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I'll be the one to ask: Why do people act like the "old system" was better?
Lamethrower
Member Posts: 82
I don't mean that the new system is any good--I have no idea. I mean the insinuation that at any time the game was any good.
I was one of the people who was there at launch. If you wanted to be technical, I had my copy of SWG 2 days before it went live--the instruction manual had me hyped...all 10 times I read it in Christmas-like anticipation. Finally a game where I didn't have to engage in combat to be successful (I'm a merchant/vendor/trader type of gamer).
The game goes gold...the lag was so bad you could hardly move those first couple days. Huge success. Everybody and their dog owned SWG and was trying to get in. My lag was better than most though, and I happily plugged away.
True to my merchant gamer roots, I created a droid engineer--it's what I wanted to do, it seemed really neat. I quickly made friends with someone who could build me mining tools, got as many of those as I could and planted them down in a huge field. I made other friends who weren't going to use their 10 slots, and offered them a tribute in exchange for leasing their mining slots to me, and got THEM mining for me...I owned entire fields of resource extractors, fauna things, etc. as far as the eye could see. At one point, I had over 80 production machines out in the fields. It was great. They didn't even require fuel at the time! Though I have to admit I found the phallic looking nature of one of the mining collectors (looked like a penis constantly pistoning into...well, you can figure this out), a rather disturbing sight as they appeared on the horizon when I went to check on them...
Then a short time later, I went out on one of my frequent collection runs, and the machines were all stopped. The huge fields of resources I had found had mysteriously vanished. Turns out that minerals can just up and move in the world of SWG in the blink of an eye. The huge field didn't gradually get worse in resources, it just disappeared. Took a long time to tear down all the machines, find more fields, and put them back up, but OK. It really ticked me off, seemed completely unreal and a total waste, but I could deal with it.
And then I started grinding out droids...and grinding out droids...and grinding out droids. Happier than a pig in slop, I was....right up until I tried to start selling them. Turned out the droids were useless. Half of them didn't work (ie battery droid and the one that looked like a platform with a bunch of arms on it), the ones that did were too frail to be of use, the R2 units (the unit most people wanted) were so far up the chart I couldn't make them. The protocol droid served no purpose. Turned out, there was but ONE droid that was worthwhile, that people wanted, that people would pay for. Some form of combat droid (I don't remember its name). DE's were a completely unfinished class--they had no worth except that one droid. I trekked on, however, quickly become the top rated, most respected, most reputable, and most sought after DE on my server (I wanna say it was Praxus, but don't completely recall the name...pretty sure it had an X in it). I was patient. SOE would fix the class, and I'd be rolling in dough. My R2 units sold well for a while until everyone realized they were useless too.
Meanwhile, everybody and their dog has become a Pokemon collector (beast tamer). SOE's response to the DE issue? To nerf the one droid worth anything to uselessness. It ceased to have a good attack, and was more frail than a piece of blown glass. That was their primary objective--not to fix the class, but to make its one useful trait useless. Suddenly nobody wanted to buy a droid for anything other than aesthetics--and why should they? They were all useless. The sad thing is, DE's weren't the only class that got "odd" treatment.
Commandos got it, but they all screamed loud enough to where they became gods all of a sudden. The Pokemon trainers actually got BUFFED in spite of already being the most powerful. Then the class became REALLY worthless...who wants a frail droid when you can just go get yourself a pet rancor? People yelled and screamed and moaned and begged on the forums--SOE ignored us all. They instead took the step to call anything in which anything negative was said about the game ("My class is broken") as a flame against SOE and to delete the posts or ban the poster from the forums.
I played a doctor for a couple weeks...got pretty proficient at it. Right around the time my free 30 days was up, I got smart. I saw how bad the game was, how it was getting worse and not better...and I actually managed to not only sell the account on Ebay, but to turn a little profit on it. I almost felt bad taking the guy's money.
This is a long story, but the point is: Why wax nostalgic about this game or say it's been ruined? It's ALWAYS been broken. It's ALWAYS been ruined. It's ALWAYS been a steaming pile of dog crap. SOE completely trashed it from minute one. They released it in an early beta stage of development, and made it worse.
So why are people even around to complain about it now? To say it's worse now than it was then is like saying it was great to only have that class 4 brain tumor back in the day as opposed to the late stages of AIDS now.
Comments
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Don't click here...no2
You are right about DE, it was majorly broken in the beginning. Mineral spawns shifted so that everyone would have the op to get new spawns and such, this stopped people like yourself to monopolize on one particular mineral. I have one question for the OP. Have you tried the new stytem? It is the biggest piece of shit ive ever seen
Didn't really read your rant, but to answer your question: It's subjective.
Yes, some people actually do like complexity, freedom of choice and (forced?) social interaction, others like kill/get treasure/repeat. What you perceive as better might be worse for the next person, it's as easy as that.
The old system was far from perfect and in some places, such as DE, it was outright broken. Still, I'd prefer that over the NGE any day of the week. It's like asking whether I want to suffer from the common cold or the plague. Logically, I'll pick the common cold since that is a lot less likely to kill me
Also, consider this. If they had spent all the time and effort that went into redesigning the game twice just on fixing the old system by using player input and good judgement, where do you think we would be today? The old system wasn't broken beyond repair, it just had some serious flaws that needed to be worked out.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
SWG v0.1 did have:
SWG v0.2 have:
If I would have been big decision maker in SOE/LA and I wouldn't need to listen other developers or players opionions - I would have done following:
Oh crap, ... I did write again message to SWG forums - I need to stop this.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
We all know that SWG launched in a fairly poor state. After they fixed quite a few professions like DE things did get better. What made it great was its versatility. If I wanted to be a TKM/Ranger I could be. If I got bored I could change to Dancer/Rifleman.
The game was decent in the "old system" the problem was that SOE never got into fixing bugs and revamping professions like they should have. They spent too much time working on Jedi. How many revamps did we see?
You just cant launch a game like SWG and then yank half your team. It needs alot of work especially considering that the game was launched in beta state.
When I cancelled on my 2 toons I had 2 datapads full of droids. Before the CU/NGE they had alot of purpose. Adding in droid modules was nice. I had a really nice harvesting droid and a decent self healing tanking droid. Also had a decent med droid for when I buffed people and also a droid for making clothing as a tailor for any customers who would happen to show up at the cantina while I danced. Droids finally got a purpose in the "Droid Invasion" publish.
It had potential. Sadly it never got there.
Thats not realy relevant to the OP.
If you had read it you would know he pointed out that SWG was broken/imbalanced and managed poorly. Nothing about "whats better". And theres nothing subjective about DE being worthless.
Respond to the message, not the title.
*edit - bad spelling
The classic engine was the best format. It was the best combat system, and social interaction system.
BUT... it had some bugs. Some classes needed fixing. Content was completely absent.
Instead of actually FIXING the bugs/issues.. they threw the system out TWICE. Instead of adding content, they YEARS LATER added expansions.
Space should have been in earlier. Speeders should have been in earlier.
But the classic game was the best foundation they ever had. They just had ignored it, then built one f-ed up thing on top of it.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
The old system was alot better then the current NGE system and the CU system. Fair enough it had its faults everyone knows this but from a pure technical point of view the variety, freedom, diversity in character creation, crafting system and combat it was unique and catered for EVERYONE not just combat orientated players. It enable some of the best interaction between players, it provided an economy driven by players and everyone had their place in it, from the people who looted skill tapes, to pearls, to organic resources, to the miners who gathered inorganic resources for the crafters who made end products using those resources.
However the developers failed to see some problems which may arise as players got to know the system and also failed to fix bugs and deliver new content. Major problems which were overlooked where that eventually resources would spawn enabling players to make super doc buffs and armor, the ability to stack defences from one profession and add them from another. Major lag, poor code optimisation, poor customer service, lack of communication, lieing to their player base, listening to the nerf callers to often etc. Again the other problems such as the relatively poor professions such as smuggler, D.E. and squad leader etc the lack of new content etc.
These problems could easily have been fixed it doesn't take a MMO veteran to see this any person with a little common sense could see how the old system could have been fixed if instead of devoting most of the resources on lame expansions when the core game should have been their, as in SOE and LA's main concern.
Its a simple fact the old system was the most popular and had the most subscribers if SOE release any figures this will be a simple FACT for anyone to see however they won't as it will show exactly how unpopular the game is and cause even more of a headache for the SOE top brass.
i played the game for 2.5 years, I pvp'd, did most of the PVE stuff available and got my jedi to guardian before they made it easier, was one of the best armorsmiths on my server. What got on my nerves and alot of other peoples was how SOE had no idea what to do with the game they spent to much time on expansions and pushing out paid content when they should have listened to US and fixed the bugs and used community ideas of which some were excellant.
I am a firm believer that for a MMORPG to be great you need to cater for everyone, that means combat (PVE, PVP being balanced to the best it can be), good community interaction, complex crafting, player driven economies, bug free, new content added often, good customer service and sadly the NGE does none of these and so is a failure in my eyes and will remain to be, due to the fact that SOE has not got the capabilities to do any of the above.
I don't blame the devs although some which can be named are very arrogant and have god complexes, the blame lies on Smedly who i believe has no interest in online games and is a car sales man in the wrong job and those people from Lucas Arts connetced to SWG who assume people who play MMO's are stupid and complain about to much reading in online games.
(this post was pushed out in alpha so if there are errors i don't care like SOE :P)
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
Not to mention the time and manpower required for expansions. This game could have been sweet if they had just done one thing at a time. Roll out. Fix problems. Jedi. Fix problems. Expansion. Fix problems. Instead of: Roll out. Fix some problems while creating others. Jedi. Fix some problems while creating others. Etc. They spread themselves way too thin and bit off more than they could chew in such a short period of time. They wanted to do it all right away. Maybe they thought because of the huge development team they had in place they could but clearly this choice was flawed. Poor leadership.
But the answer for all this isn't the NGE. I played a little of the NGE on TC then again after I let my sub ran out with the free trial. Movement sucks, combat sucks and the lack of diversity and ability to experiment sucks. Funny how every change they seem to make (pub 27/28) gets the NGE closer to CURB than farther from it. They keep adding things in that used to be there already. It's almost like a backdoor way of trying to do what we're all screaming about without losing face.
I don't really think that's it. SOE's MO has always been the same. They start with something at one extreme of the pendulum...and then in knee-jerk fashion, "fix" it by swinging waaaay over to the other extreme of the pendulum. Then they very gradually, very slowly (and very ineptly) try to tick over from that one extreme to the middle until the screaming gets to an acceptable rate for their tastes. They aren't so much caving in as much as they are admitting they have no idea what they're doing and are getting desparate.
An indisputable testament to how great the pre-CU days were - Ebay.
Jedi used to auction for up to $2,000. People used to pay two freaking thousand dollars for a toon. Of course, those that paid that amount back then must be majorly upset - rightly so - but still, $2,000???
Ironically, the things that I enjoyed the most about SWG became the downfall - doctor buffs, solo groups, and head-hitting swordsmen inflated the economy so badly, you couldn't even function on any kind of competitive level without a million credits to afford the uber composite armor, crates of food, or weapons of mass damage sliced destruction.
The CU was game over for me - the first morning out, I got hit while riding my bike by a level 200+ boar on Endor for 7000 damage. Even though I was able to rez without the massive XP loss, the solo game as I knew it was removed and replaced by a horrid class-based combat system with forced grouping, no combat queue, and lamer gameplay. I played for about a month into the CU, but couldn't stand it anymore.
That was close to a year ago, and here I am, still hoping they bring the original back.
"This is a long story, but the point is: Why wax nostalgic about this game or say it's been ruined? It's ALWAYS been broken. It's ALWAYS been ruined. It's ALWAYS been a steaming pile of dog crap. SOE completely trashed it from minute one. They released it in an early beta stage of development, and made it worse."
Why wax lyrical about a game that was always borked?
Well, I wasn't there 'right at the beginning' but for nearly two years till November 15th 2005 when the NGE landed the game had POTENTIAL.
There was COMPLEXITY in the crafting system (buggered up a bit in the CU but we had HOPE that it'd improve), there was VARIETY in the professions (note, professions, not archetypes) and there was FLEXIBILITY in character progression.
Moreover there was COMMUNITY and, most importantly, in bucket loads there was FUN.
It didn't matter that my toon wasn't the current fotm uberleet template, it was 'my' toon. If he was gimped, it was because I'd chosen to pick particular skills and that had been my CHOICE, not something forced onme by a linear, straitjacketed 'legacy' quest chain.
It'll come as no surprise that I played a Ranger (forum name kinda gives that away, huh?) and we were a broken profession. But a lot of folk who stuck with Ranger did so despite the limitation it's 'brokenness' seemed to give it. Sure, I couldn't go solo some of the ruffty tuffty content, well, not without a broken trap and a LOT of brandy, but I could still progress thru my profession.
I also had entertainers, all ATK'd because I enjoyed hanging out and chatting with folk. I had crafters, because I liked making and selling stuff, not to get rich, but because it was a challenge to get the best results I could with the gear that I had, and then to improve on that. (Good grief, a CHALLENGE? In SWG? Burn The Heretic!)
Off and on I had all sort of combat toons, combat medics, pikemen, even a squad leader for the fun of it... all becaue I COULD. Without having to kill the toon off and starting over from scratch. It also made... ROLEPLAYING fun. I mean, you had to have a convincing reason why your former Imperial Commando had become a Rebel aligned bio-engineer...
PS! I actually agree wit Lamethrower, just in case the above reads like am arguing against his position. The game was broke, it was ALWAYS broke, sometimes it was broke worse than others and some parts were broke beyond all repair. But it WAS fun while it lasted.
Or we'd not all be here mourningit's passing and berating the bastard lovechild of a FisherPrice acticity station that we've been left with.
PPS rofled at the phallic mining gear. Always thought that. Tho, as a critter killer I have to say that I hated the resource farms and their infernal machines with a passion. Even if they did make good hunting grounds for BIG beasties till the 'fixed' the AI.
Because most of the professions we played were removed, there is no longer an option to change if we get tired of one of the 9 available, 2 of the 9 aren't usefull anymore, so there remains 7, BH doesn't have Jedi players to kill, remain 6, the new combat system doesnt' belong here, the cities and the game itself is emptier then ever, and the bugs account is bigger then ever.
If you left you had your reasons, if we kept coming back we had ours. The game we bought and played doesn't exist anymore, only a part of the scenery. We are furious also because we bought a add on for a game we were not interest in playing pos NGE. Why we bought it? Because we liked it, somehow.
Are this reasons enough for you? Why is my MCH beloved profession gone? Can i beat the freaking guy that had this idea?
It did have 250k subscriptions before NGE or CU, so there were 250k people who did believe that something was good enough about the game to subscribe to it.
Whether it was good or not is in the eye of the beholder, though. What the actual problem is is that they altered a game completely. It is no longer the SWG I used to play because of some qualities I found good, it's a whole different game.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
I agree with deggilator. The reason the "old system" was better for me is because it was the system that I paid to play. I did not willingly pay to the NGE. No matter what faults it had, I paid my money to play it and knew what I was paying for.