Ive been in gay guilds, girl only guilds, guy only guids, no flirting guilds, family friendly gulds, in character only guilds, trade only guilds, strictly rnd game only guilds, and no irl info guilds.
Exclusion is an inherent part of guilds.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Originally posted by Castillle Exclusion is an inherent part of guilds.
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Guilds are not necessarily meant to be some all-inclusive group. If they were, why would they exist if everyone on the server was in it? Guilds function to set you APART from the rest of the server. To say " THIS IS US". Trying to control who people identify with is just... sad.
If you want to make a guild with open recruiting knock yourself out!
If someone else wants to recruit people who's name begins with J... LET THEM
If someone else wants to recruit only people that are unemployed... Go for it!
Stop trying to control who OTHER people can game with.
I'm not controlling who you game with, you have the freedom to choose witch guild you want to join, and if you want to join one in the first place.
The guild has the freedom to let you into the guild if they want to.
What I'm saying is, they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on gender. That doesn't force you to play with anyone anymore than in a male/female-only guild.
Stop trying to DEFEND people EXCLUDING others based on GENDER.
I will DEFEND EXCLUDING anyone that they WANT to exclude. The whole PURPOSE of a guild is to EXCLUDE others. You seems to struggle with that concept with delusions of having to control and judge the thoughts who who OTHER people should game with. A guild, by DEFINITION.. is exclusionary.
This is seriously one of the most ridiculous threads in recent times... A large part of me thinks it's simply a troll attempt and if so, bravo Sir... bravo.
If not....
"The whole PURPOSE of a guild is to EXCLUDE others."
No....it's NOT! Guilds are here to draw like minded people together. Not leave others out. The small percentage that DO leave others out...and it IS a small percentage....are too small to care about.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I cant be the only one who finds this very childish. Most of us here are adult we can decide for our selfs. If you dont like to be in one gender only guild, dont join it, but you dont have the right to take that choice from others.
And anyway whats even the problem here? Why do you care/bother what guilds other people join? You should focus on youself not others.
It really isn't any of our business, though. Every guild has a process, and every guild has a type, it's why there's guilds in the first place. The fact that certain games are able to sustain gender-specific guilds is just a sign of a demand for those spaces within the game.
Hell, there were guilds in WoW that required you to send them proof of your age before letting you in - is it excessive? Maybe, but it's just a means to an end -- they don't care if the people they're playing with are of age or not, they just don't wanna take chances. Stereotypes (and personal experience) would lead us to believe that younger players tend to behave problematically (duh?), so they're cut, and no-one's got a problem with that.
I'd even say that the creation of such spaces within a gaming community can be a good thing. If people *really* don't want to cause problems brought forth by interactions with a specific gender, then let it be, they may be better off playing on their own, away from the rest of the playerbase.
I have never seen this. Is this a thing? I guess? I have seen a few asinine GMs and guild members.
If you are in such a guild that rejects applicants purely based on gender stereotypes I guess that says as much about you than it says about them. That's what /gquit is for.
Originally posted by DMKano I've never come across a gender specific guild - so this is a very isolated issue IMO
Same here.
It doesn't exist because I haven't seen it.
I have seen guilds that only had female characters, but not female players, doesn't mean they don't exist, but they must be very rare if they have never showed up in any of the games i play
Guilds are not necessarily meant to be some all-inclusive group. If they were, why would they exist if everyone on the server was in it? Guilds function to set you APART from the rest of the server. To say " THIS IS US". Trying to control who people identify with is just... sad.
If you want to make a guild with open recruiting knock yourself out!
If someone else wants to recruit people who's name begins with J... LET THEM
If someone else wants to recruit only people that are unemployed... Go for it!
Stop trying to control who OTHER people can game with.
I'm not controlling who you game with, you have the freedom to choose witch guild you want to join, and if you want to join one in the first place.
The guild has the freedom to let you into the guild if they want to.
What I'm saying is, they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on gender. That doesn't force you to play with anyone anymore than in a male/female-only guild.
Stop trying to DEFEND people EXCLUDING others based on GENDER.
I will DEFEND EXCLUDING anyone that they WANT to exclude. The whole PURPOSE of a guild is to EXCLUDE others. You seems to struggle with that concept with delusions of having to control and judge the thoughts who who OTHER people should game with. A guild, by DEFINITION.. is exclusionary.
This is seriously one of the most ridiculous threads in recent times... A large part of me thinks it's simply a troll attempt and if so, bravo Sir... bravo.
If not....
"The whole PURPOSE of a guild is to EXCLUDE others."
No....it's NOT! Guilds are here to draw like minded people together. Not leave others out.
What's the real difference then? IF you're simply drawing like minded players, you're excluding anyone who isn't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't really see the problem with this. There are schools that have all male or all female students. Often those students due better because they don't have the distraction of sex to worry about at a young age.
I'm not sure why integration should be forced. It's up to the people playing the game. As long as they don't bother other people by harassing them what does it matter?
Do they do better in life as well? How are their social skills? What are their views of the other gender?
I question wether they atually do better, and if they do, should women wear burka so as not to distract men?
Your burka comment is extremely ignorant and stupid. There are girl only schools just as there are guy only schools. It's been a very prevalent thing in private education for a very long time not only in this country, but others as well. The idea of coed education is actually the newer idea here (it wasn't really a popular idea until the 20th century but even back when my grandparents were in school in the 1930s, many schools were still single sex). Nowadays though most of the single sex schools are Catholic schools. I went to an all girls high school and my brother went to our brother school, an all boys school. We had all our social events with them, etc.
According to many studies done over the years, students with single sex educations (either high school or college) like that tend to not only do better on tests and are more successful after graduating, because they can focus on their studies, but come out as more self confident, self assured adults, having a better sense of self and more able to avoid peer pressure. When you don't have to worry about what your hair and makeup looks like (the fact that girls wear so much makeup in high school today makes me so sad), what clothes you're wearing, how you're acting, it's an entirely different experience that carries through even into a coed college life and into adulthood. It takes away a lot of the unnecessary concerns of high school in a time when you already have a lot going on. Especially for girls, learning in a single sex environment helps a lot. And students in single sex schools still socialize with those of the opposite sex outside of school the same way anyone else would, so it's not like they don't live otherwise normal lives and have entirely normal social skills. You just don't see them in school during the day.
As for this thread, you're a real drama queen (and yes I see that you're a guy, my comment still stands). I have honestly never had an issue in guilds because I'm a girl. People that do have problems need to find better, more mature guilds to hang out in. But as a girl I have to say there's a lot of girls that try to attract attention intentionally, also others that are real drama queens. Many gamer girls are annoying personally and it's often the young 20 somethings that probably are as socially awkward in real life as the guys they claim to dislike in game that cause problems more often. Yes there are definitely guys out there that are equally to blame but I feel like everyone already agreed with that statement. Just don't act like every girl is entirely innocent because they're not. I have never had a problem and there's a reason for that - I act like a mature adult and do my best to find like-minded guildmates.
You're never going to get along with everybody and that's as true outside of games as it is inside. Especially in the workplace. Mature adults find ways to get along with everyone and don't make a big deal out of the people they dislike. Avoid it if you can, but things often aren't a big deal unless you make it out to be a big deal. Ignore it and move on - or if it's that bad, move to another guild with people you like better.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
If you don't want people answering, don't post it.
Really? That little bit of trolling was all you could muster up the energy to reply with? The standards around here are dropping.
Look, some of it was said with a wry smile, but the points remain (gender and sex not being the same, the self imposed social ghetto, etc) that you could have zeroed in on and addressed if you are interested in a conversation.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
Tribalism. Nobody can change it, no matter what rules or laws are passed.
Just like I choose to live near and associate with only people that are like me. I also think that people not like be should be able to do the same.
I don't think that if a guild chooses to do this, is hurting anything.
It's not like the OP or others like him., are going to join that guild if they allowed him to. Women's Rights groups are the only ones complaining that the Marines didn't have women grunts. But now that the USMC are opening up for that, you'll NEVER see these same Women's Rights groups enlisting in droves.
This is just another case of people wanting to be somewhere they are not welcomed.
OP while i understand what you are trying to say. Or at least what i think you are trying to say... That equality should go both ways and in to every part of life...
Here is the reality of it.... "We" as a society (or several with similar values and codes) are not at a point where we can apply that idea. We should absolutley work towards it... But we are pretty damm far from that point.
it is not discrimination per se.... Discrimination would be if they let you in to the guild but did not give you any raid spot purely based on your gender.
What they are doing is being excluding. Now in many cases these are freely interchangeable but they are not always the same. In this very specific case there is a well established reason as to why they choose to exclude the people they do.
A bit like how a members only club for people with alternative sexuality might choose to not let a *happy*-basher in as a member. Or how a Ferrari enthusiast club might exclude anyone not owning a Ferrari.
Now i am sure you might very vell be the nicest and most respectful guy on the planet... But since you live in a time and place where not everyone shares your high ideals... You simply have to accept that you have to pay for those peopels crime. But at least you can take solace in the knowledge that theer are enough female gamers that guilds like this can exists.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
Tribalism. Nobody can change it, no matter what rules or laws are passed.
Just like I choose to live near and associate with only people that are like me. I also think that people not like be should be able to do the same.
I don't think that if a guild chooses to do this, is hurting anything.
Do you really only go out of your way (choose) associate with people that are like you? I'm not sure what to say about that...
I am pretty active in my city's tabletop gaming scene (board games, PnP RPGs etc) and, have to say, my table is open to anyone that's a decent person. We have folks from across the economic, social, political, gender, ethnic, whatever else, spectrums playing happily.
Segregation only leads, ultimately, to ignorance IMO.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
Tribalism. Nobody can change it, no matter what rules or laws are passed.
Just like I choose to live near and associate with only people that are like me. I also think that people not like be should be able to do the same.
I don't think that if a guild chooses to do this, is hurting anything.
Do you really only go out of your way (choose) associate with people that are like you? I'm not sure what to say about that...
I am pretty active in my city's tabletop gaming scene (board games, PnP RPGs etc) and, have to say, my table is open to anyone that's a decent person. We have folks from across the economic, social, political, gender, ethnic, whatever else, spectrums playing happily.
Segregation only leads, ultimately, to ignorance IMO.
Makes sense, you all share the same interest. How do you differ than me on this?
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
Tribalism. Nobody can change it, no matter what rules or laws are passed.
Just like I choose to live near and associate with only people that are like me. I also think that people not like be should be able to do the same.
I don't think that if a guild chooses to do this, is hurting anything.
Do you really only go out of your way (choose) associate with people that are like you? I'm not sure what to say about that...
I am pretty active in my city's tabletop gaming scene (board games, PnP RPGs etc) and, have to say, my table is open to anyone that's a decent person. We have folks from across the economic, social, political, gender, ethnic, whatever else, spectrums playing happily.
Segregation only leads, ultimately, to ignorance IMO.
Makes sense, you all share the same interest. How do you differ than me on this?
Because I don't choose to only hang out 'with my own kind'?
These are just my gaming buddies in that one area. I happily extend that same philosophy right across my life.
Comments
Exclusion is an inherent part of guilds.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
"The whole PURPOSE of a guild is to EXCLUDE others."
No....it's NOT! Guilds are here to draw like minded people together. Not leave others out. The small percentage that DO leave others out...and it IS a small percentage....are too small to care about.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
And anyway whats even the problem here? Why do you care/bother what guilds other people join? You should focus on youself not others.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
It really isn't any of our business, though. Every guild has a process, and every guild has a type, it's why there's guilds in the first place. The fact that certain games are able to sustain gender-specific guilds is just a sign of a demand for those spaces within the game.
Hell, there were guilds in WoW that required you to send them proof of your age before letting you in - is it excessive? Maybe, but it's just a means to an end -- they don't care if the people they're playing with are of age or not, they just don't wanna take chances. Stereotypes (and personal experience) would lead us to believe that younger players tend to behave problematically (duh?), so they're cut, and no-one's got a problem with that.
I'd even say that the creation of such spaces within a gaming community can be a good thing. If people *really* don't want to cause problems brought forth by interactions with a specific gender, then let it be, they may be better off playing on their own, away from the rest of the playerbase.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Same here.
It doesn't exist because I haven't seen it.
Everyone welcome on the LGBTQ rainbow<3
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
I have never seen this. Is this a thing? I guess? I have seen a few asinine GMs and guild members.
If you are in such a guild that rejects applicants purely based on gender stereotypes I guess that says as much about you than it says about them. That's what /gquit is for.
I have seen guilds that only had female characters, but not female players, doesn't mean they don't exist, but they must be very rare if they have never showed up in any of the games i play
What's the real difference then? IF you're simply drawing like minded players, you're excluding anyone who isn't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your burka comment is extremely ignorant and stupid. There are girl only schools just as there are guy only schools. It's been a very prevalent thing in private education for a very long time not only in this country, but others as well. The idea of coed education is actually the newer idea here (it wasn't really a popular idea until the 20th century but even back when my grandparents were in school in the 1930s, many schools were still single sex). Nowadays though most of the single sex schools are Catholic schools. I went to an all girls high school and my brother went to our brother school, an all boys school. We had all our social events with them, etc.
According to many studies done over the years, students with single sex educations (either high school or college) like that tend to not only do better on tests and are more successful after graduating, because they can focus on their studies, but come out as more self confident, self assured adults, having a better sense of self and more able to avoid peer pressure. When you don't have to worry about what your hair and makeup looks like (the fact that girls wear so much makeup in high school today makes me so sad), what clothes you're wearing, how you're acting, it's an entirely different experience that carries through even into a coed college life and into adulthood. It takes away a lot of the unnecessary concerns of high school in a time when you already have a lot going on. Especially for girls, learning in a single sex environment helps a lot. And students in single sex schools still socialize with those of the opposite sex outside of school the same way anyone else would, so it's not like they don't live otherwise normal lives and have entirely normal social skills. You just don't see them in school during the day.
As for this thread, you're a real drama queen (and yes I see that you're a guy, my comment still stands). I have honestly never had an issue in guilds because I'm a girl. People that do have problems need to find better, more mature guilds to hang out in. But as a girl I have to say there's a lot of girls that try to attract attention intentionally, also others that are real drama queens. Many gamer girls are annoying personally and it's often the young 20 somethings that probably are as socially awkward in real life as the guys they claim to dislike in game that cause problems more often. Yes there are definitely guys out there that are equally to blame but I feel like everyone already agreed with that statement. Just don't act like every girl is entirely innocent because they're not. I have never had a problem and there's a reason for that - I act like a mature adult and do my best to find like-minded guildmates.
You're never going to get along with everybody and that's as true outside of games as it is inside. Especially in the workplace. Mature adults find ways to get along with everyone and don't make a big deal out of the people they dislike. Avoid it if you can, but things often aren't a big deal unless you make it out to be a big deal. Ignore it and move on - or if it's that bad, move to another guild with people you like better.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Are we talking about individuals who identify as female, or just biological female? If the former, would a guy be allowed in a single gender guild if he said that this was the case? Would a girl be banned if she identified as male? What about post op...
Yeah... I'm being facetious here, I admit, don't bother answering.
The truth is that I find any of these self imposed social barriers (as in any single type guild) ridiculous. Nothing good comes off them and, if anything, they can create only more alienation, suspicion, and distrust among people who probably just would not care. Why build yourself into a social ghetto? Get out there and show people who you are and why they should like you!
In all the MMORPG guilds I have been in I have never seen any trouble based on sex. Success in guilds comes down to two things; can you play (are you useful?) and do you cause drama.
Looking to complicate it past that is pointless, and even damaging.
Really? That little bit of trolling was all you could muster up the energy to reply with? The standards around here are dropping.
Look, some of it was said with a wry smile, but the points remain (gender and sex not being the same, the self imposed social ghetto, etc) that you could have zeroed in on and addressed if you are interested in a conversation.
But you chose to post this...
Tribalism. Nobody can change it, no matter what rules or laws are passed.
Just like I choose to live near and associate with only people that are like me. I also think that people not like be should be able to do the same.
I don't think that if a guild chooses to do this, is hurting anything.
It's not like the OP or others like him., are going to join that guild if they allowed him to. Women's Rights groups are the only ones complaining that the Marines didn't have women grunts. But now that the USMC are opening up for that, you'll NEVER see these same Women's Rights groups enlisting in droves.
This is just another case of people wanting to be somewhere they are not welcomed.
OP while i understand what you are trying to say. Or at least what i think you are trying to say... That equality should go both ways and in to every part of life...
Here is the reality of it.... "We" as a society (or several with similar values and codes) are not at a point where we can apply that idea. We should absolutley work towards it... But we are pretty damm far from that point.
it is not discrimination per se.... Discrimination would be if they let you in to the guild but did not give you any raid spot purely based on your gender.
What they are doing is being excluding. Now in many cases these are freely interchangeable but they are not always the same. In this very specific case there is a well established reason as to why they choose to exclude the people they do.
A bit like how a members only club for people with alternative sexuality might choose to not let a *happy*-basher in as a member. Or how a Ferrari enthusiast club might exclude anyone not owning a Ferrari.
Now i am sure you might very vell be the nicest and most respectful guy on the planet... But since you live in a time and place where not everyone shares your high ideals... You simply have to accept that you have to pay for those peopels crime. But at least you can take solace in the knowledge that theer are enough female gamers that guilds like this can exists.
This have been a good conversation
Do you really only go out of your way (choose) associate with people that are like you? I'm not sure what to say about that...
I am pretty active in my city's tabletop gaming scene (board games, PnP RPGs etc) and, have to say, my table is open to anyone that's a decent person. We have folks from across the economic, social, political, gender, ethnic, whatever else, spectrums playing happily.
Segregation only leads, ultimately, to ignorance IMO.
Makes sense, you all share the same interest. How do you differ than me on this?
Aww thank you for this<3
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
Because I don't choose to only hang out 'with my own kind'?
These are just my gaming buddies in that one area. I happily extend that same philosophy right across my life.