I am speaking from my own singular perspective - obviously Witcher 3 is hugely successfull so I am not speaking for masses. I simply prefer minimal or no story games because story is always spoonfed.
I can certainly understand your perspective in MMOs since most tend to have really downright silly stories that are best skipped. Like for example...cough... ArcheAge
And people play games for different reasons. Some do it for the killing, some for the crafting, some for the stories and some for just the meta of maxing a character through grinding and dominating in PVP.
But surely you knew going into W3 what kind of game it was, didn't you? It's been around for 8 years and the whole series has always been a story-driven Adventure/RPG/FPS hybrid with non-standard controls.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
+1, I would love some of that stuff in a mmo, mmorpgs today are pretty much nothing but wow clones where all you do is click quests and go from hub to hub till endgame, there is no reason to explore because there is nothing to find out there. Closest game to witcher 3 combat would be tera, you can dodge attacks, some classes can block, The reaper class literally has a counter where if you time it right you lash back with a high damage attack while nullifying the damage you would have taken.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
The majority of those things will be impossible to do in an MMORPG, because of the MM part. You can't have a real morality/consequence system and have it behave the way you wish it could. There are to many people doing the same thing or different things all at the same time and the world would be in a constant chaotic flux.
The only way to do that is like SWTOR did, through personal instanced story quests. But even that is cheapened by the fact that the game world itself is still going to be static after you exit your class quest.
And "mature" mmo's always devolve into just tits and gore. There have been a few mmo's that are more in the mature setting. Secret World being one of them, by the content not the visuals. But actual mature content games don't attract a huge audience so those games don't do well. But games with big floppy titties do great!!! lol
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
5. Visceral combat Sorry, never liked the witcher combat much. Just not my style especially not in an MMORPG.
4. Deep Exploration Yes, would be great in any MMORPG. But exploration imo requires dynamic content. Especially in an MMO. Most (all?) MMO developers fail at that. But yes please !
3. Good minigames Minigames don't make or break an MMORPG. If the bread is old the best butter won't help. Nice to have but not required. But please, create a fun MMORPG first and think then about minigames.
2. Mature Content Agreed. Definately more mature than EQN please.
1. Subtle choices and consequences Agreed.
Regarding story in an MMORPG. An extensive character story is nonsense in an MMO imo. Oh, all those heroes who saved the world... yawn. Some deep lore and a light character story on top with many choices would be sufficient. More story hurts.
I am speaking from my own singular perspective - obviously Witcher 3 is hugely successfull so I am not speaking for masses. I simply prefer minimal or no story games because story is always spoonfed.
ah, ok gotcha!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The majority of those things will be impossible to do in an MMORPG, because of the MM part. You can't have a real morality/consequence system and have it behave the way you wish it could. There are to many people doing the same thing or different things all at the same time and the world would be in a constant chaotic flux.
The only way to do that is like SWTOR did, through personal instanced story quests. But even that is cheapened by the fact that the game world itself is still going to be static after you exit your class quest.
And "mature" mmo's always devolve into just tits and gore. There have been a few mmo's that are more in the mature setting. Secret World being one of them, by the content not the visuals. But actual mature content games don't attract a huge audience so those games don't do well. But games with big floppy titties do great!!! lol
I agree with this I found the article to be pretty silly in fact.
"Most people that enjoy MMOs probably enjoy single-player RPGs as well and I’d wager to say that the majority of the people that read this are either playing currently or at least have an interest in playing"
No Bill I have no interest in playing Witcher 3, and by the way open words like "most", "many" and "few" are indications that the statement is a subjective judgement. I also do not play single-player RPGs, I did once upon a time but then Everquest came out and it was so much better I stoppped.
I read your article to find out what you thought MMOs could learn from this title. Having read your article my conclusion is they have nothing to learn.
SP rpgs are easy to enjoy becouse u dont need another person help.
can play own speed, no need rush max lvl.
In mmorpg u cant do nothing ur own in end game. u hit wall becouse raiding/dungeons/group quests/pvp and mmo limitations to slow players get end game gear. ( 1 raid in week with lotto chance drop etc...)
Originally posted by Gorwe I also agree. Some things are just too disturbing. I have nothing against blood n glory(aka Conan or Warhammer fantasy), no matter how much blood it is spilled. However, hopeless fiction and the mere fact that they imply that there are hopeless scenarios(there are no hopeless scenarios) is TOO MUCH!
Stuff like got, 40k, House etc is just TOO MUCH. The line has been crossed, game over. What about Geralt then?
Idk tbh. To me it looks more like Conan or Warhammer fantasy, but the amount of incests and Wicked things is disproportianately high. I really don't know. I'd agree that it portrays people in a WRONG way. There is good within people and more of it than you realise. It's just that 90% of people are idiotic and have a pleb mindset. But that doesn't make them evil, wicked or incestous. It just makes them...annoying to deal with tbh.
We DESPERATELY NEED MORE stories like swtor Consular! To reignite People's faith in humanity. Or a new Star Trek series /shrug .
After being mindwashed by piffle like GoT, I am not at all surprised at the mindset of a generation. Dark, brooding and hopeless. A lost generation. How does that sound hm? HM?
Oh god do we need another ST or what...
It's called fantasy for a reason.
There is evidence of the goodness in man all over if you just look for it. Doesn't make the news but it is still out there.
"Other than a lot of the awesome (and mostly player-ran) stuff you could come across in Star Wars: Galaxies and City of Heroes, I struggle to think really of any awesome minigames in MMOs."
Diplomacy card game in Vanguard.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Hmmm... If you define "maturity" as "gritty realism and harsh environments with ruthless characters and violence" then how can you call DAI mature AT ALL? And as not-a-fan as one can be of Skyrim I am surprised anyone can say DAI is more mature than any The Elder Scrolls games (hence, including Skyrim - the very definition of "gritty realism and harsh environments with ruthless characters and violence".
There are so many things I enjoy about this game its great to be trying to find something I don't like. Still not been able to find that yet though, though the cut scenes are a little dull. Atmosphere it's a major brilliant part they have managed to capture this all the time and the natural bad language is well placed to which give the game humor is very well done. The game manages to give you many choices and any game which manages to do that will always win accolades.
Personally I would like to see these guys try and do an MMO and bring in new ideas and some of what they have done in this game would sell to the masses for sure. I love the way the villages and towns feel populated and busy too. I find that once you clear out bandits and the population returns back to normal is a nice touch too so you can return and sell and trade.
One thing which made this feel glorious was the way they implemented racism and abuse from guards or people spitting behind your back, great bit of human input showing how folks can be or have been. You can imagine this happening in years gone by just like it's portrayed in game. It's nasty how you get ripped off from every trader they win you loose end of! You have to sell mass of equipment and then you end up spending the coin to breakdown stuff so you never have any money.
For me this game is epic with all the different boss mobs spread all over the world and the side quests as mentioned by others are refreshing and have you looking for more ripping all the jobs off all the boards every where. The team from CD Project Red did good well done to you all.
Originally posted by Gorwe I also agree. Some things are just too disturbing. I have nothing against blood n glory(aka Conan or Warhammer fantasy), no matter how much blood it is spilled. However, hopeless fiction and the mere fact that they imply that there are hopeless scenarios(there are no hopeless scenarios) is TOO MUCH!
Stuff like got, 40k, House etc is just TOO MUCH. The line has been crossed, game over. What about Geralt then?
Idk tbh. To me it looks more like Conan or Warhammer fantasy, but the amount of incests and Wicked things is disproportianately high. I really don't know. I'd agree that it portrays people in a WRONG way. There is good within people and more of it than you realise. It's just that 90% of people are idiotic and have a pleb mindset. But that doesn't make them evil, wicked or incestous. It just makes them...annoying to deal with tbh.
We DESPERATELY NEED MORE stories like swtor Consular! To reignite People's faith in humanity. Or a new Star Trek series /shrug .
After being mindwashed by piffle like GoT, I am not at all surprised at the mindset of a generation. Dark, brooding and hopeless. A lost generation. How does that sound hm? HM?
Oh god do we need another ST or what...
Games and TV are representing the mindset of today's generation, I see nothing wrong with that. In a sense the world and the people are hopeless. We are slowly killing ourselves (no, not the world, it will survive long after we are gone, even though it may take a while for it to recover from our abuses) by doing things such as overbreeding (seriously, there is a need for children to be adopted and yet people continue to breed like freaking wild animals, causing the already overpopulated earth even more problems), the economy is absolute garbage, and obtaining a job even with a college degree is a task worthy of a novel in itself.
Terrorists kill, rape, and destroy lives in the Middle East, countries within Africa still struggle against unimaginable violence and horrors, and people in Russia are persecuted, tortured and killed because of their sexual preference. There has literally been conflicts and war over religion for thousands of years, and I don't see it ending anytime soon, the government is corrupt and doesn't have the people's interests at heart, and yes, most people are selfish, only thinking about themselves. It's one of the ultimate human flaws. Do I need to go on?
In short, there is a reason why hopelessly dark fantasy has grown popular as of late. It's a feeling that seems to be at an all time high in the world.
W3 is mature not because of sex, murderers or dark world. It is mature, because all stuff You encounter is not black or white, but gray, as in real life. When You make a decision, You can't judge it objectively if its righ or wrong, You just make a subjective decision, that fits You. Sometimes the consequences are bad sometimes good, You newer know.
Originally posted by Viper482 One thing I did not see mentioned here.....the side quests are more than just something to do to level in between the main story? Even the most mundane tasks (fetching a frying pan or standing back up totems that were knocked over by vandals) have a story to them, substance. I can't think of another RPG that made me actually seek out side quests. Not only that, but when I am doing them at times they are so in depth I forget I am on a side quest. To me this is the best thing about the game. I actually want to do EVERY quest.
+1
Story is a huge deal for me and W3 nails it. Story is the essence of the RPG.
Interesting - to me its the exact opposite - I'll just go ahead and say it - I dislike story, because I am NOT geralt, I wouldn't make the same decisions or act like him.
I dislike playing a pre-defined role in a pre-defined story.
I much prefer games with minimal story, where players make up the story as they go, and players and their interactions ARE the story.
This is why I can't get into Witcher games - because the devs made the most basic of errors in assuming that I want to be Geralt - i don't.
While I do understand what you are saying, and somewhat agree; most, if not all, RPGs that allow you to create your character have a pre destined created story as well.
In Skyrim, you are THE Dragonborn.
In DA: Inquisition, you are THE Inquisitor.
In The Witcher, you are THE Witcher, Geralt.
The first two games give you the illusion that you are creating your own person, but he/she already has a pre destined story or ending, of course unless you include mods and whatnot. While some of these RPGs have 2, 3, or maybe even 4 endings, The Witcher 3 has 36 possible endings to the story, which are determined by the choices you make throughout your playthrough.
I don't believe Choice and consequence is possible to do well in mmorpg. It's not possible to create so many branches unless you want an mmo to be a single player game with coop for some missions.
And I really don;t want a combat like that in an mmo. It's boring for me.
Besides that I agree.
I have to say you are so wrong on so many lvl SWTOR have "choice and consequence" or there version off when you can choose the good side or bad side to bad the game dont reminder after you made those choose if you for example kill someone the rest of game dont reminder that you did kill that person which is bad.
I'm play Witcher 3 atm and i have to say the combat is what make that game really good it beat crap out stand combat we have got use from WoW which is stand still and press 1 button and press next button that is really boring combat.
Also Witcher 3 combat system basically remove clicker from game and this system do both ESO and AoC have and make for more fun and alot more fast combat system.
So yeah many mmo game could learn alot from Witcher 3 on so many lvl it is so sad many of them dont want try thing outside the box.
How can Funcom's Age of Conan be mentioned for "Mature Content" without FC's main game TSW being mentioned for the same? In many ways The Secret World has more Mature Content than AoC.
And as to visceral combat, Age of Conan has movement based combat with fatalities and blood splatter on the screen. That is pretty intense.
AoC has some of the most intense combat in the MMO genre. While The Secret World has the best story and most Mature Content of any MMO.
5: I found the combat to be rather shallow. You can dodge, roll, do a light attack, and do a hard attack. The signs and items add a bit more to the game, but require you to stand still and be vulnerable for a moment, which you can't afford. Just switching between the signs/items doesn't pause the game and can result in taking a hit.
3: The card mini-game was car from fun for me. I couldn't win a single match against the five opponents I tried to face, and that was just in the first real zone after the tutorial zone.
The game has an interesting story, but the flaws and unforgiving combat ruined it for me.
5: I found the combat to be rather shallow. You can dodge, roll, do a light attack, and do a hard attack. The signs and items add a bit more to the game, but require you to stand still and be vulnerable for a moment, which you can't afford. Just switching between the signs/items doesn't pause the game and can result in taking a hit.
3: The card mini-game was car from fun for me. I couldn't win a single match against the five opponents I tried to face, and that was just in the first real zone after the tutorial zone.
The game has an interesting story, but the flaws and unforgiving combat ruined it for me.
In the context of "what mmo's can learn from W3" combat is a valid point because combat in W3 is much deeper and more interesting than combat in many mmos. Also note that the game slows to almost a halt when you chose different signs/items, and there is parry and riposte- the pause in movement before activating a sign (note some signs can fire extremely fast when levelled) adds to the tactical depth, but is nowhere near as punishing as a game like Lords of the Fallen.
The combat is also enhanced vs many mmos (and even some other rpgs) due to the varied AI/behaviour of different monsters/enemies and specific weaknesses and lore built into nearly every encounter. Taken as a whole the combat design is very intricate, rewarding, and adds to the overall immersion of the game- and imo is far more satisfying than W2 combat, I really feel like I am role playing a Witcher in W3.
The combat difficulty on normal is challenging enough for a mediocre gamer like myself to have fun on and only die to bosses and some difficult mobs until I learn how to beat them, but it is nothing like the gruelling frustration that I experience when playing Dark Souls games.
As for gwent, I haven't lost a game yet and sometimes the npcs are so stupid its hilarious. I think Age of Wushu had a GO mini game in it, and I agree with the OP that such in-game mini games if done right can really add to the feeling of living in a virtual fantasy world, likely moreso in an mmo.
W3 seems to require a bit of thinking to really enjoy and that's another area mmos could learn from, although thinking appears to be a problem for some people.
TBH I would play a witcher world mmo but I don't think we will get one.Also I would trust CDPR to do a game of thrones rpg like this.Massive expanse to explore.Deep and rich story like the witcher.Tons of material there for one.Nice for different classes and playthroughs as well.One can only wish for something like this.Think its going to be a few years before we see anything like witcher 3 again .And I think the next brilliant rpg will be made by the same company.Just my 2 cents
The feels when you save a man from shackles and certain death, only to later find him having slaughtered a peasant family for their valuables and offer to pay you for saving him..
Definite GOTY for me... can't see anything topping it this year.
5 - Not a friend of this type of combat but prefere playing casters. If casters would work similar it would be a gamebreaker for me.
4 - Yes to exploration but TES-Games (not TESO) did it better and when comparing witcher to something like skyrim i actualy think they should have stayed with the witcher2 world design and spend more resources on quality of the quests.
3 - Love it. More like dimplomacy from Vanguard or things like Legends of norrath (but real ingame connections).
2 - Agree on more mature content but more balanced. Witcher seems a bit too artificially bloody/offensive/dark.
1 - Impossible to do it right. Witcher is just as bad as any other game. Not just black and white is good but the problem is always that players don't have influence on the consequences. It is as always - choose answer 1 for consequence A and answer 2 for B. No chance to actualy talk to some npc for a third option or for some compromises. At the end realsim isn't that your choices are black or white but it is realitic to have much more influence on the consequences than just choosing between 2 options no matter if they are grey-options or black/white.
2 things the Witcher developers could learn from all open world MMO's and single player RPG's.
1.) Don't advertize your game as open world. When there is no open world and the game is instanced with zones.
2.) Make your game a little more in-depth, instead of just making the entire game seem like a simplistic console game with a one track journey. Even Fallout 3 and New Vegas have more depth and options to choose from compared too all 3 games.
A mmo is supposed to create an world so diverse to hook you on like skyrim did. Dont you see? all that has an deep storyline ( Lord of the rings; Warcraft series ) with tons of things to explore is highly demanded. Great article! Really good job. Just focus on the needing of exceptional mmos. Nowdays we are crowded by P2W games, games that do not have any "respect" to the players, just money. There is the problem in my opinion. Gameing industry is nowdays seen as an money factory, tearing apart the magic that a game needs . like you said in the "deep exploration" paragraf.
Comments
I can certainly understand your perspective in MMOs since most tend to have really downright silly stories that are best skipped. Like for example...cough... ArcheAge
And people play games for different reasons. Some do it for the killing, some for the crafting, some for the stories and some for just the meta of maxing a character through grinding and dominating in PVP.
But surely you knew going into W3 what kind of game it was, didn't you? It's been around for 8 years and the whole series has always been a story-driven Adventure/RPG/FPS hybrid with non-standard controls.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
The majority of those things will be impossible to do in an MMORPG, because of the MM part. You can't have a real morality/consequence system and have it behave the way you wish it could. There are to many people doing the same thing or different things all at the same time and the world would be in a constant chaotic flux.
The only way to do that is like SWTOR did, through personal instanced story quests. But even that is cheapened by the fact that the game world itself is still going to be static after you exit your class quest.
And "mature" mmo's always devolve into just tits and gore. There have been a few mmo's that are more in the mature setting. Secret World being one of them, by the content not the visuals. But actual mature content games don't attract a huge audience so those games don't do well. But games with big floppy titties do great!!! lol
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Sorry, never liked the witcher combat much. Just not my style especially not in an MMORPG.
4. Deep Exploration
Yes, would be great in any MMORPG. But exploration imo requires dynamic content. Especially in an MMO. Most (all?) MMO developers fail at that. But yes please !
3. Good minigames
Minigames don't make or break an MMORPG. If the bread is old the best butter won't help. Nice to have but not required. But please, create a fun MMORPG first and think then about minigames.
2. Mature Content
Agreed. Definately more mature than EQN please.
1. Subtle choices and consequences
Agreed.
Regarding story in an MMORPG. An extensive character story is nonsense in an MMO imo. Oh, all those heroes who saved the world... yawn. Some deep lore and a light character story on top with many choices would be sufficient. More story hurts.
ah, ok gotcha!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree with this I found the article to be pretty silly in fact.
"Most people that enjoy MMOs probably enjoy single-player RPGs as well and I’d wager to say that the majority of the people that read this are either playing currently or at least have an interest in playing"
No Bill I have no interest in playing Witcher 3, and by the way open words like "most", "many" and "few" are indications that the statement is a subjective judgement. I also do not play single-player RPGs, I did once upon a time but then Everquest came out and it was so much better I stoppped.
I read your article to find out what you thought MMOs could learn from this title. Having read your article my conclusion is they have nothing to learn.
SP rpgs are easy to enjoy becouse u dont need another person help.
can play own speed, no need rush max lvl.
In mmorpg u cant do nothing ur own in end game. u hit wall becouse raiding/dungeons/group quests/pvp and mmo limitations to slow players get end game gear. ( 1 raid in week with lotto chance drop etc...)
It's called fantasy for a reason.
There is evidence of the goodness in man all over if you just look for it. Doesn't make the news but it is still out there.
"Other than a lot of the awesome (and mostly player-ran) stuff you could come across in Star Wars: Galaxies and City of Heroes, I struggle to think really of any awesome minigames in MMOs."
Diplomacy card game in Vanguard.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Hmmm... If you define "maturity" as "gritty realism and harsh environments with ruthless characters and violence" then how can you call DAI mature AT ALL? And as not-a-fan as one can be of Skyrim I am surprised anyone can say DAI is more mature than any The Elder Scrolls games (hence, including Skyrim - the very definition of "gritty realism and harsh environments with ruthless characters and violence".
Something is not right here.
There are so many things I enjoy about this game its great to be trying to find something I don't like. Still not been able to find that yet though, though the cut scenes are a little dull. Atmosphere it's a major brilliant part they have managed to capture this all the time and the natural bad language is well placed to which give the game humor is very well done. The game manages to give you many choices and any game which manages to do that will always win accolades.
Personally I would like to see these guys try and do an MMO and bring in new ideas and some of what they have done in this game would sell to the masses for sure. I love the way the villages and towns feel populated and busy too. I find that once you clear out bandits and the population returns back to normal is a nice touch too so you can return and sell and trade.
One thing which made this feel glorious was the way they implemented racism and abuse from guards or people spitting behind your back, great bit of human input showing how folks can be or have been. You can imagine this happening in years gone by just like it's portrayed in game. It's nasty how you get ripped off from every trader they win you loose end of! You have to sell mass of equipment and then you end up spending the coin to breakdown stuff so you never have any money.
For me this game is epic with all the different boss mobs spread all over the world and the side quests as mentioned by others are refreshing and have you looking for more ripping all the jobs off all the boards every where. The team from CD Project Red did good well done to you all.
I give it a massive 9.5 out of 10.
Asbo
Games and TV are representing the mindset of today's generation, I see nothing wrong with that. In a sense the world and the people are hopeless. We are slowly killing ourselves (no, not the world, it will survive long after we are gone, even though it may take a while for it to recover from our abuses) by doing things such as overbreeding (seriously, there is a need for children to be adopted and yet people continue to breed like freaking wild animals, causing the already overpopulated earth even more problems), the economy is absolute garbage, and obtaining a job even with a college degree is a task worthy of a novel in itself.
Terrorists kill, rape, and destroy lives in the Middle East, countries within Africa still struggle against unimaginable violence and horrors, and people in Russia are persecuted, tortured and killed because of their sexual preference. There has literally been conflicts and war over religion for thousands of years, and I don't see it ending anytime soon, the government is corrupt and doesn't have the people's interests at heart, and yes, most people are selfish, only thinking about themselves. It's one of the ultimate human flaws. Do I need to go on?
In short, there is a reason why hopelessly dark fantasy has grown popular as of late. It's a feeling that seems to be at an all time high in the world.
Smile
W3 is mature not because of sex, murderers or dark world. It is mature, because all stuff You encounter is not black or white, but gray, as in real life. When You make a decision, You can't judge it objectively if its righ or wrong, You just make a subjective decision, that fits You. Sometimes the consequences are bad sometimes good, You newer know.
While I do understand what you are saying, and somewhat agree; most, if not all, RPGs that allow you to create your character have a pre destined created story as well.
In Skyrim, you are THE Dragonborn.
In DA: Inquisition, you are THE Inquisitor.
In The Witcher, you are THE Witcher, Geralt.
The first two games give you the illusion that you are creating your own person, but he/she already has a pre destined story or ending, of course unless you include mods and whatnot. While some of these RPGs have 2, 3, or maybe even 4 endings, The Witcher 3 has 36 possible endings to the story, which are determined by the choices you make throughout your playthrough.
I have to say you are so wrong on so many lvl SWTOR have "choice and consequence" or there version off when you can choose the good side or bad side to bad the game dont reminder after you made those choose if you for example kill someone the rest of game dont reminder that you did kill that person which is bad.
I'm play Witcher 3 atm and i have to say the combat is what make that game really good it beat crap out stand combat we have got use from WoW which is stand still and press 1 button and press next button that is really boring combat.
Also Witcher 3 combat system basically remove clicker from game and this system do both ESO and AoC have and make for more fun and alot more fast combat system.
So yeah many mmo game could learn alot from Witcher 3 on so many lvl it is so sad many of them dont want try thing outside the box.
How can Funcom's Age of Conan be mentioned for "Mature Content" without FC's main game TSW being mentioned for the same? In many ways The Secret World has more Mature Content than AoC.
And as to visceral combat, Age of Conan has movement based combat with fatalities and blood splatter on the screen. That is pretty intense.
AoC has some of the most intense combat in the MMO genre. While The Secret World has the best story and most Mature Content of any MMO.
Give them a shot.
5: I found the combat to be rather shallow. You can dodge, roll, do a light attack, and do a hard attack. The signs and items add a bit more to the game, but require you to stand still and be vulnerable for a moment, which you can't afford. Just switching between the signs/items doesn't pause the game and can result in taking a hit.
3: The card mini-game was car from fun for me. I couldn't win a single match against the five opponents I tried to face, and that was just in the first real zone after the tutorial zone.
The game has an interesting story, but the flaws and unforgiving combat ruined it for me.
In the context of "what mmo's can learn from W3" combat is a valid point because combat in W3 is much deeper and more interesting than combat in many mmos. Also note that the game slows to almost a halt when you chose different signs/items, and there is parry and riposte- the pause in movement before activating a sign (note some signs can fire extremely fast when levelled) adds to the tactical depth, but is nowhere near as punishing as a game like Lords of the Fallen.
The combat is also enhanced vs many mmos (and even some other rpgs) due to the varied AI/behaviour of different monsters/enemies and specific weaknesses and lore built into nearly every encounter. Taken as a whole the combat design is very intricate, rewarding, and adds to the overall immersion of the game- and imo is far more satisfying than W2 combat, I really feel like I am role playing a Witcher in W3.
The combat difficulty on normal is challenging enough for a mediocre gamer like myself to have fun on and only die to bosses and some difficult mobs until I learn how to beat them, but it is nothing like the gruelling frustration that I experience when playing Dark Souls games.
As for gwent, I haven't lost a game yet and sometimes the npcs are so stupid its hilarious. I think Age of Wushu had a GO mini game in it, and I agree with the OP that such in-game mini games if done right can really add to the feeling of living in a virtual fantasy world, likely moreso in an mmo.
W3 seems to require a bit of thinking to really enjoy and that's another area mmos could learn from, although thinking appears to be a problem for some people.
I agree!
The feels when you save a man from shackles and certain death, only to later find him having slaughtered a peasant family for their valuables and offer to pay you for saving him..
Definite GOTY for me... can't see anything topping it this year.
5 - Not a friend of this type of combat but prefere playing casters. If casters would work similar it would be a gamebreaker for me.
4 - Yes to exploration but TES-Games (not TESO) did it better and when comparing witcher to something like skyrim i actualy think they should have stayed with the witcher2 world design and spend more resources on quality of the quests.
3 - Love it. More like dimplomacy from Vanguard or things like Legends of norrath (but real ingame connections).
2 - Agree on more mature content but more balanced. Witcher seems a bit too artificially bloody/offensive/dark.
1 - Impossible to do it right. Witcher is just as bad as any other game. Not just black and white is good but the problem is always that players don't have influence on the consequences. It is as always - choose answer 1 for consequence A and answer 2 for B. No chance to actualy talk to some npc for a third option or for some compromises. At the end realsim isn't that your choices are black or white but it is realitic to have much more influence on the consequences than just choosing between 2 options no matter if they are grey-options or black/white.
2 things the Witcher developers could learn from all open world MMO's and single player RPG's.
1.) Don't advertize your game as open world. When there is no open world and the game is instanced with zones.
2.) Make your game a little more in-depth, instead of just making the entire game seem like a simplistic console game with a one track journey. Even Fallout 3 and New Vegas have more depth and options to choose from compared too all 3 games.