Ryan Dancy: This is not a game in any sort of "test" mode. We are not "alpha" or "beta" testing. We're in Early Enrollment - a complete game with limited features that are being iterated and expanded based on Crowdforging with our players.
So the real quote is "a complete game with limited features"? Not "a complete game just missing non essential features"?
Ok. Do you need me to explain that those two statements mean different things?
Your challenge was to show me some quotes (by Dancey) that validated what YOU wrote. All of what you wrote.
Failure.
Bad Game-Fu is Bad.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
So before I disappear again (from here) I will just write one last post. There is a complete game cycle here in PfO. Advancement is possible from 1 to 20.
*There is an economy of player crafted goods, purchased by players. There is a complete fight, loot, harvest, refine, craft, trade, sell cycle.
*There are mechanics to place "Holdings" in empty hexes to increase your company and settlement's options.
*There is opportunity for banditry.
*There is plenty of opportunity for spies infiltrating player organizations. It is already happening.
*There is one serious ongoing war.
*There is even PVP fatigue, admittedly due to "limited features" like a way to finish a war, technically.
*There are limits to training that are set BY Players according to what their settlements can afford to support. EDIT: this is misleading. There is universal support for levels (ranks) to 20 for all. Individual settlements set the training that they can offer at their location by what they want and can afford to maintain. Currently, you can train anywhere that offers what you need. That is subject to change, so be NICE, make some friends.
*There is PVE. There are a nice variety of PVE mobs requiring different tactics. No, not enough yet.
* There are socially built and maintained player organizations. (The real heart of this game)
*There are deep politics that have been almost a mini game for a few years now.
*Despite contrary statements from estranged current and former supporters, there is crowdforging that actually is different and more impactful than previous sandboxes. Read the GW forums. It is all over them.
There is a game here already. Is it complete? NO. Is it playable? YES. Is it good as is? NOT FOR EVERYONE.
I will say that we have had a nice bump in recruits since the box fee was dropped. AND about 1/2 of them subscribed at the end of their trial (after a few days or the end of trial) when they played with folks from Ozem's Vigil. They must see SOMETHING worth their $14.95/month.
What are you missing right now?
Now back to the game. It eats hours like an addiction and I am wasting time here.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
Ryan Dancy: This is not a game in any sort of "test" mode. We are not "alpha" or "beta" testing. We're in Early Enrollment - a complete game with limited features that are being iterated and expanded based on Crowdforging with our players.
So the real quote is "a complete game with limited features"? Not "a complete game just missing non essential features"?
Ok. Do you need me to explain that those two statements mean different things?
Your challenge was to show me some quotes (by Dancey) that validated what YOU wrote. All of what you wrote.
Failure.
Bad Game-Fu is Bad.
You probably think that what you wrote here makes you sound more "right," but using an essentially semantic argument and then insulting the other guy to try and back away from your, frankly, embarrassing post makes you look less credible than before.
While those two statements do mean technically different things, the difference is almost negligible. I really don't see how the below statement using the red words is so different than the below statement using the blue word that you would feel like you won some victory in "Game-Fu."
Are you talking about Caldeathe's refusal to aknowledge that Ryan clearly stated that the game was live, complete, playable, and just missing non essential has limited features?
He essentially called your bluff, showed the evidence and you still didn't accept it. And I honestly don't know why it makes you upset. If anything, you should be upset with the way RD handled the situation. To me, it looks like you were sick of people repeating what were, obvious enough to you, lies or half truths. And I think you thought that because it DOES sound ridiculous. But next time, when you call someone else out and they provide evidence to back their position, at the very least, don't try and back away by using semantics, calling them a failure and telling them they are bad at "Game-Fu" (whatever that is).
I deem PO officially dead as of now. When you're so arrogant you deny every review of your garbage game as being "bias" you have lost grip on reality. I think even some of his friends would say PO is below standard on multiple levels.
If 90% of Five Guys customers said the burgers were substandard they wouldn't call them all bias toward Burger King. They would change the product overnight and that's the difference between a smart businessman and an amateur.
Well the review is in, and although the reviewer must have mentioned "crowdforging" and "potential" a dozen times (no possible connection to Ryan's reaching out as described in the OP I am sure) they still got a whopping 4.5 score.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You have repeatedly complained about the "review" by Steve. There has been no such review written. Instead he has posted a FIRST IMPRESSIONS which was clearly titled as such and explained that this represented his experience of SEVERAL HOURS (note, not 2). He said he would play the game as well as join PFU for a few weeks and THEN write his review.
Did he ever actually join a settlement and play the game? I can't find his review.
You have repeatedly complained about the "review" by Steve. There has been no such review written. Instead he has posted a FIRST IMPRESSIONS which was clearly titled as such and explained that this represented his experience of SEVERAL HOURS (note, not 2). He said he would play the game as well as join PFU for a few weeks and THEN write his review.
Did he ever actually join a settlement and play the game? I can't find his review.
Here is the link, but you can also find it under Features tab:
Im not convinced you would ever be satisfied with the length or depth of a negative review. The reality is, even if he played for two months, would he have found the game any less boring, uninspired, less grindy, or have more value worthy of a full subscription price?
Considering the number of players the game has lost from the Kick Starter pool, I'd say his score would likely have gone lower with more exposure. He likely barely had time or need to have to kill 5000 goblins to advance his weapon skill to x level. He was not there long enough to experience how much a chore settlement management is, or how stale running escalations becomes when he had done them 50 plus times.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
It is not a really bad game but it is not a really good game either.
I think rather than rely on BUYING positive reviews,the developer should put out a spokesman that can tell us why we should play this game over the thousand other choices we have?
Crowdforging is NOT an excuse or reason to play a game,not even 1%,we simply want a game that can be all around fun or offer us something we have not already been there done that a thousand times over.
Anyone that has been around since even the Wow days has likely seen 5000+ quests,i am big time certain i am over 50k quests in all the games i have played.It is sort of mind boggling that devs just don't get it,been there done it a thousand times,not interested anymore,show me SOMETHING creative that took more effort than a simple spreadsheet.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There is no such thing as a objective review... No one live in a vacuum. The best you can hope for is fair and balanced. But it is still a bit childish to put on the victim cardigan and bemoan how nobody gets your game. Because guess what... That is the life of anyone who have ever had their creative work judged by others. So your game is a special little snowflake that the common man can not understand... Guess what... The common man will give it a poor review. Compound that with most reviwers having anything between a few hours to a few days to grasp the complete image of your complex little snowflake and objective is not only a pipe-dream but downright impossible.
And turning to the people who "understand" your game will NOT give you a objective review... It will in fact produce very much the opposite. It will be much more positive but not objective.
Every time i read that article it gives me a new impression of this guys thought process.I seriously think he is a bit over biased of his game that he can't see the obvious.
It sounds like he bases game quality in "this case" on nothing but ACCESS.He thinks that because he allows some gamer's early access and allows them to say something,that makes a quality game,it is a crazy notion.
Every single game on this planet will have someone or many like it,no matter how bad the game design is.I should make it clear that when i say bad ,i am not talking about opinionated ideas i am talking straight out tech/code/effort in the systems.My point is that you can get a million bottom end developers to just make a game world and dot some mobs around in it and add in some quests,the market is FLOODED with these lazy efforts.
I really think this Goblinworks,thought it was going to be an easy ride and easy sell and some easy money.
It is VERY hard for me to express what is exactly the problem with every single system,i like to keep it simple using the term DEPTH or effort put into the systems.The way i like to say things is put your self in the game,walk around and pay attention to what you are doing,does it really feel fun or just a player going through the relegated motions?
I can give a couple examples.Take a quest put some animation into it,some interaction,some voice overs and no not CHEAP interaction like pull that obvious lever that is right in front of your nose.Put in some destructive walls,particle effects some physics,there is soooooooooo much effort that can go into each aspect of a game it is mind boggling.If you don't put that effort in the game is just a bland shell of what it SHOULD be.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The game needs more cash investment to see any real growth. It's not developed enough to warrant a sub. And I won't be guilted into feeling like I have to pay one every month or I'm letting my gaming buddies down.
The game needs more cash investment to see any real growth. It's not developed enough to warrant a sub. And I won't be guilted into feeling like I have to pay one every month or I'm letting my gaming buddies down.
I used to think that way but now I do not think it is just a matter of cash. I think there have been a series of questionable decisions made by the folks at the top and some design decisions that just don't make sense. I don't think they could fix this game even if they tripled their cash and that's my honest take on it...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There is definitely a disconnect between the reality of the state of the game and what it needs to be to warrant a full priced sub. I understand they're using the funding to "crowd forge". But they have to realize that the consumer will weigh the value of their $15 vs what the market offers and try to maximize their return. Of course it's all preceived value but $15 a month for an unfinished product or $15 for a finished and polished product, I know what I'm choosing. Also, there is a healthy amount is skeptism in the culture which will be an obstacle.
I used to think that way but now I do not think it is just a matter of cash. I think there have been a series of questionable decisions made by the folks at the top and some design decisions that just don't make sense. I don't think they could fix this game even if they tripled their cash and that's my honest take on it...
That is kinda hard to say really. The minimum requirement for a good P2P game is that it runs fine and feels like a complete game. If that wont happen it doesn't really matter how good or bad decisions the team have taken otherwise.
I do find it odd that Paizo sold the license to a team with this poor funding though. Or for that matter that they picked the license for a open world sandbox without levels, there are many leveless pen and paper games that would have worked better for that (like Runequest, Warhammer fantasy, Stormbringer, Gemini and a whole bunch of others) and allowed them to make a game closer to the original. Those license with the possible exception of Warhammer would all be far cheaper as well but most of them are still very well known with pen and paper players. Those who don't play P&P don't know what Pathfinder is anyways.
The game needs more cash investment to see any real growth. It's not developed enough to warrant a sub. And I won't be guilted into feeling like I have to pay one every month or I'm letting my gaming buddies down.
I used to think that way but now I do not think it is just a matter of cash. I think there have been a series of questionable decisions made by the folks at the top and some design decisions that just don't make sense. I don't think they could fix this game even if they tripled their cash and that's my honest take on it...
I think there is a lack of sequence and focus in the game's development. They address issues all over the map, so while they made some fixes to New Player Experience, they then jumped to end game, but no attention to mid game systems, then they drop in a system without it's prerequisites and we are left with a muddled mess.
They need to have a way for players to respec their experience points. There is no incentive to experiment becuase if you do, you're throwing time, experience and real money away. This will take some of the negative feelings out of the New Player Experience whom may be very concerned about spending xp and later find that the feature did not do what it said or it did not combine or slot the way they thought it would. For more experienced characters, Goblin Works has rendered some skills either useless or altered their effects so dramatically that the player chooses to go in a whole new direction.
Each character should start with a respec, and earn a new one every 6 months. Respecs could also be put in the Cash Shop for purchase.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Not
enough bad can be said about this game, at this stage in development.
Every aspect of gameplay, every system, every mechanic has bugs. At
$15/month, they're committing a crime.
World geometry has broken welds.
Combat animations don't play properly. Or at all. For PC's or NPC's.
NPC Pathing is broken, pathing exploits abound. (especially in mountainous terrain)
No emotes. (no animations, no text emotes)
No friend list.
No guild/settlement chat.
Particle effects don't animate or display properly. (and are horrible, to boot!)
Sounds
are ... yeah, for 2 months sound distance was set to -1 so every cast
was heard throughout the entire hex at 100% volume. Sound is terrible
in general, breaks immersion, too quiet, too loud, inappropriate for
attack type, etc.
Combat has incredibly high latency, for
such a simple game. I shudder to think what it will be like with any
actual player load. There is a minimum of 250ms of latency for all attacks, regardless of your actual Internet latency.
GPU load for such a simple game is insanely high. I've never seen a game with such terrible optimization.
There is no water in the rivers. In the "River Kingdoms".
Someone mentioned the world lit by a single bulb. Accurate, and cheesy.
Recent
combat changes completely changed the game (they changed EVERY FEAT),
absolutely no chance of a respec, ever. Kiss that 7+ months of XP
goodbye, you're useless now.
Crowdforging is a facade joke.
They have a plan, and they're developing to that plan, ONLY. What
players want? They're not interested. What would expand the
demographic? They're not interested. What would make actual money?
They're not interested. The amount of ideas expressed on their forums
could be used to make 3 high-pop self sustaining online games. All
ignored.
Horrible forum software. The worst I've ever
seen. No moderation. Toxic behavior encouraged. The way the vets
treat everyone, the devs included? Breaks every TOS/EULA ever on any
moderated forum today.
No details provided on how many
developers are working on the game, ever. What's the number? 2? 3?
They don't have money for even that many with so few subs, but they'll
never tell, because it would crush the fragile community like the
cracked egg it is.
No interiors for buildings (except Inns)
No underground areas for anything.
No dungeons. No interior combat areas of any kind.
No non-lethal combat. (no duels)
PvP
entirely pointless, ganking for the lolz, murder sim at it's finest,
despite specifically stating during Kickstarter it would never be that.
No logging. Very limited scrollback.
Chat interface is an abomination. An intern on a weekend could do better.
No ignore (not on the forums, not in-game)
No mechanics to prevent stalking, harassment, bullying, griefing, etc. None. Zero. A serious problem, completely ignored.
It's
not Eve. It's not Eve with swords. It's not a reasonable hand drawn
facsimile of Eve with swords. There is no comparison you can draw, in
any objective manner, that this game is in any way like Eve save for
one: ganking for the lolz. Hooray?
New players can be killed
by anyone, at any time, even in the starting areas. Ryan has said
multiple times there is no safe zone in PFO, none. Their only guideline
is: We would rather you didn't kill players in the starting village (a
10m circle), but we won't stop you. yeah, that'll keep the new subs
rolling in.
The entire concept of localized banks and auction
houses is crushing the economy instead of encouraging it. As everyone
who has played a game in the past that tried this knows, these concepts
are the gushings of inexperienced armchair theorycrafters. Not proven
industry professionals.
They claim the game is not alpha or
beta, yet make sweeping massive changes that you can only make in alpha
or beta, and retain your customers. Yeah, guess what Ryan? Those
customers you're abusing AND making them pay? They have limits.
8th
grade math can demonstrate how many subs they'll need to keep the
lights on. If daily activity is any indication, they're at a fraction
of a percentage of what they need. This strongly indicates the game is a
slowly rotting corpse, it's just not a skeleton yet. But they'll never
say how many subs they actually have, because that would be the iceberg
that sinks the ship for good.
Finally, you know why people are
paying the sub? Because they hope Ryan will be fired, the design
document will finally be shown to the crowdforging zealots, and they'll
be rewarded for enduring the Trial of Tears. IOW, the only reason
people are paying is the glimmer of hope that $15/mo will pay off,
either in resale of the account, or a complete overhaul of the game in
the future.
IMHO? This game, since Jan 1, 2015, has done nothing but lower the bar for the entire genre, insult the kickstarter backers, and ultimately waste a colossal amount of time for all "customers" involved. And it has permanently harmed the Pathfinder brand, as a bonus.
Comments
So the real quote is "a complete game with limited features"? Not "a complete game just missing non essential features"?
Ok. Do you need me to explain that those two statements mean different things?
Your challenge was to show me some quotes (by Dancey) that validated what YOU wrote. All of what you wrote.
Failure.
Bad Game-Fu is Bad.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
So before I disappear again (from here) I will just write one last post. There is a complete game cycle here in PfO. Advancement is possible from 1 to 20.
*There is an economy of player crafted goods, purchased by players. There is a complete fight, loot, harvest, refine, craft, trade, sell cycle.
*There are mechanics to place "Holdings" in empty hexes to increase your company and settlement's options.
*There is opportunity for banditry.
*There is plenty of opportunity for spies infiltrating player organizations. It is already happening.
*There is one serious ongoing war.
*There is even PVP fatigue, admittedly due to "limited features" like a way to finish a war, technically.
*There are limits to training that are set BY Players according to what their settlements can afford to support. EDIT: this is misleading. There is universal support for levels (ranks) to 20 for all. Individual settlements set the training that they can offer at their location by what they want and can afford to maintain. Currently, you can train anywhere that offers what you need. That is subject to change, so be NICE, make some friends.
*There is PVE. There are a nice variety of PVE mobs requiring different tactics. No, not enough yet.
* There are socially built and maintained player organizations. (The real heart of this game)
*There are deep politics that have been almost a mini game for a few years now.
*Despite contrary statements from estranged current and former supporters, there is crowdforging that actually is different and more impactful than previous sandboxes. Read the GW forums. It is all over them.
There is a game here already. Is it complete? NO. Is it playable? YES. Is it good as is? NOT FOR EVERYONE.
I will say that we have had a nice bump in recruits since the box fee was dropped. AND about 1/2 of them subscribed at the end of their trial (after a few days or the end of trial) when they played with folks from Ozem's Vigil. They must see SOMETHING worth their $14.95/month.
What are you missing right now?
Now back to the game. It eats hours like an addiction and I am wasting time here.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
You probably think that what you wrote here makes you sound more "right," but using an essentially semantic argument and then insulting the other guy to try and back away from your, frankly, embarrassing post makes you look less credible than before.
While those two statements do mean technically different things, the difference is almost negligible. I really don't see how the below statement using the red words is so different than the below statement using the blue word that you would feel like you won some victory in "Game-Fu."
Are you talking about Caldeathe's refusal to aknowledge that Ryan clearly stated that the game was live, complete, playable, and just missing non essential has limited features?
He essentially called your bluff, showed the evidence and you still didn't accept it. And I honestly don't know why it makes you upset. If anything, you should be upset with the way RD handled the situation. To me, it looks like you were sick of people repeating what were, obvious enough to you, lies or half truths. And I think you thought that because it DOES sound ridiculous. But next time, when you call someone else out and they provide evidence to back their position, at the very least, don't try and back away by using semantics, calling them a failure and telling them they are bad at "Game-Fu" (whatever that is).
I deem PO officially dead as of now. When you're so arrogant you deny every review of your garbage game as being "bias" you have lost grip on reality. I think even some of his friends would say PO is below standard on multiple levels.
If 90% of Five Guys customers said the burgers were substandard they wouldn't call them all bias toward Burger King. They would change the product overnight and that's the difference between a smart businessman and an amateur.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Everybody understand like I do, except fanboys, no arguing needed.
And your cyber-hood slang sounds dumb.
Well the review is in, and although the reviewer must have mentioned "crowdforging" and "potential" a dozen times (no possible connection to Ryan's reaching out as described in the OP I am sure) they still got a whopping 4.5 score.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
OOh MYYY...
They would have been better off with my score of 5.5 - 6.0, clearly I was being more generous.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
I tried it...
For 5 minutes.
It actually wouldn't be bad if the animations worked and the characters weren't so clunky.
Did he ever actually join a settlement and play the game? I can't find his review.
Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/
Here is the link, but you can also find it under Features tab:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/719/view/reviews/load/395/Pathfinder-Online-A-Seed-of-Potential-Planted-in-Barren-Soil.html
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
@Mbando,
Im not convinced you would ever be satisfied with the length or depth of a negative review. The reality is, even if he played for two months, would he have found the game any less boring, uninspired, less grindy, or have more value worthy of a full subscription price?
Considering the number of players the game has lost from the Kick Starter pool, I'd say his score would likely have gone lower with more exposure. He likely barely had time or need to have to kill 5000 goblins to advance his weapon skill to x level. He was not there long enough to experience how much a chore settlement management is, or how stale running escalations becomes when he had done them 50 plus times.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
It is not a really bad game but it is not a really good game either.
I think rather than rely on BUYING positive reviews,the developer should put out a spokesman that can tell us why we should play this game over the thousand other choices we have?
Crowdforging is NOT an excuse or reason to play a game,not even 1%,we simply want a game that can be all around fun or offer us something we have not already been there done that a thousand times over.
Anyone that has been around since even the Wow days has likely seen 5000+ quests,i am big time certain i am over 50k quests in all the games i have played.It is sort of mind boggling that devs just don't get it,been there done it a thousand times,not interested anymore,show me SOMETHING creative that took more effort than a simple spreadsheet.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I am going to have to echo what others have said
There is no such thing as a objective review... No one live in a vacuum. The best you can hope for is fair and balanced. But it is still a bit childish to put on the victim cardigan and bemoan how nobody gets your game. Because guess what... That is the life of anyone who have ever had their creative work judged by others. So your game is a special little snowflake that the common man can not understand... Guess what... The common man will give it a poor review. Compound that with most reviwers having anything between a few hours to a few days to grasp the complete image of your complex little snowflake and objective is not only a pipe-dream but downright impossible.
And turning to the people who "understand" your game will NOT give you a objective review... It will in fact produce very much the opposite. It will be much more positive but not objective.
This have been a good conversation
Every time i read that article it gives me a new impression of this guys thought process.I seriously think he is a bit over biased of his game that he can't see the obvious.
It sounds like he bases game quality in "this case" on nothing but ACCESS.He thinks that because he allows some gamer's early access and allows them to say something,that makes a quality game,it is a crazy notion.
Every single game on this planet will have someone or many like it,no matter how bad the game design is.I should make it clear that when i say bad ,i am not talking about opinionated ideas i am talking straight out tech/code/effort in the systems.My point is that you can get a million bottom end developers to just make a game world and dot some mobs around in it and add in some quests,the market is FLOODED with these lazy efforts.
I really think this Goblinworks,thought it was going to be an easy ride and easy sell and some easy money.
It is VERY hard for me to express what is exactly the problem with every single system,i like to keep it simple using the term DEPTH or effort put into the systems.The way i like to say things is put your self in the game,walk around and pay attention to what you are doing,does it really feel fun or just a player going through the relegated motions?
I can give a couple examples.Take a quest put some animation into it,some interaction,some voice overs and no not CHEAP interaction like pull that obvious lever that is right in front of your nose.Put in some destructive walls,particle effects some physics,there is soooooooooo much effort that can go into each aspect of a game it is mind boggling.If you don't put that effort in the game is just a bland shell of what it SHOULD be.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I do find it odd that Paizo sold the license to a team with this poor funding though. Or for that matter that they picked the license for a open world sandbox without levels, there are many leveless pen and paper games that would have worked better for that (like Runequest, Warhammer fantasy, Stormbringer, Gemini and a whole bunch of others) and allowed them to make a game closer to the original. Those license with the possible exception of Warhammer would all be far cheaper as well but most of them are still very well known with pen and paper players. Those who don't play P&P don't know what Pathfinder is anyways.
They need to have a way for players to respec their experience points. There is no incentive to experiment becuase if you do, you're throwing time, experience and real money away. This will take some of the negative feelings out of the New Player Experience whom may be very concerned about spending xp and later find that the feature did not do what it said or it did not combine or slot the way they thought it would. For more experienced characters, Goblin Works has rendered some skills either useless or altered their effects so dramatically that the player chooses to go in a whole new direction.
Each character should start with a respec, and earn a new one every 6 months. Respecs could also be put in the Cash Shop for purchase.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Not enough bad can be said about this game, at this stage in development. Every aspect of gameplay, every system, every mechanic has bugs. At $15/month, they're committing a crime.
- World geometry has broken welds.
- Combat animations don't play properly. Or at all. For PC's or NPC's.
- NPC Pathing is broken, pathing exploits abound. (especially in mountainous terrain)
- No emotes. (no animations, no text emotes)
- No friend list.
- No guild/settlement chat.
- Particle effects don't animate or display properly. (and are horrible, to boot!)
- Sounds
are ... yeah, for 2 months sound distance was set to -1 so every cast
was heard throughout the entire hex at 100% volume. Sound is terrible
in general, breaks immersion, too quiet, too loud, inappropriate for
attack type, etc.
- Combat has incredibly high latency, for
such a simple game. I shudder to think what it will be like with any
actual player load. There is a minimum of 250ms of latency for all attacks, regardless of your actual Internet latency.
- GPU load for such a simple game is insanely high. I've never seen a game with such terrible optimization.
- There is no water in the rivers. In the "River Kingdoms".
- Someone mentioned the world lit by a single bulb. Accurate, and cheesy.
- Recent
combat changes completely changed the game (they changed EVERY FEAT),
absolutely no chance of a respec, ever. Kiss that 7+ months of XP
goodbye, you're useless now.
- Crowdforging is a facade joke.
They have a plan, and they're developing to that plan, ONLY. What
players want? They're not interested. What would expand the
demographic? They're not interested. What would make actual money?
They're not interested. The amount of ideas expressed on their forums
could be used to make 3 high-pop self sustaining online games. All
ignored.
- Horrible forum software. The worst I've ever
seen. No moderation. Toxic behavior encouraged. The way the vets
treat everyone, the devs included? Breaks every TOS/EULA ever on any
moderated forum today.
- No details provided on how many
developers are working on the game, ever. What's the number? 2? 3?
They don't have money for even that many with so few subs, but they'll
never tell, because it would crush the fragile community like the
cracked egg it is.
- No interiors for buildings (except Inns)
- No underground areas for anything.
- No dungeons. No interior combat areas of any kind.
- No non-lethal combat. (no duels)
- PvP
entirely pointless, ganking for the lolz, murder sim at it's finest,
despite specifically stating during Kickstarter it would never be that.
- No logging. Very limited scrollback.
- Chat interface is an abomination. An intern on a weekend could do better.
- No ignore (not on the forums, not in-game)
- No mechanics to prevent stalking, harassment, bullying, griefing, etc. None. Zero. A serious problem, completely ignored.
- It's
not Eve. It's not Eve with swords. It's not a reasonable hand drawn
facsimile of Eve with swords. There is no comparison you can draw, in
any objective manner, that this game is in any way like Eve save for
one: ganking for the lolz. Hooray?
- New players can be killed
by anyone, at any time, even in the starting areas. Ryan has said
multiple times there is no safe zone in PFO, none. Their only guideline
is: We would rather you didn't kill players in the starting village (a
10m circle), but we won't stop you. yeah, that'll keep the new subs
rolling in.
- The entire concept of localized banks and auction
houses is crushing the economy instead of encouraging it. As everyone
who has played a game in the past that tried this knows, these concepts
are the gushings of inexperienced armchair theorycrafters. Not proven
industry professionals.
- They claim the game is not alpha or
beta, yet make sweeping massive changes that you can only make in alpha
or beta, and retain your customers. Yeah, guess what Ryan? Those
customers you're abusing AND making them pay? They have limits.
- 8th
grade math can demonstrate how many subs they'll need to keep the
lights on. If daily activity is any indication, they're at a fraction
of a percentage of what they need. This strongly indicates the game is a
slowly rotting corpse, it's just not a skeleton yet. But they'll never
say how many subs they actually have, because that would be the iceberg
that sinks the ship for good.
- Finally, you know why people are
paying the sub? Because they hope Ryan will be fired, the design
document will finally be shown to the crowdforging zealots, and they'll
be rewarded for enduring the Trial of Tears. IOW, the only reason
people are paying is the glimmer of hope that $15/mo will pay off,
either in resale of the account, or a complete overhaul of the game in
the future.
IMHO? This game, since Jan 1, 2015, has done nothing but lower the bar for the entire genre, insult the kickstarter backers, and ultimately waste a colossal amount of time for all "customers" involved. And it has permanently harmed the Pathfinder brand, as a bonus.All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018