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[General Article] Pathfinder Online: The Review Continues with Fresh Eyes

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

You may be wondering where my (Bill Murphy’s) review is for Pathfinder Online. As I mentioned a while ago in a comment, I just can’t bring myself to play the game anymore, and I don’t feel I’ve given it enough time to really put a score on it. So, like a boss, I’m torturing our own Steven Messner with the task of going in with fresh eyes to see how he feels about the game. Read on for his own first impressions and more of my reasoning behind switching writers.

Read more of Steven Messner's Pathfinder Online: The Review Continues with Fresh Eyes.

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Comments

  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,455
    Not hearing many good things about the game.  Maybe it has changed. 
  • MissAdventureMissAdventure Member UncommonPosts: 83
    I think there is a lot of potential here, but unyielding ego seems to be stymying current success of the project.
  • cylon8cylon8 Member UncommonPosts: 362

    im sorry it was a flawed concept from the start this type of game no longer interests gamers even the ones that claim it does they play for a month than leave cause its too haed or timne consuming

     

    so say we all

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,618
    This review is pretty spot on IMO.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • SoulriftSoulrift Member UncommonPosts: 34
    You know a game is horribad when it's so bad a reviewer can't even bring himself to play it to review it.
  • CazrielCazriel Member RarePosts: 419

    I am always skeptical of a game that you must play for hours and hours before it becomes interesting enough to play.  If a developer isn't able to make an engaging environment, it doesn't matter what the combat  or character progression is like.  You still have to game in that environment (and here I mean the entire experience of being in the game, not just the plants and flowers).   It sounds like they have spent a terrific amount of development time on the what many gamers say are the systems they care most about:  combat and progression.   But ignored how to entice gamers deeper into their game. 

  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    Wildstar. That's all I've got to say. Everytime I hear the nonsense that mmo gamers out there want harder content or more raids or anything else that modern mmo gamers actually DON'T want in the future this will be my response. Wildstar. Because nothing says "you're full of crap" like not being able to support the one game in modern history that was made just for your community. Wildstar.
  • lugallugal Member UncommonPosts: 671
    Not trying to defend the game, but all I see is comments here complaining that the game has elements that only appeal to a niche group. I don't see that as a problem. Nor do I see a game with less than 100k players as a failure. Far to many elitist compare games to WoW and to WoW's numbers. If the game is making money, and people actually log in, that is a success.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    no one who ever created a multibillion dollar company ever said "as long as a few people are buying my products and services I'll call it a success" that nonsense never paid the rent or repaid investors in the entire history of commerce.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829

    Good call on Bill's part to delegate the task to one of his minions! image

    (Now to read the actual article!)

    Edit: Now that I've read it, it sounds a lot like I've read on the boards here (and pretty much what I expected to find).

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by NightHaveN
    But at least a themepark mostly is not about the journey, but the never ending "End Game". Bit when a sandbox that is build around the world and journey is that uninspiring, then we have a problem.

    Not that true anymore nowadays. We have several themeparks that are highly focused on the journey, and less on the endgame. TSW and SWTOR immediately spring to mind as the ones that are most focused on it, but there are at least a few more where they try to at least make the journey as pleasant as possible.

    Although I agree with you when it comes to sandboxes. If the world (sandbox) you're going to be playing in is dull, then it's not going to be a very enjoyable experience.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • FacelessSaviorFacelessSavior Member UncommonPosts: 188
    Love everyone bagging on the concepts and claiming to know what gamers want. The game is poorly designed. Has nothing to do with difficulty or concept. It's a badly pieced together game. I really wish a well designed open world pvp game of this style would come out. With graphics/animations and UI from this century. And tab-targetting just needs to die already.
  • SidQFTSidQFT Member UncommonPosts: 96
    I missed my free test slot....  And I also resent the $15 monthly fee to test a game.  I won't be playing this until its finished, if that ever happens.
  • FalcomithFalcomith Member UncommonPosts: 831
    You take a game that rules are turn based and based on modules, then strip that away and make it into a sandbox mmo and call it  Pathfinder??? Whats wrong with that. It dont work. Should have called it something else.  And early testers pay a sub? Speechless....I see this vaporizing.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,652

    Guess I'm torn by this...

     

    On one hand, after all this time Bill really should have manned up and finished the review.  He may like Ryan personally but  come on, this has been drawn out for months now.  

     

    On the other hand, what has been written so far has been pretty hysterical.. and at least this way it can continue for a few more weeks.

     

    This is honestly one of those games that just takes 30 minutes to have that inner voice just start shouting "WTF!!!!"

     

     

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    On one hand, after all this time Bill really should have manned up and finished the review.  He may like Ryan personally but  come on, this has been drawn out for months now.  

     

    "I can hardly bring myself to play this" and having to hand it off to someone else without a personal connection to the CEO speaks just as loud as a review would have IMO. And it sends the same message the review would've most likely sent.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Xav_MMOXav_MMO Member UncommonPosts: 49

    Let's see. I've subscribed or Beta'd nearly ever MMO that's come out in the Western market since Meridian 59. I've been playing EQ since the servers went live in '99. I played Eve in the early days and then came back again later and played much longer. Of course there are a myriad of other games - just hitting some that seem most relevant.

     

    The point is that I have a LOT of experience with MMOs, RPGs, sandbox games, refined and unrefined games, etc. I play the PnP game. I backed Pathfinder Online on Kickstarter. So yeah, I fired it right up when the invitations first started going out. Then put it aside for several months to wait for more. Then tried it again recently.

     

    And like Mr. B. Murphy, "I just can’t bring myself to play the game"

     

    Even with time left in my trial period, it has been deleted.

     

    Edit: Para breaks don't show as previewed.
  • SlukjanSlukjan Member UncommonPosts: 265
    this sucks. i had such high hopes for this game. i've been looking fowrard to it for a long time.  Now i feel like it is a piece of shit not worth playing. i hope, by some miracle, this game finds a way to turn things around.
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,062
    this game is the next Archeage!  

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
  • TheRabidsmurfTheRabidsmurf Member UncommonPosts: 146
    I yearn for a truely wondrous D&D game, failing that one that is playable...pathfinder is not that game. They got their money and subs with screenshots i have no idea,aside from post-render, where they are. Trial account tried, hope dashed. Like its being made by amatuer devs on the side from their real jobs...or passions.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,652

    In fact, despite already charging players a hefty subscription fee of $15 USD a month to play—not to mention the $1 million that was received via a successful Kickstarter campaign, Pathfinder Online feels like a husk of a game with barely anything worthy of the subscription fee.

     

    Don't forget that they also have a cash shop where you can buy $200 items... and until they finally listened to my advice a few weeks ago they also charged a box fee on top of all that!

     

    Quite frankly, I resent the way Goblinworks is handling their "early enrollment" period of the game. Their beginner's guide would have you believe that, by participating in this stage and giving Goblinworks money to develop the game, that you are somehow receiving the benefit of peeking behind the curtains to experience the wondrous sight of watching an MMORPG be built from the ground up. But nothing have I seen so far has given me any such reaction. 

     

    You are far from alone.  I haven't seen anything different than you would find in any alpha/beta feedback forum... as a matter of fact, due to the tiny population it's actually much less.  Just take a look at the "Crowdforging" forum on their site...

     

    BTW if those are screenshots of your character, expect to have very special attention from the diehard fans and even the staff as they try to make your experience as pleasurable as possible.  It's like a food critic sitting at the table and telling the staff he's reviewing their menu.

     

    Best of luck in your endeavour.  Hopefully you will be able to complete your epic task of  forcing yourself to login for the next few weeks.  I have never seen a game get scored in the "Lower half of the out of ten scale" you guys use so if you continue where Bill left off this could be groundbreaking.  Actually scoring a game based on how it IS and not how it could potentially, someday be would be refreshing... and good for the genre. 

     

     

     

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    Might be interesting to compare the ongoing review(s) with this piece of PFO budget info coming from Ryan:
    Originally posted by JamesGoblin

       I am intrigued by another "detail". According to his own words, he already spent more than 4 000 000 $ on the game, and will invest 2-3 millions more, info from recent Pathfinder AMA here.

     But the (quite dated and unappealing, even generic in some cases) results I can see simply don`t fit with these huge numbers. For a sandbox comparison, that`s much more than Crowfall`s current total budget (they have around 4m ATM, and projected total pre-launch budget should be around 6m, in Walton`s words) and on par with Camelot Unchained`s total budget so far.

      PS I found the exact quote from that AMA: " We've spent more than $4 million, and we'll likely spend $2 - $3 million more before we get to Open Enrollment " Note the "before the open enrollment" part.

     

    What I am wondering about is:

     

    1) Did he really spend all that money on the game?

    2) If so, then what exactly did he spend the money on? and

    3) Where did all these millions come from?

    And here is the confirmation that followed immediatelly:

    Originally posted by rsdancey

    1: Yes, that's roughly our budget.

    2: 80% of our expense goes to the salaries of the people who make the game. The other 20% goes to things like licensing tools, rent, legal fees, etc. We also had substantial costs associated with fulfilling the kickstarter rewards.

    3: About 1/3rd of the capital spent so far came from Kickstarter. The other 2/3rds represent investment into the company.

    Making an MMO is expensive. That we have succeeded so far at the budget we have spent is a tremendous victory.

    Typically in high-tech companies it is a safe assumption that every "developer" has a total overhead of salary, benefits, workstation, software, tax, rent, etc. of ~$100k/year. We currently have a team of about 20 people. The only non-developer in the company is me. :)

    To put that in comparison, CCP spent over $75 million on World of Darkness, and failed to get it to market. It's widely reported that the cost of Star Wars: The Old Republic was more than $200 million. Most AAA Theme Park MMOs released in the past 5 years have had budgets in excess of $100 million.

    We have been in full production since January of 2013. Prior to that we spent about a year in partial production getting the company formed, recruiting our leads, and making the Technology Demo. So we have had about 2 years of nearly full burn rate to get to this point.

    We have not, as of yet, invested any substantial money on marketing the game. We've been working on improving it steadily and relying on grassroots support as we iterate towards a product that we can do a more widespread marketing campaign for. We're getting there.

    Making videogames is a tough, expensive business. Making an MMO is the toughest, most expensive part of that business. I'm incredibly proud of the team and the work they've achieved so far.

      My point remains the same - what we saw so far doesn`t look even remotely close to "more than $4m spent so far" (huge budget for an indie MMO) and the answer didn`t really convince me.

     

      PS here is my original post, and answer is the very next one in the thread.

     W...aaagh?
  • brihtwulfbrihtwulf Member UncommonPosts: 975
    For the money spent on development (or at least the money received), this game looks terrible and the fact that they're charging a full-cost monthly fee is rather insulting.  That is the fee that stars of the genre like EVE Online and WoW charge.  And other companies that have tried to charge that, even AAA productions, have failed and needed to change their business model.  LotRO, ESO, Wildstar...  All these games started out subscription and had to change.  And Pathfinder isn't one millionth the quality or completeness.
  • MoonKnighttMoonKnightt Member UncommonPosts: 148

    This feels like the type of game that has very vocal fans. Who hype it up and claim it is everything they wanted in a game. Then one or two months later they quit playing and you never hear from them again.

    I guess you could call it Wildstar syndrome.

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,572
    Bill got further than I did.  I played for about 30 mins until I couldn't stand it anymore, logged out and uninstalled.  It's pretty telling when a professional reviewer can't even force themselves to play because the game is absolute rubbish.  They are in deep, deep trouble.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

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