Hey Somnulus, I respect what you said. If I was a diehard lover of D&D and expected an MMO to have the same impact on me, I would be disappointed, too.
It's purely opinion, but in the several years of PnP experiences, in particular D&D, V: Dark Ages, Marvel, DC, Star Wars, etc, etc, there's not an MMO out there that comes w/in the business district of delivering what PnP can.
MMOs will never mimic a PnP experience until every NPC in the game has it's own AI, and the adventure plays off of decisions that you and/or your group makes. That's what PnP is, it's the GM explaining a scene to his players, the players reacting to it, then the DM reacting to his player's reactions, so on, so forth. I think you'd agree that kind of symbiotic relationship is simply not present in MMOs. If you or anyone else has seen one, let me know, I'll try it out.
I'm not bashing your opinion or even arguing w/ you, Som. I just think that PnP and MMO's are too different right now for someone to have the same experience. That's actually another challenge of naming an MMO D&D, though. It's gonna disappoint alot of folks like yourself, and for that I'm sorry, man.
Originally posted by m1ndgame Hey Somnulus, I respect what you said. If I was a diehard lover of D&D and expected an MMO to have the same impact on me, I would be disappointed, too. It's purely opinion, but in the several years of PnP experiences, in particular D&D, V: Dark Ages, Marvel, DC, Star Wars, etc, etc, there's not an MMO out there that comes w/in the business district of delivering what PnP can. MMOs will never mimic a PnP experience until every NPC in the game has it's own AI, and the adventure plays off of decisions that you and/or your group makes. That's what PnP is, it's the GM explaining a scene to his players, the players reacting to it, then the DM reacting to his player's reactions, so on, so forth. I think you'd agree that kind of symbiotic relationship is simply not present in MMOs. If you or anyone else has seen one, let me know, I'll try it out. I'm not bashing your opinion or even arguing w/ you, Som. I just think that PnP and MMO's are too different right now for someone to have the same experience. That's actually another challenge of naming an MMO D&D, though. It's gonna disappoint alot of folks like yourself, and for that I'm sorry, man.
That is true; it would be incredibly difficult to emulate the variety that a GM can provide.
The problem is that DDO does not even make an attempt at approximating that atmosphere. While I, like yourself, have not yet played an MMO that provided an exact emulation of my PnP experiences, I have played one or two that provided a huge amount of quality content, crafting, travel, lore (one of them designed by Turbine, ironically) and allowed me to enjoy questing and exploring a huge game space with my friends, regardless of where we physically were in the real world.
What it comes down to for me is this; if we were talking about an MMO that was not based on an existing PnP system, then the omissions and claustrophobic game space would be a little easier to accept, at a minimum.
More importantly, if there was ever a PnP system that called for a huge, robust gaming world teeming with adventure, chock full of NPCs, a robust crafting system and requiring just about every roleplaying mechanic that could be reasonably developed, Dungeons and Dragons is it.
Finally, for me, there is another bottom line. If, as I suspect, DDO is less than successful in the long term, what are the chances that another attempt will ever be made to create an online Dungeons and Dragons? This could very well be the one and only MMO ever developed based on D&D, at least within my lifetime. Which for myself and many other D&D fans would be a real shame.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
I disagree, (and ok, this is gonna be a tad off topic).
LOTR had a less than stellar cartoon film made of it. Was that the end of the story - obviously not.
Why? Because the books excited the imagination of so many, it was just a matter of time until one of them was able to do them justice.
I would love to play to good post apocalipic MMO, and it will come, because a game called Fallout blew the mind of many people of about my age, and one of those guys is a serious guy in a software company & is going to make it happen.
D&D will have it's time. There are too many programmers out there that will not rest until it has come.
Nick
The race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that's the way to bet.
Comments
Hey Somnulus, I respect what you said. If I was a diehard lover of D&D and expected an MMO to have the same impact on me, I would be disappointed, too.
It's purely opinion, but in the several years of PnP experiences, in particular D&D, V: Dark Ages, Marvel, DC, Star Wars, etc, etc, there's not an MMO out there that comes w/in the business district of delivering what PnP can.
MMOs will never mimic a PnP experience until every NPC in the game has it's own AI, and the adventure plays off of decisions that you and/or your group makes. That's what PnP is, it's the GM explaining a scene to his players, the players reacting to it, then the DM reacting to his player's reactions, so on, so forth. I think you'd agree that kind of symbiotic relationship is simply not present in MMOs. If you or anyone else has seen one, let me know, I'll try it out.
I'm not bashing your opinion or even arguing w/ you, Som. I just think that PnP and MMO's are too different right now for someone to have the same experience. That's actually another challenge of naming an MMO D&D, though. It's gonna disappoint alot of folks like yourself, and for that I'm sorry, man.
That is true; it would be incredibly difficult to emulate the variety that a GM can provide.
The problem is that DDO does not even make an attempt at approximating that atmosphere. While I, like yourself, have not yet played an MMO that provided an exact emulation of my PnP experiences, I have played one or two that provided a huge amount of quality content, crafting, travel, lore (one of them designed by Turbine, ironically) and allowed me to enjoy questing and exploring a huge game space with my friends, regardless of where we physically were in the real world.
What it comes down to for me is this; if we were talking about an MMO that was not based on an existing PnP system, then the omissions and claustrophobic game space would be a little easier to accept, at a minimum.
More importantly, if there was ever a PnP system that called for a huge, robust gaming world teeming with adventure, chock full of NPCs, a robust crafting system and requiring just about every roleplaying mechanic that could be reasonably developed, Dungeons and Dragons is it.
Finally, for me, there is another bottom line. If, as I suspect, DDO is less than successful in the long term, what are the chances that another attempt will ever be made to create an online Dungeons and Dragons? This could very well be the one and only MMO ever developed based on D&D, at least within my lifetime. Which for myself and many other D&D fans would be a real shame.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
I disagree, (and ok, this is gonna be a tad off topic).
LOTR had a less than stellar cartoon film made of it. Was that the end of the story - obviously not.
Why? Because the books excited the imagination of so many, it was just a matter of time until one of them was able to do them justice.
I would love to play to good post apocalipic MMO, and it will come, because a game called Fallout blew the mind of many people of about my age, and one of those guys is a serious guy in a software company & is going to make it happen.
D&D will have it's time. There are too many programmers out there that will not rest until it has come.
Nick
The race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that's the way to bet.
I really love this game. I pre-ordered, but I wouldn't recommend a pre-order if you feel you have to ask the question at all.
Instead, I'd wait a month or two. Let Turbine add more content, and then the number one complaint about the game will become a lot less severe.