I know I won't enjoy a game the same way I did my first few MMOs, but that is mainly because I no longer enjoy raiding. I also do not get excited for tab target style games anymore, I have had my fun with those games. I still enjoy games based on cooperative play and classes that need each other though, and a lot of those are still MMORPGs.
I don't think that is the problem here, the problem is that MMOs have become very similar to eachothers with very few exceptions. In the old days there were fewer but more varied games so it was easier to find something you liked.
Now the games are focused on the exact same group of players (again with a few exceptions like Eve) and that is bad. That doesn't mean the games in themselves are bad at all but it does mean that the potential numbers of players in the genre actually are fewer now then 10 years ago, and since 99% of all players actually don't belong to the current focus group (easy PvE games with fast leveling and endgame raids),it is more something like 50%-60%, the dip in potential players have dropped a lot.
What are you talking about?
There are so many variations now. You have the MOBAs, the instanced pvp games (like WoT), the world pvp games (like PS2), the instanced pve games like Warframe, and action RPG-ish MMOs like Marvel Heroes, and you have settings from fantasy to sci-fi to superheroes.
It is MUCH better than the UO/EQ days where you only have fantasy, and only very few game modes.
There is no problem per se.
Listen, MOBAs and instanced PvP games are multiplayer games, not MMOs. Instanced PvE games are at best CORPGs, but fine.CORPGs are at least almost MMOs.
According to this, many MMO sites, and reviewers, they are.
Since many here don't agree on the definition, i will go with MMO sites and reviewers rather than you.
So again, by the definition of this site, and the one i use, there are plenty of variety. So may be the problem is your definition of MMO is so narrow that they have no choice but to be the same.
Broadened your definition and there are plenty of varieties.
I feel the same way as you OP. After 12 years of trying different games I find there are none that can bring back the enjoyment I had playing in the early 2000's. While I love PC's and pc gaming, there are no games that keep me in my seat and playing for hours on end anymore. I am still going to keep an eye on the updates that are coming to Daoc. I may just thow in the towel and return to Camelot even as aged as it is.
Such a load of crap. Really... you had so much fun playing that you stopped after 30 minutes but back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun.
Games today aren't better, they're just disposable... like everything else we use today.
Disposable is better if you are not looking for long term games.
And what is wrong with having a lot of fun in 30 min and then do something else?
Such a load of crap. Really... you had so much fun playing that you stopped after 30 minutes but back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun.
Games today aren't better, they're just disposable... like everything else we use today.
Disposable is better if you are not looking for long term games.
And what is wrong with having a lot of fun in 30 min and then do something else?
There is nothing wrong with either play style, however there is something very wrong with "back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun". That's a case of someone rewriting their past. It's being dishonest plain and simple.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm going to repeat it once again... if YOU - the player - are unable to socialize when not force to by game mechanics, do NOT blame the game. If there's something wrong, it's not on the game's side, it's on your side. If you need mechanics to force people to be your friend, then you have, for whatever reason, a problem making friends.
Just stop already, please. You cannot sit there and honestly say to me with any intellectual integrity at all that today's MMO design simply does not foster a sense of community like designs of the past did. This is not about socializing, it is about community. There is a difference. You can socialize within your guild and your select group of friends, but that does not mean you have a community on your server. Hell, many MMO's now feature this new megaserver crap which makes community impossible. If you cannot understand the difference between living in a social community and being social then you should just not have this debate anymore.
Such a load of crap. Really... you had so much fun playing that you stopped after 30 minutes but back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun.
Games today aren't better, they're just disposable... like everything else we use today.
Disposable is better if you are not looking for long term games.
And what is wrong with having a lot of fun in 30 min and then do something else?
There is nothing wrong with either play style, however there is something very wrong with "back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun". That's a case of someone rewriting their past. It's being dishonest plain and simple.
THAT is true. (hey i agree with Cecropia!)
I did a 6 hours camp once in EQ .. and that was very boring (only reason i did not leave is i am with some people .. think about it as a lesson bowing to social pressure). After that I never went to camping again. As you say, if it is not fun, why do it in the first place?
The other result was that I realize it is no reason for me to bow to social pressure in a *game*. Games are entertainment and i should use it as I see fit.
Games today are much more suited to my lifestyle - I get to play online games with my son for 15-30min and have more fun than I ever had playing EQ1 back for 12+ hours on weekends.
Such a load of crap. Really... you had so much fun playing that you stopped after 30 minutes but back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun. What a load of utter crap. You choose to play or not to play... just as you did back in the day. Difference is, you chose gaming over all else because it was that engaging back then. Today you could just as easily skip it as do it. That paint drying on the wall is just as entertaining, but that holds your attention longer.
Games today aren't better, they're just disposable... like everything else we use today.
Well thanks for your opinion but I know how I feel, mmk?
You don't feel the same - guess what thats completely normal.
12 hours a day was an addiction - sure I had fun here and there but looking back 99% of the time was dull as far as as *gameplay*. What made up for it was socialization which you can get in any social media today.
Funny, I recall plenty of posts where you are telling us what we feel and why we feel it. I always remarked how arrogant it was of you to tell me why I "think" I like the old school genre. Don't pretend you don't recall this either, I can easily find these posts.
I am quite sure as many of us older or more experienced gamers either adapt to the inevitable evolution of this genre, or move on to another hobby/pass-time, there will be many of new faces just starting out in this crazy mixed up world we call gaming. Life does have its' moments and we are all part of it.
Enjoy what pass-time or hobby makes you feel good or happy in spite of what venom is spewed. That bile matters not one whit to your experience and your fondest memories.
I think your feelings work both ways. I still have faith that despite the "staleness" of the genre now, it will blossom once again in a newer and somewhat familiar way I feel...
Here's hoping you find your love in the mmo"rpg" genre in the future, Drakaena
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Originally posted by NightHaveN MMOs are not what they used to for many of reasons. But most that have been in the MMO since WoW origins, or even pre WoW may agree that they don't have the time right now that they had back then.
Nor do I really want a new MMO that demands the amount of time that the older ones did. As much as I enjoyed the experience of the older MMOs, there were just too many artificial time sinks built in. It was fun for a time but I am glad they have streamlined the experience.
Imo, there is a fundamental difference between time investment and character attachment. Build a world where actions are meaningful and not generic. Maybe the time I put in isn't great and my impact minimal, but it is still unique to my immersion. Its the difference between being Tyrion Lannister or Podrick. But anymore it feels everyone is the same. Kind of bland. Games are lacking personality. The kind that can only grow organically and feel they are not being structured in order to enable this type of environment.
Comments
According to this, many MMO sites, and reviewers, they are.
Since many here don't agree on the definition, i will go with MMO sites and reviewers rather than you.
So again, by the definition of this site, and the one i use, there are plenty of variety. So may be the problem is your definition of MMO is so narrow that they have no choice but to be the same.
Broadened your definition and there are plenty of varieties.
Disposable is better if you are not looking for long term games.
And what is wrong with having a lot of fun in 30 min and then do something else?
There is nothing wrong with either play style, however there is something very wrong with "back in the day you forced yourself to endure 12+ hours of something that wasn't fun". That's a case of someone rewriting their past. It's being dishonest plain and simple.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Just stop already, please. You cannot sit there and honestly say to me with any intellectual integrity at all that today's MMO design simply does not foster a sense of community like designs of the past did. This is not about socializing, it is about community. There is a difference. You can socialize within your guild and your select group of friends, but that does not mean you have a community on your server. Hell, many MMO's now feature this new megaserver crap which makes community impossible. If you cannot understand the difference between living in a social community and being social then you should just not have this debate anymore.
THAT is true. (hey i agree with Cecropia!)
I did a 6 hours camp once in EQ .. and that was very boring (only reason i did not leave is i am with some people .. think about it as a lesson bowing to social pressure). After that I never went to camping again. As you say, if it is not fun, why do it in the first place?
The other result was that I realize it is no reason for me to bow to social pressure in a *game*. Games are entertainment and i should use it as I see fit.
Funny, I recall plenty of posts where you are telling us what we feel and why we feel it. I always remarked how arrogant it was of you to tell me why I "think" I like the old school genre. Don't pretend you don't recall this either, I can easily find these posts.
Drakaena,
Certainly there are many that feel the same as you do, my friend. However, I offer these words;
Alan Watts
I am quite sure as many of us older or more experienced gamers either adapt to the inevitable evolution of this genre, or move on to another hobby/pass-time, there will be many of new faces just starting out in this crazy mixed up world we call gaming. Life does have its' moments and we are all part of it.
Enjoy what pass-time or hobby makes you feel good or happy in spite of what venom is spewed. That bile matters not one whit to your experience and your fondest memories.
Michael Jordan
I think your feelings work both ways. I still have faith that despite the "staleness" of the genre now, it will blossom once again in a newer and somewhat familiar way I feel...
Here's hoping you find your love in the mmo"rpg" genre in the future, Drakaena
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Nor do I really want a new MMO that demands the amount of time that the older ones did. As much as I enjoyed the experience of the older MMOs, there were just too many artificial time sinks built in. It was fun for a time but I am glad they have streamlined the experience.
Build a world where actions are meaningful and not generic.
Maybe the time I put in isn't great and my impact minimal, but it is still unique to my immersion.
Its the difference between being Tyrion Lannister or Podrick.
But anymore it feels everyone is the same. Kind of bland. Games are lacking personality. The kind that can only grow organically and feel they are not being structured in order to enable this type of environment.