As it stands, Star Citizen can be completed one day and when that day comes, Chris Roberts could sell SC to Microsoft and he runs away with $500M in his pocket. All from funding off the backs of donators who've donated upwards of $15k for pledge packages. I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying it can.
do you even know how ironic it is you said that, Chris made a deal and gave his crowdfund game "freelancer" to Microsoft that had to cut things and dump alot more money into the game to get it done. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freelancer_(video_game)
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
And that is why I refrain from giving them any money. If you have money you don't need, give it to a charity. You will sleep better at night.
Have to disagree. You are investing in something that would not be made if it were not for crowdfunding. Some excellent titles are coming from these, as their is no "big name" developer breathing down their necks making them make the game their way. That being said, some bad apples having givin crowdfunding a bad name. But if you want to see a "so far" great example of how crowdfunding/kickstarters should be handled, look at camelot unchained. You want weekly stockholders meetings with up front honesty, then they got it.
Good news or bad news, they (Mark Jacobs) lets you know about it and their plans to handle any situation or idea with your invested money.
On a budget of less than 3 mill, they are even making their own game engine and the game looks very impressive even at Alpha. Not the 85 mill that one unamed company has soaked from the masses so far.
Gist of it is, it is a gamble. Educate yourself the best you can before you hit that donate button.
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
It's nothing like any form of investing.
This. Kickstarter fundings are DONATIONS, not investments.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You are investing in something that would not be made if it were not for crowdfunding.
THIS !
In crowdfunding i see the opportunity to see games being created that would NOT have been attempted under the current industry conditions.
If you are not working on a formula based Assassins Auto Cry of Middle-Earth with towers to climb, on the slowest denomination hardware for multi-platform capability, then you have a hard time to get the funding from any publisher.
Money i spend on Kickstarter projects i do not see as an investment. Its basically a gift i can afford to lose.
So far i am quite happy with the projects, wether its a Polish rover project, a private moon lander or games (inXile (Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Bards Tale 4), CIG (Star Citizen) , Obsidian (Pillars of Eternity), Frontier (Elite:Dangerous) etc.). If you choose carefully, these are very dedicated groups that keep you very much infomed and in the loop. BUT you DO have to read the information yourself. Claiming a lack of updates when there is a ton of information available .. just because someone is too lazy to check a webpage once in a while...is IMHO carping.
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
It's nothing like any form of investing.
This. Kickstarter fundings are DONATIONS, not investments.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
My guess is that it's an investment in the potential of the project.
While you might not see it on their website (and I can understand why as so many people jump to the idea that "investment" means "investing in stocks/receiving a capital return") it still works.
If I practice for 4 hours I can say I invested my time. What I get back is what would be expected from "investing one's time". If people want to see it as "an investment" then to them it is actually an investment, regardless of whether they get some monetary gain (which they won't) or get something else in return (a product they want an possibly some perk).
there are many definitions for "investment" and I suspect that when people use it for this purpose they mean:
A commitment, as of time or support.
They are talking about the commitment part and most likely the "support" part.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
It's nothing like any form of investing.
This. Kickstarter fundings are DONATIONS, not investments.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
My guess is that it's an investment in the potential of the project.
While you might not see it on their website (and I can understand why as so many people jump to the idea that "investment" means "investing in stocks/receiving a capital return") it still works.
If I practice for 4 hours I can say I invested my time. What I get back is what would be expected from "investing one's time". If people want to see it as "an investment" then to them it is actually an investment, regardless of whether they get some monetary gain (which they won't) or get something else in return (a product they want an possibly some perk).
there are many definitions for "investment" and I suspect that when people use it for this purpose they mean:
A commitment, as of time or support.
They are talking about the commitment part and most likely the "support" part.
It's not a bad point. I guess people could see it as an investment from their perspective. However, I'll re-use an analogy from before and talk about pledging to a kid who says he's going to run 20 miles. If he doesn't finish the 20 miles, do I go and sue him? Or ask for my money back? IDK, maybe some would.
I've invested in few kickstarter projects. If it's a good project it will succeed on it's own as there seem to be many people willing to invest up to thousands of dollars into projects. When and if they meet their goals and the project does ship it's usually in an alpha state with lots of things still left to be worked out. Sometimes the finished project is different from the original concept.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It's always better to overestimate how long a project will take then it is to underestimate. If they think it'll take two years to complete they should say it'll be finished in three-to-four.
Yep, that works for a lot things. :-)
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
It's nothing like any form of investing.
This. Kickstarter fundings are DONATIONS, not investments.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
My guess is that it's an investment in the potential of the project.
While you might not see it on their website (and I can understand why as so many people jump to the idea that "investment" means "investing in stocks/receiving a capital return") it still works.
If I practice for 4 hours I can say I invested my time. What I get back is what would be expected from "investing one's time". If people want to see it as "an investment" then to them it is actually an investment, regardless of whether they get some monetary gain (which they won't) or get something else in return (a product they want an possibly some perk).
there are many definitions for "investment" and I suspect that when people use it for this purpose they mean:
A commitment, as of time or support.
They are talking about the commitment part and most likely the "support" part.
It's not a bad point. I guess people could see it as an investment from their perspective. However, I'll re-use an analogy from before and talk about pledging to a kid who says he's going to run 20 miles. If he doesn't finish the 20 miles, do I go and sue him? Or ask for my money back? IDK, maybe some would.
I suppose one could, depends. I can see one suing for their money back if a kid decided to pocket the money, stay home and play video games.
The biggest problem with Crowdfunding is the idiot ´developers´ who don´t understand that there is a huge gap between ´I have an idea´ and building a fun game and think that a little money will bridge that gap. Ironically, most have never built a game before, so have no idea how much money it would take to make their idea happen anyway..
I am not against crowdfuning, but people are stupid if they invest in any group/person who has never made a game before. And you deserve to lose your money if you invest in anyone who is making a MMORPG or big multiplayer game as their first game.
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
And that is why I refrain from giving them any money. If you have money you don't need, give it to a charity. You will sleep better at night.
Most big charities are the biggest scam of the modern age. They beg for money with 3 min long adverts that cost millions of dollars per day to air, money they could have used for issue they're presenting you.. Research the smaller legit charities really doing something to help to give your money to. Big charities are another money grabbing organization like FiFA.
The biggest problem with Crowdfunding is the idiot ´developers´ who don´t understand that there is a huge gap between ´I have an idea´ and building a fun game and think that a little money will bridge that gap. Ironically, most have never built a game before, so have no idea how much money it would take to make their idea happen anyway..
I am not against crowdfuning, but people are stupid if they invest in any group/person who has never made a game before. And you deserve to lose your money if you invest in anyone who is making a MMORPG or big multiplayer game as their first game.
If all those people are so stupid they would squander their money on some crap anyway, this way at least it gives a chance to actually make something.
If publishers were doing so great job, there wouldnt be need/demand for KS. But its evident demand is actually huge.
And yes, there are projects that dont really have any future, even with crowdfunding, and even those "stupid" people see those (example: Pantheon: Rise of the fallen
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
It's nothing like any form of investing.
This. Kickstarter fundings are DONATIONS, not investments.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
My guess is that it's an investment in the potential of the project.
While you might not see it on their website (and I can understand why as so many people jump to the idea that "investment" means "investing in stocks/receiving a capital return") it still works.
If I practice for 4 hours I can say I invested my time. What I get back is what would be expected from "investing one's time". If people want to see it as "an investment" then to them it is actually an investment, regardless of whether they get some monetary gain (which they won't) or get something else in return (a product they want an possibly some perk).
there are many definitions for "investment" and I suspect that when people use it for this purpose they mean:
A commitment, as of time or support.
They are talking about the commitment part and most likely the "support" part.
It's not a bad point. I guess people could see it as an investment from their perspective. However, I'll re-use an analogy from before and talk about pledging to a kid who says he's going to run 20 miles. If he doesn't finish the 20 miles, do I go and sue him? Or ask for my money back? IDK, maybe some would.
I suppose one could, depends. I can see one suing for their money back if a kid decided to pocket the money, stay home and play video games.
are more about investing in things such as gold or real estate.
Both of which would have an expectation of a return over time, but also not guaranteed. If gold tanked or the house you bought fell over, then you'd be out your money. The risk would be quite low, but it's possible. That's actually not the worst analogy I've ever heard.
It is like investing in the stock market without any requirement for updates on how your stock is doing and no stockholder meetings or reports.
It's nothing like any form of investing.
This. Kickstarter fundings are DONATIONS, not investments.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
My guess is that it's an investment in the potential of the project.
While you might not see it on their website (and I can understand why as so many people jump to the idea that "investment" means "investing in stocks/receiving a capital return") it still works.
If I practice for 4 hours I can say I invested my time. What I get back is what would be expected from "investing one's time". If people want to see it as "an investment" then to them it is actually an investment, regardless of whether they get some monetary gain (which they won't) or get something else in return (a product they want an possibly some perk).
there are many definitions for "investment" and I suspect that when people use it for this purpose they mean:
A commitment, as of time or support.
They are talking about the commitment part and most likely the "support" part.
All you're doing is moving goalposts. If they assume investment in the manner that you describe, it's still irrelevant because it's not an investment in the manner that they are later expecting when the product does not deliver to spec or does not deliver at all. Understand?
A backer can't "invest in the potential of the project" with a donation and then later get upset about how their investment in the project was used. They never invested in the project - they donated to it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
do you even know how ironic it is you said that, Chris made a deal and gave his crowdfund game "freelancer" to Microsoft that had to cut things and dump alot more money into the game to get it done. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freelancer_(video_game)Have to disagree. You are investing in something that would not be made if it were not for crowdfunding. Some excellent titles are coming from these, as their is no "big name" developer breathing down their necks making them make the game their way. That being said, some bad apples having givin crowdfunding a bad name. But if you want to see a "so far" great example of how crowdfunding/kickstarters should be handled, look at camelot unchained. You want weekly stockholders meetings with up front honesty, then they got it.
Good news or bad news, they (Mark Jacobs) lets you know about it and their plans to handle any situation or idea with your invested money.
On a budget of less than 3 mill, they are even making their own game engine and the game looks very impressive even at Alpha. Not the 85 mill that one unamed company has soaked from the masses so far.
Gist of it is, it is a gamble. Educate yourself the best you can before you hit that donate button.
Just my 2 cents.
Again, the word "investment" is used many times when talking about giving money to community programs, youth workshops, charities, etc.
So it's an acceptable use of the word.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You are investing in the community in that context, Sovrath. Even if by some far stretch of the imagination we want to conflate investing in a project and donating to a project, the only 'investing' you may be doing is investing in the indie scene, investing in diversity in gaming, or some other equally abstract assignment of investment. No one who knows a damn thing about money - from your econ 101 teacher to a seasoned Wall St trader - would say "investment" is an acceptable term to define Kickstarter funding.
If "investment" had anything to do with Kickstarter funding, you would think the word would be used at least once somewhere on their website, no?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
THIS !
In crowdfunding i see the opportunity to see games being created that would NOT have been attempted under the current industry conditions.
If you are not working on a formula based Assassins Auto Cry of Middle-Earth with towers to climb, on the slowest denomination hardware for multi-platform capability, then you have a hard time to get the funding from any publisher.
Money i spend on Kickstarter projects i do not see as an investment. Its basically a gift i can afford to lose.
So far i am quite happy with the projects, wether its a Polish rover project, a private moon lander or games (inXile (Wasteland 2, Tides of Numenera, Bards Tale 4), CIG (Star Citizen) , Obsidian (Pillars of Eternity), Frontier (Elite:Dangerous) etc.). If you choose carefully, these are very dedicated groups that keep you very much infomed and in the loop. BUT you DO have to read the information yourself. Claiming a lack of updates when there is a ton of information available .. just because someone is too lazy to check a webpage once in a while...is IMHO carping.
Have fun
My guess is that it's an investment in the potential of the project.
While you might not see it on their website (and I can understand why as so many people jump to the idea that "investment" means "investing in stocks/receiving a capital return") it still works.
If I practice for 4 hours I can say I invested my time. What I get back is what would be expected from "investing one's time". If people want to see it as "an investment" then to them it is actually an investment, regardless of whether they get some monetary gain (which they won't) or get something else in return (a product they want an possibly some perk).
there are many definitions for "investment" and I suspect that when people use it for this purpose they mean:
A commitment, as of time or support.
They are talking about the commitment part and most likely the "support" part.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's not a bad point. I guess people could see it as an investment from their perspective. However, I'll re-use an analogy from before and talk about pledging to a kid who says he's going to run 20 miles. If he doesn't finish the 20 miles, do I go and sue him? Or ask for my money back? IDK, maybe some would.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I've invested in few kickstarter projects. If it's a good project it will succeed on it's own as there seem to be many people willing to invest up to thousands of dollars into projects. When and if they meet their goals and the project does ship it's usually in an alpha state with lots of things still left to be worked out. Sometimes the finished project is different from the original concept.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yep, that works for a lot things. :-)
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I suppose one could, depends. I can see one suing for their money back if a kid decided to pocket the money, stay home and play video games.
I've looked around and have found articles on "non financial investments" where people do invest money but they don't get a financial return. However, some of these examples, (with the exception of this: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Simple-Dollar/2013/0103/The-return-on-non-financial-investment
are more about investing in things such as gold or real estate.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The biggest problem with Crowdfunding is the idiot ´developers´ who don´t understand that there is a huge gap between ´I have an idea´ and building a fun game and think that a little money will bridge that gap. Ironically, most have never built a game before, so have no idea how much money it would take to make their idea happen anyway..
I am not against crowdfuning, but people are stupid if they invest in any group/person who has never made a game before. And you deserve to lose your money if you invest in anyone who is making a MMORPG or big multiplayer game as their first game.
Most big charities are the biggest scam of the modern age. They beg for money with 3 min long adverts that cost millions of dollars per day to air, money they could have used for issue they're presenting you.. Research the smaller legit charities really doing something to help to give your money to. Big charities are another money grabbing organization like FiFA.
If all those people are so stupid they would squander their money on some crap anyway, this way at least it gives a chance to actually make something.
If publishers were doing so great job, there wouldnt be need/demand for KS. But its evident demand is actually huge.
And yes, there are projects that dont really have any future, even with crowdfunding, and even those "stupid" people see those (example: Pantheon: Rise of the fallen
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen )
Both of which would have an expectation of a return over time, but also not guaranteed. If gold tanked or the house you bought fell over, then you'd be out your money. The risk would be quite low, but it's possible. That's actually not the worst analogy I've ever heard.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
All you're doing is moving goalposts. If they assume investment in the manner that you describe, it's still irrelevant because it's not an investment in the manner that they are later expecting when the product does not deliver to spec or does not deliver at all. Understand?
A backer can't "invest in the potential of the project" with a donation and then later get upset about how their investment in the project was used. They never invested in the project - they donated to it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre