Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
DDO Getting a Sequel?
dink
Member Posts: 438
I'm asking because the game has been around so long that my google search on the subject brought back junk results. This might also indicate that Turbine isn't working on a sequel too, but I'm hopeful.
DDO used to be one of my favorite games, but I haven't played it for a while and when I reinstalled it, the game just played terribly. It is a really ancient engine that doesn't handle player position well and the systems for a long time have been aimed at veteran players who are willing to pay for repeated character reincarnations to accumulate epic feats, so it has become ridiculously inaccessible. Don't get me wrong, what makes this game interesting is the crunch, but I would be far more interested in playing a new game with a modern engine and production values that uses 5e.
Also, the community seems to be ALL veterans, so everything is rushed. I get it to some degree, because I've beaten most of the content - 100% of it low-level and I know it and rushing is thus mostly fine. I can solo most of it too because I know the game's systems and I have enough money to buy potions and/or a hireling healer. . . but that isn't a fun game. . . and to be honest, I'm not that interested in the game at high levels because you have to start changing up your gear for different enemies so that you have the resistances you need - so this creature you need to have a cloak that prevents you from death shots, and then for rust monsters you need a ranged weapon, and others are weak to this or that sword because they are outsiders. . . I hate the itemization in the late game and/or having to have a wizard or high enough use magic device skill to throw on protection from whatever elements that dungeon throws at you and every other buff. This makes the content really easy too, but it's so easy to use these buffs and you can get your clock cleaned so easily if you don't, that it is basically a requirement.
So. . . yeah. . . any rumors or word of a possible sequel.
Comments
I will be honest I think DDO will just one day shut down and not in 10 years. I think much sooner this game will shut down. I have friends who have played DDO for a long time. Like you said they are vets of the game, however no real new blood in the game which will cause turbine to not make money. When I played I hated that most people were F2P players that could not do many of the fun long dungeons. So after about a good 5 month stint I just said screw it I could never find people to do the dungeons because they were F2P players. Add to that the endless talk about smoking pot and yet I was driven away by the community.
I liked the core game however I honestly feel that it would be hard for MMO players who are use to a lot faster leveling and a world to go play in to deal with the dungeon crawl of this game. Because least face it thats all this game is, one dungeon after another, the open areas is just for you to get to more dungeons. Then add to that how many F2P players there are that can do most of the dungeons. To me everything points to this game shutting down sooner than later.
I think the next best D&D game will be is the sword cost legends and I will telll you that might just kill DDO off. I would rather play SCL than DDO as a D&D fan.
I kinda doubt that we would see a DDO2. Online D&D based games is another matter and Neverwinter uses D&Ds basics mechanics even if it have modified those more.
But frankly don't I like D&Ds current edition much even if it is better than the 4th at least. D&D have lost a lot of players to Pathfinder and there are fewer of us roleplayers around now than 10 years ago anymore so the potential is less now, particularly if you set it in Eberron. That setting failed pretty badly.
Dragonlance seems to going for a comeback though and Dragonlance online would be a rather interesting setting for a MMO, maybe we will see that happening (from Turbine or someone else).
DDO did earn a lot of money for Turbine, but a lot of that money was due to the fact it was the first western AAA game who moved over to the F2P market so making a similar sequel would most likely bring in the development and running cost but Turbine would earn more to make a new game set in the Middle earth or Asherons call 3 instead. LOTRO were never a new Wow but it did rather well while Asherons call still have many fans and a game like that would be a welcome addition to current MMOs (even if AC2 failed).
DDO have already been made, updating the engine is surely possible even if I think that Turbine could use the resources for that better. A sequel just isn't very likely. DDO is not a bad game, played it for a while myself but originally did Guildwars totally own it so even if Turbine would make a new D&D game I think it instead would be based in Forgotten realms, Dragonlance or possibly Ravenloft (the latest becausesteampunk horror have become rather popular the last few years and CCP who owns the IP could use the money for selling it).
WB owns Turbine and they own DC, so something weird happened with their MOBA. Clearly, it could have made some money had they not decided to shut it down only months after it's launch. I think they were wanting it to be super popular and become an esport, but simply making a profit would have been fine too.
However, the point I'm making is that Warner Bros. made the decision to close that MOBA. It wasn't a failure (though it wasn't a huge success either).
It does show that whoever is making greenlight decisions is focusing on money though. They were trying to get LoL money by taking advantage of one of their in-house licenses, but they did a weird open beta really early so that many gamers only ever saw it when it was a warty mess and this also meant that press had seen it and grown disinterested with it a good year before it launched too. So it had a terrible launch with no marketing (that I saw), and, worse, very little of the much more important free press coverage that a game like this needs. The point being that a team being led by someone who wants to chase after LoL money isn't likely to want to do a DDO sequel even though DDO was and is a profitable success. They aren't interested in making steady income with a quality title, but are trying to shoot the moon with F2P whale money.
Is not a sequel to DDO, they uses different settings even if they are both based on D&D. But to be honest is almost all fantasy MMOs more or less based on D&D anyways.
Now, if Cryptic would have used the Eberron setting you might call it a kind of sequel but if Neverwinter is a sequal to anything it is more a sequel to Biowares Neverwinter nights even if that is pretty far fetched as well.
Turbines rumored money woes surely would prohibit investing in a D&D IP a problem. Also, the game market is saturated with cheap F2P games, which makes bean counters nervous about investing in mmo's.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Yeah I doubt Turbine is in trouble. Well...hey always seem to be in trouble, from what I recall they have had their share of security breeches and over billing issues. As well as silencing angry people on their forums (which I guess is their prerogative but still a low move). And, generally sweeping any mismanagement under the rug...But, what I mean is they are not terminally ill.
Time-Warner (WB/Warner Bros./Warner Brothers/Warner Brothers Studios is a production company owned by Time-Warner inc.) owns them. And, it is the same kind of relationship I imagine, as is that of Microsoft and Xbox (their Xbox division has operated at a loss since it's first year. But, Gate's will keep throwing his pocket change at it. Because, Microsoft only got into the console game when Sony said at E3 "the console will one day replace the PC.".... Microsoft basically collectively went "Awww Hell Naw! No they didn't!" And, decided to show us all exactly why that could be true by example.
Except where it regards Time-Warner and Turbine...I think Time-Warner genuinely want s to rake it in. And Turbine Genuinely wants to make games for the love of games. And, neither of them are good at doing it. They get in each others way. Time-Warners job is to sit on IP's like the worlds largest copyright troll. And, flick one out from under their left cheek when they want something.
I think there is a failing for them to understand what makes their IP's valuable. What was lord of the rings for instance? It was a road trip...through all the books. One big road trip with a lot of discovery and very much about the party experience. But, when I played lotro...no wizard came knocking on my door. No uninvited guests spilled in and whisked me away on trek I was not really prepared to take. There was no real adversity or feeling of impeding doom throughout. I felt it was just another MMORPG and this time they skinned it to look like middle earth (and didn't do the best job of that either).
Lots of good stuff in your post that I copied just because I think they are good points, but there is one off-topic nitpick I'd like to make:
To be fair, the Xbox Division has shown a profit more often than it hasn't. When people say that it has always been in debt, they aren't giving the full picture. First, they are doing a total for the Xbox & Devices division since it's inception, so even though the group has learned from mistakes and makes a profit in nearly every quarter and has for several years, they have not yet "broken even" with mistakes made by people over a decade ago, AND it is also the "devices" division that is responsible for all the device failures. The Xbox is being asked not only to be profitable, but to be profitable enough that it's division can eat all the losses from every Zune and other failed device the devices division wastes money on.
Good points actually. I was a little too hard on Xbox. But, why did you have to go and remind me that Zune was a thing -_-
1. I think tabletop players have gone to roll20 and Fantasy Grounds more than Pathfinder. Plus, if you look at those games, the majority are playing 5e D&D, with 3.5 D&D and Pathfinder having about the same, much smaller, followings. The target market for a DDO sequel would include those people, of course, as well as current DDO customers and other MMO players who moved on from DDO.
2. Again, Turbine's issues are that Warner Bros. owns and operates them. They aren't making bad games; they are just being asked to make games that are competing with the most talented and/or established developers in a popular genre (MOBAs). If they were asked to make an MMO that made as much money as WoW, they'd probably not be able to do that either. What appears to be happening IMO is bad management from Warner Bros. They bought a B+ game studio that makes solid, profitable games, and they're wanted a AAA money-printing MOBA. . . and had they marketed it with any intelligence, they might have actually had it, or at least something very profitable instead of just marginally profitable. I suggest trying out Infinite Crisis before it shuts down - it's a fun MOBA.
3. On your last point, that interest-holders are wary of MMOs due to F2P games saturating the market, I agree. Though I think the problem is worse than that too. I think the people making the greenlight decisions don't understand what makes games popular or what makes one game sell more than another. They aren't gamers, so their understanding of the genre is shallow. . . maybe they play Call of Duty or some EA sports titles and maybe they've even tried a smattering of games to try to learn about them, but they aren't hobbyists, so they really have no idea what makes a game fun or appealling to customers. It's a problem that the whole game industry faces, really. . . interest-holders who don't know what they're doing. At the most profitable publisher (Activision-Blizzard & EA)- this isn't the case. They sometimes don't execute and sometimes this is because of bad corporate integration strategies (like EA's use of Origin and weirdly buying DLC inside apps only so that it is effectively never on sale, for example), but they are good about green-lighting generally. Bethesda nips at their heals, Take Two has lost it's ass not knowing the game market and only survives off GTA, and Squenix is all over the map with great decisions and terrible ones, so they're unpredictable.
Agreed, nether D&D or Eberron holds the same magic as it used to. But there are several D&D worlds that could support one (or in FRs case several) MMOs.
Forgotten realms is still the most popular fantasy world (besides Game of thrones), it could easily support another MMO if you set it around the sea of falling stars instead of around Neverwinter. Heck, I could see a MMO mainly focused on city adventuring in Westgate, that would be fun and rather different from most MMOs.
Besides that, you have Dragonlance, Ravenloft and Planescape. Either of them could make an awesome MMO.
Eberron, Spelljammer, Dark sun and Greyhawk are just too generic and/or don'thave enough fans to truly support a MMO. Turbine got a lot of complaints for choosing the world they did, TSR/WotC pushed for it since they at the time wanted to hype their new world but it just wasn't good enough compared to some earlier ones. Using any of these worlds wouldn't be worth the license, you could just make one yourself instead.
If I got my wish we would get a FR game set around the sea of fallen stars (and pretty early in the timeline, preferable the classic AD&D FR) with Pathfinders mechanics (that is what we play pen and paper) but I guess that would be impossible for legal reasons, doubt either Paizo or WotC would agree to such a thing.
Forgotten realms have sadly gone downwards for a long time, the setting got totally destroyed when they converted it to 4th edition.
@Loke666 - 5e has a lot of the fixes from PF and could do an FR setting.
I love DDO but I play it mostly as a single player game with an auction house. I do most quests solo and build my character around that. I also alt a lot and don´t have any lvl 20 or higher character.
In my personal opinion, the game would be better without being D&D, which limits a lot and makes things get stupid. For instance, for years they had a big issue with a d20 based AC system which made all kinda funky issues with your armor class when it got very high. The other issue is that D&D has never been about repeatable grind content like raids and endgame. And so you have a class/level system that really doesn´t work well at endgame in an MMORPG type game.
Overall it is a great game, and for the last 5 years I played it as my non-WOW MMORPG. But now that WOW has gotten so bad, I think DDO is prbably more fun to play casually.
I absolutely love the idea of single-player quests in dungeons like DDO, with ambushes and traps and multiple ways to accomplish the dungeon.
Please do not mention the monstrosity that is Neverwinter Online when comparing to DDO.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.