Only reading the comments might show how complicated the implementation of progression servers might become: one person wants vanilla server with LFG system because he hated waiting for groups to form... the other hates LFG system and one of the reason he does not subscribe anymore is LFG system as it "ruined the game". We can go on and on with the list of features and most often we'll find both people who love and who hate the same feature.
I loved to play Vanilla WoW (started at open betas) and spent a lot of time in it. And I have a lot of good nostalgic memories. But with all the honesty... though I would like to experience the same game again, I am sure, that even bringing the server to the exactly same point that they were in Vanilla, won't returns that feeling overall... Why not? it's simple - not only the game changed - I changed too... And though there are things I liked and still like from Vanilla, I would not have enough motivation to play the game with the same passion knowing, that "... been there, done it..."
What I miss from Vanilla WoW most is the feeling of meaningful cooperation between players. The feeling that you need a good tank in a team to do real tanking while knowing how to pull, where to go and how to gather mobs where they need to be avoiding patrols and runners at the same time. I miss a lot the time when crowd control really had meaning and it was almost impossible to complete dungeon without one or two mages/rogues/warlocks, who knew how to control mobs. I miss the time, when it was not possible just to AoE roll through the instance without ever thinking of whom to sheep/sap. I am missing badly the times when it was obligatory to assist tank's target and NOT spam AoE in ordinary content as it was almost certain cause of death to one who would do that... O how I liked those times when DPS whores died due to overagroing and got enraged that they were not healed through, but everybody knew that they are just morons and know nothing about team work. If anyone would be interested in what I want and what would motivate me to return to WoW and renew subscription, then that would be the reason for me - returning the meaningful team work when EACH member of even 5 men party mattered and had IMPORTANT role. And I want this feeling within new, updated content, because no matter how good old dungeons might be and how nostalgic feelings would be related to them, nostalgia won't hold me for too long in one place - eventually I'll get bored with that "good old" content.
So no, rolling just a Vanilla server won't motivate me to subscribe to it and to stay there for long. My nostalgia is not bound to old content - I am nostalgic about the gameplay and feeling we had during the playing that content because of the general philosophy and game settings at that time. And the loss of that attitude by Blizzard eventually has driven me away, not the loss of the content, because (as someone wrote above) the content is still present and accessible - it's simply abandoned and not interesting to most as there's no original flavor in it - there's only empty shell.
People have been asking for this since the atrocity that was Cata. I -barely- made it through that expansion, didn't bother making it through MOP and didn't even bother BUYING WOD.
No, it's not -just- nostalgia people. The game really was more fun for a lot of us back then, hence why there are so many of those "we can't mention them here" servers. If Blizzard would stop being stupid and stubborn and just open up a progression or throwback server, they'd have my money again - and probably get many other people to open up their wallets as well.
Back then:
a) The mmo-genre just started to grow
b) you were younger and had alot more time to waste
c) 3D games were still considered as something new
d) Ure a blind fanboy who belives he speaks for all
e) Oldschool mechanics dont work anymore in this fast progression world. Its a antifunction.
f) People are aware of the social problems, that mmo games suffer. Hence thats why this drug isnt as effective anymore.
This is never happening. Blizzard have said a million times that they don't have the game files as they were during vanilla, tbc, wotlk etc.
At the moment absolutely no one has those files by the sound of it. Those illegitimate servers which sport one of those earlier versions are not using what Blizzard had as game files and as a result there are many things which don't work or don't work as they did back in vanilla,tbc,wotlk etc.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
This is never happening. Blizzard have said a million times that they don't have the game files as they were during vanilla, tbc, wotlk etc.
At the moment absolutely no one has those files by the sound of it. Those illegitimate servers which sport one of those earlier versions are not using what Blizzard had as game files and as a result there are many things which don't work or don't work as they did back in vanilla,tbc,wotlk etc.
That may be true but any future expansion needs to be a spiritual rollback regardless.
There is no feature in the game as it stands that is superior to anything in BC. Every aspect of the game is degraded, muddy, and all the fun has been taken out to pasture to die.
People have been asking for this since the atrocity that was Cata. I -barely- made it through that expansion, didn't bother making it through MOP and didn't even bother BUYING WOD.
No, it's not -just- nostalgia people. The game really was more fun for a lot of us back then, hence why there are so many of those "we can't mention them here" servers. If Blizzard would stop being stupid and stubborn and just open up a progression or throwback server, they'd have my money again - and probably get many other people to open up their wallets as well.
Blizzard have said that they dont have the files like a billion times by now. Apparently every time they released a patch or an expansion they overrode the existing game files so they don't keep copies of vanilla,tbc,wotlk etc.
I played on one of those things we can't mention here, and I quickly got bored. There are so many things that were not there that it failed to match even 1/10 of the experience I had in vanilla. Main reasons were:
1. I knew everything so no exploration, discovery etc.
2. The thrill of not knowing what was next in store for the game, back in vanilla I imagined all the possibilities of what wow could become, e.g. emerald dream, outland, the old gods etc.
3. So many people were playing WoW at the time and the community as a whole was amazing. The community on those unmentionables were just as shit as the official blizard servers.
4. FInally a lot of mechanics worked really really well back then but not so much anymore.
So yeah nostalgia, lack of novelty and no sense of progression definitely kill these servers which are stuck in time forever.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
This is never happening. Blizzard have said a million times that they don't have the game files as they were during vanilla, tbc, wotlk etc.
At the moment absolutely no one has those files by the sound of it. Those illegitimate servers which sport one of those earlier versions are not using what Blizzard had as game files and as a result there are many things which don't work or don't work as they did back in vanilla,tbc,wotlk etc.
That may be true but any future expansion needs to be a spiritual rollback regardless.
There is no feature in the game as it stands that is superior to anything in BC. Every aspect of the game is degraded, muddy, and all the fun has been taken out to pasture to die.
Classes were more involving in Wotlk and Cata. MOP and WOD got rid of too many class abilities. BC was great for class mechanics but WOtlk and CATA did it better. I do agree that BC was probably the best version of the game and got a lot right. Vanilla was too broken and unbalanced but I loved it because it was the time I started and because of the lore/theme.
Vanilla was horrible. Horrible. Half the specs had 1 button to press, and more than half of the specs completely useless. I mean moonkins, ret pallies, lolz. I think someone posted a really good post of summarising class viability back in vanilla and it was so very true.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by Bladestrom You can go back, There are hundreds of privat servers and most of then offer a good quality service,
This. Plus with Blizzard you are boudn to a sub service.
Plus most people already know the tactics of the 40-man raids of the old days.
Adding to that Blizzard PVE is scripted to the percentage+second so you know exactly what is coming so Onyxia, BWL, Naxx, MC, AQ40 will be done fast. Plus personally I would not mind having some of the current content put on a progression server, like looting. Back then being kicked out of a dungeon group just as the boss was about to die or encountering lootstealers was a pain.
That said, what happens when people race to level 60, start raiding and have the content cleared in no time?
There would be no BC, WOTLK, pandas etc to come.
Mind you, the world pvp is AWESOME! Something that is non existant in current wow with instanced porting/flying to dungeons without any risk and a small population spread out in too many regions. I liked it when you had to go to STV and you heard the stories about the pvp there and were thinking "oh ooooh, here we go".
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
the problem is cost... The cost to set up the servers, the cost to set up the legacy team to bugfix, the cost to cross-train the support staff and not to mention the cost to support the whole thing once active.
All this will have to be countered by enough EXTRA subs (no point in the people already subbed... no extra gain form them) to pay for it an make a profit....
Why is it so hard to see why this is not something Blizzard does lightly... It is a move that is pretty much guaranteed to cost them money without any return.
Ye there lies the problem, a great company would see it as a win win to give customers something that they would enjoy, blizzard would reject it because it doesn't give a short term result for shareholders. Funny how they can invest in tripe like garrison and selfies, that players didn't ask for - but obviously blizzard value as another way of expanding the types of players that get attracted to the game. As for cost, players playing on the classic servers are not playing on the main server so there is no additional hardware costs, add to that the fact private servers can be setup easily by private players.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom As for cost, players playing on the classic servers are not playing on the main server so there is no additional hardware costs, add to that the fact private servers can be setup easily by private players.
Most private servers run like utter *bleeeep*
Any way... The additional hardware cost comes in the extra server/s needed for "classic". But.... In the long run hardware costs are the small part of the costs.
First you need a team to prep the servers... Let´s say we have a small team... five people... and let´s say for the sake of being nice that one of them also serv as the team lead... That would be 55-80k a year times 5 just to get it up and running... Then let´s be generous and say once it is up you need a team of 3 to solve all the small things that never really got fixed last time the specific code was used.
Then you need to take in to account the costs of training a section of the support crew to be able to answer questions about the legacy servers. Let´s say a 1-5k extra per employee once everything is done + the temp that is needed to fill his/her post while training.
Perhaps add a netweork tech with the sole job of stopping the classic servers from metling.. or at the very least cross.train a few.. also a cost... maybe around 43k a year...
Then of it is the actuall hardware.
And all this is IF.. and that might eb a big IF they get the servers running well enough for people to play.
And all this need to be paid for in new subscriptions... So... care to calculate how many they need each month just to break even...?
b) you were younger and had alot more time to waste
c) 3D games were still considered as something new
d) Ure a blind fanboy who belives he speaks for all
e) Oldschool mechanics dont work anymore in this fast progression world. Its a antifunction.
f) People are aware of the social problems, that mmo games suffer. Hence thats why this drug isnt as effective anymore.
a) No, but it was growing at a faster rate then now, that is for sure. The MMO genre has been growing since Meridian 59 came out.
b) Everybody was younger 10 years ago (and a lot of dead people were still alive) but how much time we have to waste now compared to then varies. I actually have more time right now then back then, different work. But being able to spend 8 hours a day in a game or 2 hours doesn't make the game more fun.
c) Really? Meridian 59 was 3D and it got released in 1996.
d) That I can't comment on.
e) That isn't exactly true, games like Heroes of might and Magic and Age of wonders sells really great. And calling Wow "old school mechanics"is just wrong, MMOs been around for far longer than Wow.
The reasons MMOs don't work as well as 10 years ago is because they are basically just the same, just faster and easier with some facebook styled minigames in some. Now if you compare that to how much things changed the first 10 years it is almost as time have stood still.
Now, I don't think a progressive server or backing time 10 or 19 years will help much with that, MMOs need to start evolving again as they did. The reason Wow became so popular is that most of the players never played anything like it at the time. It was a totally new experience instead of something the same only easier with prettier graphics.
What the oldschool games did was to create new mechanics and ideas, that Wow puzzled together with good code. That is what the MMOs needs to start doing again instead of just taking the same old things and just make it even easier.
In Blizzards case I would skip the World of Starcraft suggestion some here talks about or a Diablo MMO and use their Viking IP instead to give us something that tells us a story in a way we havn't seen before in MMOs and a setting that differs from the usual fantasy and sci-fi games.
There are other ways to tell an interesting story than railroaded quests and cutscenes, people tire of something they already spent years and years doing. We need new experiences, not just more of the same, be that Wow, UO or EQ. The oldschool devs were pioneers and we need that spirit back.
Vanilla was more challenging, I really miss that! I hate the fact that leveling has become trivial and Blizzard tries to rush you through it as much as possible.
I miss things like having to do special quests to get some things, like all the special quests I had to do as a druid to get my various totems. It was a PITA, but it made the class more meaningful.
I miss being able to go out with my hunter and trying to tame special pets that had abilities other pets didn't, some even had better attack speeds than others.
Those are all things that were more tedious, but made the classes more special. It immersed you more into the role you were playing.
However, there are things from Vanilla I don't miss. Paladins had dph instead of dps back then. Inconveniences like having to run to your trainer to get new abilities.
My personal favorite time was somewhere between BC and WotLK. I liked the big old talent trees. Northrend is by far my favorite continent.
Overall, Blizzard's mantra of "this is your game, play it your way, we're note telling you how to play" has been lost.
When I get rushed through the leveling experience, I'm not playing my way.
When only one spec for any role and class is right, I'm not playing my way.
When I can pull a Leroy Jenkins anywhere in the world while leveling, when equipped with only a fishing pole, and not die, then playing is pointless and I'm not playing my way.
Vanilla was more challenging, I really miss that! I hate the fact that leveling has become trivial and Blizzard tries to rush you through it as much as possible.
I miss things like having to do special quests to get some things, like all the special quests I had to do as a druid to get my various totems. It was a PITA, but it made the class more meaningful.
I miss being able to go out with my hunter and trying to tame special pets that had abilities other pets didn't, some even had better attack speeds than others.
Those are all things that were more tedious, but made the classes more special. It immersed you more into the role you were playing.
However, there are things from Vanilla I don't miss. Paladins had dph instead of dps back then. Inconveniences like having to run to your trainer to get new abilities.
My personal favorite time was somewhere between BC and WotLK. I liked the big old talent trees. Northrend is by far my favorite continent.
Overall, Blizzard's mantra of "this is your game, play it your way, we're note telling you how to play" has been lost.
When I get rushed through the leveling experience, I'm not playing my way.
When only one spec for any role and class is right, I'm not playing my way.
When I can pull a Leroy Jenkins anywhere in the world while leveling, when equipped with only a fishing pole, and not die, then playing is pointless and I'm not playing my way.
Only one spec...that was Vanilla. Hunters still have special pets if you are a Beast Master and the Exotic pets. Play your way...there was only one way in the old days the DKP way. Old talent trees were meaningless unless you did not really plan to play at the end. People with the rose glasses are funny.
Vanilla was more challenging, I really miss that! I hate the fact that leveling has become trivial and Blizzard tries to rush you through it as much as possible.
I miss things like having to do special quests to get some things, like all the special quests I had to do as a druid to get my various totems. It was a PITA, but it made the class more meaningful.
I miss being able to go out with my hunter and trying to tame special pets that had abilities other pets didn't, some even had better attack speeds than others.
Those are all things that were more tedious, but made the classes more special. It immersed you more into the role you were playing.
However, there are things from Vanilla I don't miss. Paladins had dph instead of dps back then. Inconveniences like having to run to your trainer to get new abilities.
My personal favorite time was somewhere between BC and WotLK. I liked the big old talent trees. Northrend is by far my favorite continent.
Overall, Blizzard's mantra of "this is your game, play it your way, we're note telling you how to play" has been lost.
When I get rushed through the leveling experience, I'm not playing my way.
When only one spec for any role and class is right, I'm not playing my way.
When I can pull a Leroy Jenkins anywhere in the world while leveling, when equipped with only a fishing pole, and not die, then playing is pointless and I'm not playing my way.
Only one spec...that was Vanilla. Hunters still have special pets if you are a Beast Master and the Exotic pets. Play your way...there was only one way in the old days the DKP way. Old talent trees were meaningless unless you did not really plan to play at the end. People with the rose glasses are funny.
I did qualify my post stating that there were downsides to Vanilla and yes, one spec was one of them.
I probably wouldn't play a Vanilla server again, but I would a BC or WotLK one. As I said, my favorite time was BC to WotLK.
I disagree about the old talent tree, of course each individual TP had less impact than one of the more major ones now, but they did have meaningful impact before end game. I hardly ever played much end game, especially in Vanilla.
Well as adorable as the Druid flight form quest was... I do kind of agree with Smashix on some points. (being a druid i saw both the best and the worst of the old skill tree system.. And got very used to talent resets =P)
I did a very short sojourn in WoW back in classic days... A afternoon on a friends account to be exact. But i had so much else going on that WoW was simply to bare bones. No real crafting and very limited options outside of questing. So i got back to SWG and for my questing fix i had CoH a game that was still fresh as *bleeep* at the time.
After all compared to SWG, WoW was what basic DUPLO is to Lego Technica.
Got back for a very brief time in BC... Realized that i was supposed to have saved the world... And they had me collecting scraps and killing radioactive spam in a can... Killed all the buzz for me.
Came back with the release of Wrath and somehow it felt right... It had matured to a level that was acceptable and many features i had become used to in other games had moved from mods to actual features. Also you can´t go wrong with Arthas... When the guild i was in finally kicked his frozen tin arse so hard he wished they would have written "let it go". It felt so good.
Now ofc it helped that Druid tanks had some really nice OP spots in WotLK. =P
But no way in hell i´d go back and play on a vanilla or BC server... Ever... Feck i used my WoD trial to go back and solo spite-slaid a few BC raids...
I would love to play the original or BC version, but have read before that Blizzard denies ever supporting old servers. Comments about the administrative burden and the time and focus that would need to be placed on an old version of the game is something that Blizzard doesnt want to manage or bother with.
The official comments I have read on this topic over the years has always ended in a negative towards this idea. Such a shame really, as I would play Vanilla and BC again in a heartbeat. I dont care for the game currently, its bland and impersonal. Ah well.
Nostalgia really makes us forget all the shit that were in wow during the nostalgia time. low fps in populated world pvp events(tarren mill), raid boss reset after kill and not dropping loot and then wiping raid and much much more. nostalgia is all good as long as you don't picture shit as honey...ohhh wait that is what nostalgia is, isn't it?
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
No that's all gaming, you remember the good buts, and forget about the bad bits - why on earth would you dwell over the latter. Nostalgia Is going to an old game and reminiscing why you play, it's not difficult to understand.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Vanilla was more challenging, I really miss that! I hate the fact that leveling has become trivial and Blizzard tries to rush you through it as much as possible.
I miss things like having to do special quests to get some things, like all the special quests I had to do as a druid to get my various totems. It was a PITA, but it made the class more meaningful.
I miss being able to go out with my hunter and trying to tame special pets that had abilities other pets didn't, some even had better attack speeds than others.
Those are all things that were more tedious, but made the classes more special. It immersed you more into the role you were playing.
However, there are things from Vanilla I don't miss. Paladins had dph instead of dps back then. Inconveniences like having to run to your trainer to get new abilities.
My personal favorite time was somewhere between BC and WotLK. I liked the big old talent trees. Northrend is by far my favorite continent.
Overall, Blizzard's mantra of "this is your game, play it your way, we're note telling you how to play" has been lost.
When I get rushed through the leveling experience, I'm not playing my way.
When only one spec for any role and class is right, I'm not playing my way.
When I can pull a Leroy Jenkins anywhere in the world while leveling, when equipped with only a fishing pole, and not die, then playing is pointless and I'm not playing my way.
Only one spec...that was Vanilla. Hunters still have special pets if you are a Beast Master and the Exotic pets. Play your way...there was only one way in the old days the DKP way. Old talent trees were meaningless unless you did not really plan to play at the end. People with the rose glasses are funny.
I did qualify my post stating that there were downsides to Vanilla and yes, one spec was one of them.
I probably wouldn't play a Vanilla server again, but I would a BC or WotLK one. As I said, my favorite time was BC to WotLK.
I disagree about the old talent tree, of course each individual TP had less impact than one of the more major ones now, but they did have meaningful impact before end game. I hardly ever played much end game, especially in Vanilla.
I agree with your post. For me tbc was probably the best and maybe early wotlk but definitely wotlk only until ulduar. Later things like trial of the crusader and group finder destroyed the game. The second half of wotlk was probably the most detrimental out of all the expansions. Cata carried on by destroying the old world and mop by introducing lfr and the new talent trees. WOD just didn't have a chance after all the damage done by wotlk and mop. Cata revamp of old zones wasn't as bad actually. So yeah mop and wotlk must be the worst expansions
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You can go back. I have done it two other times: SWTOR and WildStar. They all grabbed me exactly like WoW did. They fell flat at end game for me otherwise I would ahve said goodbye to WoW with SWTOR. I actually DID for four months with SWTOR and three months with WildStar.
I would def play again for a Vanilla/TBC or even a WOTLK Progression server. I just don't get it. Blizzard would only make a huge profit from it that is for sure. And how many cash do they have to invest really?
Comments
Only reading the comments might show how complicated the implementation of progression servers might become: one person wants vanilla server with LFG system because he hated waiting for groups to form... the other hates LFG system and one of the reason he does not subscribe anymore is LFG system as it "ruined the game". We can go on and on with the list of features and most often we'll find both people who love and who hate the same feature.
I loved to play Vanilla WoW (started at open betas) and spent a lot of time in it. And I have a lot of good nostalgic memories. But with all the honesty... though I would like to experience the same game again, I am sure, that even bringing the server to the exactly same point that they were in Vanilla, won't returns that feeling overall... Why not? it's simple - not only the game changed - I changed too... And though there are things I liked and still like from Vanilla, I would not have enough motivation to play the game with the same passion knowing, that "... been there, done it..."
What I miss from Vanilla WoW most is the feeling of meaningful cooperation between players. The feeling that you need a good tank in a team to do real tanking while knowing how to pull, where to go and how to gather mobs where they need to be avoiding patrols and runners at the same time. I miss a lot the time when crowd control really had meaning and it was almost impossible to complete dungeon without one or two mages/rogues/warlocks, who knew how to control mobs. I miss the time, when it was not possible just to AoE roll through the instance without ever thinking of whom to sheep/sap. I am missing badly the times when it was obligatory to assist tank's target and NOT spam AoE in ordinary content as it was almost certain cause of death to one who would do that... O how I liked those times when DPS whores died due to overagroing and got enraged that they were not healed through, but everybody knew that they are just morons and know nothing about team work. If anyone would be interested in what I want and what would motivate me to return to WoW and renew subscription, then that would be the reason for me - returning the meaningful team work when EACH member of even 5 men party mattered and had IMPORTANT role. And I want this feeling within new, updated content, because no matter how good old dungeons might be and how nostalgic feelings would be related to them, nostalgia won't hold me for too long in one place - eventually I'll get bored with that "good old" content.
So no, rolling just a Vanilla server won't motivate me to subscribe to it and to stay there for long. My nostalgia is not bound to old content - I am nostalgic about the gameplay and feeling we had during the playing that content because of the general philosophy and game settings at that time. And the loss of that attitude by Blizzard eventually has driven me away, not the loss of the content, because (as someone wrote above) the content is still present and accessible - it's simply abandoned and not interesting to most as there's no original flavor in it - there's only empty shell.
Back then:
a) The mmo-genre just started to grow
b) you were younger and had alot more time to waste
c) 3D games were still considered as something new
d) Ure a blind fanboy who belives he speaks for all
e) Oldschool mechanics dont work anymore in this fast progression world. Its a antifunction.
f) People are aware of the social problems, that mmo games suffer. Hence thats why this drug isnt as effective anymore.
This is never happening. Blizzard have said a million times that they don't have the game files as they were during vanilla, tbc, wotlk etc.
At the moment absolutely no one has those files by the sound of it. Those illegitimate servers which sport one of those earlier versions are not using what Blizzard had as game files and as a result there are many things which don't work or don't work as they did back in vanilla,tbc,wotlk etc.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
That may be true but any future expansion needs to be a spiritual rollback regardless.
There is no feature in the game as it stands that is superior to anything in BC. Every aspect of the game is degraded, muddy, and all the fun has been taken out to pasture to die.
Blizzard have said that they dont have the files like a billion times by now. Apparently every time they released a patch or an expansion they overrode the existing game files so they don't keep copies of vanilla,tbc,wotlk etc.
I played on one of those things we can't mention here, and I quickly got bored. There are so many things that were not there that it failed to match even 1/10 of the experience I had in vanilla. Main reasons were:
1. I knew everything so no exploration, discovery etc.
2. The thrill of not knowing what was next in store for the game, back in vanilla I imagined all the possibilities of what wow could become, e.g. emerald dream, outland, the old gods etc.
3. So many people were playing WoW at the time and the community as a whole was amazing. The community on those unmentionables were just as shit as the official blizard servers.
4. FInally a lot of mechanics worked really really well back then but not so much anymore.
So yeah nostalgia, lack of novelty and no sense of progression definitely kill these servers which are stuck in time forever.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Classes were more involving in Wotlk and Cata. MOP and WOD got rid of too many class abilities. BC was great for class mechanics but WOtlk and CATA did it better. I do agree that BC was probably the best version of the game and got a lot right. Vanilla was too broken and unbalanced but I loved it because it was the time I started and because of the lore/theme.
Vanilla was horrible. Horrible. Half the specs had 1 button to press, and more than half of the specs completely useless. I mean moonkins, ret pallies, lolz. I think someone posted a really good post of summarising class viability back in vanilla and it was so very true.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
This. Plus with Blizzard you are boudn to a sub service.
Plus most people already know the tactics of the 40-man raids of the old days.
Adding to that Blizzard PVE is scripted to the percentage+second so you know exactly what is coming so Onyxia, BWL, Naxx, MC, AQ40 will be done fast. Plus personally I would not mind having some of the current content put on a progression server, like looting. Back then being kicked out of a dungeon group just as the boss was about to die or encountering lootstealers was a pain.
That said, what happens when people race to level 60, start raiding and have the content cleared in no time?
There would be no BC, WOTLK, pandas etc to come.
Mind you, the world pvp is AWESOME! Something that is non existant in current wow with instanced porting/flying to dungeons without any risk and a small population spread out in too many regions. I liked it when you had to go to STV and you heard the stories about the pvp there and were thinking "oh ooooh, here we go".
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
the problem is cost... The cost to set up the servers, the cost to set up the legacy team to bugfix, the cost to cross-train the support staff and not to mention the cost to support the whole thing once active.
All this will have to be countered by enough EXTRA subs (no point in the people already subbed... no extra gain form them) to pay for it an make a profit....
Why is it so hard to see why this is not something Blizzard does lightly... It is a move that is pretty much guaranteed to cost them money without any return.
This have been a good conversation
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Most private servers run like utter *bleeeep*
Any way... The additional hardware cost comes in the extra server/s needed for "classic". But.... In the long run hardware costs are the small part of the costs.
First you need a team to prep the servers... Let´s say we have a small team... five people... and let´s say for the sake of being nice that one of them also serv as the team lead... That would be 55-80k a year times 5 just to get it up and running... Then let´s be generous and say once it is up you need a team of 3 to solve all the small things that never really got fixed last time the specific code was used.
Then you need to take in to account the costs of training a section of the support crew to be able to answer questions about the legacy servers. Let´s say a 1-5k extra per employee once everything is done + the temp that is needed to fill his/her post while training.
Perhaps add a netweork tech with the sole job of stopping the classic servers from metling.. or at the very least cross.train a few.. also a cost... maybe around 43k a year...
Then of it is the actuall hardware.
And all this is IF.. and that might eb a big IF they get the servers running well enough for people to play.
And all this need to be paid for in new subscriptions... So... care to calculate how many they need each month just to break even...?
This have been a good conversation
a) No, but it was growing at a faster rate then now, that is for sure. The MMO genre has been growing since Meridian 59 came out.
b) Everybody was younger 10 years ago (and a lot of dead people were still alive) but how much time we have to waste now compared to then varies. I actually have more time right now then back then, different work. But being able to spend 8 hours a day in a game or 2 hours doesn't make the game more fun.
c) Really? Meridian 59 was 3D and it got released in 1996.
d) That I can't comment on.
e) That isn't exactly true, games like Heroes of might and Magic and Age of wonders sells really great. And calling Wow "old school mechanics"is just wrong, MMOs been around for far longer than Wow.
The reasons MMOs don't work as well as 10 years ago is because they are basically just the same, just faster and easier with some facebook styled minigames in some. Now if you compare that to how much things changed the first 10 years it is almost as time have stood still.
Now, I don't think a progressive server or backing time 10 or 19 years will help much with that, MMOs need to start evolving again as they did. The reason Wow became so popular is that most of the players never played anything like it at the time. It was a totally new experience instead of something the same only easier with prettier graphics.
What the oldschool games did was to create new mechanics and ideas, that Wow puzzled together with good code. That is what the MMOs needs to start doing again instead of just taking the same old things and just make it even easier.
In Blizzards case I would skip the World of Starcraft suggestion some here talks about or a Diablo MMO and use their Viking IP instead to give us something that tells us a story in a way we havn't seen before in MMOs and a setting that differs from the usual fantasy and sci-fi games.
There are other ways to tell an interesting story than railroaded quests and cutscenes, people tire of something they already spent years and years doing. We need new experiences, not just more of the same, be that Wow, UO or EQ. The oldschool devs were pioneers and we need that spirit back.
I have and will be playing for free for the next 6 months, so will 2 of my friends, we all bought 6 tokens, and are making 1500-2500 g a day anyways
Vanilla was more challenging, I really miss that! I hate the fact that leveling has become trivial and Blizzard tries to rush you through it as much as possible.
I miss things like having to do special quests to get some things, like all the special quests I had to do as a druid to get my various totems. It was a PITA, but it made the class more meaningful.
I miss being able to go out with my hunter and trying to tame special pets that had abilities other pets didn't, some even had better attack speeds than others.
Those are all things that were more tedious, but made the classes more special. It immersed you more into the role you were playing.
However, there are things from Vanilla I don't miss. Paladins had dph instead of dps back then. Inconveniences like having to run to your trainer to get new abilities.
My personal favorite time was somewhere between BC and WotLK. I liked the big old talent trees. Northrend is by far my favorite continent.
Overall, Blizzard's mantra of "this is your game, play it your way, we're note telling you how to play" has been lost.
When I get rushed through the leveling experience, I'm not playing my way.
When only one spec for any role and class is right, I'm not playing my way.
When I can pull a Leroy Jenkins anywhere in the world while leveling, when equipped with only a fishing pole, and not die, then playing is pointless and I'm not playing my way.
Only one spec...that was Vanilla. Hunters still have special pets if you are a Beast Master and the Exotic pets. Play your way...there was only one way in the old days the DKP way. Old talent trees were meaningless unless you did not really plan to play at the end. People with the rose glasses are funny.
I did qualify my post stating that there were downsides to Vanilla and yes, one spec was one of them.
I probably wouldn't play a Vanilla server again, but I would a BC or WotLK one. As I said, my favorite time was BC to WotLK.
I disagree about the old talent tree, of course each individual TP had less impact than one of the more major ones now, but they did have meaningful impact before end game. I hardly ever played much end game, especially in Vanilla.
Well as adorable as the Druid flight form quest was... I do kind of agree with Smashix on some points. (being a druid i saw both the best and the worst of the old skill tree system.. And got very used to talent resets =P)
I did a very short sojourn in WoW back in classic days... A afternoon on a friends account to be exact. But i had so much else going on that WoW was simply to bare bones. No real crafting and very limited options outside of questing. So i got back to SWG and for my questing fix i had CoH a game that was still fresh as *bleeep* at the time.
After all compared to SWG, WoW was what basic DUPLO is to Lego Technica.
Got back for a very brief time in BC... Realized that i was supposed to have saved the world... And they had me collecting scraps and killing radioactive spam in a can... Killed all the buzz for me.
Came back with the release of Wrath and somehow it felt right... It had matured to a level that was acceptable and many features i had become used to in other games had moved from mods to actual features. Also you can´t go wrong with Arthas... When the guild i was in finally kicked his frozen tin arse so hard he wished they would have written "let it go". It felt so good.
Now ofc it helped that Druid tanks had some really nice OP spots in WotLK. =P
But no way in hell i´d go back and play on a vanilla or BC server... Ever... Feck i used my WoD trial to go back and solo spite-slaid a few BC raids...
This have been a good conversation
without getting into a debate about it,
If Blizzard released a server with each of the xpacs, I would certainly roll a toon on each.
Pay the current sub and be able to play on what ever version you wanted...yes please.
Total progression I would hope.
I would love to play the original or BC version, but have read before that Blizzard denies ever supporting old servers. Comments about the administrative burden and the time and focus that would need to be placed on an old version of the game is something that Blizzard doesnt want to manage or bother with.
The official comments I have read on this topic over the years has always ended in a negative towards this idea. Such a shame really, as I would play Vanilla and BC again in a heartbeat. I dont care for the game currently, its bland and impersonal. Ah well.
Check your email Blizzard just sent out emails giving players a free week.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Is going to an old game and reminiscing why you play, it's not difficult to understand.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I agree with your post. For me tbc was probably the best and maybe early wotlk but definitely wotlk only until ulduar. Later things like trial of the crusader and group finder destroyed the game. The second half of wotlk was probably the most detrimental out of all the expansions. Cata carried on by destroying the old world and mop by introducing lfr and the new talent trees. WOD just didn't have a chance after all the damage done by wotlk and mop. Cata revamp of old zones wasn't as bad actually. So yeah mop and wotlk must be the worst expansions
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