Back in the day indie devs claimed that 1 kickstarter dollar is worth of 3 big studio dollars abouts,because there is no middle mans and how they invest all their money in to the game developement really effectively,that is not the case anymore and soon 1 dollar means 1 big company dollar or even less,which is really sad.
edit : some of the big studios seems to be more indie these days than these "we are indie give us money fast" gangs
I would like to see how exactly did you get to those numbers.
Feel free to enlighten us all.
Ok,this might be rocket science for you then if you cant figure it out but here it goes : 3-2=1
Wow, your evidence is absolute. All the data you provided is irrefutable.
Like to point out that the ads couldn't have been paid for with crowd funding since the kickstarter hasn't even ended yet. ArtCraft won't get any money until the end of the kickstarter ad campaign which is still 11hrs from now. I think its more them spending their own money in an attempt to bring in even more money via the kickstarter campaign. seems to be working too.....donations seemed to have jump in the past couple days.
They still don't have the money yet. They won't have it until at least 14 days after the KS ended.
Back in the day indie devs claimed that 1 kickstarter dollar is worth of 3 big studio dollars abouts,because there is no middle mans and how they invest all their money in to the game developement really effectively,that is not the case anymore and soon 1 dollar means 1 big company dollar or even less,which is really sad.
edit : some of the big studios seems to be more indie these days than these "we are indie give us money fast" gangs
I would like to see how exactly did you get to those numbers.
Feel free to enlighten us all.
Ok,this might be rocket science for you then if you cant figure it out but here it goes : 3-2=1
"Back in the day indie devs claimed that 1 kickstarter dollar is worth of 3 big studio dollars"
I'm quite sure that's what was in question, P. I'm also interested in where this 'back in the day' statistic came from.
Back in the day indie devs claimed that 1 kickstarter dollar is worth of 3 big studio dollars abouts,because there is no middle mans and how they invest all their money in to the game developement really effectively,that is not the case anymore and soon 1 dollar means 1 big company dollar or even less,which is really sad.
edit : some of the big studios seems to be more indie these days than these "we are indie give us money fast" gangs
I would like to see how exactly did you get to those numbers.
Feel free to enlighten us all.
Ok,this might be rocket science for you then if you cant figure it out but here it goes : 3-2=1
"Back in the day indie devs claimed that 1 kickstarter dollar is worth of 3 big studio dollars"
I'm quite sure that's what was in question, P. I'm also interested in where this 'back in the day' statistic came from.
That's a comparison of digital distribution vs physical product, and even says so on the bottom. I mean, it's a really good spin on selective data, especially when you know much of your crowd is anti-publisher and only grabs at keywords, but it is a comparison chart on profit from client sales at a $60 price point.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
calm down , KS/crowfounding games can spend donated money for what ever their managers wish;drugs,hookers ... advertisement ... they collecting money not only for making game,deal with it ,it is reality,KS & similar crap are cash grab scam with legal right !
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph calm down , KS/crowfounding games can spend donated money for what ever their managers wish;drugs,hookers ... advertisement ... they collecting money not only for making game,deal with it ,it is reality,KS & similar crap are cash grab scam with legal right !
And then sometimes they poduce game of the year.
Im sure ceos and managers of publishers care...while sailing away in the sunset on their yacht with YOUR money
yeah I love hyping. everyone loves hyping. who doesn't love hyping. (i'm being sarcastic, hyping really really really sucks)
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
I think they maybe should have waited a while with the add campaign but if they want the game to do good from start they do need to advertise. It of course depends on what they pay for the campaign but games you don't advertise tend to be very small unless you can pull of a new Minecraft.
So I guess I am cool with it as long as the game actually release in an acceptable shape.
At this point, since hell would pretty much have to freeze over to get me to support a KS MMO, I don't see that it matters much.
KS is a legitimate fundraising tool, when used correctly in the proper market space.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much. Producing demos and pre-alphas to attract investor interest is nice and all, but what it ain't is delivering a game.
For a KS SPG or co-op game, sure: the financial requirements on those is typically far less than MMOs, and there have already been some successes (I backed Wasteland 2 myself).
But MMOs are something entirely different, and with the exception of Star Citizen (which has its own problems), no KS MMO has come up with the cash to actually make and take a product to release (and have a quality product).
So with Crowfall, they are here to raise more "free money" that is neither secured by company equity, nor bears an interest rate. Why not? If people are stupid enough to fork over cash for the "promise of a game", let them. It is all to the company's advantage to do that.
Since money donated to the "making of Crowfall" is basically no strings attached, so long as the sucker... eh... I mean backer eventually gets a game client and access, the company can do whatever it wants with it.
Whether that is good for backers or gamers in general, is a different question entirely.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much. Producing demos and pre-alphas to attract investor interest is nice and all, but what it ain't is delivering a game.
You should take some time to read up on the business side of things that ACE has outlined. Most of an MMOs budget is spent on PvE and art assets. Crowfall will have very limited PvE and by having Archetypes instead of Race and Class, they significantly cut down on the number of combinations for which they have to create animations.
The campaigns will all be dynamically generated from pre-made parcels of land, and both the campaigns and the eternal kingdoms will use the same parcel system, so it's not like they will have to create every world by hand. They can create X number of parcels and then combine them in lots of different ways. And they can always add more parcels after launch to spice things up.
Crowfall won't cost nearly as much to make as a game like SW:TOR. If someone were trying to create a game like that via crowdfunding, yeah, I'd be skeptical too. But Crowfall can be made with KS money and some money from outside investors.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much. Producing demos and pre-alphas to attract investor interest is nice and all, but what it ain't is delivering a game.
You should take some time to read up on the business side of things that ACE has outlined. Most of an MMOs budget is spent on PvE and art assets. Crowfall will have very limited PvE and by having Archetypes instead of Race and Class, they significantly cut down on the number of combinations for which they have to create animations.
The campaigns will all be dynamically generated from pre-made parcels of land, and both the campaigns and the eternal kingdoms will use the same parcel system, so it's not like they will have to create every world by hand. They can create X number of parcels and then combine them in lots of different ways. And they can always add more parcels after launch to spice things up.
Crowfall won't cost nearly as much to make as a game like SW:TOR. If someone were trying to create a game like that via crowdfunding, yeah, I'd be skeptical too. But Crowfall can be made with KS money and some money from outside investors.
That's nice, but it does not change the fundamental problem, which is that people are not paying/donating for a game, they are donating in the hopes that a game might someday exist in a reasonable form. It is possible that the specific chances of Crowfall being released are higher than average, but so what?
It is still flinging money at a company to make a game, and not to buy a game that already exists.
As things are now, that is a silly thing to do in the MMO space.
If Crowfall ends up being good, I might play it, but until there is a game and it is good, as a wise consumer/gamer i am keeping my money in my pocket.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much. Producing demos and pre-alphas to attract investor interest is nice and all, but what it ain't is delivering a game.
You should take some time to read up on the business side of things that ACE has outlined. Most of an MMOs budget is spent on PvE and art assets. Crowfall will have very limited PvE and by having Archetypes instead of Race and Class, they significantly cut down on the number of combinations for which they have to create animations.
The campaigns will all be dynamically generated from pre-made parcels of land, and both the campaigns and the eternal kingdoms will use the same parcel system, so it's not like they will have to create every world by hand. They can create X number of parcels and then combine them in lots of different ways. And they can always add more parcels after launch to spice things up.
Crowfall won't cost nearly as much to make as a game like SW:TOR. If someone were trying to create a game like that via crowdfunding, yeah, I'd be skeptical too. But Crowfall can be made with KS money and some money from outside investors.
That's nice, but it does not change the fundamental problem, which is that people are not paying/donating for a game, they are donating in the hopes that a game might someday exist in a reasonable form. It is possible that the specific chances of Crowfall being released are higher than average, but so what?
It is still flinging money at a company to make a game, and not to buy a game that already exists.
As things are now, that is a silly thing to do in the MMO space.
If Crowfall ends up being good, I might play it, but until there is a game and it is good, as a wise consumer/gamer i am keeping my money in my pocket.
Your argument was that MMOs cost too much to make, so don't belong on Kickstarter.
"KS is a legitimate fundraising tool, when used correctly in the proper market space.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much."
So, you didn't have a problem with KS, just MMOs on KS because they cost too much. I pointed out to you why Crowfall won't cost as much as other MMOs, and now you've changed your argument.
Any time you support something on Kickstarter you are doing so in the hopes that the project will be realized. That isn't exclusive to MMOs. If those companies all had a finished product, they wouldn't need Kickstarter.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much. Producing demos and pre-alphas to attract investor interest is nice and all, but what it ain't is delivering a game.
You should take some time to read up on the business side of things that ACE has outlined. Most of an MMOs budget is spent on PvE and art assets. Crowfall will have very limited PvE and by having Archetypes instead of Race and Class, they significantly cut down on the number of combinations for which they have to create animations.
The campaigns will all be dynamically generated from pre-made parcels of land, and both the campaigns and the eternal kingdoms will use the same parcel system, so it's not like they will have to create every world by hand. They can create X number of parcels and then combine them in lots of different ways. And they can always add more parcels after launch to spice things up.
Crowfall won't cost nearly as much to make as a game like SW:TOR. If someone were trying to create a game like that via crowdfunding, yeah, I'd be skeptical too. But Crowfall can be made with KS money and some money from outside investors.
That's nice, but it does not change the fundamental problem, which is that people are not paying/donating for a game, they are donating in the hopes that a game might someday exist in a reasonable form. It is possible that the specific chances of Crowfall being released are higher than average, but so what?
It is still flinging money at a company to make a game, and not to buy a game that already exists.
As things are now, that is a silly thing to do in the MMO space.
If Crowfall ends up being good, I might play it, but until there is a game and it is good, as a wise consumer/gamer i am keeping my money in my pocket.
Your argument was that MMOs cost too much to make, so don't belong on Kickstarter.
"KS is a legitimate fundraising tool, when used correctly in the proper market space.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much."
So, you didn't have a problem with KS, just MMOs on KS because they cost too much. I pointed out to you why Crowfall won't cost as much as other MMOs, and now you've changed your argument.
Any time you support something on Kickstarter you are doing so in the hopes that the project will be realized. That isn't exclusive to MMOs. If those companies all had a finished product, they wouldn't need Kickstarter.
No, not really.
How many KS SPG/Co-op have been successfully released and to good reviews? Several.
How many MMORPGs? None.
How many KS funded MMORPGs have crashed and burned with nothing released and no money back or development going along at a snail's pace? Several.
One of the main reasons for this, is that MMOs cost too much to develop, and thus, are much less likely to be successfully completed with KS/donated funds. Companies run out of money and that is it.
Maybe Crowfall will get to release, maybe it won't.
But until it does, they will not be getting a cent from me, and, I expect, many others.
Comments
Wow, your evidence is absolute. All the data you provided is irrefutable.
They still don't have the money yet. They won't have it until at least 14 days after the KS ended.Possibly referring to the claims Chris Roberts was making during his kickstarter pitch - https://i.imgur.com/cbs3aHj.jpg
That's a comparison of digital distribution vs physical product, and even says so on the bottom. I mean, it's a really good spin on selective data, especially when you know much of your crowd is anti-publisher and only grabs at keywords, but it is a comparison chart on profit from client sales at a $60 price point.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And then sometimes they poduce game of the year.
Im sure ceos and managers of publishers care...while sailing away in the sunset on their yacht with YOUR money
I self identify as a monkey.
I think they maybe should have waited a while with the add campaign but if they want the game to do good from start they do need to advertise. It of course depends on what they pay for the campaign but games you don't advertise tend to be very small unless you can pull of a new Minecraft.
So I guess I am cool with it as long as the game actually release in an acceptable shape.
At this point, since hell would pretty much have to freeze over to get me to support a KS MMO, I don't see that it matters much.
KS is a legitimate fundraising tool, when used correctly in the proper market space.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much. Producing demos and pre-alphas to attract investor interest is nice and all, but what it ain't is delivering a game.
For a KS SPG or co-op game, sure: the financial requirements on those is typically far less than MMOs, and there have already been some successes (I backed Wasteland 2 myself).
But MMOs are something entirely different, and with the exception of Star Citizen (which has its own problems), no KS MMO has come up with the cash to actually make and take a product to release (and have a quality product).
So with Crowfall, they are here to raise more "free money" that is neither secured by company equity, nor bears an interest rate. Why not? If people are stupid enough to fork over cash for the "promise of a game", let them. It is all to the company's advantage to do that.
Since money donated to the "making of Crowfall" is basically no strings attached, so long as the sucker... eh... I mean backer eventually gets a game client and access, the company can do whatever it wants with it.
Whether that is good for backers or gamers in general, is a different question entirely.
You should take some time to read up on the business side of things that ACE has outlined. Most of an MMOs budget is spent on PvE and art assets. Crowfall will have very limited PvE and by having Archetypes instead of Race and Class, they significantly cut down on the number of combinations for which they have to create animations.
The campaigns will all be dynamically generated from pre-made parcels of land, and both the campaigns and the eternal kingdoms will use the same parcel system, so it's not like they will have to create every world by hand. They can create X number of parcels and then combine them in lots of different ways. And they can always add more parcels after launch to spice things up.
Crowfall won't cost nearly as much to make as a game like SW:TOR. If someone were trying to create a game like that via crowdfunding, yeah, I'd be skeptical too. But Crowfall can be made with KS money and some money from outside investors.
That's nice, but it does not change the fundamental problem, which is that people are not paying/donating for a game, they are donating in the hopes that a game might someday exist in a reasonable form. It is possible that the specific chances of Crowfall being released are higher than average, but so what?
It is still flinging money at a company to make a game, and not to buy a game that already exists.
As things are now, that is a silly thing to do in the MMO space.
If Crowfall ends up being good, I might play it, but until there is a game and it is good, as a wise consumer/gamer i am keeping my money in my pocket.
Your argument was that MMOs cost too much to make, so don't belong on Kickstarter.
"KS is a legitimate fundraising tool, when used correctly in the proper market space.
I do not believe that producing MMORPGs is the correct market space for that tool: the amount of money required to actually produce and deliver a quality, working MMO is just too much."
So, you didn't have a problem with KS, just MMOs on KS because they cost too much. I pointed out to you why Crowfall won't cost as much as other MMOs, and now you've changed your argument.
Any time you support something on Kickstarter you are doing so in the hopes that the project will be realized. That isn't exclusive to MMOs. If those companies all had a finished product, they wouldn't need Kickstarter.
No, not really.
How many KS SPG/Co-op have been successfully released and to good reviews? Several.
How many MMORPGs? None.
How many KS funded MMORPGs have crashed and burned with nothing released and no money back or development going along at a snail's pace? Several.
One of the main reasons for this, is that MMOs cost too much to develop, and thus, are much less likely to be successfully completed with KS/donated funds. Companies run out of money and that is it.
Maybe Crowfall will get to release, maybe it won't.
But until it does, they will not be getting a cent from me, and, I expect, many others.