Landmark should be part of EQN. They really dropped the ball on that one. They had a chance to be different and take things to the next level.
I've been right every single time when I say "This game is going to be trash", and the universe is giving me the same vibe about EQN. Smedley displays a high level of sociopathic behavior and is a compulsive liar. I can't stand that dude or his nonsense.
SOE/Daybreak bit off more than they could chew, and there was/is apparently some deep internal conflict over the future direction of the game, maybe even down to the very basics. Are Voxels too demanding to hardware? Is cartoony really a good decision?
I'd go with this.
On paper it sounds pretty amazing for a mmorpg to have all the features proposed.
Unfortunately, delivering on such promises isn't easy.
Forgelight isn't the best engine in the world and strapping on Voxel Farm and doing things never attempted before has to be complicated. Trying to then add in caves/tiers, action combat, and a hyped AI is a recipe for delay and a hard road ahead.
EQ2 had a pretty dismal release and is still around today, I have no doubt that EQN won't do as well. Not that I played EQ2 more than a few days...
No clue who made decisions to make Landmark as stand a lone game first instead of just going with a Pre-Alpha of EQN or who decided on the style of reveal and detail releases, but if Georgeson or Butler were behind them, I understand why they are gone.
In the end, EQN might not live up to the promises, but until then, I'm not going to worry over pixels.
So lets assume this isn't a doom post, but rather this is a post about the opposite. About how well EQN is doing and what a success story the games development is turning out to be.
What things could someone point out that would reinforce such a claim?
I think the lack of those examples really reinforces the point the original poster brings up and others have echoed.
I'm sure people would rather talk about the awesome things they see, but those seem to be lacking, so they talk about what they do see.
Landmark.
Replace the name with EQN and they have something to show for their time, however, like the OP said, that progress has slowed way down and at this point some of the key features promised like AI and decent Combat are missing.
I wouldn't call EQN's development a success story, but they have a decent amount to show for their time, especially considering they are working with Voxel Farm which wasn't done at this level or way that I know of.
The bit off more than they could chew belief is probably spot on and they seem to be figuring it out as time marches on. How far they'll make it before they put a "final" stamp on it is unknown.
If they don't show off the AI by the end of the year, I'm betting it isn't going to "blow my socks off."
But at the bottom line, it really baffles me, that after 2-3 years, the company is not able to even show a playable alpha footage, and all we can see is Landmark, which by all means doesn't count as a VERY barebone tech demo.
Not sure what you consider "Alpha" footage, but if you've seen better from another game, please point it out.
By all means, Landmark = EQN's Pre-Alpha or whatever you want to call it and it has quite a lot going for it.
There is a ton lacking, but typically pre-alpha or alpha stages aren't meant to have fully developed systems nor the entire game ready to show off.
They clearly have many of the foundation pieces built, that work, but they still need to finish building the house on top and then add in the entertainment system, furniture, family pics on the wall, put the food in the fridge.
Anyone who wasn't emotionally invested in Landmark/EQN knows in their heart this game is very likely to be vaporware. Simple truth. Like many people said in the other huge thread, there's way too many signs, and way too much of a lack of confidence and lack of specific details (i.e. spinning, etc) for anyone who isnt/wasnt emotionally invested in this game to be able to objectively look at and not come to to the conclusion that the game is in serious trouble.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Landmark should be part of EQN. They really dropped the ball on that one. They had a chance to be different and take things to the next level.
I've been right every single time when I say "This game is going to be trash", and the universe is giving me the same vibe about EQN. Smedley displays a high level of sociopathic behavior and is a compulsive liar. I can't stand that dude or his nonsense.
The reason people are antsy and baffled is because they no longer understand what the terms alpha and beta ACTUALLY mean as opposed to what the mean in a marketing lead industry.
SOE as it was went ahead and made announcements before they even had an Alpha build candidate, they barely had a technical demo of their product. So in real terms they announced the game 4 years before it would be at RC stage.
They are now in the middle of development a phase where base requirements for an alpha build are laid down but and heres the big part, none of it is ready, its actually being made, once they are at Alpha stage I can pretty much guarantee they will come out with a founders pack announcement, but having announced their game so early, they are in a phase of creation where there simply isnt anything to show yet, because its all 80% ready, once its a bit nearer you start bolting it together (remember most mmos are designed in modular fashion and then pushed together and then content is put around that frame work).
So the bulk of the work has probably been done, but the bulk of the product is not quite ready to leave the oven yet.
The time to worry is if this time next year there still isnt a playable version of the game. (Alpha or Beta)
The reason people are antsy and baffled is because they no longer understand what the terms alpha and beta ACTUALLY mean as opposed to what the mean in a marketing lead industry.
SOE as it was went ahead and made announcements before they even had an Alpha build candidate, they barely had a technical demo of their product. So in real terms they announced the game 4 years before it would be at RC stage.
They are now in the middle of development a phase where base requirements for an alpha build are laid down but and heres the big part, none of it is ready, its actually being made, once they are at Alpha stage I can pretty much guarantee they will come out with a founders pack announcement, but having announced their game so early, they are in a phase of creation where there simply isnt anything to show yet, because its all 80% ready, once its a bit nearer you start bolting it together (remember most mmos are designed in modular fashion and then pushed together and then content is put around that frame work).
So the bulk of the work has probably been done, but the bulk of the product is not quite ready to leave the oven yet.
The time to worry is if this time next year there still isnt a playable version of the game. (Alpha or Beta)
Most MMOers have not been part of an Alpha till paid Alphas started. I also find it sad that people who have been MMOs fans for years and years still dont get when the flow of info starts. Not till the game is locked down and they know their systems will work. Only then does the real info start. In my 17 years of MMOing, its plain to see that the real info only starts flowing when you get to the end of to the start of open beta. This is for many reasons and most has to do with the business end of things. Any MMOer worth their salt knows this. For the stage of development EQN is in (mostly RD) the devs have been very active with the fans. Sad that many see this as a negative thing. Like DGC is trying to hide things with their openness with what they can share.
Originally posted by SlyLoK I dont think EQN is in trouble. I just think they should have never bothered with Landmark.
yeah , however it was a good idea , letting player create the Art or give ideas for the actual game.....all of that while paying for it lol
Its beyond smart. Players have taught DGC more things about voxels then even the creator of Voxel Farms knew the tech could be pushed to. The quality of the builds are much greater because of players. Art wise, the game would not look nearly as good without Landmark voxelmancers.
The first clue was the 20 minute "sand painting" during the big release event for EQ Next. The second clue was their "gameplay demo" where the NPCs did nothing but stand there while two characters swung their weapons. The third clue was the surprise announcement of EQ Landmark at the end of that fiasco.
All of that showed you a total lack of any direction and a complete lack of an actual product.
A year and a half later the company has been sold to another "investment group" that has no actual game experience, the team working on EQ Next has been halved, and there still has not been nothing released about the game and nothing about any of the systems within the game. In fact, the ONLY thing released was the fact they are not going with the storybrick system.
There is no EQ Next. There never was. They had some sort of blueprint of things they would like to accomplish, but all of that ended when they became DBG.
They are just trying to make a bridge between the EQ Next/Landmark disaster to morphing it into an Everquest themed MOBA, Heroes of Norrath or something like that. I am sure they will also tie in some mobile "game" that is EQ themed.
If they actually DID released EQ Next or announce something tangible, it would be a traditional theme park ESO-esque MMO, which I guess would be better than nothing but clearly nothing like what was originally expected.
Originally posted by Hrimnir Anyone who wasn't emotionally invested in Landmark/EQN knows in their heart this game is very likely to be vaporware. Simple truth. Like many people said in the other huge thread, there's way too many signs, and way too much of a lack of confidence and lack of specific details (i.e. spinning, etc) for anyone who isnt/wasnt emotionally invested in this game to be able to objectively look at and not come to to the conclusion that the game is in serious trouble.
Lack of information means absolutely nothing. Games routinely go years without announcing anything. For instance, Fallout 4 has been, in development, in some way or another, for the past 5 years. So if Fallout 4 has been in development for 5 years, why are we only hearing about it now? The easiest answer is that we only hear about games when developers have their ducks in a row and are going to be able to remain accountable to the customers.
SOE effed EQN big time! EQN never should have been announced when it was. I think it was more about making an "all-in" move than it was about making a strategic move. As a result, Daybreak now has to deal with a game that is/has been chronically behind schedule. Hence the recent move to re-prioritize the Landmark Team to EQN.
EQN is far from dead. In fact, I think that EQN is probably a very key component to Daybreak's plans for the future. Remember that CN is a venture capital company, so they've got an exit strategy of some sort, I'm sure. However, in order to get there, they'll need to have something of value.
Originally posted by SlyLoK I dont think EQN is in trouble. I just think they should have never bothered with Landmark.
yeah , however it was a good idea , letting player create the Art or give ideas for the actual game.....all of that while paying for it lol
Its beyond smart. Players have taught DGC more things about voxels then even the creator of Voxel Farms knew the tech could be pushed to. The quality of the builds are much greater because of players. Art wise, the game would not look nearly as good without Landmark voxelmancers.
I think what Nan says here is true also.
Are you playing on Ragefire btw Nan? A druid? I think I saw your name in game the other day.
Originally posted by SlyLoK I dont think EQN is in trouble. I just think they should have never bothered with Landmark.
yeah , however it was a good idea , letting player create the Art or give ideas for the actual game.....all of that while paying for it lol
Its beyond smart. Players have taught DGC more things about voxels then even the creator of Voxel Farms knew the tech could be pushed to. The quality of the builds are much greater because of players. Art wise, the game would not look nearly as good without Landmark voxelmancers.
I think what Nan says here is true also.
Are you playing on Ragefire btw Nan? A druid? I think I saw your name in game the other day.
Sadly no =- My wife hates EQ1, otherwise I would be there hardcore =-) She really hates the UI, first time I ever seen her yell at a game lol
Originally posted by SlyLoK I dont think EQN is in trouble. I just think they should have never bothered with Landmark.
yeah , however it was a good idea , letting player create the Art or give ideas for the actual game.....all of that while paying for it lol
Its beyond smart. Players have taught DGC more things about voxels then even the creator of Voxel Farms knew the tech could be pushed to. The quality of the builds are much greater because of players. Art wise, the game would not look nearly as good without Landmark voxelmancers.
I think what Nan says here is true also.
Are you playing on Ragefire btw Nan? A druid? I think I saw your name in game the other day.
Sadly no =- My wife hates EQ1, otherwise I would be there hardcore =-) She really hates the UI, first time I ever seen her yell at a game lol
Ahh ok, fair enough. Tell her about the custom UIs out there though!
I honestly think it will end up being vapor-ware. They've already started over on it at least once, recently fired a bunch of the top developers, and just last week announced they were 'shifting focus to Everquest Next' (when I thought they had been focused on it all along). When you hear developers say those things years after an MMO announcement with very little to show for it....that's a recipe for eventual cancellation.
Originally posted by Hrimnir Anyone who wasn't emotionally invested in Landmark/EQN knows in their heart this game is very likely to be vaporware. Simple truth. Like many people said in the other huge thread, there's way too many signs, and way too much of a lack of confidence and lack of specific details (i.e. spinning, etc) for anyone who isnt/wasnt emotionally invested in this game to be able to objectively look at and not come to to the conclusion that the game is in serious trouble.
Not exactly true, I've never been a fan of the EQ franchise, yet the way I look at it is, anything can happen. As another poster pointed out Landmark is essentially the foundation for EQN, so in that sense plenty has been shown. If it were a few more years down the road I'd likely agree, yet this is an MMORPG we're talking about, as an example it took years and years for SWG to be built, Same with EQ2, or anything else SOE/DB has done, they showed little of those projects in that span of years. Considering it's still the same management behind the project....
SOE/DB has always been pretty much a talk yet not show kind of studio.That is part of the problem with them and what many studios have learned not to do, by them doing it. People love to talk about track records around here, well that's a big part of theirs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Landmark should be part of EQN. They really dropped the ball on that one. They had a chance to be different and take things to the next level.
I've been right every single time when I say "This game is going to be trash", and the universe is giving me the same vibe about EQN. Smedley displays a high level of sociopathic behavior and is a compulsive liar. I can't stand that dude or his nonsense.
I'd go with this.
On paper it sounds pretty amazing for a mmorpg to have all the features proposed.
Unfortunately, delivering on such promises isn't easy.
Forgelight isn't the best engine in the world and strapping on Voxel Farm and doing things never attempted before has to be complicated. Trying to then add in caves/tiers, action combat, and a hyped AI is a recipe for delay and a hard road ahead.
EQ2 had a pretty dismal release and is still around today, I have no doubt that EQN won't do as well. Not that I played EQ2 more than a few days...
No clue who made decisions to make Landmark as stand a lone game first instead of just going with a Pre-Alpha of EQN or who decided on the style of reveal and detail releases, but if Georgeson or Butler were behind them, I understand why they are gone.
In the end, EQN might not live up to the promises, but until then, I'm not going to worry over pixels.
Landmark.
Replace the name with EQN and they have something to show for their time, however, like the OP said, that progress has slowed way down and at this point some of the key features promised like AI and decent Combat are missing.
I wouldn't call EQN's development a success story, but they have a decent amount to show for their time, especially considering they are working with Voxel Farm which wasn't done at this level or way that I know of.
The bit off more than they could chew belief is probably spot on and they seem to be figuring it out as time marches on. How far they'll make it before they put a "final" stamp on it is unknown.
If they don't show off the AI by the end of the year, I'm betting it isn't going to "blow my socks off."
Not sure what you consider "Alpha" footage, but if you've seen better from another game, please point it out.
By all means, Landmark = EQN's Pre-Alpha or whatever you want to call it and it has quite a lot going for it.
There is a ton lacking, but typically pre-alpha or alpha stages aren't meant to have fully developed systems nor the entire game ready to show off.
They clearly have many of the foundation pieces built, that work, but they still need to finish building the house on top and then add in the entertainment system, furniture, family pics on the wall, put the food in the fridge.
I knew everquest next was dead a long time ago. Firing of the people along with dead silence about the game.
sad thing really, to let everquest die. landmark is crap.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
LOL haven't we been saying that for years. :-D
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
The reason people are antsy and baffled is because they no longer understand what the terms alpha and beta ACTUALLY mean as opposed to what the mean in a marketing lead industry.
SOE as it was went ahead and made announcements before they even had an Alpha build candidate, they barely had a technical demo of their product. So in real terms they announced the game 4 years before it would be at RC stage.
They are now in the middle of development a phase where base requirements for an alpha build are laid down but and heres the big part, none of it is ready, its actually being made, once they are at Alpha stage I can pretty much guarantee they will come out with a founders pack announcement, but having announced their game so early, they are in a phase of creation where there simply isnt anything to show yet, because its all 80% ready, once its a bit nearer you start bolting it together (remember most mmos are designed in modular fashion and then pushed together and then content is put around that frame work).
So the bulk of the work has probably been done, but the bulk of the product is not quite ready to leave the oven yet.
The time to worry is if this time next year there still isnt a playable version of the game. (Alpha or Beta)
Most MMOers have not been part of an Alpha till paid Alphas started. I also find it sad that people who have been MMOs fans for years and years still dont get when the flow of info starts. Not till the game is locked down and they know their systems will work. Only then does the real info start. In my 17 years of MMOing, its plain to see that the real info only starts flowing when you get to the end of to the start of open beta. This is for many reasons and most has to do with the business end of things. Any MMOer worth their salt knows this. For the stage of development EQN is in (mostly RD) the devs have been very active with the fans. Sad that many see this as a negative thing. Like DGC is trying to hide things with their openness with what they can share.
yeah , however it was a good idea , letting player create the Art or give ideas for the actual game.....all of that while paying for it lol
Its beyond smart. Players have taught DGC more things about voxels then even the creator of Voxel Farms knew the tech could be pushed to. The quality of the builds are much greater because of players. Art wise, the game would not look nearly as good without Landmark voxelmancers.
The first clue was the 20 minute "sand painting" during the big release event for EQ Next. The second clue was their "gameplay demo" where the NPCs did nothing but stand there while two characters swung their weapons. The third clue was the surprise announcement of EQ Landmark at the end of that fiasco.
All of that showed you a total lack of any direction and a complete lack of an actual product.
A year and a half later the company has been sold to another "investment group" that has no actual game experience, the team working on EQ Next has been halved, and there still has not been nothing released about the game and nothing about any of the systems within the game. In fact, the ONLY thing released was the fact they are not going with the storybrick system.
There is no EQ Next. There never was. They had some sort of blueprint of things they would like to accomplish, but all of that ended when they became DBG.
They are just trying to make a bridge between the EQ Next/Landmark disaster to morphing it into an Everquest themed MOBA, Heroes of Norrath or something like that. I am sure they will also tie in some mobile "game" that is EQ themed.
If they actually DID released EQ Next or announce something tangible, it would be a traditional theme park ESO-esque MMO, which I guess would be better than nothing but clearly nothing like what was originally expected.
Lack of information means absolutely nothing. Games routinely go years without announcing anything. For instance, Fallout 4 has been, in development, in some way or another, for the past 5 years. So if Fallout 4 has been in development for 5 years, why are we only hearing about it now? The easiest answer is that we only hear about games when developers have their ducks in a row and are going to be able to remain accountable to the customers.
SOE effed EQN big time! EQN never should have been announced when it was. I think it was more about making an "all-in" move than it was about making a strategic move. As a result, Daybreak now has to deal with a game that is/has been chronically behind schedule. Hence the recent move to re-prioritize the Landmark Team to EQN.
EQN is far from dead. In fact, I think that EQN is probably a very key component to Daybreak's plans for the future. Remember that CN is a venture capital company, so they've got an exit strategy of some sort, I'm sure. However, in order to get there, they'll need to have something of value.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
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I think what Nan says here is true also.
Are you playing on Ragefire btw Nan? A druid? I think I saw your name in game the other day.
Sadly no =- My wife hates EQ1, otherwise I would be there hardcore =-) She really hates the UI, first time I ever seen her yell at a game lol
Ahh ok, fair enough. Tell her about the custom UIs out there though!
Not exactly true, I've never been a fan of the EQ franchise, yet the way I look at it is, anything can happen. As another poster pointed out Landmark is essentially the foundation for EQN, so in that sense plenty has been shown. If it were a few more years down the road I'd likely agree, yet this is an MMORPG we're talking about, as an example it took years and years for SWG to be built, Same with EQ2, or anything else SOE/DB has done, they showed little of those projects in that span of years. Considering it's still the same management behind the project....
SOE/DB has always been pretty much a talk yet not show kind of studio.That is part of the problem with them and what many studios have learned not to do, by them doing it. People love to talk about track records around here, well that's a big part of theirs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson