Originally posted by syntax42 Looks like the "skip every other Windows release" rule doesn't apply any more. Windows 10 is shaping up to be worse than 8. Here's hoping some Linux-based OS swoops in to save the day.
Not at all....Windows 10 is shaping up to be better than 7/XP.
Being ignorant to what features you have enabled because you chose "express setup", does not mean the OS itself is "bad"
Just out of curiosity, people are aware that a fairly large number of MMOs, and even non-MMOs, do the same thing and have been doing so for years, right?
Just seems odd that this is suddenly an earth shattering issue when it has been a common, and mostly un-noted, practice, at least in gaming, for eons.
Especially for people who have limited internet caps this sucks.
Never thought about upload caps. I should try to find out what mine is or if i even have one.
A lot of people do have upload and D/L caps. We're lucky as they have been suspended for awhile for us until a pay tier is worked out in others states. But one day I went to the usage screen and I was using an insane amount of data monthly. Their recommended average use was so low it was crazy, probably because they want people to upgrade to a higher level. But looks like it will be 300 GB for monthly data use when the caps are imposed within the next five years.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by DMKano They are not *stealing* anything, it's there written in their terms that every end user agreed to during installation.
TOS will never hold up or protect a company in court, if they are doing something morally or ethically wrong or just overall shady. While companies are always holding them up to defend their actions they secretly hope no one ever lawyers up and challenges them. TOS are like the bogeyman something you always hear about, but no reasonable adult believes in.
Actually false statement more and more click thru TOS are being upheld to be legally binding contracts. It did use to be different but that has begun to change more and more.
First of all, a contract can only be legally binding if it is lawful. Meaning that you don't enter into a contract if it was unlawful in the first place, even if you agreed to it. Technically you can not agree to it but that goes too far for this discussion.
Most TOS are fine but there are some black sheep out there as usual.
---
I give you a famous EULA example concerning Microsoft SQL Server:
"may not without Microsoft's prior written approval disclose to any third party the results of any benchmark test."
Free speech and anti competition laws make this EULA completely invalid.
"Using this product means you will be monitored."
This includes automatic updates, downloading of software to you or changing your files without your knowledge. It's again Microsoft and this is invalid. Invasion of your privacy is never legal even if you agree to it (because legally you can't)
"Do not reverse-engineer this product."
Again, complete nonsense as it restricts you in your fair use rights.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Just out of curiosity, people are aware that a fairly large number of MMOs, and even non-MMOs, do the same thing and have been doing so for years, right?
Just seems odd that this is suddenly an earth shattering issue when it has been a common, and mostly un-noted, practice, at least in gaming, for eons.
Let's see here.
One is a game the other one an operating system that distributes sensitive security patches through a P2P network of other peoples computers.
If that does not set off alarms then i don't know what will.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Just out of curiosity, people are aware that a fairly large number of MMOs, and even non-MMOs, do the same thing and have been doing so for years, right?
Just seems odd that this is suddenly an earth shattering issue when it has been a common, and mostly un-noted, practice, at least in gaming, for eons.
Let's see here.
One is a game the other one an operating system that distributes sensitive security patches through a P2P network of other peoples computers.
If that does not set off alarms then i don't know what will.
You can turn it off. You can even make sure it is never enabled in the first place if you dont click "Express Setup" when installing.
I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
Originally posted by DMKano They are not *stealing* anything, it's there written in their terms that every end user agreed to during installation.
TOS will never hold up or protect a company in court, if they are doing something morally or ethically wrong or just overall shady. While companies are always holding them up to defend their actions they secretly hope no one ever lawyers up and challenges them. TOS are like the bogeyman something you always hear about, but no reasonable adult believes in.
Are you trying to impersonate DMKano or something? The identical avatar and similar name looks suspicious.
Originally posted by Gaeluian Microsoft could be facing a class-action lawsuit, if, people can prove that their data caps were hit during off-times, then, charged by their ISP.
...I guess you missed the part about the feature being "optional"....
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by DMKano They are not *stealing* anything, it's there written in their terms that every end user agreed to during installation.
TOS will never hold up or protect a company in court, if they are doing something morally or ethically wrong or just overall shady. While companies are always holding them up to defend their actions they secretly hope no one ever lawyers up and challenges them. TOS are like the bogeyman something you always hear about, but no reasonable adult believes in.
Are you trying to impersonate DMKano or something? The identical avatar and similar name looks suspicious.
I saw that and thought he was quoting himself at first. nice lulz
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes,
You have to go through 13 screens to opt out of everything privacy related.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Originally posted by DMKano They are not *stealing* anything, it's there written in their terms that every end user agreed to during installation.
TOS will never hold up or protect a company in court, if they are doing something morally or ethically wrong or just overall shady. While companies are always holding them up to defend their actions they secretly hope no one ever lawyers up and challenges them. TOS are like the bogeyman something you always hear about, but no reasonable adult believes in.
Are you trying to impersonate DMKano or something? The identical avatar and similar name looks suspicious.
Thanks. The names and avatars were similar enough that he managed to fool me until I saw your post.
Was happy with Windows 10, but this is such BS Microsoft !
It is distributing Windows 10 like torrents without telling anyone.
It is also distributing apps and security updates like this.
So let's say, you're playing a game, and some kid in your street wants to download apps from Microsoft, or Windows 10, or a massive patch, Microsoft is going to use your PC power and your internet connection to do this, unless you turn the option off in settings.
Especially for people who have limited internet caps this sucks.
People are already complaining about spikes in internet usage of several gigabyte.
You can turn this off in your settings....goto settings then click updates and security, then windows update, click on advanced options, then click "choose how updates are delivered" theres a toggle switch that says "When this is turned on, your PC may also send parts of previously downloaded windows updates and apps to PC's on your local network, or PC's on the internet, depending on what's selected below"
ON/OFF
"get updates from microsoft, and get updates from and send updates to:
PC's on my local network
PC's on my local network, and PC's on the internet.
(each one has a check box, but i just disabled the entire thing.)
Do some digging on the settings before getting all paranoid plz.
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes,
You have to go through 13 screens to opt out of everything privacy related.
The only time that it is more than 2 screens, is if you opted in during the setup....
If you opt in during setup, yes, its a pain in the ass to then opt out...
I guess the fact that you have to opt in in order for it to become a pain is moot for you right? You are just going to keep repeating that disengenious "13 pages" numbers.....
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes,
You have to go through 13 screens to opt out of everything privacy related.
The only time that it is more than 2 screens, is if you opted in during the setup....
If you opt in during setup, yes, its a pain in the ass to then opt out...
I guess the fact that you have to opt in in order for it to become a pain is moot for you right? You are just going to keep repeating that disengenious "13 pages" numbers.....
See myy post above?
also, click settings, then privacy and all of the options are there for you.
Originally posted by DMKano They are not *stealing* anything, it's there written in their terms that every end user agreed to during installation.
TOS will never hold up or protect a company in court, if they are doing something morally or ethically wrong or just overall shady. While companies are always holding them up to defend their actions they secretly hope no one ever lawyers up and challenges them. TOS are like the bogeyman something you always hear about, but no reasonable adult believes in.
Are you trying to impersonate DMKano or something? The identical avatar and similar name looks suspicious.
I saw that and thought he was quoting himself at first. nice lulz
You're being stalked Dm.
Ayo ! Just turn it off .Surely you all don't install things without reading and picking express each time. God I fell ashamed for you. How can you install something as major as an operating system and not read all the options ? The people on this forum are not as computer illiterate as my old mother in law. If you cannot take the time to read this then I guess they should have the default as 'opt out' and you choose to 'opt in' but them is MICROSOFT after all.
The option is easily turned off.....you even have the option of turning it off when first setting up Windows 10.......the only way the option would be on without your knowledge in the first place, is if you let Windows do the "express setup" and utterly closed your eyes to what "features" were being enabled.
How is this even a "thing"?
Why take personal responsibility for something when you can herp derp your way through life blaming your stupidity on other people? I mean, not only is this sort of ignorant behavior allowed, it's encouraged! "It's ok! You're the victim!"
Why go after Microsoft? we should never have caps in the first place data are going get bigger games files are getting better but caps still stay the same and internet company wants caps smaller:).
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes,
You have to go through 13 screens to opt out of everything privacy related.
You make it sound like reaching the 13 screens is an epic quest spanning all 7 continents. It's literally a list on the left hand side of the privacy settings to easily divide the settings into categories. Would you rather all the settings be mashed into one long list?
Originally posted by Octagon7711 I've scene a lot of articles about Microsoft Win 10 privacy issues and how to go through the more then 13 screens to opt out of them.
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes,
You have to go through 13 screens to opt out of everything privacy related.
You make it sound like reaching the 13 screens is an epic quest spanning all 7 continents. It's literally a list on the left hand side of the privacy settings to easily divide the settings into categories. Would you rather all the settings be mashed into one long list?
In my opinion privacy settings (especially taking data from my PC, including P2P downloads) should always be opt-in and never something you first have to opt-out from. Whatever someone takes your data should ALWAYS be a deliberate choice and not something that happens because you where not paying attention during setup. However something for goverments to make laws for.
However in windows 10 it aint that hard to disable them after setup. It's done in a minute or two, that is including reading what you are disablng.
Comments
Not at all....Windows 10 is shaping up to be better than 7/XP.
Being ignorant to what features you have enabled because you chose "express setup", does not mean the OS itself is "bad"
Just out of curiosity, people are aware that a fairly large number of MMOs, and even non-MMOs, do the same thing and have been doing so for years, right?
Just seems odd that this is suddenly an earth shattering issue when it has been a common, and mostly un-noted, practice, at least in gaming, for eons.
A lot of people do have upload and D/L caps. We're lucky as they have been suspended for awhile for us until a pay tier is worked out in others states. But one day I went to the usage screen and I was using an insane amount of data monthly. Their recommended average use was so low it was crazy, probably because they want people to upgrade to a higher level. But looks like it will be 300 GB for monthly data use when the caps are imposed within the next five years.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
First of all, a contract can only be legally binding if it is lawful. Meaning that you don't enter into a contract if it was unlawful in the first place, even if you agreed to it. Technically you can not agree to it but that goes too far for this discussion.
Most TOS are fine but there are some black sheep out there as usual.
---
I give you a famous EULA example concerning Microsoft SQL Server:
"may not without Microsoft's prior written approval disclose to any third party the results of any benchmark test."
Free speech and anti competition laws make this EULA completely invalid.
"Using this product means you will be monitored."
This includes automatic updates, downloading of software to you or changing your files without your knowledge. It's again Microsoft and this is invalid. Invasion of your privacy is never legal even if you agree to it (because legally you can't)
"Do not reverse-engineer this product."
Again, complete nonsense as it restricts you in your fair use rights.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Let's see here.
One is a game the other one an operating system that distributes sensitive security patches through a P2P network of other peoples computers.
If that does not set off alarms then i don't know what will.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
You can turn it off. You can even make sure it is never enabled in the first place if you dont click "Express Setup" when installing.
How is this even a thing?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
More like 2, again, if you don't click the "express setup".
I love how people click "express setup", then complain that all sorts of unwanted features are enabled....
Are you trying to impersonate DMKano or something? The identical avatar and similar name looks suspicious.
...I guess you missed the part about the feature being "optional"....
I've read this in more then one article.
“There is no world in which 45 pages of policy documents and opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes ‘real transparency’.”
The European digital rights organisation (EDRi) sums up the company’s 45 pages of terms and conditions In many ways, however, Windows 10 is merely moving closer towards what has become the new normal thanks to mobile operating systems. Both Siri and Google Now require access to the user’s personal information to personalise responses, while both Apple and Google offer developers the ability to deliver personalised ads to users based on information such as app installs.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/31/windows-10-microsoft-faces-criticism-over-privacy-default-settings
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I saw that and thought he was quoting himself at first. nice lulz
We are talking about disabling features during setup, and you are bringing up the "Terms and Conditions" pages?.....when setting up windows, there are a total of 2 pages of features/privacy actions where Windows asks you if you want to enable or disable them.....peer 2 peer updating is one of them....
You said you needed to go through 13 screens to opt out out, I corrected you in that there are only 2, why in the world are you now bringing up the terms and conditions?
opt-out settings split across 13 different Settings screens and an external website constitutes,
You have to go through 13 screens to opt out of everything privacy related.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Thanks. The names and avatars were similar enough that he managed to fool me until I saw your post.
You can turn this off in your settings....goto settings then click updates and security, then windows update, click on advanced options, then click "choose how updates are delivered" theres a toggle switch that says "When this is turned on, your PC may also send parts of previously downloaded windows updates and apps to PC's on your local network, or PC's on the internet, depending on what's selected below"
ON/OFF
"get updates from microsoft, and get updates from and send updates to:
PC's on my local network
PC's on my local network, and PC's on the internet.
(each one has a check box, but i just disabled the entire thing.)
Do some digging on the settings before getting all paranoid plz.
The only time that it is more than 2 screens, is if you opted in during the setup....
If you opt in during setup, yes, its a pain in the ass to then opt out...
I guess the fact that you have to opt in in order for it to become a pain is moot for you right? You are just going to keep repeating that disengenious "13 pages" numbers.....
See myy post above?
also, click settings, then privacy and all of the options are there for you.
Ayo ! Just turn it off .Surely you all don't install things without reading and picking express each time. God I fell ashamed for you. How can you install something as major as an operating system and not read all the options ? The people on this forum are not as computer illiterate as my old mother in law. If you cannot take the time to read this then I guess they should have the default as 'opt out' and you choose to 'opt in' but them is MICROSOFT after all.
Why take personal responsibility for something when you can herp derp your way through life blaming your stupidity on other people? I mean, not only is this sort of ignorant behavior allowed, it's encouraged! "It's ok! You're the victim!"
You make it sound like reaching the 13 screens is an epic quest spanning all 7 continents. It's literally a list on the left hand side of the privacy settings to easily divide the settings into categories. Would you rather all the settings be mashed into one long list?
What's so hard about this?
I will, however, agree that it's bullshit that some settings are here: https://choice.microsoft.com/en-gb/opt-out
Lmao....'ZOMG 13 PAGESSSSSSSS"....all in 1 easy to navigate list....
This pretty much sums up this entire thread lol.
In my opinion privacy settings (especially taking data from my PC, including P2P downloads) should always be opt-in and never something you first have to opt-out from. Whatever someone takes your data should ALWAYS be a deliberate choice and not something that happens because you where not paying attention during setup. However something for goverments to make laws for.
However in windows 10 it aint that hard to disable them after setup. It's done in a minute or two, that is including reading what you are disablng.