There are 2 MOBA games that are *hugely* popular LoL and Dota2. That's 95% of moba population. Over 50 million monthly players right there.
Even other relatively popular games like HOTS and Smite have pale numbers in comparison.
That's the problem with MOBA market, it is huge but nobody is willing to venture outside of those 2 big games.
Gold nugget post.
The only reason MOBAs are popular at the moment has been due to the success of LoL and Dota2. Without those two games MOBAs would be nothing. That said, the MOBA genre craze is taking the same path as the MMORPG genre craze did with WoWs success. Developers have jumped on the MOBA band wagon in an attempt to capitalize on LoL's success. And the games have come with a fury because MOBAs are much easier to design and develop, and less resource intensive, than MMORPGs. But as has been said already, MOBAs are a one trick pony. Most players will stick with the most populated one or two because once you've played one, you've played them all. It is all a matter of time before there is a paradigm shift away from MOBAs. As a matter of fact, we are already starting to see signs of it happening. MOBAs are a fad. And like all fads, their time will pass.
Granted, you're on mmorpg.com, so the local audience just might be a wee biased.
But if Coin-Op Arcades and Fighting Games and DOOM+Quake were all fads that the years rolled right on past...
We can hope that MMOs have the durability of (say) billiards or chess. But we probably can't prove that they will.
But they've already been around for longer than coin-op arcades...
Your message here is a little muddled by including highly successful genres alongside coin-op arcades. FPSes are the second-biggest gaming genre. Even fighting games still make up a solid 6%. (Even adventure games make up 6%!)
While individual games do tend to die off as the years roll on, their genre foundations remain interesting to players. Part of the success of Poker and Chess during pre-videogame history was due to how few options people had back then. If introduced today as new games, it's possible neither of these games would even been noticed among the daily deluge of games released.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
MOBAs are a fad. And like all fads, their time will pass.
Like the other type of game in this dicussion?
Granted, you're on mmorpg.com, so the local audience just might be a wee biased.
But if Coin-Op Arcades and Fighting Games and DOOM+Quake were all fads that the years rolled right on past...
We can hope that MMOs have the durability of (say) billiards or chess. But we probably can't prove that they will.
But they've already been around for longer than coin-op arcades...
I think what he means, and what I mean is that their hyper-popularity will pass. Right now if you game on PC you probably dabble in MOBAs. There is over a 50% chance you have played a MOBA within the last 6 months.
I believe this can only get lower, but I don't think it will ever die, just like MMOs won't ever die.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I want to address a couple of things. Those being Scott Hartsman's recent comments and the idea of "played one, played them all."
Regarding Trion Worlds CEO comments:
First off, I have to say that is a company that has had it's ups and downs. Heck they put their stake in with Archage. That game is buggy beyond reason, laggy the second you look at anything more then trees and field, incentivizes malicious play, has massive issue with the player owned housing system (principle amongst them is that it is exploited with player to player extortion). Just saying. this company has had to try and keep it's head about water for a while now. Just sayin' remember where such comments are coming from and that as a CEO Scott Hartsman is a mouthpiece now.
Secondly, his words were chosen very diplomatically (as can be expected in his position). He did not say MMORPG's are more popular then ever. he said "The general idea of people wanting to play with other people online is still the biggest type of gameplay that exists."
Now, what form that takes cannot be fully known. But, given the looks of Devilian Online. A good bet might be genre hybridization. Additionally, this is a statement backed by...we don't know what. experience? Some sort of data we don't get to see? What sounds best for an interview? Point being it is actually a pretty ambiguous statement and not something to fairly base an outlook off of.
How many big titles were going to shake things up, and then fell flat, fell short, went back on what they said, didn't get that unanimous blue ribbon, pushed release dates up and up, or have not been raved about in a while now? Tera, EQ Next, Archage, Wildstar, Black Desert, Teso etc. etc. etc.
Concerning a non-argument:
"Once you have played one, you have played them all" has been said a couple times now in regards to MOBA and I call bs for two reasons. Firstly, you can just as fairly apply that to MMORPG. Or really any game genre. What makes it a genre is that they are a like in major respects. What makes one game worth playing over others within a genre are those small differences. how many of them there are, and what a game does the same but better then another one within it's own genre. These are the kind of things wer have debated about on these very forums regarding MMORPG. But, slap an obvious statement and a a brand for dismissal on it because it's not your type of game. And, just go ahead and forget that the same sort of branding applies to the kinds you like. It's intellectually dishonest.
Secondly, a lot of people who had that tone in regards to MOBA Are changing their tune. One YouTuber I watch in specific is a good example of this. Chaosd1, channel MMOGrinder. He has changed his tune a lot about MOBA. While he wants to only review F2P MMORPG. He has flat out admitted that he keeps finding good cause to actually look at some of the newer MOBA as they release. Because, they are not all exactly the same. They are of a kind (again this just makes them a genre). But, they do actually have significant differences that change the play experience. Of course there are going to be some outright clones. But, so is the case with MMORPG.
Lol at people saying MOBAs and MMORPGs have different demographics and as such, don't compete. You make it sound like every MMORPG player would never touch a MOBA and the other way around. In reality most gamers play multiple genres and stick to particular games. I'm extremely big on MMOs, played them for ages, however, that didn't stop me from getting absorbed into LoL and dumping 3k hours into it because I found it more enjoyable than the majority of current MMORPGs on the market. Heck, had a PvP focused guild in an MMO last summer, where we all played 12-16h/day for 3 months nonstop. 90% of them are playing Smite or LoL atm.
Point is that, while they're different genres, they DO compete and many gamers will pick a game to play between both of them . If the MOBAs outweight the MMOs in production value, then more people will flock to them.
I'm the hardcore player, the one that rushes lvl cap before you even finish the starting area.
Lol at people saying MOBAs and MMORPGs have different demographics and as such, don't compete. You make it sound like every MMORPG player would never touch a MOBA and the other way around. In reality most gamers play multiple genres and stick to particular games. I'm extremely big on MMOs, played them for ages, however, that didn't stop me from getting absorbed into LoL and dumping 3k hours into it because I found it more enjoyable than the majority of current MMORPGs on the market. Heck, had a PvP focused guild in an MMO last summer, where we all played 12-16h/day for 3 months nonstop. 90% of them are playing Smite or LoL atm.
Point is that, while they're different genres, they DO compete and many gamers will pick a game to play between both of them . If the MOBAs outweight the MMOs in production value, then more people will flock to them.
There will always be some people who have interests in more than one genre, you can look also at the people who play MOBA's and some of them, will also have some interest in MMO's, but even the types of players who are interested in MOBA's is split into different types of MOBA's in much the same way as there are different types of MMO's, how many players of World of Tanks for instance, would ever consider playing League of Legends?
The term MOBA covers far more game types than the term MMO does, Counterstrike easily fits into the category of game that is defined by the term MOBA, Multiplayer, Online, Battle Arena, which is basically any Multiplayer game, that has a series or even just one for that matter, Arena Map, a more recent game Splatoon also fits very well in this category, along with Starcraft 2.
Its a category of games that is growing, they don't require a large resource base, as there are no persistent worlds to worry about, nor the resource issues that are also associated with huge numbers of concurrent users in those worlds, a game like League of Legends has far less hardware requirements for the 'hosts' than even World of Warcraft does, their also far easier to modify and monetize. By the same token however, that also means they can also suffer from 'churn' to a higher degree than you might find with MMO's, at the moment League of Legends is ahead of its competitors, but that can change very rapidly as new games appear on the scene, something that happens a lot faster than would be the case with an MMO, where the games take 5 years or so to develop, MOBA's tend to have a much shorter development process, and are also more likely to be open to players during the beta process, imo it also means that individual MOBA's are unlikely to have the kind of longevity that is usually associated with MMO's, not only that, but MOBA's like League of Legends, are more likely to find competition from games or app's that use smart phones as their primary platform.
They already are replacing MMOs. And new games will come which are even more dumbed down than MOBA's and start to replace them. The writing has been on the wall for a very long time; cheaper, game hopping design which uses gameplay breaking, casino cash shops.
I believe this can only get lower, but I don't think it will ever die, just like MMOs won't ever die.
Neither will coin-op arcades. After all, Dave and Busters is still carrying the torch.
The parallels are obvious. Technology rolls on, and continuously accelerates. What was once the biggest thing always becomes, eventually, a quaint and antiquated fossil.
If you really expect anything to never die, sit down and have a chat with your parents.
Neither will coin-op arcades. After all, Dave and Busters is still carrying the torch.
The parallels are obvious. Technology rolls on, and continuously accelerates. What was once the biggest thing always becomes, eventually, a quaint and antiquated fossil.
If you really expect anything to never die, sit down and have a chat with your parents.
Certainly it depends on the definition of "dead".
Coin-op was probably once the majority (over 50%) of videogame revenue, but if my previous link's "arcade" category is coin-ops then they're not 0.1% of videogame revenue. That's about as close to financial "death" as it gets.
Whereas RPGs are still 9.5% overall and while that presumably combines both MMO and non-MMO games it's still a healthy genre players are interested in, and has shown little sign of dying by any definition.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Lol at people saying MOBAs and MMORPGs have different demographics and as such, don't compete. You make it sound like every MMORPG player would never touch a MOBA and the other way around. In reality most gamers play multiple genres and stick to particular games. I'm extremely big on MMOs, played them for ages, however, that didn't stop me from getting absorbed into LoL and dumping 3k hours into it because I found it more enjoyable than the majority of current MMORPGs on the market. Heck, had a PvP focused guild in an MMO last summer, where we all played 12-16h/day for 3 months nonstop. 90% of them are playing Smite or LoL atm.
Point is that, while they're different genres, they DO compete and many gamers will pick a game to play between both of them . If the MOBAs outweight the MMOs in production value, then more people will flock to them.
There will always be some people who have interests in more than one genre, you can look also at the people who play MOBA's and some of them, will also have some interest in MMO's, but even the types of players who are interested in MOBA's is split into different types of MOBA's in much the same way as there are different types of MMO's, how many players of World of Tanks for instance, would ever consider playing League of Legends?
The term MOBA covers far more game types than the term MMO does, Counterstrike easily fits into the category of game that is defined by the term MOBA, Multiplayer, Online, Battle Arena, which is basically any Multiplayer game, that has a series or even just one for that matter, Arena Map, a more recent game Splatoon also fits very well in this category, along with Starcraft 2.
Its a category of games that is growing, they don't require a large resource base, as there are no persistent worlds to worry about, nor the resource issues that are also associated with huge numbers of concurrent users in those worlds, a game like League of Legends has far less hardware requirements for the 'hosts' than even World of Warcraft does, their also far easier to modify and monetize. By the same token however, that also means they can also suffer from 'churn' to a higher degree than you might find with MMO's, at the moment League of Legends is ahead of its competitors, but that can change very rapidly as new games appear on the scene, something that happens a lot faster than would be the case with an MMO, where the games take 5 years or so to develop, MOBA's tend to have a much shorter development process, and are also more likely to be open to players during the beta process, imo it also means that individual MOBA's are unlikely to have the kind of longevity that is usually associated with MMO's, not only that, but MOBA's like League of Legends, are more likely to find competition from games or app's that use smart phones as their primary platform.
It's funny you mention WoT players that won't go full MOBA. I know quite a few of people exactly like that. But, at the same time WoT is very MOBA. Most of the maps are 3 lane control maps (with choke points and control points). There are usually two team respective bases. And variants include king of the hill and assault modes. Fights are usually an exchange back and forth (as apposed to one hit kills) that one can retreat from. The tanks them selves effectively have stuns and counters. There is something of a soft lock system for targeting. There is even something of a class system with different builds and cross classing. You even have the response time needed to think about a situation taking things like vehicle weight, armor, penetration, range, terrain and back up into consideration... When you get to know the game, it's more MOBA then it is shooter. And, thinking of it like a MOBA as you play can actually help you win a lot more.
I think this goes to your point that while MOBA has a puerile no non-sense form to it. It also is very broad and can include many things you not immediately think of as MOBA.
Right now are MOBAs on the rise while MMOs have lost income but games genres tend to go up and down. Turned based strategy games were considered dead a few years back but AoW3 have changed that, a new Heroes game is one the way and Steam is filled with the genre.
MOBAs is something new and popular but I don't they in themselves are the reason that MMOs lost money and players lately MMORPGs devs just have been too lazy copying eachothers the last 10 years and eventually do many players tire of doing the exact same thing over and over.
Something different could change that fast, or even if it doesn't the genre will eventually get a comeback anyways, gaming genres tend to do that. If nothing new and really good comes out though that might take years (5-10 isn't unlikely). MMORPGs is just too good of an idea to just die out.
You can see the same trends in music, movies and even fashion. Old ideas comes back and fade with time until they become popular again.
There are some new MMORPGs in development that will change the genre.
People have been saying that for ages. And they are still saying it.
While the others, who enjoy the present instead of waiting for an hypothetical ideal future, are playing and having fun.
The number of people playing MMOs is incredibly small compared to other genres. Theres over 3 billion people on the internet, and the active MMO playerbase of the top 20 games is somewhere around 1% of that. You can pretend that everything is great as a themepark apologist, but the rest of us are smirking at you.
What you just did is just like saying "there are 7 billion people on the planet, and the active baseball player base is less than 1% of that". It makes no sense.
So you post bullshit, and then as a bonus, add some pathetic insults to it so your post looks even more stupid.
It only took two posts to remind me why I had you on "block" before I cleared my list a few days ago. Welcome back to it.
If your remarks weren't so caustic and biased, people wouldn't be inclined to respond to you that way. Quite obviously, many people are here because they DON'T enjoy the industry's current offerings. We can't all be themepark apologists with 1,000s of hours in WoW pretending everything is peachy. Sorry pointing that out always hurts your feelings so.
Clearly I wasn't suggesting that every person on the internet was inclined to play online games, let alone MMOs, thats why I specifically predicated the statement by saying COMPARED TO OTHER GAMES. Reading comprehension.
MOBAs have already over-saturated the market. They aren't on their way out, but people who are interested have tried them out and already decided whether to play one or not. Everybody and their dog has created a MOBA to get on the bandwagon that left years ago.
Right now we're seeing a resurgence of PvP based MMOS (AA, Albion, Crowfall, etc.) that will oversaturate the PvP market. There really aren't any primary PvE MMOs coming down the pike, almost every game you read about here and elsewhere is primarily PvP with some PvE pinned on it to provide some targets for the PvPers. Very few of these are going to find a substantial player base; PvE players are now pretty hip to the gankbox come-on of "safe zones" and justice systems and other crappy attempts to keep PvE players happy while providing PvPers with that wonderfully "target rich environment".
All this means is that players looking for a truly "safe" PvE gameplay are sticking with older MMOs that delivery a satisfying day in the themepark: WoW, LOTRO, Rift, EQ, etc.
The results is that a bunch of new MOBAs and PvP-focused MMOs are coming out and they will struggle to find their audience among PvPers, while PvEers are Meh about their offerings. This is, of course, what PvPers have always wanted. So that day has finally arrived. Enjoy.
I don't really think MMORPGs are on the way out. I think that Tripple A MMO releases are though, but that doesn't mean much as there hasn't really been a good amount of quality Tripple A games (in general) in recent years anyways. Like others have said though, these are two entirely different genres. People looking for MOBAS are looking for a quick 15 minute to 1 hour experience that they can hop into every once in a while; people looking for MMOs are looking for games that will devour their time.
That's an interesting take. I took a look at a few indie MMORPG. Looked on google trends again. Older Indie MMORPG like Project Gorgon and The Mana World show that same sharp 2009 fall off...But, it isn't nearly as dramatic from there out. Almost steady interest.
Let's look at the chart in 5 years, MOBA's likely drop, some other genre jumps to popularity among many genres that have existed in some way for long time... There's a lot of MMORPG's and people play them, just not new thing anymore and as people are scattered around in different games, they don't show so much on top statistics like that. MOBA offers much of the appeal of MMORPG, as does a (MMO)FPS or even CGG, so they may replace MMORPGs for some people for some amount of time.
What we need is someone with balls to invest money into legit attempt at making follower to UO, EQ, SWG, AO type of games, something that would tickle us bitter veterans just in the right spot and attract many new players as well. Pretty much has to be group of industry veterans with clear vision and plenty of cash and kickstarter or so. Those with ideas, don't have the money. Those with money have better things to do (in their minds at least).
Questions is how much person is willing to put their life into a game and what sort of soializing the seek from the game. There's the unfortunate thing that quick MOBA match, quick WoW log in queue up a dungeon log out thing works for many people. How many of us adults really end up playing hours on ends, adventuring a fantasy world and socializing with people? It requires some proper nerds whose (gaming) life revolves around the single MMORPG they play for years... I do think there's definitely room for great attempt at this sort of game, part of the target audience is here on MMORPG.com. People will come if the game is good. Something to look for model is games like Dark Souls...
EVE is our there and some other games, but we want something else, something better for us, that we know already existed once. MMORPG just have this nature of getting crappy due to monetization and "brilliant" ideas over the years.
It's all about money really... Who invests into a MMORPG with many dated seeming mechanics directed for "random" group of old gamers, doesn't sound very appealing to the business people. Then how this MMORPG nirvana will develop, start up and survive free from any attempts at making the game much more approachable to larger audience and wild monetization ideas over many years? Even though there's examples in history that it likely ends up fucked, the allure of short term profit becomes too great in most companies.
I think many of the companies don't have focused enough development to really craft well thought out MMORPG, really get into human psychology... Blizzard figured some things... but still, I think there's many who want to attain a social status in the game in different ways and that you can really stand out in your own way, that's one things where Blizzard sucks, also promoting socializing they suck at. Core MMORPG stuff they suck at, lol. I guess it comes down to, as I mentioned, how important is socializing for the gamer. And I dare to say that there's so many people who would be enjoy socializing if the game even bit tried to dorve people into that direction, it would be attraction of the game, but these companies don't apparently believe much in socializing. Which is understandable, considering how people can act in anonymous online game.
But, it is just google (it's really hard to down play how all encompassing google is with a strait face. But, I am making an honest effort). So, supporting evidence? Well a while back super data research looked into the top grossing MMO's.
I would honestly like to ask why do you believe that MMORPGs and MOBAs compete for the same type of player?
Quoting super data is only a bit worse than using wiki as being a factual source.
But, it is just google (it's really hard to down play how all encompassing google is with a strait face. But, I am making an honest effort). So, supporting evidence? Well a while back super data research looked into the top grossing MMO's.
I would honestly like to ask why do you believe that MMORPGs and MOBAs compete for the same type of player?
Quoting super data is only a bit worse than using wiki as being a factual source.
they do. plain and simple.
Plain and simple? or just disingenuous and obfuscated? There is no evidence that they do, and Superdata retains its reputation for dubious statements, or is that too plain and simple?
But, it is just google (it's really hard to down play how all encompassing google is with a strait face. But, I am making an honest effort). So, supporting evidence? Well a while back super data research looked into the top grossing MMO's.
I would honestly like to ask why do you believe that MMORPGs and MOBAs compete for the same type of player?
Quoting super data is only a bit worse than using wiki as being a factual source.
they do. plain and simple.
No they don't. I play MMO's and not mobas. There.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
But, it is just google (it's really hard to down play how all encompassing google is with a strait face. But, I am making an honest effort). So, supporting evidence? Well a while back super data research looked into the top grossing MMO's.
I would honestly like to ask why do you believe that MMORPGs and MOBAs compete for the same type of player?
Quoting super data is only a bit worse than using wiki as being a factual source.
they do. plain and simple.
No they don't. I play MMO's and not mobas. There.
Which is the case most of the time, if anything MOBA's are now starting to decline, one is shutting down, and others, such as smite, are circling the drain, even the most popular MOBA, LoL appears to have plateaued and may even be showing signs of decline, while there are some new MOBA's, Splatoon etc. that appear to be gaining ground. MOBA's will remain in one form or another, but its a shifting market, far more so than MMO's are.
Comments
Gold nugget post.
The only reason MOBAs are popular at the moment has been due to the success of LoL and Dota2. Without those two games MOBAs would be nothing. That said, the MOBA genre craze is taking the same path as the MMORPG genre craze did with WoWs success. Developers have jumped on the MOBA band wagon in an attempt to capitalize on LoL's success. And the games have come with a fury because MOBAs are much easier to design and develop, and less resource intensive, than MMORPGs. But as has been said already, MOBAs are a one trick pony. Most players will stick with the most populated one or two because once you've played one, you've played them all. It is all a matter of time before there is a paradigm shift away from MOBAs. As a matter of fact, we are already starting to see signs of it happening. MOBAs are a fad. And like all fads, their time will pass.
Like the other type of game in this dicussion?
Granted, you're on mmorpg.com, so the local audience just might be a wee biased.
But if Coin-Op Arcades and Fighting Games and DOOM+Quake were all fads that the years rolled right on past...
We can hope that MMOs have the durability of (say) billiards or chess. But we probably can't prove that they will.
But they've already been around for longer than coin-op arcades...
Your message here is a little muddled by including highly successful genres alongside coin-op arcades. FPSes are the second-biggest gaming genre. Even fighting games still make up a solid 6%. (Even adventure games make up 6%!)
While individual games do tend to die off as the years roll on, their genre foundations remain interesting to players. Part of the success of Poker and Chess during pre-videogame history was due to how few options people had back then. If introduced today as new games, it's possible neither of these games would even been noticed among the daily deluge of games released.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think what he means, and what I mean is that their hyper-popularity will pass. Right now if you game on PC you probably dabble in MOBAs. There is over a 50% chance you have played a MOBA within the last 6 months.
I believe this can only get lower, but I don't think it will ever die, just like MMOs won't ever die.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I want to address a couple of things. Those being Scott Hartsman's recent comments and the idea of "played one, played them all."
Regarding Trion Worlds CEO comments:
First off, I have to say that is a company that has had it's ups and downs. Heck they put their stake in with Archage. That game is buggy beyond reason, laggy the second you look at anything more then trees and field, incentivizes malicious play, has massive issue with the player owned housing system (principle amongst them is that it is exploited with player to player extortion). Just saying. this company has had to try and keep it's head about water for a while now. Just sayin' remember where such comments are coming from and that as a CEO Scott Hartsman is a mouthpiece now.
Secondly, his words were chosen very diplomatically (as can be expected in his position). He did not say MMORPG's are more popular then ever. he said "The general idea of people wanting to play with other people online is still the biggest type of gameplay that exists."
Now, what form that takes cannot be fully known. But, given the looks of Devilian Online. A good bet might be genre hybridization. Additionally, this is a statement backed by...we don't know what. experience? Some sort of data we don't get to see? What sounds best for an interview? Point being it is actually a pretty ambiguous statement and not something to fairly base an outlook off of.
How many big titles were going to shake things up, and then fell flat, fell short, went back on what they said, didn't get that unanimous blue ribbon, pushed release dates up and up, or have not been raved about in a while now? Tera, EQ Next, Archage, Wildstar, Black Desert, Teso etc. etc. etc.
Concerning a non-argument:
"Once you have played one, you have played them all" has been said a couple times now in regards to MOBA and I call bs for two reasons. Firstly, you can just as fairly apply that to MMORPG. Or really any game genre. What makes it a genre is that they are a like in major respects. What makes one game worth playing over others within a genre are those small differences. how many of them there are, and what a game does the same but better then another one within it's own genre. These are the kind of things wer have debated about on these very forums regarding MMORPG. But, slap an obvious statement and a a brand for dismissal on it because it's not your type of game. And, just go ahead and forget that the same sort of branding applies to the kinds you like. It's intellectually dishonest.
Secondly, a lot of people who had that tone in regards to MOBA Are changing their tune. One YouTuber I watch in specific is a good example of this. Chaosd1, channel MMOGrinder. He has changed his tune a lot about MOBA. While he wants to only review F2P MMORPG. He has flat out admitted that he keeps finding good cause to actually look at some of the newer MOBA as they release. Because, they are not all exactly the same. They are of a kind (again this just makes them a genre). But, they do actually have significant differences that change the play experience. Of course there are going to be some outright clones. But, so is the case with MMORPG.
Lol at people saying MOBAs and MMORPGs have different demographics and as such, don't compete. You make it sound like every MMORPG player would never touch a MOBA and the other way around. In reality most gamers play multiple genres and stick to particular games. I'm extremely big on MMOs, played them for ages, however, that didn't stop me from getting absorbed into LoL and dumping 3k hours into it because I found it more enjoyable than the majority of current MMORPGs on the market. Heck, had a PvP focused guild in an MMO last summer, where we all played 12-16h/day for 3 months nonstop. 90% of them are playing Smite or LoL atm.
Point is that, while they're different genres, they DO compete and many gamers will pick a game to play between both of them . If the MOBAs outweight the MMOs in production value, then more people will flock to them.
I'm the hardcore player, the one that rushes lvl cap before you even finish the starting area.
There will always be some people who have interests in more than one genre, you can look also at the people who play MOBA's and some of them, will also have some interest in MMO's, but even the types of players who are interested in MOBA's is split into different types of MOBA's in much the same way as there are different types of MMO's, how many players of World of Tanks for instance, would ever consider playing League of Legends?
The term MOBA covers far more game types than the term MMO does, Counterstrike easily fits into the category of game that is defined by the term MOBA, Multiplayer, Online, Battle Arena, which is basically any Multiplayer game, that has a series or even just one for that matter, Arena Map, a more recent game Splatoon also fits very well in this category, along with Starcraft 2.
Its a category of games that is growing, they don't require a large resource base, as there are no persistent worlds to worry about, nor the resource issues that are also associated with huge numbers of concurrent users in those worlds, a game like League of Legends has far less hardware requirements for the 'hosts' than even World of Warcraft does, their also far easier to modify and monetize. By the same token however, that also means they can also suffer from 'churn' to a higher degree than you might find with MMO's, at the moment League of Legends is ahead of its competitors, but that can change very rapidly as new games appear on the scene, something that happens a lot faster than would be the case with an MMO, where the games take 5 years or so to develop, MOBA's tend to have a much shorter development process, and are also more likely to be open to players during the beta process, imo it also means that individual MOBA's are unlikely to have the kind of longevity that is usually associated with MMO's, not only that, but MOBA's like League of Legends, are more likely to find competition from games or app's that use smart phones as their primary platform.
Neither will coin-op arcades. After all, Dave and Busters is still carrying the torch.
The parallels are obvious. Technology rolls on, and continuously accelerates. What was once the biggest thing always becomes, eventually, a quaint and antiquated fossil.If you really expect anything to never die, sit down and have a chat with your parents.
Certainly it depends on the definition of "dead".
Coin-op was probably once the majority (over 50%) of videogame revenue, but if my previous link's "arcade" category is coin-ops then they're not 0.1% of videogame revenue. That's about as close to financial "death" as it gets.
Whereas RPGs are still 9.5% overall and while that presumably combines both MMO and non-MMO games it's still a healthy genre players are interested in, and has shown little sign of dying by any definition.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It's funny you mention WoT players that won't go full MOBA. I know quite a few of people exactly like that. But, at the same time WoT is very MOBA. Most of the maps are 3 lane control maps (with choke points and control points). There are usually two team respective bases. And variants include king of the hill and assault modes. Fights are usually an exchange back and forth (as apposed to one hit kills) that one can retreat from. The tanks them selves effectively have stuns and counters. There is something of a soft lock system for targeting. There is even something of a class system with different builds and cross classing. You even have the response time needed to think about a situation taking things like vehicle weight, armor, penetration, range, terrain and back up into consideration... When you get to know the game, it's more MOBA then it is shooter. And, thinking of it like a MOBA as you play can actually help you win a lot more.
I think this goes to your point that while MOBA has a puerile no non-sense form to it. It also is very broad and can include many things you not immediately think of as MOBA.
Right now are MOBAs on the rise while MMOs have lost income but games genres tend to go up and down. Turned based strategy games were considered dead a few years back but AoW3 have changed that, a new Heroes game is one the way and Steam is filled with the genre.
MOBAs is something new and popular but I don't they in themselves are the reason that MMOs lost money and players lately MMORPGs devs just have been too lazy copying eachothers the last 10 years and eventually do many players tire of doing the exact same thing over and over.
Something different could change that fast, or even if it doesn't the genre will eventually get a comeback anyways, gaming genres tend to do that. If nothing new and really good comes out though that might take years (5-10 isn't unlikely). MMORPGs is just too good of an idea to just die out.
You can see the same trends in music, movies and even fashion. Old ideas comes back and fade with time until they become popular again.
If your remarks weren't so caustic and biased, people wouldn't be inclined to respond to you that way. Quite obviously, many people are here because they DON'T enjoy the industry's current offerings. We can't all be themepark apologists with 1,000s of hours in WoW pretending everything is peachy. Sorry pointing that out always hurts your feelings so.
Clearly I wasn't suggesting that every person on the internet was inclined to play online games, let alone MMOs, thats why I specifically predicated the statement by saying COMPARED TO OTHER GAMES. Reading comprehension.
MOBAs have already over-saturated the market. They aren't on their way out, but people who are interested have tried them out and already decided whether to play one or not. Everybody and their dog has created a MOBA to get on the bandwagon that left years ago.
Right now we're seeing a resurgence of PvP based MMOS (AA, Albion, Crowfall, etc.) that will oversaturate the PvP market. There really aren't any primary PvE MMOs coming down the pike, almost every game you read about here and elsewhere is primarily PvP with some PvE pinned on it to provide some targets for the PvPers. Very few of these are going to find a substantial player base; PvE players are now pretty hip to the gankbox come-on of "safe zones" and justice systems and other crappy attempts to keep PvE players happy while providing PvPers with that wonderfully "target rich environment".
All this means is that players looking for a truly "safe" PvE gameplay are sticking with older MMOs that delivery a satisfying day in the themepark: WoW, LOTRO, Rift, EQ, etc.
The results is that a bunch of new MOBAs and PvP-focused MMOs are coming out and they will struggle to find their audience among PvPers, while PvEers are Meh about their offerings. This is, of course, what PvPers have always wanted. So that day has finally arrived. Enjoy.
I don't really think MMORPGs are on the way out. I think that Tripple A MMO releases are though, but that doesn't mean much as there hasn't really been a good amount of quality Tripple A games (in general) in recent years anyways. Like others have said though, these are two entirely different genres. People looking for MOBAS are looking for a quick 15 minute to 1 hour experience that they can hop into every once in a while; people looking for MMOs are looking for games that will devour their time.
That's an interesting take. I took a look at a few indie MMORPG. Looked on google trends again. Older Indie MMORPG like Project Gorgon and The Mana World show that same sharp 2009 fall off...But, it isn't nearly as dramatic from there out. Almost steady interest.
Let's look at the chart in 5 years, MOBA's likely drop, some other genre jumps to popularity among many genres that have existed in some way for long time... There's a lot of MMORPG's and people play them, just not new thing anymore and as people are scattered around in different games, they don't show so much on top statistics like that. MOBA offers much of the appeal of MMORPG, as does a (MMO)FPS or even CGG, so they may replace MMORPGs for some people for some amount of time.
What we need is someone with balls to invest money into legit attempt at making follower to UO, EQ, SWG, AO type of games, something that would tickle us bitter veterans just in the right spot and attract many new players as well. Pretty much has to be group of industry veterans with clear vision and plenty of cash and kickstarter or so. Those with ideas, don't have the money. Those with money have better things to do (in their minds at least).
Questions is how much person is willing to put their life into a game and what sort of soializing the seek from the game. There's the unfortunate thing that quick MOBA match, quick WoW log in queue up a dungeon log out thing works for many people. How many of us adults really end up playing hours on ends, adventuring a fantasy world and socializing with people? It requires some proper nerds whose (gaming) life revolves around the single MMORPG they play for years... I do think there's definitely room for great attempt at this sort of game, part of the target audience is here on MMORPG.com. People will come if the game is good. Something to look for model is games like Dark Souls...
EVE is our there and some other games, but we want something else, something better for us, that we know already existed once. MMORPG just have this nature of getting crappy due to monetization and "brilliant" ideas over the years.
It's all about money really... Who invests into a MMORPG with many dated seeming mechanics directed for "random" group of old gamers, doesn't sound very appealing to the business people. Then how this MMORPG nirvana will develop, start up and survive free from any attempts at making the game much more approachable to larger audience and wild monetization ideas over many years? Even though there's examples in history that it likely ends up fucked, the allure of short term profit becomes too great in most companies.
I think many of the companies don't have focused enough development to really craft well thought out MMORPG, really get into human psychology... Blizzard figured some things... but still, I think there's many who want to attain a social status in the game in different ways and that you can really stand out in your own way, that's one things where Blizzard sucks, also promoting socializing they suck at. Core MMORPG stuff they suck at, lol. I guess it comes down to, as I mentioned, how important is socializing for the gamer. And I dare to say that there's so many people who would be enjoy socializing if the game even bit tried to dorve people into that direction, it would be attraction of the game, but these companies don't apparently believe much in socializing. Which is understandable, considering how people can act in anonymous online game.
according to your logic, mankind is dieing and the apocalypse is at hand.
proof 1: declining search results on mankind: https://www.google.de/trends/explore#q=mankind
proof 2: rising search results on the apocalypse: https://www.google.de/trends/explore#q=apocalypse
totaly proven.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
they do. plain and simple.
Plain and simple? or just disingenuous and obfuscated? There is no evidence that they do, and Superdata retains its reputation for dubious statements, or is that too plain and simple?
No they don't. I play MMO's and not mobas. There.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Which is the case most of the time, if anything MOBA's are now starting to decline, one is shutting down, and others, such as smite, are circling the drain, even the most popular MOBA, LoL appears to have plateaued and may even be showing signs of decline, while there are some new MOBA's, Splatoon etc. that appear to be gaining ground. MOBA's will remain in one form or another, but its a shifting market, far more so than MMO's are.