Originally posted by 5ubzer0 If you pvp at all, you should know that 95% of the playerbase will not play on a full loot server. People take their gear way too seriously these days.
EVE Online is full loot and thriving.
Oh, the great Eve Online. It never fails to be brought up in any conversation involving PvP. It's the PvP saviour with its 350-400k player base. Eve Online is the PvP equivalent of WoW the "oft-hated and frowned upon" PvE monster. The only difference is that Eve Online has rarely, if ever, had a player base larger than 500k while WoW's player base has at times hovered over 12 million.
Correction... EVE never had more than 250-300k players. The rest are all the ATL accounts of vets.
Right now, its probably sits at around 175-200k players, NOT accounts, maximum. ( i'm being generous)
But thats another dead horse best left untouched. XD
^Pretty much.
I lost count of how many EVE players bring up how awesome their game is for being so hardcore that you won't get anywhere unless you have five extra accounts to support the one account that you actually play on.
You must have been pretty bad at playing the game if you needed five extra accounts to begin with.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Of those planning on playing Crowfall, a little over 70% of the folks are saying "Yes" to be the blue server. Oh, the shame!
Let people play as they wish without trying to make everyone except your own motivations and preferences. There is no one right way to play this game or any other.
Originally posted by 5ubzer0 If you pvp at all, you should know that 95% of the playerbase will not play on a full loot server. People take their gear way too seriously these days.
EVE Online is full loot and thriving.
Oh, the great Eve Online. It never fails to be brought up in any conversation involving PvP. It's the PvP saviour with its 350-400k player base. Eve Online is the PvP equivalent of WoW the "oft-hated and frowned upon" PvE monster. The only difference is that Eve Online has rarely, if ever, had a player base larger than 500k on 1 servercluster sandbox in a online world where player actions matter while WoW's player base has at times hovered over 12 million on servers with a max limit of 2k in a linear themepark setting where everyone is the same.
Fixed it for you.
Irrespective of the freedoms partaken on your part to arbitrarily inject your subjected opinions unto my post, I can think of twelve million reasons to your 200k reasons to support the fact that a 2k max linear server "themeparK" where everyone is the same is favored over a sandbox played on one server cluster where player actions matter. Bottom lines do matter, and that my friend, is as bottom a line as it gets. In other words, my post needed no fixing. it stands on its own.
Originally posted by 5ubzer0 If you pvp at all, you should know that 95% of the playerbase will not play on a full loot server. People take their gear way too seriously these days.
EVE Online is full loot and thriving.
Oh, the great Eve Online. It never fails to be brought up in any conversation involving PvP. It's the PvP saviour with its 350-400k player base. Eve Online is the PvP equivalent of WoW the "oft-hated and frowned upon" PvE monster. The only difference is that Eve Online has rarely, if ever, had a player base larger than 500k while WoW's player base has at times hovered over 12 million.
Correction... EVE never had more than 250-300k players. The rest are all the ATL accounts of vets.
Right now, its probably sits at around 175-200k players, NOT accounts, maximum. ( i'm being generous)
But thats another dead horse best left untouched. XD
^Pretty much.
I lost count of how many EVE players bring up how awesome their game is for being so hardcore that you won't get anywhere unless you have five extra accounts to support the one account that you actually play on.
You must have been pretty bad at playing the game if you needed five extra accounts to begin with.
Oh, I never even touched it. So I can only go on what I've heard from those who do.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Oh, I never even touched it. So I can only go on what I've heard from those who do.
So you base your opinion on.....absolutely nothing?
If you're fellow EVE players count as nothing, then yes, by all means.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Oh, I never even touched it. So I can only go on what I've heard from those who do.
So you base your opinion on.....absolutely nothing?
If you're fellow EVE players count as nothing, then yes, by all means.
"WoW is a bad game, I have never touched it, but I know some who do....so it is bad, they say it, so it must be bad, never seen or played the game though, but they say it, so it must be true."
Ok, I get it, you are easily influenced by others.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn I don't think it's a matter of hiding. It's a matter of not liking a certain mechanic. Companies that offer different servers for different play styles is a pretty smart way of doing things.
.. but if they do that, the PvP server will be deserted, don't you see? This conclusion is not that difficult to understand.
Not sure if you being funny or not. So, I'm gonna answer as if you aren't. The same people who won't play on a hardcore server probably wouldn't play the game at all if that was their only choice, so the population wouldn't be there anyway. However, by having a less brutal option, which will probably have a higher population, will help fund the less popular servers. Thus, we use the weak to fund the strong!
Thanks for your response. It is welcomed because it allows me to expand on my point further. Your point is true and well taken. Herein lies the truth behind the matter though. The game was designed to be PvP focused. In that regard, it needs a strong PvP base to be able to function as it was designed. By not allowing a PvE server, they are "forcing" all of those who are willing to give it a try, which includes many PvE players, to engage in PvP in an attempt to convert them and their thinking, and eventually buy into the whole "non-consensual" PvP server. Although a PvE server would arguably allow for a larger player base and revenue, they are willing to forego both at this time, in an attempt to "coerce" popularity in the game as it was designed. Make no mistake, if this does not work it is virtually guaranteed that the next step will be a PvE server. Not unlike the whole "start out as P2P and then convert to F2P if it doesn't work out," this is the equivalent result as it applies to a designed PvP focused "non-consensual" PvP game vs. an alternative PvE server option. They will try to convert you first, and when that fails, they will give in and "take the money."
One last thought ... it is my sincere opinion that game developers are "colluding," be it intentionally or unintentionally, to shift the MMORPG genre into more of a PvP focused alternative. The reason being, if you haven't already guessed, is because PvE focused games are much costlier and difficult to design, develop, maintain, and ultimate release than a PvP focused game. It has gotten to the point that the costs are just not there anymore to design, develop and maintain a successful PvE MMORPG now days. And unless, or until, some new developer(s) come around with enough innovation, imagination, daring, and most importantly the financial backing to revolutionize the genre, we will continue to see this push toward PvP that we are seeing of late because with PvP, players are the content. Such is the reality with the MMORPG industry today.
As to your first point, I maintain, that the subset of people who dislike this type of PvP, wouldn't play anyway. I would also argue that there is no collusion by companies to move away from PvE. There are several reasons, but the one I think should be highlighted is that there are more PvEcentric players out there, than PvPcentric. I believe that after all of the equations are done, including the ones you mentioned that need to be factored, the money is in PvE.
I think the recent surge in PvP type games is the clamour from the PvP crowd. Developers have heard and are gonna see if there is some coin to be made off of this. The PvP/PvE vortex flows one way then the other.
I am not disagreeing with you but you are not really addressing my post. The money is indeed in PvE because the player base is unequivocally much larger. However, the risk and financial backing are not favoring PvE MMORPG development. Again, the costs associated with designing, developing, releasing, and maintaining a PvE MMORPG are astronomical and the funding is just not there particularly as it applies to the stale game play design of traditional PvE style MMORPG's. This added to the popularity of MOBA's and FPS type games with the current gamer generation are compounding the problem. I am not saying that PvE type game play in MMORPG's will never return. This is a phase that we must go through before advancing the genre further. The pendulum will swing, but it will not do so until new imaginative and innovative game play is again infused into the PvE MMORPG engine. This will all happen with the advent of intelligent NPC AI. It's still a ways away, but technology will catch up eventually and we will have it just as we've had it in other competitive computer games such as chess et al. Do not despair, my friend. You will not be forgotten.
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn I don't think it's a matter of hiding. It's a matter of not liking a certain mechanic. Companies that offer different servers for different play styles is a pretty smart way of doing things.
.. but if they do that, the PvP server will be deserted, don't you see? This conclusion is not that difficult to understand.
Not sure if you being funny or not. So, I'm gonna answer as if you aren't. The same people who won't play on a hardcore server probably wouldn't play the game at all if that was their only choice, so the population wouldn't be there anyway. However, by having a less brutal option, which will probably have a higher population, will help fund the less popular servers. Thus, we use the weak to fund the strong!
Thanks for your response. It is welcomed because it allows me to expand on my point further. Your point is true and well taken. Herein lies the truth behind the matter though. The game was designed to be PvP focused. In that regard, it needs a strong PvP base to be able to function as it was designed. By not allowing a PvE server, they are "forcing" all of those who are willing to give it a try, which includes many PvE players, to engage in PvP in an attempt to convert them and their thinking, and eventually buy into the whole "non-consensual" PvP server. Although a PvE server would arguably allow for a larger player base and revenue, they are willing to forego both at this time, in an attempt to "coerce" popularity in the game as it was designed. Make no mistake, if this does not work it is virtually guaranteed that the next step will be a PvE server. Not unlike the whole "start out as P2P and then convert to F2P if it doesn't work out," this is the equivalent result as it applies to a designed PvP focused "non-consensual" PvP game vs. an alternative PvE server option. They will try to convert you first, and when that fails, they will give in and "take the money."
One last thought ... it is my sincere opinion that game developers are "colluding," be it intentionally or unintentionally, to shift the MMORPG genre into more of a PvP focused alternative. The reason being, if you haven't already guessed, is because PvE focused games are much costlier and difficult to design, develop, maintain, and ultimate release than a PvP focused game. It has gotten to the point that the costs are just not there anymore to design, develop and maintain a successful PvE MMORPG now days. And unless, or until, some new developer(s) come around with enough innovation, imagination, daring, and most importantly the financial backing to revolutionize the genre, we will continue to see this push toward PvP that we are seeing of late because with PvP, players are the content. Such is the reality with the MMORPG industry today.
As to your first point, I maintain, that the subset of people who dislike this type of PvP, wouldn't play anyway. I would also argue that there is no collusion by companies to move away from PvE. There are several reasons, but the one I think should be highlighted is that there are more PvEcentric players out there, than PvPcentric. I believe that after all of the equations are done, including the ones you mentioned that need to be factored, the money is in PvE.
I think the recent surge in PvP type games is the clamour from the PvP crowd. Developers have heard and are gonna see if there is some coin to be made off of this. The PvP/PvE vortex flows one way then the other.
I am not disagreeing with you but you are not really addressing my post. The money is indeed in PvE because the player base is unequivocally much larger. However, the risk and financial backing are not favoring PvE MMORPG development. Again, the costs associated with designing, developing, releasing, and maintaining a PvE MMORPG are astronomical and the funding is just not there particularly as it applies to the stale game play design of traditional PvE style MMORPG's. This added to the popularity of MOBA's and FPS type games with the current gamer generation are compounding the problem. I am not saying that PvE type game play in MMORPG's will never return. This is a phase that we must go through before advancing the genre further. The pendulum will swing, but it will not do so until new imaginative and innovative game play is again infused into the PvE MMORPG engine. This will all happen with the advent of intelligent NPC AI. It's still a ways away, but technology will catch up eventually and we will have it just as we've had it in other competitive computer games such as chess et al. Do not despair, my friend. You will not be forgotten.
Will you hide on a blue server? Blue servers are defined as no full loot, no friendly fire, and RVR style servers. Even living only in Eternal Kingdoms would be classified as "blue".
Curious to see what numbers would be produced here.
[mod edit - tweaked title slight;y]
I would hide on a blue server. Especially for the first round I am going to play. I see after that how the PvP community is in that game. If it all about ganking then I stick to blue servers.
Will you hide on a blue server? Blue servers are defined as no full loot, no friendly fire, and RVR style servers. Even living only in Eternal Kingdoms would be classified as "blue".
Curious to see what numbers would be produced here.
[mod edit - tweaked title slight;y]
Damn...I hate that I'm a no because I really love those risky systems, but I accept that I'm in the far minority. While I want to play on the full loot server, etc...the population probably won't survive. I'll probably try it for the first campaign though, in hopes that it makes it.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
What I don't understand is why you hardcore gankers aren't upset with the developers for even offering blue servers? Is this an example of hardcores depending on casuals to support their games financially? Now that sounds carebear to me.
Originally posted by Vorthanion What I don't understand is why you hardcore gankers aren't upset with the developers for even offering blue servers? Is this an example of hardcores depending on casuals to support their games financially? Now that sounds carebear to me.
I think all games should offer a hardcore server and a casual server. Games that try to make one server that caters to both, never make it as no one is happy. Why would anyone be upset with offering multiple server types? I don't want to many servers...but...I like some options.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Well this is just silly and ignorant. The vast majority of people who play full loot games do so because of the thrill. We like risk and reward. I want to ganked as much as I want to gank. After playing games with full loot and some form of ow pvp, I can't go back to games without these features because they're simply boring in comparison. It has nothing to do with any kind of psychological condition.
Loot is easily replaceable, just like corpserunning, and there is hardly any thrill with it.
I've played games with a chance of constitution loss on death that leads to permadeath when all constitution is gone. After playing that I can't go back to just full loot games because they're simply boring in comparison. If you only risk your gear, there is hardly any risk other than some work collecting the gear again. Now compared to the possibility of hundreds of hours of play........ well the risk of getting looted seems to me hardly a risk at all, but the reward of knowing your enemy lingering one step closer to permadeath certainly brings forth a sly grin!
Originally posted by Vorthanion What I don't understand is why you hardcore gankers aren't upset with the developers for even offering blue servers? Is this an example of hardcores depending on casuals to support their games financially? Now that sounds carebear to me.
No idea what a "hardcore ganker" is, but as a fan of PVP, I realized long ago that 100% FFA chaos PVP can't sustain itself forever on a large scale.
Not that it has to be super popular to be fun and profitable, but more options to a point is usually beneficial to all.
I'm completely fine with there being options as long as I still get what I want. No different than all the various ways to play other games.
Crowfall seems to be a great blend of options and I'm sure I'll be taken advantage. I find it unfortunate that many gamers shove themselves into a box and slap a label across their face and that is all they are. I much prefer enjoying a wide variety of styles.
Originally posted by Vorthanion What I don't understand is why you hardcore gankers aren't upset with the developers for even offering blue servers? Is this an example of hardcores depending on casuals to support their games financially? Now that sounds carebear to me.
No idea what a "hardcore ganker" is, but as a fan of PVP, I realized long ago that 100% FFA chaos PVP can't sustain itself forever on a large scale.
Not that it has to be super popular to be fun and profitable, but more options to a point is usually beneficial to all.
I'm completely fine with there being options as long as I still get what I want. No different than all the various ways to play other games.
Crowfall seems to be a great blend of options and I'm sure I'll be taken advantage. I find it unfortunate that many gamers shove themselves into a box and slap a label across their face and that is all they are. I much prefer enjoying a wide variety of styles.
The original Darkfall did a good job of making it work and the population was solid for a while...people loved it, just the company behind it was Avernturine and they are just pathetic...but had a better company had, had the title...it could have done well. Key to full loot is making the gear easy to get. Games like Tera or L2 where you had to work your ass off to get gear would never work with full loot. Either or...it is true, the masses won't accept full loot and I've learned to accept it...as long as I have clan wars built in the game...I get excitment from that then talking shit lol.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
I picked Yes. But I wouldn't call it "Hiding" lol. I just think it's not everyones cup of tea to be on a hardcore FFA server. But for those that love that. That's great !
Comments
You must have been pretty bad at playing the game if you needed five extra accounts to begin with.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Of those planning on playing Crowfall, a little over 70% of the folks are saying "Yes" to be the blue server. Oh, the shame!
Let people play as they wish without trying to make everyone except your own motivations and preferences. There is no one right way to play this game or any other.
Irrespective of the freedoms partaken on your part to arbitrarily inject your subjected opinions unto my post, I can think of twelve million reasons to your 200k reasons to support the fact that a 2k max linear server "themeparK" where everyone is the same is favored over a sandbox played on one server cluster where player actions matter. Bottom lines do matter, and that my friend, is as bottom a line as it gets. In other words, my post needed no fixing. it stands on its own.
Oh, I never even touched it. So I can only go on what I've heard from those who do.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
So you base your opinion on.....absolutely nothing?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
If you're fellow EVE players count as nothing, then yes, by all means.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
"WoW is a bad game, I have never touched it, but I know some who do....so it is bad, they say it, so it must be bad, never seen or played the game though, but they say it, so it must be true."
Ok, I get it, you are easily influenced by others.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I am not disagreeing with you but you are not really addressing my post. The money is indeed in PvE because the player base is unequivocally much larger. However, the risk and financial backing are not favoring PvE MMORPG development. Again, the costs associated with designing, developing, releasing, and maintaining a PvE MMORPG are astronomical and the funding is just not there particularly as it applies to the stale game play design of traditional PvE style MMORPG's. This added to the popularity of MOBA's and FPS type games with the current gamer generation are compounding the problem. I am not saying that PvE type game play in MMORPG's will never return. This is a phase that we must go through before advancing the genre further. The pendulum will swing, but it will not do so until new imaginative and innovative game play is again infused into the PvE MMORPG engine. This will all happen with the advent of intelligent NPC AI. It's still a ways away, but technology will catch up eventually and we will have it just as we've had it in other competitive computer games such as chess et al. Do not despair, my friend. You will not be forgotten.
I agree 100%
An earlier thread http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6656534#6656534
I fully support more advance A.I
I would hide on a blue server. Especially for the first round I am going to play. I see after that how the PvP community is in that game. If it all about ganking then I stick to blue servers.
Will play only in the extreme red one if exist (because i don't have yet understand if there will be one), with full loot, friedly fire, ffa pvp.
Damn...I hate that I'm a no because I really love those risky systems, but I accept that I'm in the far minority. While I want to play on the full loot server, etc...the population probably won't survive. I'll probably try it for the first campaign though, in hopes that it makes it.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I think all games should offer a hardcore server and a casual server. Games that try to make one server that caters to both, never make it as no one is happy. Why would anyone be upset with offering multiple server types? I don't want to many servers...but...I like some options.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Loot is easily replaceable, just like corpserunning, and there is hardly any thrill with it.
I've played games with a chance of constitution loss on death that leads to permadeath when all constitution is gone. After playing that I can't go back to just full loot games because they're simply boring in comparison. If you only risk your gear, there is hardly any risk other than some work collecting the gear again. Now compared to the possibility of hundreds of hours of play........ well the risk of getting looted seems to me hardly a risk at all, but the reward of knowing your enemy lingering one step closer to permadeath certainly brings forth a sly grin!
No idea what a "hardcore ganker" is, but as a fan of PVP, I realized long ago that 100% FFA chaos PVP can't sustain itself forever on a large scale.
Not that it has to be super popular to be fun and profitable, but more options to a point is usually beneficial to all.
I'm completely fine with there being options as long as I still get what I want. No different than all the various ways to play other games.
Crowfall seems to be a great blend of options and I'm sure I'll be taken advantage. I find it unfortunate that many gamers shove themselves into a box and slap a label across their face and that is all they are. I much prefer enjoying a wide variety of styles.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
The original Darkfall did a good job of making it work and the population was solid for a while...people loved it, just the company behind it was Avernturine and they are just pathetic...but had a better company had, had the title...it could have done well. Key to full loot is making the gear easy to get. Games like Tera or L2 where you had to work your ass off to get gear would never work with full loot. Either or...it is true, the masses won't accept full loot and I've learned to accept it...as long as I have clan wars built in the game...I get excitment from that then talking shit lol.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"