[General Article] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: Heavensward Review in Progress Part 3

SBFord · July 2015

Over the last two weeks we have touched on the build up to Heavensward and some of the new systems in the game. This week I want to talk about the reason we have headed north to begin with, the remaining two classes; Machinist and Astrologian, as well as the Mac brewhaha. Next week I’ll do the official review and put a bow on it.

Read more of Rob Lashley's Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward RIP #3.

Ganryu808 · July 2015

It's kind of funny that the original version if XIV was more of an action based combat system. When the changes were made in preparation for a realm reborn the combat took on a more traditional tab target system. I like the combat in the current version of the game, the combos are nice and I rarely have to look at my action bar (unlike other mmos). Combat at endgame seems fine to me, however for new players it does seem slow and lack variety. I can see Yoshi-P working on the low level speed/flow of combat down the road as to not turn away any potential new players.

danwest58 · July 2015

"Last week there were a handful of readers that were concerned about my comments with regards to the combat system in Final Fantasy. I’m not advocating that Square Enix change the way the game plays. At this point it is what it is. My point was for players that are tired of tab target hotbar based combat games. If you are one of those players and you are tired with that type of gameplay there isn’t really anything new in FFXIV for you. It would more or less be the same themepark combat that you are used to just in a prettier skin with an interesting story."

This is a very nice comment at the end telling people like it is. Combat will not change to Action combat just because people want it that post on the forums. The combat is what it is and people enjoy it.

danwest58 · July 2015

Originally posted by Ganryu808
It's kind of funny that the original version if XIV was more of an action based combat system. When the changes were made in preparation for a realm reborn the combat took on a more traditional tab target system. I like the combat in the current version of the game, the combos are nice and I rarely have to look at my action bar (unlike other mmos). Combat at endgame seems fine to me, however for new players it does seem slow and lack variety. I can see Yoshi-P working on the low level speed/flow of combat down the road as to not turn away any potential new players.

I too can see the GCD being worked on a little. I dont think they plan on making the combat spammy like WOW is now. I think it will be .5 second off the GCD.

lobotaru · July 2015

My opinion of the game has changed a bit as I've reached end game. Without a doubt, the narrative they have going is the strongest part of the game, and everything is fine tuned as best as possible to support it. I think that is a definite win for FFXIV:Heavensward because it clearly out does what FFXIV:ARR tried to accomplish pre-expansion.

Once the story is consumed, though, the game loses a bit of its luster. It deserves merits for sticking to a focus on story telling, because that is a weakness of many MMORPGs out there. They also put a genuine effort into making the individual jobs more interesting so they hold player interest longer. By giving them more abilities to master, and making them more interesting as a result, they've also made it more difficult to play multiple jobs. A lot of the minor changes ended up being that way, where they have drawbacks as much as benefits.

Unfortunately, its impossible for me to give FFXIV:Heavensward a free pass when almost all the game's problems are in some way linked to the use of the tank, healer, and damage dealer division of roles. It's the same repeat story from the last ten years with all the same issues. No one should be surprised by the challenges Heavensward faces moving forward. In an era where lobby gaming has been mainstream for years, queue times of over five minutes during high time isn't a good sign.

Dungeon finder was a stop gap measure to help alleviate the amount of time it took to get into dungeons back in world of warcraft, but it also transformed the game in some unexpected ways. Queue times are a part of lobby gaming, and Duty finder is a lobby gaming tool with a different name. As a damage dealer, the end game queue times I've faced have ranged from everywhere between twelve to nearly forty minutes on Fractal Continuum. Massive differences in queue times lead to massive differences in progression. What is new content to a damage dealer is already old to the tank or healer running it.

nbtscan · July 2015

Originally posted by Ganryu808
It's kind of funny that the original version if XIV was more of an action based combat system.

What? Combat in pre-ARR was still tab target and played at a snail's pace compared to ARR and beyond. All your skills were on a cooldown of some sort and once you used all your skills you were standing there with your thumb up your ass autoattacking waiting for them to refresh.

I hate to be critical of this review, but I don't think the author plays this game outside of making a review for it. Anyone with intimate knowledge the game knows that while yes, Machinist can be a mobile damage dealer, most of its damage is done with Gauss Barrel active, which gives all of their abilities a charge time which in turn limits their mobility. There was also an awful comparison drawn between playing an AST and a THM. While AST does have some damage capabilities, it's a healer through and through, so I don't know how you'd compare that to a strictly damage dealer class like THM. You would have been better off comparing it to WHM or SCH who are both healers with some damage capacity.

Viper482 · July 2015

If the community wasn't full of elitist pricks the game wouldn't be too bad.

danwest58 · July 2015

Originally posted by Viper482
If the community wasn't full of elitist pricks the game wouldn't be too bad.

Viper,

Do you have a group of people to run with by chance? If not and your able to play ET some nights you could hand with us. As for the game being full of Elitist pricks this game is not. Is there ass holes, hell yea however this is one of the better communities I been a part of. WOW is Full of problem people more than FFXIV. When I did several of the Trials that I had to for 2.1 - 2.55 and these were full DF pugs. I ended up having to explain the fights because besides my wife and I no one watched the videos. We wiped a few times and then finally downed the bosses. No drama and people listened. Now that was before the Xpac before all the WOW players came back and complained the content is too hard why cant the content be tank and spank.....

syriinx · July 2015

Originally posted by lobotaru

Unfortunately, its impossible for me to give FFXIV:Heavensward a free pass when almost all the game's problems are in some way linked to the use of the tank, healer, and damage dealer division of roles.

Except many (if not most) find that combat without this setup tends to lack any sort of meaningful group interplay. GW2 does okay, because its meant to be a casual game. FFXIV is a more 'hardcore' game in many aspects, and this sort of combat best fits that style...slower (but certainly not as slow as many would say) trinity based combat. Its a large reason behind the game's success.

So yes, sometimes the dps has to deal with longer queues. But there is enough to do while queued that for many its not a big deal.

To move away from the trinity system would turn FFXIV from the biggest success of the last 10 years into a game destined to go f2p due to lack of players.

lobotaru · July 2015

Originally posted by syriinx
Originally posted by lobotaru

Unfortunately, its impossible for me to give FFXIV:Heavensward a free pass when almost all the game's problems are in some way linked to the use of the tank, healer, and damage dealer division of roles.

Except many (if not most) find that combat without this setup tends to lack any sort of meaningful group interplay. GW2 does okay, because its meant to be a casual game. FFXIV is a more 'hardcore' game in many aspects, and this sort of combat best fits that style...slower (but certainly not as slow as many would say) trinity based combat. Its a large reason behind the game's success.

So yes, sometimes the dps has to deal with longer queues. But there is enough to do while queued that for many its not a big deal.

To move away from the trinity system would turn FFXIV from the biggest success of the last 10 years into a game destined to go f2p due to lack of players.

Guild Wars 2 tried to remove the roles entirely. What I'd like to see is for some developer to change up how party responsibilities are handled, and perhaps rely more on the narrative of the classes themselves to tell the player what they are capable of then to slap a meta-game role on top of it. Final Fantasy XIV:ARR and Heavensward is what it is, and simply isn't going to change.

To be frank, I was taken aback mostly by the transition from a more story-driven experience to the end game gear grind. The change is always a jarring one because its a transition from an RPG to something entirely different.

Elandrial · July 2015

i find that post very interesting,BUT very useless. HOW do you change the roles? the tanks job IS to hold aggro,the healers job IS to heal,and the dps is to do damamge,very simple.the only way would be to have hybrids,that can dual purpose like dps/heal.problem with that is the constant healing needed in a lot of cases.ergo no dps.in the end hybrids usually come with shortcomings.so i am not sure if you have a solution.by the way you can undersize a dungeon and run it anyway you want,or the bismark ext you have to have a set party again any way you want to run it,.

MrSnuffles · July 2015

The problem is not the trinity, it's the lack of depth. Learning your rotation just like you learn every boss encounter that is scripted down to the second is just boring and repetitive. There is no challenge, no surprise or amazing recoveries because a mistake means wipe. If one cog in the machine fucks up, wipe. Most of the time you are relieved that the shit is finally over, not happy to beat the boss as it should be.

Token Fantasy 14 is a boring lobby game that has nothing new to offer.

MrSnuffles · July 2015

Originally posted by drivendawn
Originally posted by MrSnuffles
The problem is not the trinity, it's the lack of depth. Learning your rotation just like you learn every boss encounter that is scripted down to the second is just boring and repetitive. There is no challenge, no surprise or amazing recoveries because a mistake means wipe. If one cog in the machine fucks up, wipe. Most of the time you are relieved that the shit is finally over, not happy to beat the boss as it should be.

Token Fantasy 14 is a boring lobby game that has nothing new to offer.

This statement sounds silly because I have seen it happen a lot. I have seen many turn arounds in battles on this game. Also from the underlined I see there is challenge in the game you just don't like how it is done. Thats fine if you don't like it but it's still there.

If memorizing a rotation and memorizing a fight that is 100% the same every time down to the position you need to stand is a challenge then i bet you also find this challenging:

Oh wait, my bad, this is random every time, it's better than FFXIV boss fights!

MrFryin · July 2015

Originally posted by MrSnuffles
The problem is not the trinity, it's the lack of depth. Learning your rotation just like you learn every boss encounter that is scripted down to the second is just boring and repetitive. There is no challenge, no surprise or amazing recoveries because a mistake means wipe. If one cog in the machine fucks up, wipe. Most of the time you are relieved that the shit is finally over, not happy to beat the boss as it should be.Token Fantasy 14 is a boring lobby game that has nothing new to offer.

Lol OK dude. You go back to your WoW with your DBM add-on that tells you everything you need to do and leave Final Fantasy to the pro's. Warlords of draenor is more like Borelords of suck

syriinx · July 2015

Originally posted by Elandrial
i find that post very interesting,BUT very useless. HOW do you change the roles? the tanks job IS to hold aggro,the healers job IS to heal,and the dps is to do damamge,very simple.the only way would be to have hybrids,that can dual purpose like dps/heal.problem with that is the constant healing needed in a lot of cases.ergo no dps.in the end hybrids usually come with shortcomings.so i am not sure if you have a solution.by the way you can undersize a dungeon and run it anyway you want,or the bismark ext you have to have a set party again any way you want to run it,.

While Tanks always have to tank and healers always have to heal, one of the reasons why EQ1 was so great is that there were other roles. Pulling, debuffing, crowd control...Even with tanking, there were some styles of play that didn't need a tank. And the various classes in EQ had different things to offer. So you could get creative with group builds and methods to handle multiple mobs and midfight adds.

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