Sandman, Sainted and Burrek have demonstrated an impressive ability to extoll the pluses to DDO, and could answer your questions better than I, but I'll "give it a go". Before I do, let me be the next guy to give a shoutout to Santed for coming back on. Kudos to you sir, the forum boards need far more of you. Burrek, you too. Hats off.
The community is actually going to be geared towards rp, but in any mmo, it's actually tougher than it looks. I will say this. If you're looking for it, you probably won't find it immediately, but overall the community has been nice. The voicechat option might have something to do with that. Ironically, being rude and obnoxious is easier when you have the relative anonymity of the internet. Voice to voice it becomes a bit more personal, so folks are on better behavior. Just my experience.
About the content size of DDO, that's still up in the air. Right now I see this as the biggest challenge for the company. They have a game that is a string of dungeon crawls and adventures that you can get to very quickly, it seems. They need to keep that aspect fresh long enough to build out from w/o losing too many players after the "honeymoon phase" comes to an end. If they can continue to innovate that aspect on a monthly basis, that'll go a long way to keeping alot of players happy.
I still possess a strong opinion that MMOs haven't caught up to a good PnP rpg yet, but they're close and get kudos for that. I hope you enjoy your time in Eberron, Sandman.
Thanks for the reply. I would gladly join your guild, but I do have reservations on the dial up situation on the game. I played on eastern coast servers and that made WOW very playable. Far away servers, lag would be an issue. I hope the rp server you get on is eastern coast and more importantly the game handles dial up in general. I have my gift card and want to hit bestbuy.com and get it ordered, just thinking this through.
M1ndGame - Thank you for your kind words; and you pretty much hit the nail on the head when it came to those topics. If you scroll up in my return post, I actually said some fairly similar things about the DDO community.
Sandmanfvr - At launch, my assumption is that you will experience some lag issues, as I had them in Beta (playing on a satelite internet connection while deployed to Iraq). You won't be the only one lagging, though - so that's a plus! . If you don't have any friends to test their account on your computer with your connection, you might do well to wait a little bit after launch if lag is going to be a big issue for you. Either way, I hope to see you in the realms at some point .
I guess I need to get on the official site/forums and ask some things. One thing I forgot to ask:
What is the mood/overall theme on the game? Let me clarify: in WOW it is Horde vs. Alliance and even though you "do your own thing", there is a general and overall feel or storyline (that word makes more sense) for the world. Is this in D&D Online or just towns where you get together and quest? Thanks.
One of them problems many DnD fans have with DDO is that it has no overarching story-line or backstory. There are some quest story lines that span 2-6 different dungeons but there is no "main" story for the characters that the game provides. It's hard to have a story in an MMO that is unique and evolving. AC had a global storyline, GW had the same story for every person, DAOC and WoW have the war backdrop. DDO does not provide any backdrop of earth shaking events.
The game starts with your arrival in Stormreach. A city on the edge of civilization. A pirate cove for many years Stormreach has grown into a large metropolis for those seeking a place to start a new life, seek treasure in the ancient ruins, get away from the law, or deal in traffic of "peculiar" goods. Upon your arrival you learn that the city is facing many inner porblems as well as external threats. It will be your job, wether for coin, fame, or from good will, to help solve the many problems ranging from acquiering special items from dangerous palces, clensing ancient catacombs, assessinating tribal leaders, or plain old treasure hunting. It is up to the player to decide why he undertook the journey to Stormreach and what he wants to achieve.
... Or if you don't want to read the last two paragraphs here is the short version: the prevaling theme is "for fame and fortune!"
This is the way I see it... DDO does leave a lot out in terms of an actual storyline for your character; but in a sense, I see it as a way of keeping your options open to RP exactly why your character is taking part in the quests that you do. My memories of playing PnP D&D are never of having an actual storyline written path plotted out for where my character was going to go, or end up... It was more of how things happened on a whim; based on situations and how we would react to them. There may have been some areas planned, or some dungeons, but the exact flow and story of my character was never planned - it was written as we played. That's personally how I see DDO as having been done, and maybe why I sense such a connection between this experience and the one I had playing PnP D&D.
Originally posted by SaintedOne Serien - Thank you very much for your appreciation of burrek's and my own reviews and posts in this thread. I completely agree with you about your comments on the Beta experience, and what one's expectations and duties should be while Beta testing a game. I'd very noteably like you to take a look at my section near the end of this review concerning an invitation to players for my guild. It would be an honor to group up with you in the game, so I hope you will check out the site included in this review and consider joining. Link to Guild Portal: http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=65772&TabID=570397
I thank you for the invitation. I cannot say that I will join your guild, but I honestly look forward to meeting you and your guildies when i arrive. I've already scan trough the link and did some reading on membership and other guild details. I like what I read and it sounds like a very mature fun group.
Originally posted by SaintedOne This is the way I see it... DDO does leave a lot out in terms of an actual storyline for your character; but in a sense, I see it as a way of keeping your options open to RP exactly why your character is taking part in the quests that you do. My memories of playing PnP D&D are never of having an actual storyline written path plotted out for where my character was going to go, or end up... It was more of how things happened on a whim; based on situations and how we would react to them. There may have been some areas planned, or some dungeons, but the exact flow and story of my character was never planned - it was written as we played. That's personally how I see DDO as having been done, and maybe why I sense such a connection between this experience and the one I had playing PnP D&D.
I would have to say that in all of the PnP games I played in, there was always a story line. But then again, we usually played the same character for months, and through several "events". Maybe we just had a very good DM with a very good imagination...
I played in all but the first stress test, the 10 day pre-order, and I saw very little RPing and the groups I was in never wanted to RP at all. And the taverns were the worst... Most just had people looking for a group, or people dancing on a table or the bar. I understand that this may be due to everyone wanting to get to see as much as possible before the stress test was over... But come on... I would think that most RPers want to RP, not just run through the quests to see everything.
Thanks again for the replies. I am still contimplating(sp?) whether I should get the game. I don't care about the whines about no pvp, no crafting, and can't solo. Only thing I wonder about is lack of content. I have played EQII (very little and quit), SWG(dear God what a crap fest. Didn't stay on for more than an hour and got 2 trojans at that), then COH (was fun but same damn room/building over and over ugh!) then WOW. WOW is the best I have played. I did go an get COV and try to see what is added, but went back to WOW till the whole queues and can't log in. OH yeah, tried Guild Wars. Hated the community and the single player feel. The towns/instanced world was fine.
So I got GW, WOW, EQII, COH, and COV in cases and aren't used. I am just weary of picking something else up. Might just have to take a "plunge" again.
I don't get it, why are reviews that say the game is good are "honest" but reviews that say the opposite are not?
I found the game to be just the opposite of the OPs. The forced grouping made any kind of solo gaming impossible. If you only got a few minutes to play don't even bother to login. You won't find a group much less finish a quest. The fact you have to complete quests for exp and don't get it for killing things is beyond stupid. No grinding killing mobs? think again you just have to grind out quests.
No mountains, plains or forests to explore... hell there is no wilderness to speak of.
The city is dull boring and stagnant.
My D&D sessions are far more entertaining than this bland city and non-existant "outside" world. Yeah dungeons are part of D&D but so are freaking dragons, where the heck are those? No swamps to muck through to find some hidden temple?
Ebberon? Who the heck cares, we don't need a new world to "experience" a new world. I find the place to not even rate up near Dark Sun and I couldn't stand that. Standard fantasy is what I expected not some golem wierdo super magic world.
The combat system innovative? Hah! circle strafing has been around since ... oh the first FPS and that was just in alpha. They've made it less viable to do that but I dunno about you but I depend on my CHARACTER to make dodge/parries not me jerking the mouse around like someone with epilepsy.
The game is NOT an MMo and it's nothing near D&D. Yeah I've played D&D since 1st ed/basic not that it grants me some insight into how things should be done anymore than anyone else but it's definately nothing like any D&D I've played.
Originally posted by Celestian I don't get it, why are reviews that say the game is good are "honest" but reviews that say the opposite are not? I found the game to be just the opposite of the OPs. The forced grouping made any kind of solo gaming impossible. If you only got a few minutes to play don't even bother to login. You won't find a group much less finish a quest. The fact you have to complete quests for exp and don't get it for killing things is beyond stupid. No grinding killing mobs? think again you just have to grind out quests. No mountains, plains or forests to explore... hell there is no wilderness to speak of. The city is dull boring and stagnant. My D&D sessions are far more entertaining than this bland city and non-existant "outside" world. Yeah dungeons are part of D&D but so are freaking dragons, where the heck are those? No swamps to muck through to find some hidden temple? Ebberon? Who the heck cares, we don't need a new world to "experience" a new world. I find the place to not even rate up near Dark Sun and I couldn't stand that. Standard fantasy is what I expected not some golem wierdo super magic world. The combat system innovative? Hah! circle strafing has been around since ... oh the first FPS and that was just in alpha. They've made it less viable to do that but I dunno about you but I depend on my CHARACTER to make dodge/parries not me jerking the mouse around like someone with epilepsy. The game is NOT an MMo and it's nothing near D&D. Yeah I've played D&D since 1st ed/basic not that it grants me some insight into how things should be done anymore than anyone else but it's definately nothing like any D&D I've played.
Finally an honest review with out the biased views presented to us by SaintedOne
Originally posted by Celestian I don't get it, why are reviews that say the game is good are "honest" but reviews that say the opposite are not?
I'm guessing what people are referring to are "reviews" that just slam the game for things it doesn't even claim to have. I'm guessing "honest" here is referring to an actual review and not to the veracity of the review.
While trying to get information on this game, I saw many, many reviews that merely said the game sucked because it didn't have things it didn't even claim to have. Btw, I don't think your review fits into this category.
I'd say it's pretty well known that DDO: - is completely instanced - requires play in small groups, i.e. almost zero solo or raid content - only gives xp for completing quests, not for killing monsters - takes place in Ebberon - has an active combat system - has no crafting - has no PvP - no travelling - characters only heal in taverns and at rest shrines
So a review that says: DDO sucks. Everything's instanced. What's with this Ebberon crap? It's not an MMORPG. It doesn't even have any crafting or PvP.
While accurate, is not particularly informative. It's sort of like complaining that a city bus has horrible acceleration.
What DDO claims to have is: - fun, interactive quests for small groups - a system to make it easy to get in groups - quests that are interesting - an active combat system - a translation of D&D from PnP to MMO
So, if you want to criticize it, focussing on the things it actually claims to have is far more useful.
Some of the more valid criticisms I've heard are (I haven't actually played the game, these are just things people complained about): - quests need to be repeated and there isn't enough content - quest rewards aren't balanced well which also tends to make everyone want to keep replaying the same quests - the quests have no decent story lines and are repetitive, such as quests to retrieve a badge from kobolds later followed by a quest to retrieve a badge from giants - the puzzles in the quests are too easy - the quests are too easy with level 4 parties regularly clearing level 8 quests - the quest rewards are too high with hardcore players reaching the level cap in just 4-5 days and more casual but very active players on track to reach the level cap in about 10 days - the mob AI is really stupid with ranged attack mobs rushing in to close to melee distance and poor to no path planning - almost all groups want to do the same small set of quests - the quests are completely non-random, so if even one person in your group has done the quest before, the party has a whole will know where every monster and trap is located - the combat system applies annoying penalties for movement while at the same time encouraging movement - there is very little roleplay and the taverns are filled with afk characters - the dungeons all look the same and are very drab - many people think it is a poor translation of D&D (others seem to disagree)
Instancing - This feature is such a common sense issue that anyone who gripes about it just needs to be slapped... Now, I've never been a huge fan of completely instanced games (such as Guild Wars, for example), but could not be any more supportive of this being the case in DDO. When was the last time that you experienced a tabletop game with a hundred people? A thousand? How about one hundred thousand? You haven't, as it just isn't a plausible situation... This game has been designed to appeal to small groups of friends interested in partaking upon the quests together. I found plenty of interaction with the other players on the starter isle and in the docks/taverns, that I didn't feel as secluded as I did in Guild Wars. Even with the quest zones being instanced, I found myself feeling more involved in the taverns and towns than I did in Guild Wars, whereas the instance areas were a secondary experience. Having the private adventure within the zone offers options of less lag, less over-crowding, and a more personal sense of accomplishment and adventure with your party. I couldn't imagine a game being based after Dungeons and Dragons being played in any other sense.
Whoa I gotta stop you right there and disagree. Back in the day (late 70's early 80's) when I played DnD yea we just played with a few friends, but I can guarantee you if we had the ability to network with lots of people and create a persistant world we would have. The notion that they's the way DnD is played is just plain silly. The same goes for crafting. It could have been so much more.
I think your review is leaning toward being a fan of the game rather than being objective. Granted I'm not playing (tried it during the stress test) it because of the reasons you like it, but it doesn't give me any insite about the game really.
Yes, the dungeons are nicely done and all... but soloing is completely out of the question when a 1st level warrior is almost killed by a freacking kobold because he can't hit the beast by rolling 1s like if it rains while the kobold hit me all the time laughing at my half plate, tower shield, AC 19. I didn't give up. my 1st level cleric get kicked in the ass all the time by a certain "Ironspike" , even by using all his magic and giving it all... no avail. it is the FIRST quest out of the first area, for god's sake. My wife rogue can't even complete the quests of the first area! So much for soloing a possibility.
Yes, but that's one of the good things about the game.
To be honest, I think the point of those kinds of quests are to give the devs the opportunity to send a few messages to the new player, to wit:
1. In this game you have to learn how to control your character's movement in combat, otherwise you are going to get creamed. You can't depend on your AC to save you.
2. In this game you will have to play as a part of a team, because if you try to solo you will mostly get creamed, and that's not what we designed the game for.
The first quest under the tavern in the port is hard as hell for a first quest in an MMO. It's there to send a message to the player to encourage them to learn to play that character class, focus on its strengths and weaknesses and the subtle controls of movement during combat. It's there to teach the player the importance of resource management in the game. And it's there to make the player understand how weak their character is when acting alone.
All of this, to me, was a sign this was a good game, even if that first quest was rather frustrating at the time.
Still Undecided about whether or not to continue playing DDO
I love this game and I hate this game pretty much sums it up for me.
GROUPS I have played many mmorpgs and the group balance is incredible in this, one of each character type and we have been able to take on quests 2-3 levels higher with ease. However, when trying to coordinate things with several players it can often take a very long time to get much done. 1) real life: doorbell, cig smoking, eating...etc are not things that 8 people in different time zones in the world all do at the same time. So be prepared for major downtime if you arent playing with friends. 2) disconnected: when party members are disconnected, you wait at least 5 or 10 minutes for them to get back if near the end of a quest so they wont get pissed off when they lose out on the quest. 3) personality types: as with any other mmo there are people that just plain dont get along with each other and Ive seen this amplified by voice chat. great gotta boot them and go back to party search for another cleric! So, basically love the groups, just have to spend hours playing to get anywhere because of downtime.
ITEMS I like the dnd items! Buuut...theres not a whole lot of individuality to any character, i went to the clothing shop in hopes of doing a little customization but all the vendors were blank...so maybe something it the future here. Dont like how the helmet covers long hair, no strings on bows...other than that most of the equipment items are cool looking. I hate gathering all the stuff for the collectors as it takes up every bit of space i have.
STORAGE In an instance based game like this (which i do think is appropriate) i dont think player housing would be too much to ask. In general the game lacks individuality in customization of your character and his/her possesions. (dyes, jewelry, shoes, etc)
PREORDER I preordered the game a month before release and the store shelfs get it before I do. So they have my money and everyone else is playing.....great
GRAPHICS AND SOUND, OTHER TECH graphics engine is kinda old not really anything I havent seen but its well used and I always find myself sightseeing in the dungeons. The sounds also add to the effect and are good but they tend to be reused in alot of places
I will probably be taking the game back to gamestop before I open the box..but still thinking about it, pretty fun to play
Originally posted by SaintedOne This is the way I see it... DDO does leave a lot out in terms of an actual storyline for your character; but in a sense, I see it as a way of keeping your options open to RP exactly why your character is taking part in the quests that you do. My memories of playing PnP D&D are never of having an actual storyline written path plotted out for where my character was going to go, or end up... It was more of how things happened on a whim; based on situations and how we would react to them. There may have been some areas planned, or some dungeons, but the exact flow and story of my character was never planned - it was written as we played. That's personally how I see DDO as having been done, and maybe why I sense such a connection between this experience and the one I had playing PnP D&D.
You are starting to sound like you are on the DDO dev team. Are you?
Not a word on the ACTION game rather than a RPG. *shrug* If you want to make a SERIOUS review as you claim, you also need to underline which major feature may bug classic D&D fans...
DDO is not merely a REAL TIME game like EQ or DAoC, it is also an ACTION game. If I start to say how good the Lakers are as a football team, I pretty much miss the central aspect of the Lakers.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by skoidat Still Undecided about whether or not to continue playing DDOI love this game and I hate this game pretty much sums it up for me.
I'm in the same boat. I tested DDO for about 4-5 months through alpha and beta. After my first 3 months of non-stop testing/playing, I hit a wall. The first 2 months were great - I thought the game was the best that I've ever played. But, I just couldn't pull myself into doing that dungeon for the hundredth time (well, maybe not 100th, but dozens). Especially the lower level dungeons, since I'd done those a few times for each character and alpha wipes. I love Eberron (playing in 2 pnp Eberron games now) and DnD, but I was really disappointed in DDO.
Its one of those games that I wish I never alpha or beta tested, so I could have entered the game without any expectations. But because I've already hit the wall, I am going to wait until the 2nd or 3rd major patch to begin (maybe).
Instancing - This feature is such a common sense issue that anyone who gripes about it just needs to be slapped... Now, I've never been a huge fan of completely instanced games (such as Guild Wars, for example), but could not be any more supportive of this being the case in DDO. When was the last time that you experienced a tabletop game with a hundred people? A thousand? How about one hundred thousand? You haven't, as it just isn't a plausible situation...
When was the last time that you experienced a tabletop game with a hundred people? A thousand? How about one hundred thousand?
You are mistaken. Anyone who has played modern (say post 1997) D&D has experienced a tabletop game with hundreds, perhaps even thousands of people.
They were all in the the Dungeon Master's head. I could interact with them whenever I chose, just by speaking to him.
And that is what, I think, people are missing when they defend a fully instanced game. If you take the view that the game program - to a great extent - replaces the DM, then it becomes obvious where a fully instanced game without an open and compelling outside world in which to interact with others players/NPC's is a huge departure from traditional D&D.
My mind is not yet made up, however, that instancing is a bad thing. Indeed, it might be necessary in order to make the game run smoothly. I am simply pointing out that instancing without being able to interact with the "world" at large (outside of the tavern) might well quickly end up sterile and stale.
And no matter what, it is not reflective of traditional PnP D&D.
Comments
Sandman, Sainted and Burrek have demonstrated an impressive ability to extoll the pluses to DDO, and could answer your questions better than I, but I'll "give it a go". Before I do, let me be the next guy to give a shoutout to Santed for coming back on. Kudos to you sir, the forum boards need far more of you. Burrek, you too. Hats off.
The community is actually going to be geared towards rp, but in any mmo, it's actually tougher than it looks. I will say this. If you're looking for it, you probably won't find it immediately, but overall the community has been nice. The voicechat option might have something to do with that. Ironically, being rude and obnoxious is easier when you have the relative anonymity of the internet. Voice to voice it becomes a bit more personal, so folks are on better behavior. Just my experience.
About the content size of DDO, that's still up in the air. Right now I see this as the biggest challenge for the company. They have a game that is a string of dungeon crawls and adventures that you can get to very quickly, it seems. They need to keep that aspect fresh long enough to build out from w/o losing too many players after the "honeymoon phase" comes to an end. If they can continue to innovate that aspect on a monthly basis, that'll go a long way to keeping alot of players happy.
I still possess a strong opinion that MMOs haven't caught up to a good PnP rpg yet, but they're close and get kudos for that. I hope you enjoy your time in Eberron, Sandman.
Thanks for the reply. I would gladly join your guild, but I do have reservations on the dial up situation on the game. I played on eastern coast servers and that made WOW very playable. Far away servers, lag would be an issue. I hope the rp server you get on is eastern coast and more importantly the game handles dial up in general. I have my gift card and want to hit bestbuy.com and get it ordered, just thinking this through.
M1ndGame - Thank you for your kind words; and you pretty much hit the nail on the head when it came to those topics. If you scroll up in my return post, I actually said some fairly similar things about the DDO community.
Sandmanfvr - At launch, my assumption is that you will experience some lag issues, as I had them in Beta (playing on a satelite internet connection while deployed to Iraq). You won't be the only one lagging, though - so that's a plus!
. If you don't have any friends to test their account on your computer with your connection, you might do well to wait a little bit after launch if lag is going to be a big issue for you. Either way, I hope to see you in the realms at some point 
.
I guess I need to get on the official site/forums and ask some things. One thing I forgot to ask:
What is the mood/overall theme on the game? Let me clarify: in WOW it is Horde vs. Alliance and even though you "do your own thing", there is a general and overall feel or storyline (that word makes more sense) for the world. Is this in D&D Online or just towns where you get together and quest? Thanks.
One of them problems many DnD fans have with DDO is that it has no overarching story-line or backstory. There are some quest story lines that span 2-6 different dungeons but there is no "main" story for the characters that the game provides. It's hard to have a story in an MMO that is unique and evolving. AC had a global storyline, GW had the same story for every person, DAOC and WoW have the war backdrop. DDO does not provide any backdrop of earth shaking events.
The game starts with your arrival in Stormreach. A city on the edge of civilization. A pirate cove for many years Stormreach has grown into a large metropolis for those seeking a place to start a new life, seek treasure in the ancient ruins, get away from the law, or deal in traffic of "peculiar" goods. Upon your arrival you learn that the city is facing many inner porblems as well as external threats. It will be your job, wether for coin, fame, or from good will, to help solve the many problems ranging from acquiering special items from dangerous palces, clensing ancient catacombs, assessinating tribal leaders, or plain old treasure hunting. It is up to the player to decide why he undertook the journey to Stormreach and what he wants to achieve.
... Or if you don't want to read the last two paragraphs here is the short version: the prevaling theme is "for fame and fortune!"
I thank you for the invitation. I cannot say that I will join your guild, but I honestly look forward to meeting you and your guildies when i arrive. I've already scan trough the link and did some reading on membership and other guild details. I like what I read and it sounds like a very mature fun group.
I would have to say that in all of the PnP games I played in, there was always a story line. But then again, we usually played the same character for months, and through several "events". Maybe we just had a very good DM with a very good imagination...
I played in all but the first stress test, the 10 day pre-order, and I saw very little RPing and the groups I was in never wanted to RP at all. And the taverns were the worst... Most just had people looking for a group, or people dancing on a table or the bar. I understand that this may be due to everyone wanting to get to see as much as possible before the stress test was over... But come on... I would think that most RPers want to RP, not just run through the quests to see everything.
Thanks again for the replies. I am still contimplating(sp?) whether I should get the game. I don't care about the whines about no pvp, no crafting, and can't solo. Only thing I wonder about is lack of content. I have played EQII (very little and quit), SWG(dear God what a crap fest. Didn't stay on for more than an hour and got 2 trojans at that), then COH (was fun but same damn room/building over and over ugh!) then WOW. WOW is the best I have played. I did go an get COV and try to see what is added, but went back to WOW till the whole queues and can't log in. OH yeah, tried Guild Wars. Hated the community and the single player feel. The towns/instanced world was fine.
So I got GW, WOW, EQII, COH, and COV in cases and aren't used. I am just weary of picking something else up.
Might just have to take a "plunge" again.
SaintedOne,
I just wanted to thank you for your well thought out and honest review of DDO.
I read this entire thread, and all responses multiple times, and decided that DDO sounded like a game I could enjoy.
I purchased it on Wed, 3-1 and have not regreted it once. For the first time in a long time, I am really enjoying playing... not grinding!
The quests are fun, better than mindless slaughters and "Anyone know what I can fight at level xx" shouts all the time.
Thanks again for your time!
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.
J. R. R. Tolkien
Excellent post OP !
Thanks for the great infos.
Don't mind that jerk... he probably has a **** *****.
eqnext.wikia.com
I don't get it, why are reviews that say the game is good are "honest" but reviews that say the opposite are not?
I found the game to be just the opposite of the OPs. The forced grouping made any kind of solo gaming impossible. If you only got a few minutes to play don't even bother to login. You won't find a group much less finish a quest. The fact you have to complete quests for exp and don't get it for killing things is beyond stupid. No grinding killing mobs? think again you just have to grind out quests.
No mountains, plains or forests to explore... hell there is no wilderness to speak of.
The city is dull boring and stagnant.
My D&D sessions are far more entertaining than this bland city and non-existant "outside" world. Yeah dungeons are part of D&D but so are freaking dragons, where the heck are those? No swamps to muck through to find some hidden temple?
Ebberon? Who the heck cares, we don't need a new world to "experience" a new world. I find the place to not even rate up near Dark Sun and I couldn't stand that. Standard fantasy is what I expected not some golem wierdo super magic world.
The combat system innovative? Hah! circle strafing has been around since ... oh the first FPS and that was just in alpha. They've made it less viable to do that but I dunno about you but I depend on my CHARACTER to make dodge/parries not me jerking the mouse around like someone with epilepsy.
The game is NOT an MMo and it's nothing near D&D. Yeah I've played D&D since 1st ed/basic not that it grants me some insight into how things should be done anymore than anyone else but it's definately nothing like any D&D I've played.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
I'm guessing what people are referring to are "reviews" that just slam the game for things it doesn't even claim to have. I'm guessing "honest" here is referring to an actual review and not to the veracity of the review.
While trying to get information on this game, I saw many, many reviews that merely said the game sucked because it didn't have things it didn't even claim to have. Btw, I don't think your review fits into this category.
I'd say it's pretty well known that DDO:
- is completely instanced
- requires play in small groups, i.e. almost zero solo or raid content
- only gives xp for completing quests, not for killing monsters
- takes place in Ebberon
- has an active combat system
- has no crafting
- has no PvP
- no travelling
- characters only heal in taverns and at rest shrines
So a review that says: DDO sucks. Everything's instanced. What's with this Ebberon crap? It's not an MMORPG. It doesn't even have any crafting or PvP.
While accurate, is not particularly informative. It's sort of like complaining that a city bus has horrible acceleration.
What DDO claims to have is:
- fun, interactive quests for small groups
- a system to make it easy to get in groups
- quests that are interesting
- an active combat system
- a translation of D&D from PnP to MMO
So, if you want to criticize it, focussing on the things it actually claims to have is far more useful.
Some of the more valid criticisms I've heard are (I haven't actually played the game, these are just things people complained about):
- quests need to be repeated and there isn't enough content
- quest rewards aren't balanced well which also tends to make everyone want to keep replaying the same quests
- the quests have no decent story lines and are repetitive, such as quests to retrieve a badge from kobolds later followed by a quest to retrieve a badge from giants
- the puzzles in the quests are too easy
- the quests are too easy with level 4 parties regularly clearing level 8 quests
- the quest rewards are too high with hardcore players reaching the level cap in just 4-5 days and more casual but very active players on track to reach the level cap in about 10 days
- the mob AI is really stupid with ranged attack mobs rushing in to close to melee distance and poor to no path planning
- almost all groups want to do the same small set of quests
- the quests are completely non-random, so if even one person in your group has done the quest before, the party has a whole will know where every monster and trap is located
- the combat system applies annoying penalties for movement while at the same time encouraging movement
- there is very little roleplay and the taverns are filled with afk characters
- the dungeons all look the same and are very drab
- many people think it is a poor translation of D&D (others seem to disagree)
Whoa I gotta stop you right there and disagree. Back in the day (late 70's early 80's) when I played DnD yea we just played with a few friends, but I can guarantee you if we had the ability to network with lots of people and create a persistant world we would have. The notion that they's the way DnD is played is just plain silly. The same goes for crafting. It could have been so much more.
I think your review is leaning toward being a fan of the game rather than being objective. Granted I'm not playing (tried it during the stress test) it because of the reasons you like it, but it doesn't give me any insite about the game really.
Yes, but that's one of the good things about the game.
To be honest, I think the point of those kinds of quests are to give the devs the opportunity to send a few messages to the new player, to wit:
1. In this game you have to learn how to control your character's movement in combat, otherwise you are going to get creamed. You can't depend on your AC to save you.
2. In this game you will have to play as a part of a team, because if you try to solo you will mostly get creamed, and that's not what we designed the game for.
The first quest under the tavern in the port is hard as hell for a first quest in an MMO. It's there to send a message to the player to encourage them to learn to play that character class, focus on its strengths and weaknesses and the subtle controls of movement during combat. It's there to teach the player the importance of resource management in the game. And it's there to make the player understand how weak their character is when acting alone.
All of this, to me, was a sign this was a good game, even if that first quest was rather frustrating at the time.
Still Undecided about whether or not to continue playing DDO
I love this game and I hate this game pretty much sums it up for me.
GROUPS
I have played many mmorpgs and the group balance is incredible in this, one of each character type and we have been able to take on quests 2-3 levels higher with ease. However, when trying to coordinate things with several players it can often take a very long time to get much done.
1) real life: doorbell, cig smoking, eating...etc are not things that 8 people in different time zones in the world all do at the same time. So be prepared for major downtime if you arent playing with friends.
2) disconnected: when party members are disconnected, you wait at least 5 or 10 minutes for them to get back if near the end of a quest so they wont get pissed off when they lose out on the quest.
3) personality types: as with any other mmo there are people that just plain dont get along with each other and Ive seen this amplified by voice chat. great gotta boot them and go back to party search for another cleric!
So, basically love the groups, just have to spend hours playing to get anywhere because of downtime.
ITEMS
I like the dnd items! Buuut...theres not a whole lot of individuality to any character, i went to the clothing shop in hopes of doing a little customization but all the vendors were blank...so maybe something it the future here. Dont like how the helmet covers long hair, no strings on bows...other than that most of the equipment items are cool looking. I hate gathering all the stuff for the collectors as it takes up every bit of space i have.
STORAGE
In an instance based game like this (which i do think is appropriate) i dont think player housing would be too much to ask. In general the game lacks individuality in customization of your character and his/her possesions. (dyes, jewelry, shoes, etc)
PREORDER
I preordered the game a month before release and the store shelfs get it before I do.
So they have my money and everyone else is playing.....great
GRAPHICS AND SOUND, OTHER TECH
graphics engine is kinda old not really anything I havent seen but its well used and I always find myself sightseeing in the dungeons. The sounds also add to the effect and are good but they tend to be reused in alot of places
I will probably be taking the game back to gamestop before I open the box..but still thinking about it, pretty fun to play
Lot of good arguments but...
Not a word on the ACTION game rather than a RPG. *shrug* If you want to make a SERIOUS review as you claim, you also need to underline which major feature may bug classic D&D fans...
DDO is not merely a REAL TIME game like EQ or DAoC, it is also an ACTION game. If I start to say how good the Lakers are as a football team, I pretty much miss the central aspect of the Lakers.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'm in the same boat. I tested DDO for about 4-5 months through alpha and beta. After my first 3 months of non-stop testing/playing, I hit a wall. The first 2 months were great - I thought the game was the best that I've ever played. But, I just couldn't pull myself into doing that dungeon for the hundredth time (well, maybe not 100th, but dozens). Especially the lower level dungeons, since I'd done those a few times for each character and alpha wipes. I love Eberron (playing in 2 pnp Eberron games now) and DnD, but I was really disappointed in DDO.
Its one of those games that I wish I never alpha or beta tested, so I could have entered the game without any expectations. But because I've already hit the wall, I am going to wait until the 2nd or 3rd major patch to begin (maybe).
Instancing - This feature is such a common sense issue that anyone who gripes about it just needs to be slapped... Now, I've never been a huge fan of completely instanced games (such as Guild Wars, for example), but could not be any more supportive of this being the case in DDO. When was the last time that you experienced a tabletop game with a hundred people? A thousand? How about one hundred thousand? You haven't, as it just isn't a plausible situation...
100% agreed...
MMO Addict
You are mistaken. Anyone who has played modern (say post 1997) D&D has experienced a tabletop game with hundreds, perhaps even thousands of people.
They were all in the the Dungeon Master's head. I could interact with them whenever I chose, just by speaking to him.
And that is what, I think, people are missing when they defend a fully instanced game. If you take the view that the game program - to a great extent - replaces the DM, then it becomes obvious where a fully instanced game without an open and compelling outside world in which to interact with others players/NPC's is a huge departure from traditional D&D.
My mind is not yet made up, however, that instancing is a bad thing. Indeed, it might be necessary in order to make the game run smoothly. I am simply pointing out that instancing without being able to interact with the "world" at large (outside of the tavern) might well quickly end up sterile and stale.
And no matter what, it is not reflective of traditional PnP D&D.
-Jeff