOs probably enjoy single-player RPGs as well and I’d wager to say that the majority of the people that read this are either playing currently or at least have an interest in playing, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. If not, you should. Our review –in-progress seems to be indicating it’s a pretty awesome game so far!

Read on for the rest of The List: 5 Things MMOs Could Learn from The Witcher 3

irven · May 2015

+1!

SIRKRA · May 2015

Originally posted by irven
+1!
ban

QSatu · May 2015

I don't believe Choice and consequence is possible to do well in mmorpg. It's not possible to create so many branches unless you want an mmo to be a single player game with coop for some missions.

And I really don;t want a combat like that in an mmo. It's boring for me.

Besides that I agree.

sacredfool · May 2015

What I like in the Witcher is it doesn't try to quantify morality in it.

It doesn't tell me "You get +5 to Modesty!" when I chose a modest dialogue option.

Viper482 · May 2015

One thing I did not see mentioned here.....the side quests are more than just something to do to level in between the main story. Even the most mundane tasks (fetching a frying pan or standing back up totems that were knocked over by vandals) have a story to them, substance. I can't think of another RPG that made me actually seek out side quests. Not only that, but when I am doing them at times they are so in depth I forget I am on a side quest. To me this is the best thing about the game. I actually want to do EVERY quest.

meonthissite · May 2015

As we've learned from the most recent rash of mediocre half fast mmos developed since 2012, developers don't care about what the players want they just want bucks. It's a sad day when the PC MMO Market is flooded with developers who aren't developers but who are shareholders and it shows in their creations.

GW2, SWTOR, AA, ESO, FFXIV, Wildstar and Swordsman all have failed imo to actually be the games their hype level have tried to make them.

ESO looks like it's come the closest to what it should have been simply because they look like they are trying at least to add as many features as they can over it's lifetime so far. The rest are mediocre at best in their feature list or in the things you described in your article.

Viper482 · May 2015

Originally posted by meonthissite
As we've learned from the most recent rash of mediocre half fast mmos developed since 2012, developers don't care about what the players want they just want bucks. It's a sad day when the PC MMO Market is flooded with developers who aren't developers but who are shareholders and it shows in their creations.

GW2, SWTOR, AA, ESO, FFXIV, Wildstar and Swordsman all have failed imo to actually be the games their hype level have tried to make them.

ESO looks like it's come the closest to what it should have been simply because they look like they are trying at least to add as many features as they can over it's lifetime so far. The rest are mediocre at best in their feature list or in the things you described in your article.

Whether or not a game lives up to its hype is a matter of perspective; these games did live up to the hype for the many people who play them. The only way to measure whether or not a game lived up to hype is how well it fairs in the market....ESO is one of the worst in that respect. Interesting you would choose it as the only one to come close to living up to its hype. It was super hyped and fell flat on its face.

Either way, you are derailing this thread (intentional or otherwise) bringing up controversial topics like this that are just begging to be refuted.

CrazKanuk · May 2015

Originally posted by Viper482
One thing I did not see mentioned here.....the side quests are more than just something to do to level in between the main story? Even the most mundane tasks (fetching a frying pan or standing back up totems that were knocked over by vandals) have a story to them, substance. I can't think of another RPG that made me actually seek out side quests. Not only that, but when I am doing them at times they are so in depth I forget I am on a side quest. To me this is the best thing about the game. I actually want to do EVERY quest.

+1

Story is a huge deal for me and W3 nails it. Story is the essence of the RPG.

Gretelda · May 2015

well almost none of those will happen in an MMO anytime soon because it's very hard to pull off. MMOs are already a hard thing to make so to add more to the mix won't please publishers.

"I hate when those choices are reflected on a visual scale or with some type of arbitrary point system. Real life doesn’t work like that."

in real life people don't actually come to your aid just because you help them once either. this is still a 0/1 system. you have to do their loyalty quest.

"rather than boobs, butts, and blood for no reason other than boobs, butts, and blood" the game still has lots of boobs hanging around for no reason but it got a lot better since Witcher 2. the sex scenes feel more mature compared to previous games and you actually have to pay a price if you fool around too much (you have to choose between Yen/Triss. well you can try to have both but...lol).. the writing got a lot better also thanks to having Ciri around. they should have just had Ciri instead of Alvin in Witcher 1 and be done with it. it all still feels like a teenager's fantasy though thanks to Geralt being the strongest person alive that gets all the female with his Sorceress Harem (Lodge) and decides everyone's fate.

"I wouldn’t call Dragon Age: Inquisition an overtly mature game" it is a mature game, possible loss of friends, mommy issues, daddy issues, possible ironic hero etc. Witcher 3 thankfully with Ciri and Yennefer is mature as well. sadly inquisition didn't have that Loyalty quests though. then again those loyalty quests sometimes get bugged and it is annoying. have to say Witcher 3 didn't encounter any bug like that. (there were minor ones but fixable easily).

"Gwent Mini game"

it is really addicting MMOs really should add stuff like it. although i never understood why people had cards of important characters. they were like waiting for people to get promoted or famous and make cards for them or something? if so why all cards are related to people that Geralt met only (most of them anyway)

also while playing thanks to all the detailed side quests i got reminded of The Secret World and how all quests were detailed. then again after a while the categorized one "racing,gwent, contract" gets boring but even those are well done.

Viper482 · May 2015

Originally posted by Gorwe

In short: Just give me an RPG with a good combat, believable characters and cause/effect. tyvm!

I forgot to mention the characters...WOW. Even the sidequests characters and any other random npc you can dialogue with have personality. They actually feel unique.

Moirae · May 2015

Well said, I agree completely. But as you can see, many people still say that none of these things are possible in an MMO. I say that the idea that these aren't possible are just from people that aren't willing to do it. In a day and age where we have artificial limbs being printed out of plastic by a machine, the idea that an MMO can't possibly have choices that matter is close minded and self limiting. We are at a point in technology where almost anything is possible. I don't doubt that we are probably ten years away from a true holodeck, especially since I recently saw an article stating that scientists are on the verge of creating true AI (the article stated 5-10 years).

elocke · May 2015

The side quests and the Exploration. So well done. Combat is hit or miss for me, I like GW2/Wildstar combat no different/better than WoW combat to be honest. This combat is a bit..simplistic and unwieldy to me, but it's bearable.

Iselin · May 2015

The characterization of the Bloody Baron and his daughter in particular stood out for me as good examples of mature story telling that is a cut above any other RPG out there.

When you first hear about him it seemed to me like the writers wanted me to think "Hmm, another 2-dimentional bully straight out of RPG central casting"... and then when you actually get into the story and bit by bit it's revealed, you realize that no, this is very much a believable character and story. I think they set us up deliberately there

His daughter, believing she knows all there is to know and acting on it is an equally believable character behaving very much as someone her age would react to what she has seen.

Since you brought ESO into the discussion... I enjoy the writing and quests in ESO very much and think they're some of the best to be had in MMOs, but W3 makes them seem like juvenile comics by comparison.

This truly is an outstanding game in many ways, but the writing and story telling really stand out.

Alomar · May 2015

I definitely agree with all 5 of those findings, even though it would be no easy feat for an mmo to accomplish these. Yet, if they did them right they'd find unparalleled success similar to a "WoW" scale. I've been more immersed and entertained in a week of Witcher 3 than the past 5 or 6 AAA mmo's have been able to accomplish, and that's coming from a hardcore pvper not some rp'er. I've been saying for years, that what I want in an mmo as a basic minimum is a "real" mature rating (I've referred to AoC as being the only real one to date) and responsive action combat.

I do agree though that I prefer being able to be your own character and not a pre-selected pre-established character like Geralt and his story. Yet, that isn't what these games are and I've accepted that, as have millions of others. If you don't like it no one said you had to play it, this article doesn't state that as the "6th thing mmo's could learn from The Witcher 3."

Regarding side-quests, yes every minor character and minor storyline you run into in The Witcher 3 is visceral, interactive, memorable, and entertaining. While Swtor, mentioned above, made strives into this it is no where near as successful as it is on display in Witcher 3.

CrazKanuk · May 2015

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Viper482
One thing I did not see mentioned here.....the side quests are more than just something to do to level in between the main story? Even the most mundane tasks (fetching a frying pan or standing back up totems that were knocked over by vandals) have a story to them, substance. I can't think of another RPG that made me actually seek out side quests. Not only that, but when I am doing them at times they are so in depth I forget I am on a side quest. To me this is the best thing about the game. I actually want to do EVERY quest.

+1

Story is a huge deal for me and W3 nails it. Story is the essence of the RPG.

Interesting - to me its the exact opposite - I'll just go ahead and say it - I dislike story, because I am NOT geralt, I wouldn't make the same decisions or act like him.

I dislike playing a pre-defined role in a pre-defined story.

I much prefer games with minimal story, where players make up the story as they go, and players and their interactions ARE the story.

This is why I can't get into Witcher games - because the devs made the most basic of errors in assuming that I want to be Geralt - i don't.

I can get onboard with what you're saying, and I think it's definitely correct. However, the point of story being the core of an RPG doesn't change. Also, it should be noted that even PnP games had a base storyline. I think that there is some freedome in W3. I'm not sure what the consequences are to those choices, but I understand there are consequences. In real life, if I told someone to sod off, they might punch me in the face right there on the spot, do nothing at all, or plot my death. If that's not "realistic" then I don't know what is. W3 is based on a book series, so it's a little more difficult to allow for ultimate freedom. However, the fact that they allow you freedom to sculpt the story is a good thing. Based on my understanding (only what I've read) there are literally hundreds of endings.

So, yes, you are bound to a character who you may not identify with, but the story itself is a focal point, as it should be, not the progression system.

Distopia · May 2015

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Viper482
One thing I did not see mentioned here.....the side quests are more than just something to do to level in between the main story? Even the most mundane tasks (fetching a frying pan or standing back up totems that were knocked over by vandals) have a story to them, substance. I can't think of another RPG that made me actually seek out side quests. Not only that, but when I am doing them at times they are so in depth I forget I am on a side quest. To me this is the best thing about the game. I actually want to do EVERY quest.

+1

Story is a huge deal for me and W3 nails it. Story is the essence of the RPG.

Interesting - to me its the exact opposite - I'll just go ahead and say it - I dislike story, because I am NOT geralt, I wouldn't make the same decisions or act like him.

I dislike playing a pre-defined role in a pre-defined story.

I much prefer games with minimal story, where players make up the story as they go, and players and their interactions ARE the story.

This is why I can't get into Witcher games - because the devs made the most basic of errors in assuming that I want to be Geralt - i don't.

Then it is your error for picking the game up. It certainly isn't their error in creating said game, the franchise brought them from indie status to where they are today.

I really don't see the fact that I'm Geralt to be much different than being Shepard, The Exile, Revan, etc.. in Bioware games, you're still following a predefined character, with pretty much the same type of be the good, grey, or bad guy choices to make.

Wizardry · May 2015

I'll make it clear,i despise real time combat in a REAL MMO,Witcher is not a real MMO so it could perhaps work there.However my long time experience and one who looks for depth in systems,knows it cannot work as well as non action based or manual aiming for that matter.

On topic of Moral systems,i can't argue that they do add something toa game however like ALL game systems i want it to be done right and not half ass.Example SWTOR did it half ass,it became a KNOWN fact that every time you went into those CS's you be picking from a + - or neutral choice and became too predictable and imo boring.I need to see more than a simple stat judging morality.

I still saw a ton of non interactive environments,basically walk through corridors killing stuff,as lazy a design as EQ dungeons were.I want to have to think and make choices on routes etc etc,not just run through here and kill everything,my brain can work a tad beyond that.

IMO The Witcher is just another over hyped game with the money/clout behind it to mass market it.These giants could do well to put more money into the games than into marketing.Ask this question "why not just make an all out MMO,the way we expect it?"Answer because it wouldn't work or they wanted to cut corners by making a more single player design.

Sovrath · May 2015

Originally posted by DMKano

This is why I can't get into Witcher games - because the devs made the most basic of errors in assuming that I want to be Geralt - i don't.

Maybe you made the error in assuming this was an "error".

the devs assumed that this character would resonate with players and that they would want to step into the boots of a well beloved fantasy hero and play the character " in their own way".

So essentially you are saying all rpg's have to approach the protagonist in a completely open way. And I don't agree.

to further the point, and one I've used before, when you are an actor doing a part that has been done hundreds of times before you don't say that he author made the error of making a pre-scripted character. You say "I want to play that character but I want to put my spin on him/her".

I see these types of rpg's as just an extension of that concept.

Sovrath · May 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
Ask this question "why not just make an all out MMO,the way we expect it?"Answer because it wouldn't work or they wanted to cut corners by making a more single player design.

So you are saying it's not at all possible for a player to not only derive pleasure from having a single player game but that single player rpg's are only made because a good mmo couldn't be made?

Well, that's certainly an opinion. One that I don't share.

For me, single player games are ALWAYS better. Better game play, better story, more detail, more you can interact with.

mmo's don't do story very well on a large scale unless they hone in on the "single player" aspect in which case they are usually pretty (I'll edit this ... >) "constrained to take into account the multiplayer (let alone "massive multiplayer) aspects of the game.

JDis25 · May 2015

This article just does not speak to everyone. Firstly Combat in Witcher 3, Dragon Age, ESO, GW2, all gets repetitive and boring. And you know what? Basically all combat does. Combat is a matter of preference, that is it. Tab Target skill rotation isn't outdated so long as it has some type of combo system and resource management, along with necessary counters and dodging which many many tab targets do.

Secondly just because a game is dark and gritty for the sole purpose of being dark and gritty doesn't make it mature, it means it was written by despondent creators like George R Martin. Not everyone wants to be depressed when they play a game. (I like Boobs, butts, and blood btw)

And you said Elder Scrolls doesn't have the same level of maturity as Witcher 3 and Dragon Age? Not saying one is more mature than the other, but c'mon that is ridiculous to even say.

Viper482 · May 2015

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Viper482
One thing I did not see mentioned here.....the side quests are more than just something to do to level in between the main story? Even the most mundane tasks (fetching a frying pan or standing back up totems that were knocked over by vandals) have a story to them, substance. I can't think of another RPG that made me actually seek out side quests. Not only that, but when I am doing them at times they are so in depth I forget I am on a side quest. To me this is the best thing about the game. I actually want to do EVERY quest.

+1

Story is a huge deal for me and W3 nails it. Story is the essence of the RPG.

Interesting - to me its the exact opposite - I'll just go ahead and say it - I dislike story, because I am NOT geralt, I wouldn't make the same decisions or act like him.

I dislike playing a pre-defined role in a pre-defined story.

I much prefer games with minimal story, where players make up the story as they go, and players and their interactions ARE the story.

This is why I can't get into Witcher games - because the devs made the most basic of errors in assuming that I want to be Geralt - i don't.

I agree to an extent, but ultimately they did not err....since the game is a huge hit. Obviously most people do want to play Geralt.

I would prefer creating my own witcher and deciding what type of personality he could have. I do find myself questioning some of the choices, because Geralt would only answer questions as Geralt would, who am I to change that? Still, I put that aside and play it as I am reinventing the character. Not tough to do, and the stories are great regardless. If you enjoy a good fantasy story no way can you not enjoy this game for the story itself.

Iselin · May 2015

Originally posted by JDis25
Secondly just because a game is dark and gritty for the sole purpose of being dark and gritty doesn't make it mature, it means it was written by despondent creators like George R Martin. Not everyone wants to be depressed when they play a game. (I like Boobs, butts, and blood btw)

This seems to be "a thing" these days. You're not the first to say this nor the first to bring GOT into it as well. A GOT backlash?

And frankly, I don't understand what you and others are going on about. Shakespeare was "dark and gritty" and so has most of literature through the ages. And this has always been particularly true of fantasy fiction and the RPG games it spawned.

Maybe you can give me an example of quality fantasy RPGs that aren't because whenever I hear someone say what you're saying, all I can think of is zany and goofy... and I sure as hell don't want an MMO based on Friends.

Reklaw · May 2015

Hopefully MMORPG developers will learn to stop putting personal story into a MMORPG. The Witcher 3 is a current example of how story can be done and can in my own opinion not be done or even should be done in a MMORPG that way.

Story for me fits singleplayer games. Te me this means you have a personal story you follow with several side options

Lore is what I need from a MMORPG. Lore is the background "history" of the ingame world you inhabit to carve your own story build by the tools developers give's it's player.

JDis25 · May 2015

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by JDis25
Secondly just because a game is dark and gritty for the sole purpose of being dark and gritty doesn't make it mature, it means it was written by despondent creators like George R Martin. Not everyone wants to be depressed when they play a game. (I like Boobs, butts, and blood btw)

This seems to be "a thing" these days. You're not the first to say this nor the first to bring GOT into it as well. A GOT backlash?

And frankly, I don't understand what you and others are going on about. Shakespeare was "dark and gritty" and so has most of literature through the ages. And this has always been particularly true of fantasy fiction and the RPG games it spawned.

Maybe you can give me an example of quality fantasy RPGs that aren't because whenever I hear someone say what you're saying, all I can think of is zany and goofy... and I sure as hell don't want an MMO based on Friends.

Well, the first example that comes to mind is Middle Earth. I actually really love Rift's story/setting as well, although it doesn't do a great job in telling the story. Elder Scrolls is mostly dark, but definitely has it's brightside and charm to offset it. Witcher and Game of Thrones are both worthy settings, but are no more "Mature" than what I just mentioned.

Aion's story is pretty fantastic, though I can't stand the grind in that game. Borderlands is another example of an RPG that is both mature and fun without getting too dark.

Iselin · May 2015

Originally posted by JDis25
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by JDis25
Secondly just because a game is dark and gritty for the sole purpose of being dark and gritty doesn't make it mature, it means it was written by despondent creators like George R Martin. Not everyone wants to be depressed when they play a game. (I like Boobs, butts, and blood btw)

This seems to be "a thing" these days. You're not the first to say this nor the first to bring GOT into it as well. A GOT backlash?

And frankly, I don't understand what you and others are going on about. Shakespeare was "dark and gritty" and so has most of literature through the ages. And this has always been particularly true of fantasy fiction and the RPG games it spawned.

Maybe you can give me an example of quality fantasy RPGs that aren't because whenever I hear someone say what you're saying, all I can think of is zany and goofy... and I sure as hell don't want an MMO based on Friends.

Well, the first example that comes to mind is Middle Earth. I actually really love Rift's story/setting as well, although it doesn't do a great job in telling the story. Elder Scrolls is mostly dark, but definitely has it's brightside and charm to offset it. Witcher and Game of Thrones are both worthy settings, but are no more "Mature" than what I just mentioned.

Aion's story is pretty fantastic, though I can't stand the grind in that game. Borderlands is another example of an RPG that is both mature and fun without getting too dark.

Middle Earth is pretty damn dark. It has hobbits for comic relief but the core story is definitely dark high fantasy with some pretty horrific evil undead. Rift has a very Lucifer-like bad guy, Regulous, intent in destruction... also dark.

Aion I don't know much about, but eastern fantasies do lean toward the light and goofy and some come complete with Chocobos... did I mention I don't like fantasies created for 8 year olds? I know, I know, those 8 year olds grew up and still like them... my son liked them but I never did.

Even something as ubiquitous with young audiences as Harry Potter had some very dark characters and plots.

Borderlands is a comedy RPG... sort of like what Wildstar tried to be also. That sort of stuff can be fun. I enjoyed reading Magic Kingdom for Sale... Sold! with my son when he was young and there has been some very good comedic scifi like Discworld, Hitchhiker's Guide and Venus on the Half Shell. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. I like them for a change of pace from "real" literary fantasy and scifi.

But the norm in good literature across all genres is conflict, grit and darkness.

That's the part I don't get: being critical of RPGs on the basis of grit and darkness to me sounds like being critical of the whole genre and something I might expect from The Church Lady, not from RPG fans.

The word "mature" however is pretty meaningless and so often misused that it doesn't serve to describe things very well. Just like "adult" which these days is synonymous with porn... I'd rather call W3 an RPG for grown ups

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[Editorial] The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt: 5 Things MMOs Could Learn from The Witcher 3

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[Editorial] The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt: 5 Things MMOs Could Learn from The Witcher 3

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