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How few are the "hardcore" gamers really?
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
I found this article today on "The Guardian", which underlines the idea with actual numbers. For instance, only 6.4% of those who bought Pillars of Eternity finished the game. Only 15% who play Destiny actually ever where in a Raid.
While I never regarded myself as hardcore player - I guess almost nobody does - it seems we have an image problem. I suspect this for a long time, that we here, who play a lot and are by and large achievers, tend to think we are somewhat representative. Which we totally apparently are not.
Thoughts?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
By numerous metrics one can easily tell there are plenty of hardcore gamers, if we are willing to agree that 'hardcore' means HOW one plays and not WHAT one plays. In that light, maybe the only thing that is diminishing is the number of players that are hardcore into endgame repetition and grinding.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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I think or atleast hope most of "the hardcore" already know to be in the minority.
So I am actually more interested in reading OP's thoughts to his subject.
I would personally suggest that a dedicated or "hardcore" gamer is one who is truly dedicated to complete a game, to achieve some sort of endgame, because he likes gaming so much, he isn't easily deterred by difficulties. That's just a makeshift definition of course. But PoT was anything but no grind.
I mean, it makes my wonder why people buy such a game? Don't they know what they want? Are most people buying games just out of a whim? That would shed a really different light on the gaming industry as a whole.
The number of games I bought and did NOT finish are so few, I can practically name them all. So I am just that good knowing what I like, or are most people so dumb buying games they don't truly like??
For instance, of all the Gothic-Franchises I only not finished Risen, because I failed to manage the endboss, who had some unexpected console mechanic of timed reactions. Since then I watched tons of videos of all follow-up games, and concluded not to buy them anymore. But apparently most customers don't do any indepth research before buying games. So they buy them because the box looks cool? I really wonder.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I'd describe hardcore in the context of tiers.
Measured in terms of investment (both time and money) I'd breakdown hardcore as:
Tier 1: Plays (and pays) more than 50% of the population. Entry level hardcore.
Tier 2: P&Ps > 75% of pop.
Tier 3: P&Ps > 90% of pop.
Tier 4: P&Ps > 99% of pop. Ultra-hardcore.
So as I see it, the number 'hardcore' population of a game depends on what tier the speaker is referring to. The more hardcore, the fewer there are.
Based on this grading system, in any game there are bunches of Entry-level hardcores, but only a handful of Ultras.
edit: For my own gameplay, I play moderately. I doubt if I'd even make the lowest tier. I don't have, and don't really understand the motivations behind being competitive in recreational gaming.
You're probably gonna get a lot of people arguing over what 'hardcore' is. I'm gonna use my own and say that PvPers who like sever death consequences (whether it be loot, or loss of some other kind). There are many other facets, but that is the one I'm gonna use for this thread.
I think they are one of many niche groups. I don't know how large, but I can't imagine it is super large. However, games like EVE, show that is a group that can help sustain a game.
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Agreed. I would also posit that "hardcore" players are generally amongst one of several groups, as well. For some, it may have a lot to do with the sheer amount of time put into the game; for others, that may matter less. I highly doubt that all hardcore persons have the same goals or methods. People are too weird for that, lol.
Your mention of Eve is probably right, I think the game probably attracts more than one type of player but the most successful probably share some trait that could classify them as "hardcore" or at least give them the option of wearing the uniform.
I always considered myself more of a "midcore" player since I have only raided regularly at intervals and have generally been concerned with just having full set(s) of the purple stuff, even if each piece is not BiS. (I like the sparkles, what can I say?) But if that low number of us (15%) were ever only in a Destiny raid, my decent success record in those might qualify me for the H-Core button in that game, lol.
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
Look at a bell curve. Big in the center thin at the extremes. Hardcore is one of the two extreme ends. It doesn't get any simpler that that.
Now what you might be thinking "but what about all those people I see calling themselves 'hardcore'?" Well just think about that a little. It is like more than half of all people think they are above average intelligence. It doesn't add up for a good reason.
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LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It does not surprise me. There are so much entertainment out there that spending 40-80 hours on a single game is something that a lot of people would not want to do.
The idea of playing only one game day after day for years is even more emote.
Well, by your system I would fall out of the rankings already. I'm better off listing the games that I have finished instead of those that I haven't.
Yet, in those games I have finished, I often have multiple playthroughs, which and I've also done endgame progression content on MMOs.
With me the reason for not finishing a game is simply because at some point I lose interest in it. I haven't had a game I couldn't finish for gameplay reasons in years now. The last one was FF VIII, I went through it too fast and my characters were too underpowered to beat the succession of bosses in the final battle. Griever, Ultimecia and whatnot. (Which was when the game was new back on PS1, so probably close to two decades ago)
I think think there's a single metric to determine what makes a hardcore gamer. The closest thing is probably time invested.
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https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
In that case, hardcore is irrelevant to gaming since 99.9999999% of the games don't even have a permadeath mode.
Lol. Hardcore just means intense... anything else you tack on to the term is just spin based on preference and a desire to be hardcore even if you aren't.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Hardcore gaming was both a hobby and accomplishment.
Do you mean the state of gaming before it became a twitch/e-sports monetization?
Most of the hardcores I know have lost their edge due to RL. Though there are still plenty from other parts of the world. SK for instance is filled with hard-core gamers.
I have 750 hours logged in Battlefield 4, yet I have not completed the single-player campaign. I only play the game for the multi-player aspect and that is what I enjoy. If I was judged as a simple statistic of not completing the game, then the context of my experience would be completely lost. I think it's more complex than recording how many people complete games, because in the end people play for fun, and any number of things could deter them from finishing a game. For example, a new game could be released that the person is more interested in right now. They may intend on returning to the original title later.
The term "hardcore" is subjective, really. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, but others who spend more time and money for gaming than myself might not consider me a "hardcore" gamer. I don't consider it much of a debate, since I am what I believe I am and so are you. We have our own opinions, validated by personal experience, and enforced by reason. If you play, have fun. That's the point, I think.
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The core problem with calling someone a hardcore player is what it means to be a hardcore player. Just like I been called a casual player yet I dont expect my MMOs to have Easy content where people can face roll it in a matter of days. Yet there are other Casual players that think if they play 15 minutes a week they are entitled to the game reward as someone who plays 10 hours a week.
So until we agree on definitions Hardcore, Average, or Casual Gamers mean shit.
Well it doesn't mean "good player" nor does it mean "likes hard content." You can be hardcore about doing easy content badly if you're really dedicated to doing it and spend countless hours in your pointless pursuit.
Same with gathering resources, crafting, etc. Intensity and dedication to an activity is all it takes to qualify.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So what you are saying is, your opinion on what hardcore is better than mine?
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Yes. Yes it is.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
This thread (or the article linked) wasn't about hardcore gameplay, but the level of commitment to a game generally referred to as hardcore.
Hardcore gameplay is stuff like pvp, full loot or more serious penalties for failing. That is different.
In my opinion:
Min-maxers are hardcore
RPers are hardcore
Endgame grinders are hardcore
Altaholics (that level substantially) are hardcore
Crafters are hardcore
People who constantly hop games truly trying to find the absolute best one are hardcore
See where I'm going with this? I feel like many different types can be considered hardcore. I think the definition of hardcore itself has changed simply due to how many casuals there are now. It's almost as if there are really only two tiers - casual and hardcore. The middle tier I have always referred to as traditional gamer is fading away.
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
It's rarely mentioned that a game was too hard, because people are affraid to be laughed at for even suggesting it.
It's like when you ask everyone how fast they type, everyone on forums apparently types at 90WPM. The reality is quite different.
One of the games I hated for being so hard was Fire and Forget II, I never finished it I believe.