Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

Mavolence · June 2015

Originally posted by Talonsin
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

I wasn't going to post anything here and just enjoy the show, but then I saw this little gem.

Yes, games by AAA companies fail all the time. But the vast majority of them don't take money up front for it. You and Assholeton took over $100K from people with the promise, moral obligation and (arguably) legal obligation to make the game that was featured. That game has now been cancelled due to lack of funding (yet you somehow have the money to make a shitty little zombie survival game). You don't just get to say, "We'll pay them back by giving them free stuff relating to a different game we want to make". That's horseshit, and you fucking know it.

AAA games sometimes take preorders, then wind up being cancelled. Know what happens? They refund the pre-orders! You on the other hand have taken the money and can't even account for it. You're not making the game, you're not doing anything with the IP, and you're not even honoring the agreement to ship out physical goods to those who paid for them. You owe those people either the game that was promised, or a refund. Period.

Don't have the money? Doesn't matter. As long as you live, you have earned income potential. If a court were so inclined they could place a lien on your home or car. They could intercept tax refunds, and garnish your wages. If it's determined that you are legally obligated to repay that money, they're going to get it from you one way or the other, one dollar at a time if need be. Same goes for Assholeton.

I hope you and all your pathetic scammer friends get sued to hell and back. Perhaps a decade of garnished wages will teach you to honor your commitments, though I doubt it.

I didn't donate to your game, and nor do I really care about it. But seeing people like you pull this shit and make it even harder for good, honest people to get the money they need to see their projects come to light pisses me right the fuck off. I'll be doing my best to make sure nobody patronizes any project with your name attached to it ever again, and I doubt I'm the only person on this site who will be doing so.

Lying, rotten, dishonest scumbag. I don't care if I get in trouble for saying it, it's the truth.

+1

Worth repeating. Shame

MrMelGibson · June 2015

Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by JamesP
Originally posted by Kabaal
Originally posted by JamesP or is it A or even PA!

As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

It doesn't work like that, you can't just say oh i have no money so i can't be sued.

Sued for what though? We made an effort to make the game... In the end we failed... Games by AAA Companies fail every day. You really expect us not to fail? We will make every effort to get back in to a position where we can attempt another MMO and when the time comes we will honor every single promise and pledge during our KS Campaign. We just do NOT have the funding to see this through to launch at this time.

I wasn't going to post anything here and just enjoy the show, but then I saw this little gem.

Yes, games by AAA companies fail all the time. But the vast majority of them don't take money up front for it. You and Assholeton took over $100K from people with the promise, moral obligation and (arguably) legal obligation to make the game that was featured. That game has now been cancelled due to lack of funding (yet you somehow have the money to make a shitty little zombie survival game). You don't just get to say, "We'll pay them back by giving them free stuff relating to a different game we want to make". That's horseshit, and you fucking know it.

AAA games sometimes take preorders, then wind up being cancelled. Know what happens? They refund the pre-orders! You on the other hand have taken the money and can't even account for it. You're not making the game, you're not doing anything with the IP, and you're not even honoring the agreement to ship out physical goods to those who paid for them. You owe those people either the game that was promised, or a refund. Period.

Don't have the money? Doesn't matter. As long as you live, you have earned income potential. If a court were so inclined they could place a lien on your home or car. They could intercept tax refunds, and garnish your wages. If it's determined that you are legally obligated to repay that money, they're going to get it from you one way or the other, one dollar at a time if need be. Same goes for Assholeton.

I hope you and all your pathetic scammer friends get sued to hell and back. Perhaps a decade of garnished wages will teach you to honor your commitments, though I doubt it.

I didn't donate to your game, and nor do I really care about it. But seeing people like you pull this shit and make it even harder for good, honest people to get the money they need to see their projects come to light pisses me right the fuck off. I'll be doing my best to make sure nobody patronizes any project with your name attached to it ever again, and I doubt I'm the only person on this site who will be doing so.

Lying, rotten, dishonest scumbag. I don't care if I get in trouble for saying it, it's the truth.

Well said. I can't believe he thinks those excuses are gonna fly. If I was one of the backers who spent a lot of money. I would do my best to take this guy to court. At least then you'll know they'll have to prove where the funds went.

Dibdabs · June 2015

Originally posted by eyelolled
Was this the same game that started out with "Appleton doesn't know anything about making an MMO - do not fund" and followed up with "I'll sue if you let your readers say mean things about me" ? Is that the same game?

It sure is. The fun never seems to end, does it...

TsaboHavoc · June 2015

THe internet cry for justice jason appleton CANT get away with it

ArChWind · June 2015

Originally posted by JamesP
Originally posted by Kabaal Originally posted by JamesP or is it A or even PA!

As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

It doesn't work like that, you can't just say oh i have no money so i can't be sued.

Sued for what though? We made an effort to make the game... In the end we failed... Games by AAA Companies fail every day. You really expect us not to fail? We will make every effort to get back in to a position where we can attempt another MMO and when the time comes we will honor every single promise and pledge during our KS Campaign. We just do NOT have the funding to see this through to launch at this time.

I was staying out of this but I want to point out a couple things.

first,

If it was not for the T-Shirts there probably would not be much of a problem with a so what attitude but because there was some tangible product which was not delivered and because it spanned across several states and countries it is under federal jurisdiction and is fraud. It will just a bit for the wheels of justice to start turning.

Secondly,

This is big slap in the face to those that are putting forth effort. Making arrogant statements can lead to some unwanted attention. You have been drawing disability and earning income which is another federal offence and can earn you 10 to 30 years if someone presses the matter.

I suggest this thread get closed and GM die here and now.

Myobi · June 2015

^ I hope not, he deserves all that.

nariusseldon · June 2015

Originally posted by collekt
Originally posted by nariusseldon
no. I am saying why bother with it? If indeed it produces something i like .. i will buy it when it is a product. If they can't produce anything ... i just go some place else for entertainment .. there is no lack of that.

hmm .. i don't preorder ... and everything I bought is fun .. because I do research .. but that is besides the point. Preoder does NOT risk not having anything. That is a big difference, don't you think? You can accept any risk you want. May be you go to vegas and gamble too .. does not mean i will say gambling is a good thing.

And again, if there is fraud in KS .. it is facts .. and don't you think people should know about them .. and judge KS with that in mind?

And what is the bad practice in cash shop? Pay to win? Well .. sure you can call it bad if you don't like it .. at least it is not fraud and whales know exactly what they get.

You are confused between a product (pay-2-win) that you disapprove and bad practice (encouraging fraud).

Crowdfunding is clearly not for you, so just stay away from it. Just because you don't want to help fund a project you're passionate about doesn't mean it's a bad idea. My favorite part of crowdfunding is that it enables a developer to raise money for a project that they may not be able to secure funding for through the normal channels. This also gives them independence to develop the game they want without having to answer to overbearing publishers. Will there be cases of fraud or projects not being completed? Sure there will, but there will also be great projects completed as well. Think of it as an investment, you're helping enable a project to be undertaken. Investments always have risks. This is why you should research and only invest in something that you believe is likely to provide you with a return on that investment. There is no burden on anyone to convince you that crowdfunding isn't evil. Investing isn't for you and that's cool, just stick to buying games off the shelf.

Of course I am. You don't think i will waste even a cent of my money on KS, do you?

Well ... it is a mightily bad idea if you look at it as an investment. You get all the down side, and none of the up side. Will you buy a stock where you will share NONE of the rewards if the product sells well, and you are left holding the bag if it tanks?

The return on investment on ANY KS project is at most a game .. which does not worth anything more than a normal game price (and many are indie and would worth very little). So yes, a ROI calculation will review that you are risking a lot for almost no return.

FeralLoki · June 2015

Noted, never touch anything James Proctor has touched.

MrSnuffles · June 2015

Originally posted by ArChWind

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by Kabaal

Originally posted by JamesP or is it A or even PA!

As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

It doesn't work like that, you can't just say oh i have no money so i can't be sued.

Sued for what though? We made an effort to make the game... In the end we failed... Games by AAA Companies fail every day. You really expect us not to fail? We will make every effort to get back in to a position where we can attempt another MMO and when the time comes we will honor every single promise and pledge during our KS Campaign. We just do NOT have the funding to see this through to launch at this time.

I was staying out of this but I want to point out a couple things.

first,

If it was not for the T-Shirts there probably would not be much of a problem with a so what attitude but because there was some tangible product which was not delivered and because it spanned across several states and countries it is under federal jurisdiction and is fraud. It will just a bit for the wheels of justice to start turning.

Secondly,

This is big slap in the face to those that are putting forth effort. Making arrogant statements can lead to some unwanted attention. You have been drawing disability and earning income which is another federal offence and can earn you 10 to 30 years if someone presses the matter.

I suggest this thread get closed and GM die here and now.

1: TRUE! Kickstarter EULA explicitly states that physical rewards must be delivered or they will take legal action. The backers just need to write to Kickstarter that the T-Shirts have not been delivered and the game has been canceled.

2: I agree, i would be very careful with what i say if i where JamesP.

Solar_Prophet · June 2015

Originally posted by MrSnuffles
Originally posted by ArChWind

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by Kabaal

Originally posted by JamesP or is it A or even PA!

As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

It doesn't work like that, you can't just say oh i have no money so i can't be sued.

Sued for what though? We made an effort to make the game... In the end we failed... Games by AAA Companies fail every day. You really expect us not to fail? We will make every effort to get back in to a position where we can attempt another MMO and when the time comes we will honor every single promise and pledge during our KS Campaign. We just do NOT have the funding to see this through to launch at this time.

I was staying out of this but I want to point out a couple things.

first,

If it was not for the T-Shirts there probably would not be much of a problem with a so what attitude but because there was some tangible product which was not delivered and because it spanned across several states and countries it is under federal jurisdiction and is fraud. It will just a bit for the wheels of justice to start turning.

Secondly,

This is big slap in the face to those that are putting forth effort. Making arrogant statements can lead to some unwanted attention. You have been drawing disability and earning income which is another federal offence and can earn you 10 to 30 years if someone presses the matter.

I suggest this thread get closed and GM die here and now.

1: TRUE! Kickstarter EULA explicitly states that physical rewards must be delivered or they will take legal action. The backers just need to write to Kickstarter that the T-Shirts have not been delivered and the game has been canceled.

2: I agree, i would be very careful with what i say if i where JamesP.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm sorry if somebody has mentioned it before, but what if this whole charade was / is an attempt to deliberately obfuscate the issue at hand if they do get sued? All this asset switching, convoluted accounting, back-alley dealing and contracts, etc. would make one hell of a screwed up paper trail. It won't stop a good, determined lawyer, but most lawyers would probably look at the time needed to unravel it and decide that 100K isn't worth the hassle. Not to mention the legal fees that would have to be paid by the plaintiff. Don't forget, Assholeton has been all but proven to be a 'professional' con man. He probably knows how to cover his ass, and it sounds like something he would do.

Just something to think about...

MrMelGibson · June 2015

Originally posted by FeralLoki
Noted, never touch anything James Proctor has touched.

Don't worry, you won't. He'd have to actually complete and release something for that to happen.

MrSnuffles · June 2015

Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by MrSnuffles
1: TRUE! Kickstarter EULA explicitly states that physical rewards must be delivered or they will take legal action. The backers just need to write to Kickstarter that the T-Shirts have not been delivered and the game has been canceled.

2: I agree, i would be very careful with what i say if i where JamesP.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm sorry if somebody has mentioned it before, but what if this whole charade was / is an attempt to deliberately obfuscate the issue at hand if they do get sued? All this asset switching, convoluted accounting, back-alley dealing and contracts, etc. would make one hell of a screwed up paper trail. It won't stop a good, determined lawyer, but most lawyers would probably look at the time needed to unravel it and decide that 100K isn't worth the hassle. Not to mention the legal fees that would have to be paid by the plaintiff. Don't forget, Assholeton has been all but proven to be a 'professional' con man. He probably knows how to cover his ass, and it sounds like something he would do.

Just something to think about...

He can't transfer the contractual obligation he had with Kickstarter. Jason Appleton is the one responsible for the Kickstarter promises. No legal document can change that.

Azrilee · June 2015

Originally posted by MrSnuffles
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by MrSnuffles
1: TRUE! Kickstarter EULA explicitly states that physical rewards must be delivered or they will take legal action. The backers just need to write to Kickstarter that the T-Shirts have not been delivered and the game has been canceled.

2: I agree, i would be very careful with what i say if i where JamesP.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm sorry if somebody has mentioned it before, but what if this whole charade was / is an attempt to deliberately obfuscate the issue at hand if they do get sued? All this asset switching, convoluted accounting, back-alley dealing and contracts, etc. would make one hell of a screwed up paper trail. It won't stop a good, determined lawyer, but most lawyers would probably look at the time needed to unravel it and decide that 100K isn't worth the hassle. Not to mention the legal fees that would have to be paid by the plaintiff. Don't forget, Assholeton has been all but proven to be a 'professional' con man. He probably knows how to cover his ass, and it sounds like something he would do.

Just something to think about...

He can't transfer the contractual obligation he had with Kickstarter. Jason Appleton is the one responsible for the Kickstarter promises. No legal document can change that.

This is false. An oblgation or debt can certainly be transfered by a legal document, it happens all the time when one company buys out another company.

As far as if this whole thing ( passing control around) is just a smokescreen... I doubt it. Proctor and Joel Lumpy are not very bright people. I mean, the bigget scam of all of this is that these to kids were ever taken seriously. Proctor is just some loser living with his mother who has never done anything or completed any type of project. Joel, mister supreme business man and maker of brands.. can´t even afford to send out a couple dozen t-shirts.

And that really needs to be brought up just as much as Appleton. Joel Lumpy and Proctor received $20,000 in software and licenses in exchange for mailing out a few dozen t-shirts... and still, they haven´t been able to do that..

Slapshot1188 · June 2015

Uh-oh... Jason, James and Lumpyman better watch out!

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/crowdfunded-game-developer-bows-to-ftc-pressure/

Trekkan · June 2015

Maybe I should create, www.fundmylawsuit.com and have people donate to help pay the legal fees against such people...

bartoni33 · June 2015

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Uh-oh... Jason, James and Lumpyman better watch out!

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/crowdfunded-game-developer-bows-to-ftc-pressure/

Yep I was just going to post this here. I made a thread about it in the General forums. Here's the jist of it:

Feds are finally going after CF scams. Who wants to bet Jason Appleton and conspirators are feeling a little uneasy right now?

Here is the linky to the story: http://news.yahoo.com/federal-regulators-crowdfunding-scam-133408224--finance.html

Lets hope this clears out the folks that are truly scammers so the CF world gets more popular.

EDIT: This little paragraph is very relevant to the shitstorm that is Greed Monger:

"While this week's FTC settlement is a warning to online scammers, it also reveals the limits to which the government can protect consumers: Chevalier has been ordered to repay the money, but the judgment has been suspended because he doesn't have any. Otherwise, the settlement prohibits him from lying about future crowdfunding campaigns"

Chevalier is the guy that scammed folks with the Board Game that he never worked on.

So actually per James himself you can't sue him because he has no money. But this could mean we won't see his crappy Zombie game #765465765 on KS anytime soon.

OhhPaigey · June 2015

Lol. Could that news post come at a better possible time?

kikoodutroa8 · June 2015

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Uh-oh... Jason, James and Lumpyman better watch out!

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/crowdfunded-game-developer-bows-to-ftc-pressure/

Someone at FTC is mad he didn't get his board game.

But hey, in order to avoid such problems with the law, I can imagine how failed KS mmos will now release half baked crap before closing. Like, if they release an half baked alpha and call it "release", even for 2 days, they can say they delivered their product and thus avoid being charged.

bartoni33 · June 2015

Originally posted by kikoodutroa8
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Uh-oh... Jason, James and Lumpyman better watch out!

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/crowdfunded-game-developer-bows-to-ftc-pressure/

Someone at FTC is mad he didn't get his board game.

But hey, in order to avoid such problems with the law, I can imagine how failed KS mmos will now release half baked crap before closing. Like, if they release an half baked alpha and call it "release", even for 2 days, they can say they delivered their product and thus avoid being charged.

Well that would prolly be enough "legally" to get them out of hot water. In the case of the guy in the story he didn't even go that far.

My hope is that it will stop scammers from even trying. IMHO Greed Monger wasn't an out-and-out scam, at least in the beginning. But somewhere along the way they had to know they would not be able to deliver on their promises.

Oh yeah, Jason and Joel, one word:

CUSTOMINK.COM

Yamota · June 2015

And this is why I will never again put up any money for a crowd funded game. They can just take the money and run, with little recourse for those poor saps who got fooled into giving them money.

And just to be clear, I did not pay anything for Greed Monger, but rather it was for an MMO RTS called Novus Aeterno. That was 3 years ago and the game is still not released or even in beta.

Don't pay for crowdfunding guys. It is most likely a scam, at worst, and a failed project at best.

EDIT: Just to be clear. Novus Aeterno is not in the state GM is. You can download and play the game but the state is something like Alpha. And this for a game which has been in development for around 5 years.

Torik · June 2015

Originally posted by bartoni33
Originally posted by kikoodutroa8
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Uh-oh... Jason, James and Lumpyman better watch out!

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/crowdfunded-game-developer-bows-to-ftc-pressure/

Someone at FTC is mad he didn't get his board game.

But hey, in order to avoid such problems with the law, I can imagine how failed KS mmos will now release half baked crap before closing. Like, if they release an half baked alpha and call it "release", even for 2 days, they can say they delivered their product and thus avoid being charged.

Well that would prolly be enough "legally" to get them out of hot water. In the case of the guy in the story he didn't even go that far.

My hope is that it will stop scammers from even trying. IMHO Greed Monger wasn't an out-and-out scam, at least in the beginning. But somewhere along the way they had to know they would not be able to deliver on their promises.

In this case the guy publicly stated that he hired artists to do the artwork and he had no way of proving that when the FTC came knocking. He also charged personal items to the company. Guess he was too sloppy and/or greedy to even fake "good faith" development of the game.

TheeLord · June 2015

This behavior sickens me to no end!!!! My team and I have spent years and years since 2008! building the backend of our game, making it solid first, then adding fancy graphics etc... Not asking for any money to do it, not asking for noteriety etc... This guy was a SNAKE and belongs in Jail! I made multiple posts on different forums saying this was a scam and not to buy into it when it was first posted. Even if they had intentions of making the game, they were being very dishonest about how far along they were and how long it would take them to complete. It was glaringly obvious to me (as a programmer, and Unity dev) that he had simply gotten some pre-made assets from the Unity Asset store, stuck them in a scene, walked around and said in his video that "the game will be done within months, look at our awesome progress, give us money".

Now people are that much less inclined to trust other honest indie devs like myself that have been putting years into their games and deserve the shot that was given to that horrible human being. /rant off =(

MrSnuffles · June 2015

Originally posted by Azrilee
Originally posted by MrSnuffles
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by MrSnuffles
1: TRUE! Kickstarter EULA explicitly states that physical rewards must be delivered or they will take legal action. The backers just need to write to Kickstarter that the T-Shirts have not been delivered and the game has been canceled.

2: I agree, i would be very careful with what i say if i where JamesP.

I've been thinking about this, and I'm sorry if somebody has mentioned it before, but what if this whole charade was / is an attempt to deliberately obfuscate the issue at hand if they do get sued? All this asset switching, convoluted accounting, back-alley dealing and contracts, etc. would make one hell of a screwed up paper trail. It won't stop a good, determined lawyer, but most lawyers would probably look at the time needed to unravel it and decide that 100K isn't worth the hassle. Not to mention the legal fees that would have to be paid by the plaintiff. Don't forget, Assholeton has been all but proven to be a 'professional' con man. He probably knows how to cover his ass, and it sounds like something he would do.

Just something to think about...

He can't transfer the contractual obligation he had with Kickstarter. Jason Appleton is the one responsible for the Kickstarter promises. No legal document can change that.

This is false. An oblgation or debt can certainly be transfered by a legal document, it happens all the time when one company buys out another company.

The Kickstarter is with Jason Appleton personally. He could declare bankruptcy but he can not transfer the obligations to another person unless the Kickstarter/The Backers agree to holding this other company/person liable. The same is true for your credit card debt, your bank has to agree to hold someone else liable for your debt.

In any case, with these jokers there is no legal company to transfer anything. I doubt that Jason or James actually had a legal company at all.

nariusseldon · June 2015

Originally posted by MrSnuffles

In any case, with these jokers there is no legal company to transfer anything. I doubt that Jason or James actually had a legal company at all.

yeh .. all these legal talk is just .. talk. All the money was long gone, and there is nothing to recover.

I wouldn't mind to see them put in jail as an example though, if some prosecutor can find a felony to charge them.

XeroKnight · June 2015

Pretty ironic that the game was titled Greed Monger... lmao. Took the money and ran.

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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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