Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
In the wake of the FFVII Remake teaser ......
SIlverfox74
Member UncommonPosts: 10
With the entertainment community seemingly running out of new ideas for movies and games we see this happening more and more where old material, in this case old Materia, is recycled, reused , refaced, and used once again as semi-new media. Which we have all seen most reboots, remakes fail miserably in fact almost comedic to where we are now getting to where we enjoy watching the awfulness and laugh, example why we love Sharknado.
So the question I ask here, the discussion I wish to start a dialog among us players, community members is this, Has gaming technology, graphics, overall player maturity (not as in childishness but as in wanting more then what we have) ready and in want of a Remake of Star Wars: Galaxies? No I'm not rehashing/reliving glory days! Not at all. I watched the teaser trailer for FFVII and thought yeah it was a great story I wouldn't mind walking through /rereading again. At the end I thought, we're ready for SWG now.
SWG is ready for a remake...NOT a reboot with better graphics, but a remake. SWG had issues, and lots of them. Enough time has gone by and we still don't have a really great Star Wars MMORPG, yes yes there is SW:TOR but that is in my opinion to much a bioware game, its really too close to KotOR:online with its heavy heavy story driven, theme park roller coaster ride, now that is ok to a point but I think our community of players has matured enough and aged enough that we want more, we want to make our world not just quest hop through zone.
Yes updated graphics are nice, but SWG was ahead of its time in terms of players wanting to build there own cities, where there are no raid teams farming gear and the best gear is player made. Where crafters hire other players to collect resources or do protection duty as a hired gun while they collect stuff. Where a character had some blaster skills and tracking skills and some basic medical skills.
Keep in mind this is not a SWG glory day post, its not a bring SWG back, its a make a new SWG with good graphics, but true sandbox play no theme parks no classes, no item levels, no character levels. Thank you for taking the time to read this and for sharing your opinions and comments. After all this is what makes us a community sharing ideas debates, good and bad.
Comments
There was a thread on this topic just a few days ago, but I'll repost my feelings on it again here.
Are we ready? If it can be created and maintained for a reasonable price, with no expectation of pulling a huge audience, yes.
Thats the kicker though. No one is in the business of just making a good product when it comes to games. They want to make the next big thing. People are inclined to think that if they aren't making something new, it isn't worth creating. Until someone has success creating an older-style game, its going to be a tough pitch garnering financial support of such a project.
My answer is, yes, I think the fans are ready. The question is, who is going to gamble and try to bring us this game?
I don't believe that what so ever. I think it's an excuse, just as any other. Suggesting that people "Just aren't ready for it" is a bit far-fetched. I think that the mentality has just changed. The demand isn't what it used to be, and I don't think people are going to just "come around". There are plenty of places that I could get an SWG fix if I really wanted. The fact that these places have server population of less than 1000, though, shows that it might be a niche, but isn't something you'd actually sink money into developing. Same goes for Pantheon. I think they began to crap their pants with their KS campaign.
Now, if the gameplay is good, then I think you'll get fans wherever you go. I just don't think that there are as many people out there as you think who want a game about "Nothing". It's actually funny because I remember this Seinfeld episode back in the day where George had this idea for a TV show about "Nothing". It's kinda reminds me of sandbox games a bit.
Either way, I think the way that Pantheon is going now is really the best way to do it. It's got to be more about passion than money because I just don't think the money is there the same way it once was.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
One, lack of creativity has nothing to do with FF7 remake, they vehemently did not want to remake that game. That is the product of their audience screaming at them non-stop to remake that game. The remake of FF games before that was an attempt to reclaim those titles from gamer antiquity, which they did, but FF7 seemed like a legacy they wanted to leave alone. They just finally caved to pressure.
Two, yes, bring on SWG remake please and thank you. I have no intention of playing it, I'm just tired of seeing that pop up in MMO discussions like it was God's gift to man. Either the rose-tinted glasses will finally come off when people realize they didn't miss the game as much as they thought, or they'll finally get to play it and will stfu about it. Win/win, either way.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
It's more difficult to pull off because the rights lie with different publishers.
EA currently has the Star Wars license through their deal with Disney, while SOE (Daybreak) no doubt has some license regarding the engine and gameplay. Square doesn't have that problem, since FFVII has always been theirs completely.
It'd be nice of EA to corner the whole market on Star Wars MMOs, but the problem lies in convincing them that it'd be worth the effort. As Dullahan pointed out above, developers (and publishers) like to chase the money, and even the greatest sandbox games have difficulty matching the revenue of today's popular sandbox MMOs.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
SWG was a buggy mess built around great concepts and made exceptional by the community. I do not believe such a community would exist in today's era of MMOs, therefore a "remake" of SWG or similar would not bring back the longed-for experience.
You only have to play SWG again to see how it fares in today's era of self-focused power gamers.
You're implying something changed.
But if you look back at the game we're discussing you'll realize we're talking about 2003's SWG. WOW released in 2003 as a gameplay-focused game, contrasting against SWG's simulation focus. Which game did better: WOW or SWG?
So nothing changed with players' tastes or mentality. Players have always preferred a gameplay-focused game over a simulation. (For exactly the reason you cite: simulations often feel like "nothing".)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't think Square is ready for the fallout when the remake inevitably falls short of the original.
That said, this is the first time I've wanted a new console since PS1.
That's what I said when it was first revealed. I might actually cave in and get one at some point... then again, my Xbox 360 (last console I bought) has been used so little that it's practically still pristine. =/
Now it's just another thing that needs dusting. >.<
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You can only redo the same game so many times.Having different titles like Kotor for example,still feels like the same SW's game with a different skin.
So what would happen is we get yet another game called Star Wars ........
Having mentioned FFVII yes they do the same thing,rehashing the Final Fantasy theme and Blizzard the Warcraft theme.I never really said i liked that either lol.To me it was simply a progression from cheaper console games to the elite online MMORPG,so i accepted it all along the way.
Another SW's game would simply not create much excitement,more so a "here we go again".I am also glad you mentioned Bioware,not a Triple A developer in my books,they do ok but not good enough,better at single player offline gaming.
I feel it is time to move on,if a developer makes a solid game it will sell no matter what title it carries,it has just been EASY for them to rehash prior success.I could do without the FF or Warcraft ideas as well,be creative,give us a new era to get excited about.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Very good discussion going on here. I think there is really good contrast of opinions.
I do agree that game-play focused style games are what is currently pulling the market and has since WoW launch. That is the question being asked, is part of the decline in MMO's not from lack of choices or lack of story it is in fact because we players of the MMO genre have grown up, matured. We are no longer College dorm dwelling guys farming PVP rep and climbing leader boards or trying to become a career pro-gamer in e-sports.
As we age as we mature ore needs become different. We still love gaming but we are tired of seeing the next PVP era game going on to the next big hype. We are no longer trendy our music is no longer cutting edge. We do have something that replace those features, we have patience, we have time management skills, we have most importantly .... MONEY. As adults we have jobs in the real world and we don't have 14 hrs a day to farm rep or camp spawns or PVP arena. We most certainly do have social skills, we see the world a little different now as managers, degree holders, and bank account managers.
I think building a game off the concepts SWG had, such as no character class or level restrictions rather a more skill based system will appeal to us older gamers. Will it pull in the tweeners that beg mom and dad for stuff... no. Will it attract the people who directly earn the money , why yes. I think building a game set in the time line of the original films also caters to us older people that grew up watching New hope, Empire strikes back, and return of the Jedi in theaters and had all the toys as kids.
The next big thing may be for the MMO developers to stop targeting 13-17 year olds, and start selling games targeted to the 30+ market. I know there is a lot of players especially MMORPG'ers that are 30+ and looking for something relevant to them and tired of kiddie games and oversexed Korean art.
Great feedback and great discussion, looking forward to reading more opinions!
Actually there are more college kids (and younger) than ever chasing the pro-gamer career these days.
They just don't happen to care about MMOs, they're playing MOBAs instead, and in some cases RTS games (and of course FPS titles). The prize money you see being awarded at League of Legends tournaments alone is pretty sick.
Another sign of how much the focus has shifted.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Ah yes!!!!
with the younger people shifting away and leaving us older folks in MMO's does that support or hinder the SWG remake idea?
Good question. I think it mostly removes a lot of people from the PvP pool, which is noticeable in a lot of today's MMOs. (after all, they can just jump in and do what they like to do immediately, without grinding for a month to be even remotely competitive)
Not sure how that impacts a game like SWG.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Doing a direct, modern reboot of SWG would be a poor move. Being under the thumb of Lucas/Disney is not the way to approach a non cash cow game. Yeah, the lure of Star Wars is still there, but the strings attached are serious ones. Not like the original game was able to leverage that when faced with the more specific power of the Warcraft brand.
There are a metric ton of SF universes out there. Almost every one would have less trouble from the licensees.
Taking the working ideas of SWG, and cutting out the abject failures, could lead to an interesting game.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
The viability is more proportional to the playerbase.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Very good point.
But we are also in a drastically different era of MMO gaming now then we were back in 2003. The target audience is changed and with George "insanity" Lucas removed from decisions made on Lucas Arts. AND with the new upcoming Star wars movie that is happening Post era of movies and roughly 3000+ years after what is happening in SWtor. I'd say there is something there.
SWG sold a million copies but to my knowledge only every had a sustained a high of 300k subs, competing against the, then brand new WoW and the release of EQ2 plus the first gen of F2P Korean style games.
Much Much different environment today both from a fan base wise, and marketing idea.
I'd love to see someone take the core concepts and make a new game, Maybe get tossed into the Battle of Hoth and move forward from there on a non-Jedi story. Call it SWG2.
You're over-simplifying a bit, don't you think?
Do more people prefer gameplay focused games over simulations? Sure. I'd say that's arguably a fair bet to make, in any genre. Shooters tend to fare better than flight sims, etc. you could also point out that there's a market for people who prefer sims over gameplay-focused products. And of course, there are people who enjoy and play both equally (I'm in that camp, personally). At the end of the day, it doesn't matter - the existence of one does not disqualify the other.
Also, there are many factors that contributed to WoW's success, as well as SWG's lesser success... and it goes beyond what style of game they were, in both cases.
That said, you're playing the WoW card to make a point? Seriously?
Comparing SWG to WoW as a way to prove people like gameplay over simulation is pretty lazy. You could prove just about any point by using WoW as your comparison. You could say "Warcraft is a more popular IP than Star Wars, because WoW's population is much bigger than SWTOR's". WoW's success has been so anomalous, and so beyond the norm, that to compare just about anything to it is pointless.
I'm sure you realize that.
What's George Lucas got to do with it? Was he part of any decision made at LucasArts?
The audience, as I covered earlier, hasn't changed. They still want games a lot. They still want simulators a little. Unless you're referring to how SWG changed its target audience mid-stream (they abandoned their simulator userbase (who then left) chasing after gamers (who had already left and weren't coming back.))
Basically the types of games that attract players are based in their underlying psychological compulsions, and that's unlikely to have changed noticeably in the mere ~33 years since the earliest videogame sims competed with their more game-like contemporaries. Flight Simulator was big, but it was never Pac Man or Super Mario big.
Interest in Star Wars will undeniably grow with the new movies' release, but was SWG ever really Star Wars? Star Wars is lightsabers, jedis, good vs. evil, a coming-of-age tale, and a redemption story. It's a lot of things, but it's not an economic/crafting simulator.
A good IP is still going to attract players of course, but IPs fit poorly with sandboxes (sandboxes aren't about being handed a story.) The only IP I can think of suited to sandbox play is LEGO (and similar construction set lines.) Everything else tends to be a stretch at best (Night of the Living Dead isn't really about constructing a zombie defense, and Kingdom of Heaven isn't all about constructing a siege defense, but you could make a sandbox game themed to either IP.) Granted, if I was making a sandbox and had a choice between Star Wars and nothing it would be a pretty tough choice.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Right I'm not saying there's zero interest in simulators. I'm saying that (a) there's less interest and (b) the relative interest (compared with games) hasn't changed.
Why precisely are you implying I'm wrong to "play the WoW card"? We're talking about two games which released in nearly identical conditions where even before the NGE mistake SWG was nowhere close to WoW's popularity. Given Star Wars is obviously a more well-known IP than Warcraft (moreso back then), the main differentiating factor is the gameplay. We probably couldn't ask for a more clear-cut case of gamers preferring games over simulators.
You act as though the world isn't deterministic, and that WoW's success is some form of chaos magic that randomly happened. That's just not how these things work.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'd have to argue against the underlined. Every Blizzard fan was, by definition, a game player. No such generalization could be made about Star Wars fans. Not a clearcut example, though I'd agree with the general premise.
Also, SWG was not really well run at the top. Especially in comparison with Blizzard's early handling of WoW.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Lucas did make decisions at LucasArts. Erratically and usually ill informed, unfortunately. And there was a hierarchy of bureaucrats who enforced the weird Lucas Star Wars ideas.
Very good point on how SWG wasn't really fully into the Star Wars iconography. I knew folks who were on the dev team who absolutely thought that as well. I'd personally rather have a game/simulation unencumbered by that IP.
I'd disagree about IPs generally fitting poorly to sandboxes. You need an interesting IP that fits the genre well instead of one that seems good to the marketing team. Some sort of framing device is helpful, otherwise it's just a flat, plain, start building and killing experience. While Minecraft is close to that, it's ability to choose who plays was important to its success. I feel an interesting world is really important. It sets the stage for the theatrics. The folks who don't care about thatare more likely to swing to the Moba end of things anyway.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
What do you mean about Minecraft being about "choosing who plays"?
I see Minecraft as being deliberately devoid of an IP identity of its own. Small distinctions exist (the art style, creepers, the player model) which are what sets it apart, but the game is overwhelmingly a blank canvas for players to place their own creations.
I'm not against framing devices, but that's because I (like most players) prefer games over simulations. Pure simulation is boring, flat, and plain, whereas the hand-crafted world of FFVII represents a story being told to you and specific game rules to master.
The more that devs control authorship of the experience by establishing an IP identity, the less freedom players have to author the experience. You can take a few steps in that direction of the spectrum while still being considered a sandbox, but you'll certainly be less of a sandbox (and more of a themepark) than if you left everything up to the player.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver