As the game has only been in ACTIVE development for two (TWO) years [10/2012-10/2014] (how long was SWtOR in development?), I don't understand what all the crying and whining is about. If one cant distinguish how being involved in the development process (which is a very tedious thing in and of itself) is different from say only getting involved with a game once it goes beta (and has basically missed the long development curve), then they don't need to be following the game in the first place. Casual or otherwise.
Video game development is a slow process. Well, that is if you want any semblance of a "good" game. The REAL problem is so many people have just gotten used to and therefore now accept the big-publisher, cookie-cutter approach to video-game development as the norm. So when a game like Star Citizen or Elite: Dangerous comes along and dynamically shatters that entire premise, people who hold to that premise panic. And when people panic, the doom-sayers and nay-sayers come out of the woodwork.
The simple answer is that Star Citizen isn’t a "normal" game. It’s not being developed like a normal game and it’s not being funded like a normal game. There is no publisher. There is no venture capitalist waiting for a massive return in three years. There is no need to cram the game onto a disc and hope they got it all right. Star Citizen is not the type of game that will be played for a few weeks, then put on a shelf to gather dust. Instead of building a game in secrecy, C.I.G. can be and have been fully open with us as a community who have made this game possible. They can involve the current and future player-base in the creative feedback loop as they develop and iterate core systems in a way that's NEVER been done before. ALL the money C.I.G. brings in before launch is being spent on development. It's that simple. And unless ANYONE can provide/supply ANY proof that Chris or C.I.G. have been ANYTHING other than up-front with their intentions, you're spewing nothing more than hot air. Being cautious about one's own spending habits is one thing and it is to be respected, but calling the game a "sham" or a "rip-off" without ANY proof or facts thereof diminishes ANY chance of the nay-sayer's being taken seriously. Especially in light of all the various cookie-cutter crap video games being released on a constant basis. If you're one of those people who can spend $60.00 to $100.00 dollars on every new C.o.D. that comes out, then you have NO voice on the matter of C.I.G.'s ethics concerning the development of Star Citizen.
Honestly, yeah it does. If you think that game developers are there so they can make a quick buck and skip town, you're ridiculous. There really isn't any fanfare surrounding the job. Apart from a couple well-known, outspoken developers, being a game dev generally sucks, so you better enjoy doing it.
Kind of a bold statement to make. If it sucked so bad, don't you think nobody would do it? And if you enjoy doing it, doesn't that mean it isn't terrible? More like game development is a niche job that isn't for everybody. Most of the people who are game devs love the job or else they wouldn't be there. Source: I know game devs...
Onto Star Citizen: meh is all I can say. It's quite clear the majority of that money is not being reinvested into the project and with a release date still potentially 18-24 months away, it will just be any generic MMO by then.
I guess you either didnt read the letter from the chairman where he clearly states this to be the exact opposite of what you claim here, or you skipped that part of it.
I have a lot of industry friends pat me on the back and say, “Wow, it must be so great to be operating in profit even before you ship!” Their look usually turns to incredulity when I explain that my intention is for all the money we bring in before launch to be spent on development. It is the community, from the existing backers who continue to support the game, to new members who join every day who are setting the level of ambition and budget for Star Citizen. Every effort is about enriching the game’s vision. Funding to date has allowed us to go so far beyond what I thought was possible in 2012. You’re still getting that game, no question, but it will be all the richer and so much more immersive because of the additional funding.
Its usually a good idea to research what you are talking about before talking about it, that way you can avoid making blunders like the one you did here.
"Roberts is doing things right so far. He's taking what we all loved from Wing Commander and Freelancer and giving it the modern upgrade it deserves, complete with some impressive online multiplayer features."
Methinks this isn't going to be a proper MMORPG. Sounding more like a multi-player flight sim. The backlash is going to be so epic.
It isn't a "proper" mmo, CR never stated it was. It is an instanced multi-player Persistent Universe game. Just easier to call it an mmo because a bunch of people can play together lol.
There is no skills or training. It is a space sim combined with a fps that is going to allow for a wide variety of 'roles' to function based on ship type, size and boarding actions.
The only progression available will be equipment.
I think the problem here is that people are getting too hung up in the term "Instancing" which seems to give people the wrong associations.
What they see that word, they usually think instancing in the way its been done in more traditional MMOs, like WOW, SWTOR, STO and GW2.
The "instancing", which in my opinion is a misnomer, is going to be far more fluid and dynamic than what most people seem to think.
There is a youtube video that explain the instancing quite nicely actually.
This is by no means an official video, but its good as a reference and should hopefully help people think more outside the box instead of the layered system that most seems to be on most peoples minds.
Originally posted by Talonsin No matter what, Chris made his money. I'm sure he would "like" the game to be hugely successful but does it really matter? If I pocket 5 million for the game and it comes out "average" who cares, you still made 5 million. I think a lot of people are going to be let down by this game when it launches due to the excessive hype and large budget Chris has to work with.
Honestly, yeah it does. If you think that game developers are there so they can make a quick buck and skip town, you're ridiculous. There really isn't any fanfare surrounding the job. Apart from a couple well-known, outspoken developers, being a game dev generally sucks, so you better enjoy doing it.
Chris is obviously passionate about building this game because he's building exactly what he wanted Freelancer to be before he got the boot from that project.
Will it be good or will it suck? Who knows? However, he's taking risks and that's all I really care about. It'll be over-hyped for sure. Every game is. Every movie is. Every meal is. I'm not sure what your expectation is. I really can't remember the last time that something REALLY, honestly and truly blew my mind, though. So it's all relative, I suppose.
He didn't say he will skip town. He did say that even if game tanks or is below average in success Chris is already rich and got enough money to live rest of his life comfortably never to work for a day again. Not like he has to give dollar by dollar account to those who threw millions at him.
There is no "false" hype when it comes to SC - unless your getting your information from the wrong source. Everything you want to know about SC is on their web site. In my 19 years of playing/following AAA MMO's, I've never seen a development process as open as this. If your unable to ascertain from the tons of available information and/or from the ongoing alpha test if this game is for you, then the fault lies with you. Hype only exists if false information about the game is given, or the reader is unable to comprehend the material. So far, I like what I've seen. In the end it's going to come down to "implementation". It's kinda funny how two people can read the same thing can come up with two totally different realizations of what the game is actually going to be. I've played enough games, and been let down more times than I care to remember - to know what to expect from SC. If it surpasses my expectations than great.
1. the game sucks/doesnt't come out or get's buried in the desert. i move on and find another. (but there is no other) total outcome: no one happy except haters and i dont like em.
2. the game doesn't suck/rocks/playes well and everything above is just fun stuff except haters (cuz they hate anything, hence i don't like em.
if you invested a lot (like me): be a man and suck it up. you get a game or you won't. wouldn't be my first investment going up in smoke.
if you didn't invest, what are you whining about?
no guarantee. ever. i never expect it. and i know i might pay for a game that plays like shit, or is so awesome that i play like shit. i knew that the moment i started pledging.
ntw. that game of derek smart (alganon, now avaliable at steam... is rated mostly negative. so me think he better invest his million in his own game.)
"Our internal headcount has gone from five at the end of 2012 to 59 at the end of 2013 to 183 at the end of 2014 and to 255 now." 138 of them in Europe (UK and Germany), 117 in the US.
Add to that the contractors ( 2014 it was around 80ish if I remember correctly, I suspect its more like 100 now). But for them you cannot use salary figures, the contractors are paid per task. They have anything from 1-person item skin freelancer artists to half of a studio (Ilfonic).
50.000.000 ( 50 MILLON $) IN WAGES ALONE not counting offices computers power bills workstations software..
I´d sleep a lot better if the campaign hits 100 million $ tomorrow
Some numbers for recalculation:
<follows with lots of figures which don't really prove much>
Have fun
JonBonJawa's figures are pretty fair. Not exact, but close. Especially when you consider that with overheads the figure can be anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 times higher.
The contractor figure can vary slightly - but if anything might be slightly higher.
In any case, SC will be a victim of its own success. Double Fine raised 3 million and even though they never promised a game (see the original KickStarter pitch) they then felt pressured to produce a great one.
RSI is now in a far worse position. Not only is there huge hype and expectation but they have already sold a ton of stuff for a game that doesn't exist yet. Now they have to include that stuff in the game and it all has to be equally awesome. It's a trap they have made for themselves.
I don't see how they can live up to the hype. There are already several great space sims out there - some more than a decade old - and this game has to be much better AND an MMO to boot.
I see tears soon. I would like to be proved wrong.
Originally posted by Talonsin No matter what, Chris made his money. I'm sure he would "like" the game to be hugely successful but does it really matter? If I pocket 5 million for the game and it comes out "average" who cares, you still made 5 million. I think a lot of people are going to be let down by this game when it launches due to the excessive hype and large budget Chris has to work with.
Well, Star Citizen is his game right? What's to stop CR from selling the game after it's completion? Why stop at $5M? He can run away with $500M, all off the backs of donators.
Comments
As the game has only been in ACTIVE development for two (TWO) years [10/2012-10/2014] (how long was SWtOR in development?), I don't understand what all the crying and whining is about. If one cant distinguish how being involved in the development process (which is a very tedious thing in and of itself) is different from say only getting involved with a game once it goes beta (and has basically missed the long development curve), then they don't need to be following the game in the first place. Casual or otherwise.
Video game development is a slow process. Well, that is if you want any semblance of a "good" game. The REAL problem is so many people have just gotten used to and therefore now accept the big-publisher, cookie-cutter approach to video-game development as the norm. So when a game like Star Citizen or Elite: Dangerous comes along and dynamically shatters that entire premise, people who hold to that premise panic. And when people panic, the doom-sayers and nay-sayers come out of the woodwork.
The simple answer is that Star Citizen isn’t a "normal" game. It’s not being developed like a normal game and it’s not being funded like a normal game. There is no publisher. There is no venture capitalist waiting for a massive return in three years. There is no need to cram the game onto a disc and hope they got it all right. Star Citizen is not the type of game that will be played for a few weeks, then put on a shelf to gather dust. Instead of building a game in secrecy, C.I.G. can be and have been fully open with us as a community who have made this game possible. They can involve the current and future player-base in the creative feedback loop as they develop and iterate core systems in a way that's NEVER been done before. ALL the money C.I.G. brings in before launch is being spent on development. It's that simple. And unless ANYONE can provide/supply ANY proof that Chris or C.I.G. have been ANYTHING other than up-front with their intentions, you're spewing nothing more than hot air. Being cautious about one's own spending habits is one thing and it is to be respected, but calling the game a "sham" or a "rip-off" without ANY proof or facts thereof diminishes ANY chance of the nay-sayer's being taken seriously. Especially in light of all the various cookie-cutter crap video games being released on a constant basis. If you're one of those people who can spend $60.00 to $100.00 dollars on every new C.o.D. that comes out, then you have NO voice on the matter of C.I.G.'s ethics concerning the development of Star Citizen.
I guess you either didnt read the letter from the chairman where he clearly states this to be the exact opposite of what you claim here, or you skipped that part of it.
I have a lot of industry friends pat me on the back and say, “Wow, it must be so great to be operating in profit even before you ship!” Their look usually turns to incredulity when I explain that my intention is for all the money we bring in before launch to be spent on development. It is the community, from the existing backers who continue to support the game, to new members who join every day who are setting the level of ambition and budget for Star Citizen. Every effort is about enriching the game’s vision. Funding to date has allowed us to go so far beyond what I thought was possible in 2012. You’re still getting that game, no question, but it will be all the richer and so much more immersive because of the additional funding.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14184-Letter-From-The-Chairman
Its usually a good idea to research what you are talking about before talking about it, that way you can avoid making blunders like the one you did here.
I think the problem here is that people are getting too hung up in the term "Instancing" which seems to give people the wrong associations.
What they see that word, they usually think instancing in the way its been done in more traditional MMOs, like WOW, SWTOR, STO and GW2.
The "instancing", which in my opinion is a misnomer, is going to be far more fluid and dynamic than what most people seem to think.
There is a youtube video that explain the instancing quite nicely actually.
This is by no means an official video, but its good as a reference and should hopefully help people think more outside the box instead of the layered system that most seems to be on most peoples minds.
He didn't say he will skip town. He did say that even if game tanks or is below average in success Chris is already rich and got enough money to live rest of his life comfortably never to work for a day again. Not like he has to give dollar by dollar account to those who threw millions at him.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
So 280 jobs to pay...
maybe average 5000$ cost per month...
three years developments...
5000 x 280 x 36
50.000.000 ( 50 MILLON $) IN WAGES ALONE not counting offices computers power bills workstations software..
I´d sleep a lot better if the campaign hits 100 million $ tomorrow
I expect some people cutting themselves if/when this game releases. I hope they advertise it as an MMO.
This is going to be great!!!
Will have popcorn ready.
I am support this ;https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen but 100% lost interesting for SC with this ;https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge .
Never again!
ROFL. LOL and more.
it's simple: only two outcomes:
1. the game sucks/doesnt't come out or get's buried in the desert. i move on and find another. (but there is no other) total outcome: no one happy except haters and i dont like em.
2. the game doesn't suck/rocks/playes well and everything above is just fun stuff except haters (cuz they hate anything, hence i don't like em.
if you invested a lot (like me): be a man and suck it up. you get a game or you won't. wouldn't be my first investment going up in smoke.
if you didn't invest, what are you whining about?
no guarantee. ever. i never expect it. and i know i might pay for a game that plays like shit, or is so awesome that i play like shit. i knew that the moment i started pledging.
ntw. that game of derek smart (alganon, now avaliable at steam... is rated mostly negative. so me think he better invest his million in his own game.)
Some numbers for recalculation:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14839-Letter-From-The-Chairman
"Our internal headcount has gone from five at the end of 2012 to 59 at the end of 2013 to 183 at the end of 2014 and to 255 now." 138 of them in Europe (UK and Germany), 117 in the US.
Average salaries:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/computerprogrammer.shtml
Add to that the contractors ( 2014 it was around 80ish if I remember correctly, I suspect its more like 100 now). But for them you cannot use salary figures, the contractors are paid per task. They have anything from 1-person item skin freelancer artists to half of a studio (Ilfonic).
Have fun
PS:
JonBonJawa's figures are pretty fair. Not exact, but close. Especially when you consider that with overheads the figure can be anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 times higher.
The contractor figure can vary slightly - but if anything might be slightly higher.
In any case, SC will be a victim of its own success. Double Fine raised 3 million and even though they never promised a game (see the original KickStarter pitch) they then felt pressured to produce a great one.
RSI is now in a far worse position. Not only is there huge hype and expectation but they have already sold a ton of stuff for a game that doesn't exist yet. Now they have to include that stuff in the game and it all has to be equally awesome. It's a trap they have made for themselves.
I don't see how they can live up to the hype. There are already several great space sims out there - some more than a decade old - and this game has to be much better AND an MMO to boot.
I see tears soon. I would like to be proved wrong.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Well, Star Citizen is his game right? What's to stop CR from selling the game after it's completion? Why stop at $5M? He can run away with $500M, all off the backs of donators.