What is the point of forced grouping MMOs?

TheScavenger · July 2015

Anyone can have multiple accounts and play them at the same time. Take WoW, one dude had a whole bunch of accounts and soloed raids with them (I consider it soloing, because its just himself grouping with himself). Where as, everyone who only has one or two accounts, can't do this. Is that not a HUGE advantage to people who can afford having many computers and accounts running at once?

I voted Obama because people like that, the rich have too many advantages. I want everyone to be poor and on equal footing, no one should be rich or have an advantage. If you are rich in real life, you can avoid going to prison and all kinds of things because you get the best lawyers and can afford a whole team of the best lawyers. That isn't fair at all. Likewise, in a forced grouping MMO...even like in EVE...people just have more than one account running and soloing stuff. But us poor folk are lucky to afford one MMO subscription, and we are forced to actually find a group where as the rich person has a huge advantage.

So take EVE, its a hardcore grouping MMO. But my best friend at the time (I stopped playing with him) always has 4-5 accounts running on any MMO he is playing. He can solo things I can never hope to solo because its just me by myself. He doesn't have to wait for groups, he doesn't need to deal with trolls or bad players...he just goes around soloing things at a very fast rate. In WoW at one point he soloed the endgame raids of MoP because he had many accounts running at one time.

That isn't fair at all, and makes forced grouping MMOs only benefit rich players.

Then again, the company makes more money off of that. So is that why companies like forced grouping MMOs, to get people to have more than one account?

Claies · July 2015

Really? So now playing MMOs is a political argument?

TheScavenger · July 2015

Originally posted by Claies
Really? So now playing MMOs is a political argument?

Well, it was a point I was trying to come across. Like the real world, the rich benefit too much in MMOs.

Now if a MMO is solo oriented, it doesn't matter if someone has more than one account...I can do the same content that he does. But in a forced grouping MMO, anyone with a lot of money can make lots of accounts and do content I could never hope to do.

That is the difference.

Loktofeit · July 2015

Scav, from your recent post history, it is rather clear that the underlying issue you have is that other people have things in a game that you don't have. Now, you can say that ISN'T the issue, but all of your recent posts (haven't read any further back than today) seem to point directly at that.

TheScavenger · July 2015

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Scav, from your recent post history, it is rather clear that the underlying issue you have is that other people have things in a game that you don't have. Now, you can say that ISN'T the issue, but all of your recent posts (haven't read any further back than today) seem to point directly at that.

Well yeah. But thats because anyone who has more money, and its even worse in a free to play or freemium MMO, has a huge advantage over those who don't pay or have a lot less money. That is actually one reason I like buy to play and pay to play MMOs, its all a lot more on an equal footing (especially pay to play)...except then anyone with even MORE money has a HUGE advantage if the MMO is very group focused.

Now, I'm completely fine with group based MMOs...I play with my friends all the time in EVE and now they moved to FFXIV. But, its still was a major issue in EVE...one person having a whole fleet of ships (only saw this once, but it stuck in my memory for a long time) just owned us all. That isn't very fair to me.

Loke666 · July 2015

The thing with boxing is that 5 different players will always be better than one player playing everyone himnself.

There is 2 reasons why you can box effectively. First is the game too easy and secondly is the combat too simple. In games where movement and timing is essential to win combat people don't box.

Boxing works best with games where focusing on a single target at ny given moment in time is most effective. In actual combat that tactic rarely work unless you get assaulted by a tank (a real one, not a trinity "tank") and some infantery soldiers.

So you are trying to fix the problem from the wrong end, grouping i usually the best MMO content around. There are very few solo moments in a MMO when I think of the best PvE I had. Of course a bad PUG sucks but a good one is amazing and so is playing together with good friends.

A MMO is something with a lot of other players around, not using that is a waste.

Quizzical · July 2015

If multi-boxing bothers you, you could try games where it's impractical. I doubt that anyone can effectively control five characters at once in Neverwinter or Spiral Knights, for example.

That multi-boxing is practical doesn't automatically mean that combat is easy. If combat is turn-based such as in Wizard 101 or Wakfu, being slower to do things because you're controlling multiple characters doesn't hurt you.

Loke666 · July 2015

Originally posted by Quizzical
If multi-boxing bothers you, you could try games where it's impractical. I doubt that anyone can effectively control five characters at once in Neverwinter or Spiral Knights, for example.

That multi-boxing is practical doesn't automatically mean that combat is easy. If combat is turn-based such as in Wizard 101 or Wakfu, being slower to do things because you're controlling multiple characters doesn't hurt you.

Any action combat makes it very hard, TERA and GW2 are 2 other examples where boxing isn't effective. And DCU for that matter.

Nitth · July 2015

Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Quizzical If multi-boxing bothers you, you could try games where it's impractical. I doubt that anyone can effectively control five characters at once in Neverwinter or Spiral Knights, for example. That multi-boxing is practical doesn't automatically mean that combat is easy. If combat is turn-based such as in Wizard 101 or Wakfu, being slower to do things because you're controlling multiple characters doesn't hurt you.

Any action combat makes it very hard, TERA and GW2 are 2 other examples where boxing isn't effective. And DCU for that matter.

How so?
Why cant you just load up 10 clients and stack your characters?

jitter77 · July 2015

I only boxed once and it was with a golf game. I was a high level and needed so many students to reach a certain level to gain a permanent stat item. I had a few legit students, but I made alt accounts and played with my main. This was a F2P game though. Anyone paying $60 a month to play WoW or any game is crazy in my opinion. Also anyone able to control 4-5 characters in any MMO is pretty talented in my opinion.

Wizardry · July 2015

OP....

You ar overlooking the obvious,the problem when talking Wow is add-ons and what i call cheating.I know they run 5 accounts or more, i have seen in,used to watch it on Justin.tv they had a channel just for multi boxing.

The problem is you can NOT run 5 accounts,no way no how without some form of cheat.IO often duo box but even that is not comfortable,so you might think the rich benefit from affording multi accounts,but as i said,it is not comfortable playing 2 accounts ..legit.

I would much rather play one account and group with other players.

IMO this was just a weak attempt at complaining about grouping which is laughable because 99% of the games out there are solo,so not like there is not already a flooded market in single player games PRETENDING to be MMO's.

Forced grouping is also "IF YOU are a decent person yourself" way better for the community.Those shy people will meet friends,join guilds and have people to talk to about content.Geesh i remember inviting a healer in FFXI,the guy had no clue how to group or make macros.I spent around 30 minutes helping the guy so he could be a better player and be be better at grouping.

Naturally you will run into bad people along the way,this is life,why play online games if you don't want to deal with REAL people?Not like there isn't 10,000 developers with about 50,000 games out there to choose from the single player market,most argue the single player games are often better.

Sovrath · July 2015

Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by Claies
Really? So now playing MMOs is a political argument?

Well, it was a point I was trying to come across. Like the real world, the rich benefit too much in MMOs.

Now if a MMO is solo oriented, it doesn't matter if someone has more than one account...I can do the same content that he does. But in a forced grouping MMO, anyone with a lot of money can make lots of accounts and do content I could never hope to do.

That is the difference.

uh, I think you are reaching.

Not everyone has the ability to "box" and certainly they shouldn't be using programs to help them box.

I've decided that the term "forced grouping" is too cynical. What? Are there no sports or games that require teams?

Should every activity be "solo"? And keep in mind I'm pretty much a "solo player'. Oh I enjoy good groups and have great fun when I can get one but you will never see me log into a game and say "hey guys, any groups going on".

And funny enough I'm an extrovert. Though probably an ambivert.

I think it's good to have content that requires groups. I don't believe in conent should fit every type of person and type of player. I believe it's ok to have "different type of content that requires different effort and resources".

In any case I think your boxing theory is a bit far fetched. Oh yeah people box but in truth it doesn't cost that much for accounts if you have a "regular" middle management or average income job let alone be an investment banker.

tawess · July 2015

What is the point of forced grouping MMOs?

To take some preassure of the content and game balance teams... By putting in artificial limiters on content there is less need to balance the content for different groupsizes.

Any more questions?

waynejr2 · July 2015

Originally posted by TheScavenger
Anyone can have multiple accounts and play them at the same time. Take WoW, one dude had a whole bunch of accounts and soloed raids with them (I consider it soloing, because its just himself grouping with himself). Where as, everyone who only has one or two accounts, can't do this. Is that not a HUGE advantage to people who can afford having many computers and accounts running at once?

I voted Obama because people like that, the rich have too many advantages. I want everyone to be poor and on equal footing, no one should be rich or have an advantage. If you are rich in real life, you can avoid going to prison and all kinds of things because you get the best lawyers and can afford a whole team of the best lawyers. That isn't fair at all. Likewise, in a forced grouping MMO...even like in EVE...people just have more than one account running and soloing stuff. But us poor folk are lucky to afford one MMO subscription, and we are forced to actually find a group where as the rich person has a huge advantage.

So take EVE, its a hardcore grouping MMO. But my best friend at the time (I stopped playing with him) always has 4-5 accounts running on any MMO he is playing. He can solo things I can never hope to solo because its just me by myself. He doesn't have to wait for groups, he doesn't need to deal with trolls or bad players...he just goes around soloing things at a very fast rate. In WoW at one point he soloed the endgame raids of MoP because he had many accounts running at one time.

That isn't fair at all, and makes forced grouping MMOs only benefit rich players.

Then again, the company makes more money off of that. So is that why companies like forced grouping MMOs, to get people to have more than one account?

You haven't made any kind of argument about multiboxing being unfair. Are you entitled to solo?

Aelious · July 2015

To provide content that fully utilizes the functionality of playing cooperatively with other players all over the globe.

The other stuff has less to do with gaming and seems more focused on socioeconomic issues, that I'm not getting into here.

Saur0n · July 2015

Why play an MMO if you don't want to interact with other players?

Dullahan · July 2015

Originally posted by Robokapp
It's not an argument. He's a communist. The wall is down. He loses by default.

Loke666 · July 2015

Originally posted by Wizardry
OP....

You ar overlooking the obvious,the problem when talking Wow is add-ons and what i call cheating.I know they run 5 accounts or more, i have seen in,used to watch it on Justin.tv they had a channel just for multi boxing.

The problem is you can NOT run 5 accounts,no way no how without some form of cheat.IO often duo box but even that is not comfortable,so you might think the rich benefit from affording multi accounts,but as i said,it is not comfortable playing 2 accounts ..legit.

I would much rather play one account and group with other players.

IMO this was just a weak attempt at complaining about grouping which is laughable because 99% of the games out there are solo,so not like there is not already a flooded market in single player games PRETENDING to be MMO's.

Forced grouping is also "IF YOU are a decent person yourself" way better for the community.Those shy people will meet friends,join guilds and have people to talk to about content.Geesh i remember inviting a healer in FFXI,the guy had no clue how to group or make macros.I spent around 30 minutes helping the guy so he could be a better player and be be better at grouping.

Naturally you will run into bad people along the way,this is life,why play online games if you don't want to deal with REAL people?Not like there isn't 10,000 developers with about 50,000 games out there to choose from the single player market,most argue the single player games are often better.

A buddy of mine used to box 4 accounts in EQ2 so 5 is surely possible. It ain't so easy that OP thinks, at least not in most games but it is possible.

Some players for example use a single bluetooth mouse and keyboard for all their characters, then it just comes down to customizing keys.

Still, I did play with my buddys 4 characters and he played a lot worse then with 1. He was still pretty good but nowhere near what he could do with a single character.

I am not sure how it is in Eve though, in some games always focusing on a single target is an advantage, you do get rid of co-ordination issues where someone just constantly do the wrong thing but as you said, a little tutoring usually fixes that unless the player is one of those morons who think he played good and don't take well meaned advices. Those players are thankfully not that common.

I prefer to play with 4 or 5 actual players than a single, if someone wants to box that is fine with me as long as he/she doesn't cheat.

Mardukk · July 2015

Originally posted by TheScavenger
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Scav, from your recent post history, it is rather clear that the underlying issue you have is that other people have things in a game that you don't have. Now, you can say that ISN'T the issue, but all of your recent posts (haven't read any further back than today) seem to point directly at that.

Well yeah. But thats because anyone who has more money, and its even worse in a free to play or freemium MMO, has a huge advantage over those who don't pay or have a lot less money. That is actually one reason I like buy to play and pay to play MMOs, its all a lot more on an equal footing (especially pay to play)...except then anyone with even MORE money has a HUGE advantage if the MMO is very group focused.

Now, I'm completely fine with group based MMOs...I play with my friends all the time in EVE and now they moved to FFXIV. But, its still was a major issue in EVE...one person having a whole fleet of ships (only saw this once, but it stuck in my memory for a long time) just owned us all. That isn't very fair to me.

How you ended up in EvE and lasted ten seconds is beyond me.

I like "forced" grouping MMO's as they actually provide some challenge for PvE and PvP people. I like to push the limits of soloing PvE somtimes and the old school/forced grouping MMO's seem to be the only ones that offer any PvE challenge.

I agree with the post below. The "it's not fair" crowd seems to lack maturity or not understand how the world actually works.

Viper482 · July 2015

Can't stand "it's not fair" people personally. Life isn't fair, that's why kids die of cancer at 5 years old and you are allowed to live on. That's why drunk drivers kill innocent people but live themselves. If I have a job that makes more than you that is your problem, not mine. Do better.

And why do you care if some dude is soloing raids because he paid for 10 accounts? How does this affect you? Why would you envy that? How boring life must be if you have to buy 10 accounts and play by yourself.

Either way, it does not affect you at all so how about worrying about your own life. "Though shall not covet" is a commandment for a reason, you will be a happier person is you stop focusing on what someone else has and focus more on what you have. If you want more, EARN it.

Hrimnir · July 2015

The worst part about this is i honestly can't tell if he is serious or just a really clever troll.

Juice2000 · July 2015

If you dont like grouping, your playing the wrong genre of game. Try single player games theres plenty of good ones out there. These games are mostly designed for people to play together and as much as you may want to partake in them there really is no point as they are not designed for you.

Octagon7711 · July 2015

Originally posted by Juice2000
If you dont like grouping, your playing the wrong genre of game. Try single player games theres plenty of good ones out there. These games are mostly designed for people to play together and as much as you may want to partake in them there really is no point as they are not designed for you.

Why is there 'solo content' in mmo's if it's not designed for players who like to solo from time to time?

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What is the point of forced grouping MMOs?

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey