Best we don't reply to each other from now on Jean-Luc. That would be nice.
Wouldn't that be convenient ?
As long as you will keep on posting nonsense that doesn't reflect the reality, or compare apples to oranges, I'll be there, like that little itch in your back that you can't scratch.
"Nothing is worse than having an itch you can never scratch!" Leon, Blade Runner, Ridley Scott, 1982.
Sorry, I love my apples, no matter how much you will be trying to promote your oranges, and "The Pub" forum here is still about apples, aka MMORPGs. If you've suddenly fallen in love with single player games, maybe you should stick to forums which are meant for those games, like Witcher3, which is indeed a VERY good game... that would stop you from being butthurt every time someone tells you that you're out of place comparing things that can't be compared.
Ok, if you insist. Well I too love MMOs and am just disappointed in the way things have unfolded and I'd love someone to come out and do something different from the end-game grind. I've always respected Blizzard (bought and played every one of their games and versions/upgrades) until they very obviously decided to drop the investment and increase the profits i.e. updates have become poorer and the endgame grind comes quicker. How do you keep interested in WoW after all those hours and accounts?
That's your apples, and I like oranges too - sounds like you do also
Sounds like the same people who sometimes tell others "don't buy Alfa Romeo, BMW is better" or "Don't buy ATI, nVidia is better"... and the answer is, I make my own decisions when it comes to my leisure activities, and I don't give a shit about what some self righteous "redeemed" ex-players think about it, and even less about what people comparing apples ("Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game") with oranges ("Offline Role Playing Game") are thinking.
It's about just as wrong as someone telling me " you are wrong drinking coffee, because tea is better". Apples and oranges.
This is the best answer so far. While opinions of a video games or video game genres are useful for someone like the OP to go "Because I hate the genre means everyone needs to hate it" is beyond ignorance.
You guys are just putting words in his mouth. It's like you started reading then made up your mind on what was going to say before actually reading and processing the words he wrote. Is it that exciting to find an opportunity to defend something you like that you'd invent a dialogue from thin air just to enable your ego to win an argument that didn't even exist?
At any rate, I agree with him that the genre could use a serious influx of creativity. I don't see the point in resisting more creativity in any endeavor. It's bizarre to me to see how narrow the genre has become in general when it began with such wildly varied games. And no I am not saying 'don't like things I don't like', everyone likes different things, I am simply sharing my perspective.
You can certainly see RPG's as a genre that has not dumbed down on quality. There was a time when the genre seemed to be dying out, but its resurgence has been strong. The tendency to make follow ups which are cheap rip offs compared to the original is as strong as it is anywhere else in the gaming industry however.
The repetition and lack of serious imagination and investment in MMO production has started to turn me off the genre, so I looked elsewhere into the more traditional RPG-type of game.
Taking WoW/Blizzard as an example, the game and company is giving you 1 month at most, of new content at any one time, then they are relying on you to grind the same old thing day after day to get a reward. The treadmill starts again a few months later and there's the monthly fee to pay for the pleasure.
I admit I'm tired of many MMOs now as the endgame is unfulfilling. Rinse and repeat. So I bought and tried Witcher 3. Jeez, such a better option. I reckon I can make the game last 3-4 months with all there is no do in it and with my casual approach of 1-2 hours a night as there's so much to do. I don't feel compelled to keep on it as there's no-one to compete with for 'gear' and I'm not paying a monthly sub. If I need something else to do in 3 months and there's no DLC, then I'll pick out another game. That's how it used to be before MMOs and I must admit, for me, that's the way it's heading with a genre that is lacking in investment, is tired and it repetitive even in games that do different themes.
The MMO companies need to work a lot harder to retain the interest of the public and at his stage, I don't think they are.
The secret world is the only mmorpg ive played that resembles a good rpg in general and where I actually enjoy soloing to an extent. Anyways your completely right op.
SWTOR is a better example on how you can play solo in an MMORPG environment.
Especially now when you have boost xp on main storyline.
MMO's needs more innovation..That's all I cann say, continuous updates make a game more intense and enjoyable especially when it is an old MMORPG. Just like RBF, they still continue updates and still alive as of this time, imagine they started 2008 and still kicking as of this year 2015. Its a matter of innovation and that's all.
Sounds like the same people who sometimes tell others "don't buy Alfa Romeo, BMW is better" or "Don't buy ATI, nVidia is better"... and the answer is, I make my own decisions when it comes to my leisure activities, and I don't give a shit about what some self righteous "redeemed" ex-players think about it, and even less about what people comparing apples ("Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game") with oranges ("Offline Role Playing Game") are thinking.
It's about just as wrong as someone telling me " you are wrong drinking coffee, because tea is better". Apples and oranges.
Not necessarily, even I can see when it's more of being a mindless drone than a player when it comes to MMO's these days. That is why I look for deep story SANDBOX type MMOs. The best themepark MMO in the industry is undoubtably TSW. This is much less subjective than you'd think. Why? Because all the MMO's are the same and because of that, I and many others have had years upon years to give you that conclusion. Therefore, I agree with OP.
Change your thoughts and you change your world. -
Norman Vincent Peale
I'm sticking with this because it's inexpensive and highly entertaining to me anyway. Sorry you have lost the feel for it OP. I suggest some of the survival games like the Forest or ARK. They are somewhat like an mmorpg but with way less restrictions and more sandboxy/open world.
I went with my friends snow skiing last winter and I just watched. I don't like winter sports but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep doing what they like to do. From my point of view all they were doing was riding up the hill side in a lift and sliding back down and doing that all day long. (there was occasional beer drinking in between though!) "Rinse and repeat" as you called it. To each their own!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
So don't play a WoW style gear grinder game. Try something with a different model altogether. Guild Wars 2 is a great one that I'm familiar with and I'm sure others can offer suggestions they're familiar with.
I haven't been playing MMOs as much as I used to because they're all a close derivative off one another. All of my close friends who used to stopped as well. Most of us get around 2-4 hours of free time a day after jobs, errands and other responsibilities. Gone are the days where we could spend 6+ hours a day on an MMO and get a sense of progression.
Singleplayer rpg's gives me a different sort of experience every time, themepark mmorpg's and diablo-style arpg's gives me the same one over and over again. It doesn't matter if its warhammer, warcraft, star wars or elder scrolls, same progression, same endgame.
Problem is that I don't know what mmorpg developers could do to bring me back. I can say what's wrong with my experience but I can't tell them how to do it better without spending a fortune on development costs. With singleplayer rpg's its easier to tailor an experience for more kinds of players and there is no need to artificially lengthen the lifetime of the game. You can make an rpg that lasts 5 or 50 hours, with mmorpg's you need to create content for 500 hours.
I miss the unique social interaction that occurs within mmorpg's but as games they fall short.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
It's the very reason the only MMO I play now is Planetside 2. It's all about the players, and so many creative ways to be killed or kill. It's been over 2 years now since I've been playing and I still get many moments that are thrilling as it's real people with real minds and a load of nice toys and big world to go do it with. I can jump in for 30mins or stay for 5 hours. For a great story and relaxed play, there is great single player games like you said.
In all honesty I have been going through the same kind of crisis that the OP has and I don't blame him for feeling as he does. I decided to take a step back and try to remind myself why I loved mmo's in the first place by going back to what led me to them. In my case, I reinstalled Diablo 2(yes, I'm well aware it's not an mmo). Been playing that a bit and remembering how great a game it is. From there I started bouncing around in ARPG land and realized that they tend to do loot a lot better than almost every mmo does. I wish more mmo's would follow suit. Thankfully Asheron's Call 2(my first full mmo) actually did loot the same way. The only trouble is its almost painful to watch as graphics go so going back to it is difficult.
So I have been bouncing from mmo to mmo a lot lately retracing my steps and I came to a rather odd conclusion about many of them. They were amazing at the time, but they are pretty bad now. And the reason seems to be the updates. It seems counterintuitive but it seems that a lot of the time the dev's decide to switch directions on the kind of game they are running and decide to take it a different direction that wasn't what I was interested in and they ruin it. I find myself pinning for games that are still technically running, but just aren't there anymore.
A great example is Aion. It's a graphically beautiful game. I loved it when it released. I was totally fine with the pvpve and the rifting(even if it meant getting ganked alot) I loved the abyss and the flying. Now it's a game where everyone has wings but endgame has very little if any actual flight. Just the occasional gliding. PvP is only really at the endgame since they pretty much killed rifting. And the level and gear cap increases pretty much assure that a new player will have little hope competing in a reasonable amount of time without resorting to exploiting the cash shop. I would love to go back to the game as it was in 1.9, but in the current 3.8 I'm much less enthused. They have taken what was a very promising game and compromised too much on it's own vision.
Guild Wars 2 was another game that I was really enjoying.... up until they added more gear tiers and forced the fractal dungeon down everyone's throat and then the living story. It was great that they were adding new content, but you had to play it on their schedule or you missed it. I understand they fixed that somewhat. I came back and now it feels like I'm walking into the middle of someone else's story. It's like the personal story post lvl 30 all over again. I just wish they would focus on making content that wasn't all here today gone tomorrow. If they did that rather than this terrible story, they would have more content than anyone.
Been bouncing around and still looking for something worth playing that understands that I have a life outside gaming.
MMO is not about the story. It is about your story with the other players. Here most of the MMORPGs fail completely. There is some solo story, some solo quests, and some multiplayer options. Competition is limited to dress up contests. Cooperation is pointless, except in few cases. The only thing you must do is to grind mobs or quests - and that is often the same. And over this background so many people keep insist that MMORPGs shall be solo friendly games. Well they are solo friendly. And every singleplayer RPG is better. Every MOBA is better too, because it is a real multiplayer game. MMORPG has to take the best from RPG and MMO and to put it into one immersive world. Instead MMORPGs take the worst - the grind and the pointless competition for artificial achievements.
I completely agree with this. Most of the modern MMOs, bizarrely, focus on and develop the weak aspects of an MMO - solo play and story (particularly where you are the 'One True Saviour', which makes absolutely zero sense in an MMO), and ignore the strengths - massive multiplay, a living, populated world and user-generated story. They end up like a stale, hobbled, watered down version of a single player game.
Comments
Ok, if you insist. Well I too love MMOs and am just disappointed in the way things have unfolded and I'd love someone to come out and do something different from the end-game grind. I've always respected Blizzard (bought and played every one of their games and versions/upgrades) until they very obviously decided to drop the investment and increase the profits i.e. updates have become poorer and the endgame grind comes quicker. How do you keep interested in WoW after all those hours and accounts?
That's your apples, and I like oranges too - sounds like you do also
You guys are just putting words in his mouth. It's like you started reading then made up your mind on what was going to say before actually reading and processing the words he wrote. Is it that exciting to find an opportunity to defend something you like that you'd invent a dialogue from thin air just to enable your ego to win an argument that didn't even exist?
At any rate, I agree with him that the genre could use a serious influx of creativity. I don't see the point in resisting more creativity in any endeavor. It's bizarre to me to see how narrow the genre has become in general when it began with such wildly varied games. And no I am not saying 'don't like things I don't like', everyone likes different things, I am simply sharing my perspective.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Every Internet Guy!
SWTOR is a better example on how you can play solo in an MMORPG environment.
Especially now when you have boost xp on main storyline.
Not necessarily, even I can see when it's more of being a mindless drone than a player when it comes to MMO's these days. That is why I look for deep story SANDBOX type MMOs. The best themepark MMO in the industry is undoubtably TSW. This is much less subjective than you'd think. Why? Because all the MMO's are the same and because of that, I and many others have had years upon years to give you that conclusion. Therefore, I agree with OP.
I'm sticking with this because it's inexpensive and highly entertaining to me anyway. Sorry you have lost the feel for it OP. I suggest some of the survival games like the Forest or ARK. They are somewhat like an mmorpg but with way less restrictions and more sandboxy/open world.
I went with my friends snow skiing last winter and I just watched. I don't like winter sports but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep doing what they like to do. From my point of view all they were doing was riding up the hill side in a lift and sliding back down and doing that all day long. (there was occasional beer drinking in between though!) "Rinse and repeat" as you called it. To each their own!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Actually I agree w/ the OP.
I haven't been playing MMOs as much as I used to because they're all a close derivative off one another. All of my close friends who used to stopped as well. Most of us get around 2-4 hours of free time a day after jobs, errands and other responsibilities. Gone are the days where we could spend 6+ hours a day on an MMO and get a sense of progression.
Singleplayer rpg's gives me a different sort of experience every time, themepark mmorpg's and diablo-style arpg's gives me the same one over and over again. It doesn't matter if its warhammer, warcraft, star wars or elder scrolls, same progression, same endgame.
Problem is that I don't know what mmorpg developers could do to bring me back. I can say what's wrong with my experience but I can't tell them how to do it better without spending a fortune on development costs. With singleplayer rpg's its easier to tailor an experience for more kinds of players and there is no need to artificially lengthen the lifetime of the game. You can make an rpg that lasts 5 or 50 hours, with mmorpg's you need to create content for 500 hours.
I miss the unique social interaction that occurs within mmorpg's but as games they fall short.
In all honesty I have been going through the same kind of crisis that the OP has and I don't blame him for feeling as he does. I decided to take a step back and try to remind myself why I loved mmo's in the first place by going back to what led me to them. In my case, I reinstalled Diablo 2(yes, I'm well aware it's not an mmo). Been playing that a bit and remembering how great a game it is. From there I started bouncing around in ARPG land and realized that they tend to do loot a lot better than almost every mmo does. I wish more mmo's would follow suit. Thankfully Asheron's Call 2(my first full mmo) actually did loot the same way. The only trouble is its almost painful to watch as graphics go so going back to it is difficult.
So I have been bouncing from mmo to mmo a lot lately retracing my steps and I came to a rather odd conclusion about many of them. They were amazing at the time, but they are pretty bad now. And the reason seems to be the updates. It seems counterintuitive but it seems that a lot of the time the dev's decide to switch directions on the kind of game they are running and decide to take it a different direction that wasn't what I was interested in and they ruin it. I find myself pinning for games that are still technically running, but just aren't there anymore.
A great example is Aion. It's a graphically beautiful game. I loved it when it released. I was totally fine with the pvpve and the rifting(even if it meant getting ganked alot) I loved the abyss and the flying. Now it's a game where everyone has wings but endgame has very little if any actual flight. Just the occasional gliding. PvP is only really at the endgame since they pretty much killed rifting. And the level and gear cap increases pretty much assure that a new player will have little hope competing in a reasonable amount of time without resorting to exploiting the cash shop. I would love to go back to the game as it was in 1.9, but in the current 3.8 I'm much less enthused. They have taken what was a very promising game and compromised too much on it's own vision.
Guild Wars 2 was another game that I was really enjoying.... up until they added more gear tiers and forced the fractal dungeon down everyone's throat and then the living story. It was great that they were adding new content, but you had to play it on their schedule or you missed it. I understand they fixed that somewhat. I came back and now it feels like I'm walking into the middle of someone else's story. It's like the personal story post lvl 30 all over again. I just wish they would focus on making content that wasn't all here today gone tomorrow. If they did that rather than this terrible story, they would have more content than anyone.
Been bouncing around and still looking for something worth playing that understands that I have a life outside gaming.
I completely agree with this. Most of the modern MMOs, bizarrely, focus on and develop the weak aspects of an MMO - solo play and story (particularly where you are the 'One True Saviour', which makes absolutely zero sense in an MMO), and ignore the strengths - massive multiplay, a living, populated world and user-generated story. They end up like a stale, hobbled, watered down version of a single player game.