The new duty finder and increased story quest xp just killed the entire world this game has to offer. The people who have completed the main story on their main class will only be grinding duty finder due to getting rushed through for fast xp. Especially since the Fate xp nerfs. This means a large number of people will be seen in cities waiting on ques, while all the new players are out in an empty world doing the story quests...and not much else. At this rate, they might as well take out the world and just make the game lobby-based client. That loads you into an area/quest/dungeon with others needing to do it.
Things like this ruin the core of what an MMORPG is meant to be imo.
The game is a lobby game. There is pretty much no incentive to do anything in the world. It only serves as backdrop for the main story and to teleport to harvesting nodes.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Lets be honest players of FFXIV. The first class/job to end level was allready doable by doing the main quest, with some side quests and maybe some fates. This will not be any different. How many times can you do the main quest? The all classes/jobs on one char will still be the hard work.
I am happy to read there will be less forced duties in the main quest from lvl 50 to 60. I know fellow players who love the gather and craft part of the game. They hated the grind for gear to get a minimal ilevel to do a hated duty to progress in the main quest.
After finishing main quest its all about what you want to do. Leveling other classes/jobs, grinding with friends the best gear, crafting and gathering.
So yes, I am happy to see even the most casual of casual players can finish the main quest, but I hope and pray the handholding ends at that point. But what you want to do after that point should still be hard work.
Want lets be honest. If a game is made to casual friendly, people leave, because the same casual people crying out we are bored, there is nothing to do.
And please do not nerf the fates. Its one of the most social events in the game. The cry of Svara in coerthas or DD in Northern T bringing nice memories. Groups are fast formed (DD) to get out the heals correctly. Need to do on the extra class/job only dungeons will be boring compared to the running around in Fates
ppl need to understand that the only way to enter a NO LEVEL SYNC dungeon u need to be on premade party , because the duty finder will still use full party level sync.
a lvl 60 will be able to help lvl 20 on dungeon and solo it? yeah going to the door and entereing...but if both of them queue for that dungeon they will be synced down to 20 .
the exp boost while leveling isnt killing the world , to level 1-50 u needed to do every side quests and on top of that u were short on levels and had to fates, repeat dungeons or do levequests.
Giving doble exp in MSQ is like if Swtor double exp the class quest , is NICE but not enough to let u level just on that.
The casuals destroyed WOW and now the locusts have moved on to FFARR....
No no master, we casuals bow to your eliteness!
Pretty sad people like you don't get that your mmo dies without new people coming into the population. But rock on dude.
Actually, the game dies if too many people start to *leave* the game, and revenue begins to decrease.
The game could very well stop getting new players. So long as it has enough to sustain its development... then it stays as it is.
It doesn't die or grow.
Players will always leaves regardless of how the game is, you need new blood to sustain an MMO. This is fact, no debate about it. The harder an MMO is for new players to access the less will access it, and the majority who do will quit before they reach any kind of end game. Meanwhile, current players are always leaving. Sinking ship is sinking, fact. Why people like you think allowing new players to progress quicker than you did is bad for an MMO is baffling to me. Get over the "not fair!!" crap and think about it.
There will be less players grinding in the world, so what? Are you hanging out in newbie zones all day?
Personally. I see no reason to have A quarrel with the casuals. I for one am a casual player which I do believe actually mainly refers to the amount of time you can or will put into the game. What does seem to be the problem is the loud mouth self centered children that the Devs, in some cases, seems to suddenly Carter to. I guess they after all are a pertty solid demography. Very unfortunate because they are so hard to care for, in a gaming invironment anyways, making themselves noticed in obscene ways. I as a casual would myself never ask for them to tailor the game around me me me. It is their vision let them keep it.
Yesterday I had a new player in our FC complaining in a way that I think actually shows this problem of character. Not that this is new or very exciting.Yes it is problematic. He/she said 'lol this instance is bad, so many dead players' - i asked him/her if he/she was sure it was'nt a question of the players being bad. Maybe I could have chosen another word, but the clear point remains. These people (Them, they) give up so easily and blame to harsh cruel world, never themselves.
All this said however I dont necessarily see mindless grinding as quality content. But in my view, creating gameworlds, that are made to be raced trough simply destroy the vast majority of a mmorpg. For various reasons. Sorry for spelling in advance.
You sound more like an elitist than you do a casual.
The new duty finder and increased story quest xp just killed the entire world this game has to offer. The people who have completed the main story on their main class will only be grinding duty finder due to getting rushed through for fast xp. Especially since the Fate xp nerfs. This means a large number of people will be seen in cities waiting on ques, while all the new players are out in an empty world doing the story quests...and not much else. At this rate, they might as well take out the world and just make the game lobby-based client. That loads you into an area/quest/dungeon with others needing to do it.
Things like this ruin the core of what an MMORPG is meant to be imo.
The game is a lobby game. There is pretty much no incentive to do anything in the world. It only serves as backdrop for the main story and to teleport to harvesting nodes.
Just going to chime in here and mention that you're posting on the wrong game forum (or are being sarcastic and I didn't catch it). Not sure which -- though the amount of incentive to go out in the world for FFXIV is currently oversaturated. Though perhaps this may have been cleared up with recent changes to ATMA, a lot of people leveling all their classes, completing the story, completing the hundreds and hundreds of side stories and side quests, beasts quests, Treasure Hunting, Beast Hunting, FATES, Leves, Chocobo Leveling/training/recolouring/racing, Triple Triad card acquisition, and even other areas such as Housing, Housing Districts, Gold Saucer, etc. By its very nature, areas have been completely full up to this current point (though maybe it's lowered a bit, as two years is a long time to keep as much usage as it has and the expansion is coming up) simply because of the way everything is constructed and connects. That is not even mentioning gathering, class quests, weekly quests, and a variety of other things.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Personally. I see no reason to have A quarrel with the casuals. I for one am a casual player which I do believe actually mainly refers to the amount of time you can or will put into the game. What does seem to be the problem is the loud mouth self centered children that the Devs, in some cases, seems to suddenly Carter to. I guess they after all are a pertty solid demography. Very unfortunate because they are so hard to care for, in a gaming invironment anyways, making themselves noticed in obscene ways. I as a casual would myself never ask for them to tailor the game around me me me. It is their vision let them keep it.
Yesterday I had a new player in our FC complaining in a way that I think actually shows this problem of character. Not that this is new or very exciting.Yes it is problematic. He/she said 'lol this instance is bad, so many dead players' - i asked him/her if he/she was sure it was'nt a question of the players being bad. Maybe I could have chosen another word, but the clear point remains. These people (Them, they) give up so easily and blame to harsh cruel world, never themselves.
All this said however I dont necessarily see mindless grinding as quality content. But in my view, creating gameworlds, that are made to be raced trough simply destroy the vast majority of a mmorpg. For various reasons. Sorry for spelling in advance.
You sound more like an elitist than you do a casual.
How can I be anything but casual only having on avarage max 2 hours to devote a day? But you don't hear me crying over content that are not automatically handed to me. But I am a paying costumer! They say..
When everything is being made acessible to everyone, When every single person demands a slice of the cake, the size of that slice simply diminishes. An all acessible, all streamlined, on rails, free loot and level give away is just boring. Why? Because the Challenge evaporate and the possibility for growth / learning does the same. I simply can not fathom players that do not want to be challenged in gaming. But I guess they are not here to improve, to get challenged, to set goals which they have to put in an effort to achieve. That what is left is shallow, easy and it wont push your limits in any way. The emotional aspects likely also diminish since they surely correlate with your investment, the level of the challenge at hand, and the responsability you have towards and share with others. So in short, These people, gets so much less out of their gaming experience. Some people likes to get more out of gaming and devote themselves even thou they dont have the ability to acess all content.
I would'nt want to drive a Mercedes with a Lada engine anyhow.
Personally. I see no reason to have A quarrel with the casuals. I for one am a casual player which I do believe actually mainly refers to the amount of time you can or will put into the game. What does seem to be the problem is the loud mouth self centered children that the Devs, in some cases, seems to suddenly Carter to. I guess they after all are a pertty solid demography. Very unfortunate because they are so hard to care for, in a gaming invironment anyways, making themselves noticed in obscene ways. I as a casual would myself never ask for them to tailor the game around me me me. It is their vision let them keep it.
Yesterday I had a new player in our FC complaining in a way that I think actually shows this problem of character. Not that this is new or very exciting.Yes it is problematic. He/she said 'lol this instance is bad, so many dead players' - i asked him/her if he/she was sure it was'nt a question of the players being bad. Maybe I could have chosen another word, but the clear point remains. These people (Them, they) give up so easily and blame to harsh cruel world, never themselves.
All this said however I dont necessarily see mindless grinding as quality content. But in my view, creating gameworlds, that are made to be raced trough simply destroy the vast majority of a mmorpg. For various reasons. Sorry for spelling in advance.
You sound more like an elitist than you do a casual.
How can I be anything but casual only having on avarage max 2 hours to devote a day? But you don't hear me crying over content that are not automatically handed to me. But I am a paying costumer! They say..
When everything is being made acessible to everyone, When every single person demands a slice of the cake, the size of that slice simply diminishes. An all acessible, all streamlined, on rails, free loot and level give away is just boring. Why? Because the Challenge evaporate and the possibility for growth / learning does the same. I simply can not fathom players that do not want to be challenged in gaming. But I guess they are not here to improve, to get challenged, to set goals which they have to put in an effort to achieve. That what is left is shallow, easy and it wont push your limits in any way. The emotional aspects likely also diminish since they surely correlate with your investment, the level of the challenge at hand, and the responsability you have towards and share with others. So in short, These people, gets so much less out of their gaming experience. Some people likes to get more out of gaming and devote themselves even thou they dont have the ability to acess all content.
I would'nt want to drive a Mercedes with a Lada engine anyhow.
Dude, playing 2 hours a day does not make you a casual. Attitude is what makes you an elitist or casual. I simply said based on your post you sound more like an elitist than you do a casual. If it walks like a duck.....
Actually, the game dies if too many people start to *leave* the game, and revenue begins to decrease.
The game could very well stop getting new players. So long as it has enough to sustain its development... then it stays as it is.
It doesn't die or grow.
Players will always leaves regardless of how the game is, you need new blood to sustain an MMO. This is fact, no debate about it. The harder an MMO is for new players to access the less will access it, and the majority who do will quit before they reach any kind of end game. Meanwhile, current players are always leaving. Sinking ship is sinking, fact. Why people like you think allowing new players to progress quicker than you did is bad for an MMO is baffling to me. Get over the "not fair!!" crap and think about it.
There will be less players grinding in the world, so what? Are you hanging out in newbie zones all day?
Whoah... Slow down there. Did you even read what I said?
I was merely commenting on the fact that, and I'll summarize it again: "As long as a game maintains enough people to sustain active development, and doesn't lose too many, it will do fine".
There are MMORPGs out there, and listed on this very site, proving this as we speak. They aren't growing very much, if at all, but they have a loyal, core playerbase that brings in enough revenue to keep the game going.
That is literally all I was talking about.
Yet somehow, from that... you go off on some rant...
"Why people like you think allowing new players to progress quicker than you did is bad for an MMO is baffling to me. Get over the "not fair!!" crap and think about it."
What the fuck are you rambling about? "People like me"? "Not fair" crap? I didn't even *comment* on any of that in my post. Are you hallucinating?
"There will be less players grinding in the world, so what? Are you hanging out in newbie zones all day?"
Again, what the fuck are you talking about? I commented on none of that.
My post was about exactly what I said. Read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of this post again if you've forgotten already, and need a refresher.
See, this is the problem with attempting to engage in *any* kind of discussion on forums like these. It's because there are so many people like you, who will - presumably - read a post, and then go off on these tangents, hurling strawmen around like confetti, arguing things that weren't even said in the post your'e replying to.
Seriously people... If you're going to take the time to respond to someone's post, at least have the decency and honesty to actually, and thoroughly read their entire post first, and then respond to what they actually said; don't go off on tangents about things they didn't say.
It's freaking ridiculous the way people can be around here.
Comments
The game is a lobby game. There is pretty much no incentive to do anything in the world. It only serves as backdrop for the main story and to teleport to harvesting nodes.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Lets be honest players of FFXIV. The first class/job to end level was allready doable by doing the main quest, with some side quests and maybe some fates. This will not be any different. How many times can you do the main quest? The all classes/jobs on one char will still be the hard work.
I am happy to read there will be less forced duties in the main quest from lvl 50 to 60. I know fellow players who love the gather and craft part of the game. They hated the grind for gear to get a minimal ilevel to do a hated duty to progress in the main quest.
After finishing main quest its all about what you want to do. Leveling other classes/jobs, grinding with friends the best gear, crafting and gathering.
So yes, I am happy to see even the most casual of casual players can finish the main quest, but I hope and pray the handholding ends at that point. But what you want to do after that point should still be hard work.
Want lets be honest. If a game is made to casual friendly, people leave, because the same casual people crying out we are bored, there is nothing to do.
And please do not nerf the fates. Its one of the most social events in the game. The cry of Svara in coerthas or DD in Northern T bringing nice memories. Groups are fast formed (DD) to get out the heals correctly. Need to do on the extra class/job only dungeons will be boring compared to the running around in Fates
ppl need to understand that the only way to enter a NO LEVEL SYNC dungeon u need to be on premade party , because the duty finder will still use full party level sync.
a lvl 60 will be able to help lvl 20 on dungeon and solo it? yeah going to the door and entereing...but if both of them queue for that dungeon they will be synced down to 20 .
the exp boost while leveling isnt killing the world , to level 1-50 u needed to do every side quests and on top of that u were short on levels and had to fates, repeat dungeons or do levequests.
Giving doble exp in MSQ is like if Swtor double exp the class quest , is NICE but not enough to let u level just on that.
Players will always leaves regardless of how the game is, you need new blood to sustain an MMO. This is fact, no debate about it. The harder an MMO is for new players to access the less will access it, and the majority who do will quit before they reach any kind of end game. Meanwhile, current players are always leaving. Sinking ship is sinking, fact. Why people like you think allowing new players to progress quicker than you did is bad for an MMO is baffling to me. Get over the "not fair!!" crap and think about it.
There will be less players grinding in the world, so what? Are you hanging out in newbie zones all day?
You sound more like an elitist than you do a casual.
Game discussion always seems to deteriorate into people discussion.
Just going to chime in here and mention that you're posting on the wrong game forum (or are being sarcastic and I didn't catch it). Not sure which -- though the amount of incentive to go out in the world for FFXIV is currently oversaturated. Though perhaps this may have been cleared up with recent changes to ATMA, a lot of people leveling all their classes, completing the story, completing the hundreds and hundreds of side stories and side quests, beasts quests, Treasure Hunting, Beast Hunting, FATES, Leves, Chocobo Leveling/training/recolouring/racing, Triple Triad card acquisition, and even other areas such as Housing, Housing Districts, Gold Saucer, etc. By its very nature, areas have been completely full up to this current point (though maybe it's lowered a bit, as two years is a long time to keep as much usage as it has and the expansion is coming up) simply because of the way everything is constructed and connects. That is not even mentioning gathering, class quests, weekly quests, and a variety of other things.
How can I be anything but casual only having on avarage max 2 hours to devote a day? But you don't hear me crying over content that are not automatically handed to me. But I am a paying costumer! They say..
When everything is being made acessible to everyone, When every single person demands a slice of the cake, the size of that slice simply diminishes. An all acessible, all streamlined, on rails, free loot and level give away is just boring. Why? Because the Challenge evaporate and the possibility for growth / learning does the same. I simply can not fathom players that do not want to be challenged in gaming. But I guess they are not here to improve, to get challenged, to set goals which they have to put in an effort to achieve. That what is left is shallow, easy and it wont push your limits in any way. The emotional aspects likely also diminish since they surely correlate with your investment, the level of the challenge at hand, and the responsability you have towards and share with others. So in short, These people, gets so much less out of their gaming experience. Some people likes to get more out of gaming and devote themselves even thou they dont have the ability to acess all content.
I would'nt want to drive a Mercedes with a Lada engine anyhow.
Dude, playing 2 hours a day does not make you a casual. Attitude is what makes you an elitist or casual. I simply said based on your post you sound more like an elitist than you do a casual. If it walks like a duck.....
Whoah... Slow down there. Did you even read what I said?
I was merely commenting on the fact that, and I'll summarize it again: "As long as a game maintains enough people to sustain active development, and doesn't lose too many, it will do fine".
There are MMORPGs out there, and listed on this very site, proving this as we speak. They aren't growing very much, if at all, but they have a loyal, core playerbase that brings in enough revenue to keep the game going.
That is literally all I was talking about.
Yet somehow, from that... you go off on some rant...
"Why people like you think allowing new players to progress quicker than you did is bad for an MMO is baffling to me. Get over the "not fair!!" crap and think about it."
What the fuck are you rambling about? "People like me"? "Not fair" crap? I didn't even *comment* on any of that in my post. Are you hallucinating?
"There will be less players grinding in the world, so what? Are you hanging out in newbie zones all day?"
Again, what the fuck are you talking about? I commented on none of that.
My post was about exactly what I said. Read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of this post again if you've forgotten already, and need a refresher.
See, this is the problem with attempting to engage in *any* kind of discussion on forums like these. It's because there are so many people like you, who will - presumably - read a post, and then go off on these tangents, hurling strawmen around like confetti, arguing things that weren't even said in the post your'e replying to.
Seriously people... If you're going to take the time to respond to someone's post, at least have the decency and honesty to actually, and thoroughly read their entire post first, and then respond to what they actually said; don't go off on tangents about things they didn't say.
It's freaking ridiculous the way people can be around here.