Back in 2005 when I started playing there was what? 50k or 60k. Back in these days the game wasn't feeling empty, there was allways a war going on somewhere and CCP didn't loose money.
EvE can shrink to 250k subs without problems and still be profitable for CCP. 250k subs can easily populate New Eden without it feeling empty, and those numbers are also big enough to wage huge wars and fights with thousands involved.
So yeah, I'm not seeing any problems there. I would start worrying, if EvE would dip below the 250k mark, but the currently estimated 350k are far from it.
How do the vets with their enormous time and money investments in Eve Online feel with the direction the game is going? I played for 5 years, and quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items. I knew CCP had switched it's business model to milking the remaining playerbase of a game on it's last leg.
I still read all the patch notes and have been waiting for a reason to come back. But all I see are these UI updates nobody wants and small changes and fixes. CCP must have a much smaller dev team now because I remember them capable of producing content faster when I was still playing.
They didn't even talk about project legion at the last fanfest. Not even a small update. Are the abandoning that like they did with walking in stations and world of darkness? If they integrated FPS combat into Eve with Project Legion it could bring many players back but they choose not to even talk about it?
CCP betrayed it's playerbase on multiple occasions. CCP disrespected its playerbase on multiple occasions. CCP acted in a very biased fashion towards first BoB and then Goons. CCP failed to police its game and or correct deficiencies in power creep / bugs.
These things are the primary reasons EvE failed to grow. While some can pretend a lack of growth is no big deal it is in any commercial product. Negative growth is worse obviously.
CCP rectified with the player base and did a darn good job of working on the space game and working on the UI since the protest and the other issues mentioned. However, I am still waiting for PI to be completed On the flip side- because of CCP's track record prior to Dust514 and WoD people held them to a higher standard. Because of this, CCP will always have a uphill battle when working or releasing their games. Eve is still a damn good game.
In terms of Project Legion aka Dust 514. If CCP blows off the PC base I can assume that will be a major hit for them. CCP's lack of communication on the status of PL is pretty bad.
CCP didn't rectify with the playerbase. The protest was not the playerbase it was a small segment of the playerbase (alliances). One alliance email - go shoot the indestructible monument because I don't like it and cancel your accounts for a month.
The majority of the playerbase wasn't involved.
Since then and before then they've worked tirelessly with subscriptions to benefit that same small group while largely ignoring everyone else.
I have played EvE from 2003 and I know what EvE was meant to be and what it was sold as when it launched. It was an awesome game based on a gritty harsh universe. CCP allowed it to go from gritty and harsh to Somethingaweful in space. It's why the majority of us vets left.
Some say there's no griefing in EvE then proceed to give information on how to avoid griefing in EvE.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I left the Eve years ago and took my three accounts with me, CCP had a great game when it first released then it morphed into the POS that it is. I will never get as invested in a game as I had with Eve, frankly I look forward to the day the plug gets pulled.
F0URTWENTY said: ...quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items.
Yeah that's when I quit too. I love EvE think it's the best MMO out there, but it's very time and effort intensive. A game you sink years into, and after Incarna and how it was handled, I just didn't have faith that CCP wouldn't make that investment of time and effort a waste.
I left the Eve years ago and took my three accounts with me, CCP had a great game when it first released then it morphed into the POS that it is. I will never get as invested in a game as I had with Eve, frankly I look forward to the day the plug gets pulled.
Or we could let people continue to enjoy it for what it is? Ah, my mistake, forgot where I was for a second. The magical lands of self-importance.
F0URTWENTY said: ...quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items.
Yeah that's when I quit too. I love EvE think it's the best MMO out there, but it's very time and effort intensive. A game you sink years into, and after Incarna and how it was handled, I just didn't have faith that CCP wouldn't make that investment of time and effort a waste.
Yet, over 4 years has passed since Incarna went live, and EVE is still going strong.
Sure, has lost some population, and CCP continues with some mis-steps (but then hindsight is 20-20) but overall the game is still very enjoyable to play and I definitely do it pretty casually, though of course some activities aren't for me. (like large scale fleet battles)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE is NOT for new players. The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE. They made billions and it takes money to make money. New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
EVE is NOT for new players. The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE. They made billions and it takes money to make money. New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
EVE is very easy for new players. As a member of Spectre Fleet, the game's leading NPSI community, we take in new players turn them into PVP'ers within weeks of them joining the game. EVE University and Red vs Blue are also extremely receptive to new players, although RVB is a bit of a mess since Mangala quit the game a year ago.
For several years Brave Collective was also, as the name should point out, a very influential corp/alliance made of almost nothing but new players... until they imploded last month, which is really too bad. Brave Newbie still exist if you want to be a Caldari Squid newbro.
Not only that, but if you're resourceful and smart, then you can make billions of ISK in your first few months and then buy an older character that has more of the skills you want or need.
EVE is NOT for new players. The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE. They made billions and it takes money to make money. New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
I have to disagree, Brave Newbies proved this argument wrong a few years ago, others continue to do so today. I'm in a null sec corp with many newer players (less than 4 years) and we're allied of course with some long time players.
Still plenty of room for others to join in, primarily because many older players retire leaving room for new blood to establish themselves.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE is NOT for new players. The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE. They made billions and it takes money to make money. New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
I have to disagree, Brave Newbies proved this argument wrong a few years ago, others continue to do so today. I'm in a null sec corp with many newer players (less than 4 years) and we're allied of course with some long time players.
Still plenty of room for others to join in, primarily because many older players retire leaving room for new blood to establish themselves.
Hilarious, you consider people that have 4 year old characters "new"
This game is completely enjoyable by a perfectly new player.. it has been proven time and time again .. why the same old song and dance people ..
and Ikono Ive been ganked one time in 3 years .. one time .. all the rest of the times Ive died I was out looking for a fight .. either PVE or PVP .. this game is not that restrictive for new players to find a niche and enjoy
the propaganda has to stop lol .. you guys might actually turn away someone who could love this game because you don't like it or don't like parts of the community or the mechanics ..
I will add this caveat .. it is a game that requires some study and mental acuity to succeed .. this is not WoW where button mashing and random LFG'ing will slowly elevate you to the top
I love how people say it's not griefing because you are supposed to do 99 steps to ensure your safety at all times. It's like me saying I never get ganked in eve because I take the precaution of not playing it.
I love how people say it's not griefing because you are supposed to do 99 steps to ensure your safety at all times. It's like me saying I never get ganked in eve because I take the precaution of not playing it.
More like five or six steps probably with step one being "not a retard". Second step: having situational awareness.Which is too much for most MMORPG'ers to hang with. Because they're retards. Retards who want to faceroll all content and have nothing scary that might hurt them. =( If you get truly ganked in EVE it's your own fault and can be completely avoided most of the time. If someone does kill you in EVE, there are no hard feelings. You can start a private chat window with them and 9 times out of 10 you get a o/ and they're happy to tell you how you could've avoided getting killed. Not saying it's all roses and fluffy bunnies in EVE but it's just not nearly as bad as people make it seem.
Re-vamp the combat to something after 2012 and the game would be viable again. As it is now, its clunky and sucks. (Think Elite: Dangerous but within EVE.) I want to fly my ship. Not point and click.
Also. the whole time lag thing kills it. I don't want to wait 10 minutes to find out I'm dead. I wanna be dead NOW!
Vets quit at some point -can't play till old age- , new players find the game too difficult and compare it to a simple MMO like WoW, which is maxed out in 1 day without challenge or tactics. So they die, quit , uninstall and move on.
There is your reason.
Well no not really, I played eve for more than 5 years and I have played other non EVE mmo's. So lets look at just EVE because CCP wants EVE to be different.
1. PVE has become less of PVE and more PVE but you may get ganked in the middle of it or you may get Jita burned. EVE players think the Burning of Jita was cool. From a players taking control of a game it was but for the guy who lost his Drake Blueprint it Really SUCKED!
2. The longer you have played EVE the better you are at EVE. This is not a skill based game. It is a time based learning game. Yes people who are better gamers who have played the same length of time as me are better than me but Joe New guy has no chance in a fight against me in a frigate after 6 months in game. That's not learning curve that's game mechanics.
3. EVE has a Ridiculously high learning curve and no official place to learn this. You MUST go to your corporation mates to learn. This makes EVE very difficult to learn as a solo player. A great number of Casual MMO players are solo gamers because of time commitments.
4.EVE is not a game for Solo Gamers. Period Freaking DOT.
5. EVE Can be filled at times filled with power crazed L33t I am better than you A55hats. See Goonswarm from the old days.(not today but in the old days)
6. CCP Promotes the Big Scams that have happened and they are allowed by the TOS. This can be cool because it makes EVE a more realistic game. But EVE is a GAME not real life and people who are scammed are pissed off.
7. I can play other MMO's and be challenged for awhile like levelling up a new toon to get my gear etc and raiding with my friends. If I like this pattern or IP I may stay or find another MMO. The pattern is kind of Circular for me and I have about 5 games I do it with. But I only pay for them when I am playing them. EVE is different no matter what I do my gunnery doesn't get better no matter how many PVP kills I get it just matters how many months I pay for. If I added EVE to my Circle of Games I play I would have to continue paying for it or I would never catch back up with my friends. This is called PAY TO WIN. EVE has always been PAY TO WIN.
8. EVE lets you Buy Someone Elses account. This is called Pay To Win!
its trend to all MMO not only eve or wow Easy understand , you can blame Mobas(yes dota/lol)
People usual do excuses ""not have enough time anymore"" but still play 18h facebook chat! simulator or CandyCrush or any other crapy mobile its rare people realy have no time
Most one realize dont want burn life in hardcore games like Eve or Mortal or any other sandbox with aproach realism
Vets quit at some point -can't play till old age- , new players find the game too difficult and compare it to a simple MMO like WoW, which is maxed out in 1 day without challenge or tactics. So they die, quit , uninstall and move on.
There is your reason.
Well no not really, I played eve for more than 5 years and I have played other non EVE mmo's. So lets look at just EVE because CCP wants EVE to be different.
1. PVE has become less of PVE and more PVE but you may get ganked in the middle of it or you may get Jita burned. EVE players think the Burning of Jita was cool. From a players taking control of a game it was but for the guy who lost his Drake Blueprint it Really SUCKED!
2. The longer you have played EVE the better you are at EVE. This is not a skill based game. It is a time based learning game. Yes people who are better gamers who have played the same length of time as me are better than me but Joe New guy has no chance in a fight against me in a frigate after 6 months in game. That's not learning curve that's game mechanics.
3. EVE has a Ridiculously high learning curve and no official place to learn this. You MUST go to your corporation mates to learn. This makes EVE very difficult to learn as a solo player. A great number of Casual MMO players are solo gamers because of time commitments.
4.EVE is not a game for Solo Gamers. Period Freaking DOT.
5. EVE Can be filled at times filled with power crazed L33t I am better than you A55hats. See Goonswarm from the old days.(not today but in the old days)
6. CCP Promotes the Big Scams that have happened and they are allowed by the TOS. This can be cool because it makes EVE a more realistic game. But EVE is a GAME not real life and people who are scammed are pissed off.
7. I can play other MMO's and be challenged for awhile like levelling up a new toon to get my gear etc and raiding with my friends. If I like this pattern or IP I may stay or find another MMO. The pattern is kind of Circular for me and I have about 5 games I do it with. But I only pay for them when I am playing them. EVE is different no matter what I do my gunnery doesn't get better no matter how many PVP kills I get it just matters how many months I pay for. If I added EVE to my Circle of Games I play I would have to continue paying for it or I would never catch back up with my friends. This is called PAY TO WIN. EVE has always been PAY TO WIN.
8. EVE lets you Buy Someone Elses account. This is called Pay To Win!
Most of this is fairly inaccurate.
1. Nothing new about this. It has never not been this way.
2. This is almost entirely false. The longer you've played Eve the more diverse you are, but there's a hard limit on the number of skill points that can be applied at any given time. Engagement envelope is the single most important factor, and that's largely based on ship choice and fitting decisions - not SPs (at over 120 million, I most commonly solo PvP in T2-fit tech 1 frigates and the occasional T2 frigate. Training a newb to 95% of my current efficacy in these ships would not take long at all).
3. I'll give you the learning curve. Problematically, this is part of why people believe 2 to be true.
4. Plenty of aspects of Eve work just fine solo. You can't hold Sov, perhaps, but you also can't do at-level raids solo in other games.
5. Not really sure how this matters to the type of player you're largely talking about (Solo carebears).
6. "I'm mad at the game because I did something stupid, bloobloobloo!"
7+8. See 2. You don't have to "catch up" - the efficacy model simply does not work that way. This is baggage that people bring with them from other games, where you "level up" and each subsequent level is objectively stronger than the last. Every new Eve player thinks they need to "level up" from a frigate to a cruiser to a battleship, because that most closely approximates what they are used to. Then they get into their battleship, and I come along in a frigate and reduce it to scrap for lulz.
Really, the more salient contributing factors are likely:
-It's now possible to effectively train alts on a single account, reducing much of the need for a second account for people who want a trained alt.
-Lots of butthurt about capital ship jump fatigue and sov changes. Especially given that capital ship pilots are often specifically trained alts, the devaluation of capital ships has likely lead to some alts that are less frequently logged in or unsubbed entirely.
There are many reasons for this and one of them is the developers embracing of the marketing slogan "Be the Bad Guy". Over the years empire space has gotten more and more dangerous which makes mining, trading, mission running and other non-pvp activities less appealing to players. CCP continues to try and build PR by releasing stories of people losing vast amounts of real money in scams. Who wants to play a game where everyone is looking to scam you?
Bottom line, PVP focused games do not attract players like other games do. If you look at DarkFall, Mortal Online, Archeage and any other MMO that focuses on PVP you find way less players than games that have PVP but only on request, such as WoW and TOR. All CCP has to do is make empire space a little safer but they have this chip on their shoulder that their game has to be ruthless everywhere. CCP Falcon said this:
"Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.
Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent."
Eve wont die but as they continue to make the game more ruthless and encourage scamming, and other empire-based aggression, it will continue to lose population and become more of a niche game. Sad really when you think this game was up to over 400k subscribers at one time.
As I said, this in not the only reason for the decline. Vets moving on to other games like Elite, high barrier to entry with the drastic learning curve, the normal summer slowdown and other factors are also a part of this issue.
Good summery. I don't have a thing against being able to be killed in empire. But the game wasn't always so ruthless, either. The community got extremely toxic which I can see the fun in it for some. But it got way out of control which was supported by the developers. It wasn't always that bad. Not rose tented glasses. Looking back when EnB closed down. Joined around the same time. It's CCP's game and I have no problems with their path. Respect for being different. But it's a far cry from what I enjoy about it. PVE sucks balls. I like a good mix. I love space. I love naval warfare like CCP had.
I don't trust random groups ever. Matter of fact I don't trust anyone in that game and that's tiresome, exhausting to be looking over your shoulder constantly. I trusted people that I moved to that game with but once everyone went their own ways that was it. I started out in nulsec because of people that I trusted. Years later I was just flying my pve ships. Which I never lost a one. I had a loot pinata well worth what it would take to pop it and that wasn't much. Not because I couldn't but because I was a hard target when flying them. Insta docks / undocks. insta gate jumps. Not letting anyone in the same area as me. If I saw someone scan my mission down. I left. Never sat on jump gates in missions. It was tiresome to always be watching over my back. Being vulnerable to the point that if I talked in chat I might attract the wrong type of attention. So I never talked for the most part. I guess it felt more like a job rather than fun to me in the end. I wouldn't have minded going into a large alliance as a grunt for fleet action. But the process was stupid to say the least thanks to the meta and past events. I personally got tired of real time training. I wanted to speed my characters training up. I can now. Thanks to the character market but meh.
I enjoy reading about what happens in Eve sometimes. But I have no wish to play it anymore. A lot of it is the community the meta. the environment. I get it. A large group of people like that sort of thing. Good. glad they got a developer who promotes it. It's just not for me.
1. Nothing new about this. It has never not been this way.
2. This is almost entirely false. The longer you've played Eve the more diverse you are, but there's a hard limit on the number of skill points that can be applied at any given time. Engagement envelope is the single most important factor, and that's largely based on ship choice and fitting decisions - not SPs (at over 120 million, I most commonly solo PvP in T2-fit tech 1 frigates and the occasional T2 frigate. Training a newb to 95% of my current efficacy in these ships would not take long at all).
3. I'll give you the learning curve. Problematically, this is part of why people believe 2 to be true.
4. Plenty of aspects of Eve work just fine solo. You can't hold Sov, perhaps, but you also can't do at-level raids solo in other games.
5. Not really sure how this matters to the type of player you're largely talking about (Solo carebears).
6. "I'm mad at the game because I did something stupid, bloobloobloo!"
7+8. See 2. You don't have to "catch up" - the efficacy model simply does not work that way. This is baggage that people bring with them from other games, where you "level up" and each subsequent level is objectively stronger than the last. Every new Eve player thinks they need to "level up" from a frigate to a cruiser to a battleship, because that most closely approximates what they are used to. Then they get into their battleship, and I come along in a frigate and reduce it to scrap for lulz.
Really, the more salient contributing factors are likely:
-It's now possible to effectively train alts on a single account, reducing much of the need for a second account for people who want a trained alt.
-Lots of butthurt about capital ship jump fatigue and sov changes. Especially given that capital ship pilots are often specifically trained alts, the devaluation of capital ships has likely lead to some alts that are less frequently logged in or unsubbed entirely.
Okay well most of it is inaccurate to you because you are # 5 in my example as I will point out in a moment. But first to answer your questions.
1. Yes this is new EVE was a place where there was a place for PVE players who wanted to exploit safe High Sec space and did for a long time and where manufacturers and traders and made money as brokers. You call them "Care Bears" because the choice of game that EVE made available to them that they chose to play was NOT PVP. I'm sorry but this was a viable choice for a long time and people enjoyed messing with the economy and working with the Null Sec Corps to control the prices of rare metals etc by brokering them and letting the Null Sec people do what they did best which was PVP in Null sec.
2. You use your # 7 to illustrate my point. Because you have way more skill points you reduce them to scrap in a frigate and you have done the spreadsheet required mathematics that someone in your Corp taught you. If you most commonly PVP in a T1 Frigate I have no idea why or where you are fighting and given the advantages of every tier 2 frigate over a tier one you are either tackling with a substandard frig or don't have a reimbursement policy for using a fast t2 to tackle with. Either way your are going to die fast if you are fighting in a fleet engagement. If not then whoever is fighting you in low sec space ought to be owning you with drones.
3. We agree. The learning curve without a corp or friends is nigh unto impossible to learn. Spreadsheets only teach you so much.
4. Given the learning curve NONE of EVE works fine solo as you get GANKED out of existence without someone to teach you. Playing solo in High Sec Space is a sure way to die as pointed out by MANY people who have posted here. That's what happens when you party naked and do not post a guard is a saying of many people that mine.
5. People just like you! People that think anyone playing EVE except the way you play it are care bears and thus lesser human beings and not deserving of playing the game. CCP has finally agreed with you and look what happened their numbers dropped. All those Carebears, Mission Runners, and Miners, in high sec space punched eject.
6. No I'm Really mad cause nobody explained to me that people could do this cause nobody reads the TOS. In MOST games this is against the rules. CCP celebrates players getting screwed. This is NOT a good way to entice NEW players. Don't care if they were dumb or not. I see a game where this happens I am not going to play if the developer is encouraging an exploit or in the Case of Band of Brothers the Developers is found to be actively cheating to help them.
7&8. Your arguments here are ridiculous and don't hold water as you point out yourself. I cannot keep up with my friends who are now flying capitals if I am not in game or just paying for my account and updating skills. EVE is Pay to WIN or Pay To Advance.
All of that said. Eve can be a dynamic and fun place to PVP and you can have a blast after about $150.00 investment. That's about a year in game. But the PVE aspect of the game is gone. NULL-SEC is Controlled by Big NAP's and is no Longer the War-Zone it constantly was. Rooks and Kings are the best example of what EVE can Be for a person who wants to PVP go google their videos. They truly play Null Sec PVP as it Used to be.
Okay well most of it is inaccurate to you because you are # 5 in my example as I will point out in a moment. But first to answer your questions.
1. Yes this is new EVE was a place where there was a place for PVE players who wanted to exploit safe High Sec space and did for a long time and where manufacturers and traders and made money as brokers. You call them "Care Bears" because the choice of game that EVE made available to them that they chose to play was NOT PVP. I'm sorry but this was a viable choice for a long time and people enjoyed messing with the economy and working with the Null Sec Corps to control the prices of rare metals etc by brokering them and letting the Null Sec people do what they did best which was PVP in Null sec.
2. You use your # 7 to illustrate my point. Because you have way more skill points you reduce them to scrap in a frigate and you have done the spreadsheet required mathematics that someone in your Corp taught you. If you most commonly PVP in a T1 Frigate I have no idea why or where you are fighting and given the advantages of every tier 2 frigate over a tier one you are either tackling with a substandard frig or don't have a reimbursement policy for using a fast t2 to tackle with. Either way your are going to die fast if you are fighting in a fleet engagement. If not then whoever is fighting you in low sec space ought to be owning you with drones.
3. We agree. The learning curve without a corp or friends is nigh unto impossible to learn. Spreadsheets only teach you so much.
4. Given the learning curve NONE of EVE works fine solo as you get GANKED out of existence without someone to teach you. Playing solo in High Sec Space is a sure way to die as pointed out by MANY people who have posted here. That's what happens when you party naked and do not post a guard is a saying of many people that mine.
5. People just like you! People that think anyone playing EVE except the way you play it are care bears and thus lesser human beings and not deserving of playing the game. CCP has finally agreed with you and look what happened their numbers dropped. All those Carebears, Mission Runners, and Miners, in high sec space punched eject.
6. No I'm Really mad cause nobody explained to me that people could do this cause nobody reads the TOS. In MOST games this is against the rules. CCP celebrates players getting screwed. This is NOT a good way to entice NEW players. Don't care if they were dumb or not. I see a game where this happens I am not going to play if the developer is encouraging an exploit or in the Case of Band of Brothers the Developers is found to be actively cheating to help them.
7&8. Your arguments here are ridiculous and don't hold water as you point out yourself. I cannot keep up with my friends who are now flying capitals if I am not in game or just paying for my account and updating skills. EVE is Pay to WIN or Pay To Advance.
All of that said. Eve can be a dynamic and fun place to PVP and you can have a blast after about $150.00 investment. That's about a year in game. But the PVE aspect of the game is gone. NULL-SEC is Controlled by Big NAP's and is no Longer the War-Zone it constantly was. Rooks and Kings are the best example of what EVE can Be for a person who wants to PVP go google their videos. They truly play Null Sec PVP as it Used to be.
1. Huh? I still make most of my income from high-sec trade and industry. High sec has NEVER been safe at any point in Eve's lifespan (it is, in fact, far safer now, from a mechanical perspective, than it has been for most of Eve's life). Eve has never had a "no pvp" option, short of never undocking.
2. I've never been in a corp with more than a handful of other people, and all RL friends I brought to the game. I learned how to do math in gradeschool . Maybe you haven't played in a long time, but T1 frigates are quite formidable now, (especially pirate ones). I win fights by knowing my engagement envelope. I quite cheerfully slag several T2 frigates in a breacher. Retribution? No problem, toss on a tracking disruptor and get in close, he only has 2 mid slots. No webs for him. Vengeance? Hells-to-the-no. Hawk or Harpy? Not going anywhere near that Hawk, but the harpy? Maybe, if I can get a look at him, and he's rocking railguns, and I can figure out a way to get on top of him. Jags and Wolfs I'll try out no matter what, Ishkur and Enyo are a big no-thank-you, sir. The same assessment applies for Navy frigates (Slicers are a free kill after swapping out my AB for a MWD, comets are sketchy, an autocannon fit Firetail is a free kill, a double-web artillery Firetail will wreck me, and a Hookbill I won't go anywhere near), T1 and even T2 cruisers. Maller? Sure. Vexor? Nope. None of these outcomes are significantly contingent on SP. Same applies for battleships getting fragged by frigates.
What's a mission-running Megathron going to do to me if I roll up on him with an Ishkur? I don't need 10 years worth of SP to maximize an Ishkur, and I don't even remotely need a maximized Ishkur (and, bearing in mind that a HUGE chunk of that SP for a "maximized" one is only going to be in that last few level 5s accounting for extremely marginal performance improvements) to make a Mega go pop.
4. Oh for FFS, high sec ganking of randoms is exceedingly rare. It happens to: -Undertanked exhumers. -People hauling excessive amounts of cargo in flimsy ships. -Stupid mission runners who get baited and open fire thinking the tiny frigate can't possibly be a threat to their big bad battleship.
Nobody is out suicide ganking to incur a loss. You can trivially prevent it from ever happening.
5. lolwut. They've been making it progressively safer and scrub-friendly for years now... and their numbers dropped. Christ, they even have a SAFETY to prevent accidental Concordokken, now.
6. So a dev was busted, what, like 8 years ago now? And, consequently, he was fired. And you're still sore over that? Really? And it's the game's fault you didn't make yourself aware of the rules?
7&8: Why would you NEED to keep up with your friends? What does it matter if they're in capital ships? Is that all they ever fly? Do they use them without dictor/hictor/ceptor/bomber support? Can't find room for a T3 cruiser in there? There's nothing to "keep up" with. You play to a role.
Comments
Back in 2005 when I started playing there was what? 50k or 60k. Back in these days the game wasn't feeling empty, there was allways a war going on somewhere and CCP didn't loose money.
EvE can shrink to 250k subs without problems and still be profitable for CCP. 250k subs can easily populate New Eden without it feeling empty, and those numbers are also big enough to wage huge wars and fights with thousands involved.
So yeah, I'm not seeing any problems there. I would start worrying, if EvE would dip below the 250k mark, but the currently estimated 350k are far from it.
These things are the primary reasons EvE failed to grow. While some can pretend a lack of growth is no big deal it is in any commercial product. Negative growth is worse obviously.
In terms of Project Legion aka Dust 514. If CCP blows off the PC base I can assume that will be a major hit for them. CCP's lack of communication on the status of PL is pretty bad.
The majority of the playerbase wasn't involved.
Since then and before then they've worked tirelessly with subscriptions to benefit that same small group while largely ignoring everyone else.
I have played EvE from 2003 and I know what EvE was meant to be and what it was sold as when it launched. It was an awesome game based on a gritty harsh universe. CCP allowed it to go from gritty and harsh to Somethingaweful in space. It's why the majority of us vets left.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Sure, has lost some population, and CCP continues with some mis-steps (but then hindsight is 20-20) but overall the game is still very enjoyable to play and I definitely do it pretty casually, though of course some activities aren't for me. (like large scale fleet battles)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The long time existing player base will continue to have fun because they played the game back when it was new player friendly, i.e. at the beginning of the GREAT RACE.
They made billions and it takes money to make money.
New players need not apply as they are cannon fodder to the Old Guard.
For several years Brave Collective was also, as the name should point out, a very influential corp/alliance made of almost nothing but new players... until they imploded last month, which is really too bad. Brave Newbie still exist if you want to be a Caldari Squid newbro.
Not only that, but if you're resourceful and smart, then you can make billions of ISK in your first few months and then buy an older character that has more of the skills you want or need.
Still plenty of room for others to join in, primarily because many older players retire leaving room for new blood to establish themselves.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
that proves a point, I think. . .
Unfortunately that hat alliance base is very keen on ganking / meta gaming which drives new players away.
Then you have natural attrition, the core gamers are getting older, have multiple accounts and when they quit CCP loses multiple subs.
Thats a lose lose scenario. Reduced new subs and multiple sub attrition.
and Ikono Ive been ganked one time in 3 years .. one time .. all the rest of the times Ive died I was out looking for a fight .. either PVE or PVP .. this game is not that restrictive for new players to find a niche and enjoy
the propaganda has to stop lol .. you guys might actually turn away someone who could love this game because you don't like it or don't like parts of the community or the mechanics ..
I will add this caveat .. it is a game that requires some study and mental acuity to succeed .. this is not WoW where button mashing and random LFG'ing will slowly elevate you to the top
It's like me saying I never get ganked in eve because I take the precaution of not playing it.
If you get truly ganked in EVE it's your own fault and can be completely avoided most of the time. If someone does kill you in EVE, there are no hard feelings. You can start a private chat window with them and 9 times out of 10 you get a o/ and they're happy to tell you how you could've avoided getting killed.
Not saying it's all roses and fluffy bunnies in EVE but it's just not nearly as bad as people make it seem.
Also. the whole time lag thing kills it. I don't want to wait 10 minutes to find out I'm dead. I wanna be dead NOW!
1. PVE has become less of PVE and more PVE but you may get ganked in the middle of it or you may get Jita burned. EVE players think the Burning of Jita was cool. From a players taking control of a game it was but for the guy who lost his Drake Blueprint it Really SUCKED!
2. The longer you have played EVE the better you are at EVE. This is not a skill based game. It is a time based learning game. Yes people who are better gamers who have played the same length of time as me are better than me but Joe New guy has no chance in a fight against me in a frigate after 6 months in game. That's not learning curve that's game mechanics.
3. EVE has a Ridiculously high learning curve and no official place to learn this. You MUST go to your corporation mates to learn. This makes EVE very difficult to learn as a solo player. A great number of Casual MMO players are solo gamers because of time commitments.
4.EVE is not a game for Solo Gamers. Period Freaking DOT.
5. EVE Can be filled at times filled with power crazed L33t I am better than you A55hats. See Goonswarm from the old days.(not today but in the old days)
6. CCP Promotes the Big Scams that have happened and they are allowed by the TOS. This can be cool because it makes EVE a more realistic game. But EVE is a GAME not real life and people who are scammed are pissed off.
7. I can play other MMO's and be challenged for awhile like levelling up a new toon to get my gear etc and raiding with my friends. If I like this pattern or IP I may stay or find another MMO. The pattern is kind of Circular for me and I have about 5 games I do it with. But I only pay for them when I am playing them.
EVE is different no matter what I do my gunnery doesn't get better no matter how many PVP kills I get it just matters how many months I pay for. If I added EVE to my Circle of Games I play I would have to continue paying for it or I would never catch back up with my friends. This is called PAY TO WIN. EVE has always been PAY TO WIN.
8. EVE lets you Buy Someone Elses account. This is called Pay To Win!
Easy understand , you can blame Mobas(yes dota/lol)
People usual do excuses ""not have enough time anymore"" but still play 18h facebook chat! simulator
or CandyCrush or any other crapy mobile its rare people realy have no time
Most one realize dont want burn life in hardcore games like Eve or Mortal or any other sandbox with aproach realism
1. Nothing new about this. It has never not been this way.
2. This is almost entirely false. The longer you've played Eve the more diverse you are, but there's a hard limit on the number of skill points that can be applied at any given time. Engagement envelope is the single most important factor, and that's largely based on ship choice and fitting decisions - not SPs (at over 120 million, I most commonly solo PvP in T2-fit tech 1 frigates and the occasional T2 frigate. Training a newb to 95% of my current efficacy in these ships would not take long at all).
3. I'll give you the learning curve. Problematically, this is part of why people believe 2 to be true.
4. Plenty of aspects of Eve work just fine solo. You can't hold Sov, perhaps, but you also can't do at-level raids solo in other games.
5. Not really sure how this matters to the type of player you're largely talking about (Solo carebears).
6. "I'm mad at the game because I did something stupid, bloobloobloo!"
7+8. See 2. You don't have to "catch up" - the efficacy model simply does not work that way. This is baggage that people bring with them from other games, where you "level up" and each subsequent level is objectively stronger than the last. Every new Eve player thinks they need to "level up" from a frigate to a cruiser to a battleship, because that most closely approximates what they are used to. Then they get into their battleship, and I come along in a frigate and reduce it to scrap for lulz.
Really, the more salient contributing factors are likely:
-It's now possible to effectively train alts on a single account, reducing much of the need for a second account for people who want a trained alt.
-Lots of butthurt about capital ship jump fatigue and sov changes. Especially given that capital ship pilots are often specifically trained alts, the devaluation of capital ships has likely lead to some alts that are less frequently logged in or unsubbed entirely.
I don't trust random groups ever. Matter of fact I don't trust anyone in that game and that's tiresome, exhausting to be looking over your shoulder constantly. I trusted people that I moved to that game with but once everyone went their own ways that was it. I started out in nulsec because of people that I trusted. Years later I was just flying my pve ships. Which I never lost a one. I had a loot pinata well worth what it would take to pop it and that wasn't much. Not because I couldn't but because I was a hard target when flying them. Insta docks / undocks. insta gate jumps. Not letting anyone in the same area as me. If I saw someone scan my mission down. I left. Never sat on jump gates in missions. It was tiresome to always be watching over my back. Being vulnerable to the point that if I talked in chat I might attract the wrong type of attention. So I never talked for the most part. I guess it felt more like a job rather than fun to me in the end. I wouldn't have minded going into a large alliance as a grunt for fleet action. But the process was stupid to say the least thanks to the meta and past events. I personally got tired of real time training. I wanted to speed my characters training up. I can now. Thanks to the character market but meh.
I enjoy reading about what happens in Eve sometimes. But I have no wish to play it anymore. A lot of it is the community the meta. the environment. I get it. A large group of people like that sort of thing. Good. glad they got a developer who promotes it. It's just not for me.
1. Yes this is new EVE was a place where there was a place for PVE players who wanted to exploit safe High Sec space and did for a long time and where manufacturers and traders and made money as brokers. You call them "Care Bears" because the choice of game that EVE made available to them that they chose to play was NOT PVP. I'm sorry but this was a viable choice for a long time and people enjoyed messing with the economy and working with the Null Sec Corps to control the prices of rare metals etc by brokering them and letting the Null Sec people do what they did best which was PVP in Null sec.
2. You use your # 7 to illustrate my point. Because you have way more skill points you reduce them to scrap in a frigate and you have done the spreadsheet required mathematics that someone in your Corp taught you. If you most commonly PVP in a T1 Frigate I have no idea why or where you are fighting and given the advantages of every tier 2 frigate over a tier one you are either tackling with a substandard frig or don't have a reimbursement policy for using a fast t2 to tackle with. Either way your are going to die fast if you are fighting in a fleet engagement. If not then whoever is fighting you in low sec space ought to be owning you with drones.
3. We agree. The learning curve without a corp or friends is nigh unto impossible to learn. Spreadsheets only teach you so much.
4. Given the learning curve NONE of EVE works fine solo as you get GANKED out of existence without someone to teach you. Playing solo in High Sec Space is a sure way to die as pointed out by MANY people who have posted here. That's what happens when you party naked and do not post a guard is a saying of many people that mine.
5. People just like you! People that think anyone playing EVE except the way you play it are care bears and thus lesser human beings and not deserving of playing the game. CCP has finally agreed with you and look what happened their numbers dropped. All those Carebears, Mission Runners, and Miners, in high sec space punched eject.
6. No I'm Really mad cause nobody explained to me that people could do this cause nobody reads the TOS. In MOST games this is against the rules. CCP celebrates players getting screwed. This is NOT a good way to entice NEW players. Don't care if they were dumb or not. I see a game where this happens I am not going to play if the developer is encouraging an exploit or in the Case of Band of Brothers the Developers is found to be actively cheating to help them.
7&8. Your arguments here are ridiculous and don't hold water as you point out yourself. I cannot keep up with my friends who are now flying capitals if I am not in game or just paying for my account and updating skills. EVE is Pay to WIN or Pay To Advance.
All of that said. Eve can be a dynamic and fun place to PVP and you can have a blast after about $150.00 investment. That's about a year in game. But the PVE aspect of the game is gone. NULL-SEC is Controlled by Big NAP's and is no Longer the War-Zone it constantly was. Rooks and Kings are the best example of what EVE can Be for a person who wants to PVP go google their videos. They truly play Null Sec PVP as it Used to be.
2. I've never been in a corp with more than a handful of other people, and all RL friends I brought to the game. I learned how to do math in gradeschool
What's a mission-running Megathron going to do to me if I roll up on him with an Ishkur? I don't need 10 years worth of SP to maximize an Ishkur, and I don't even remotely need a maximized Ishkur (and, bearing in mind that a HUGE chunk of that SP for a "maximized" one is only going to be in that last few level 5s accounting for extremely marginal performance improvements) to make a Mega go pop.
4. Oh for FFS, high sec ganking of randoms is exceedingly rare. It happens to:
-Undertanked exhumers.
-People hauling excessive amounts of cargo in flimsy ships.
-Stupid mission runners who get baited and open fire thinking the tiny frigate can't possibly be a threat to their big bad battleship.
Nobody is out suicide ganking to incur a loss. You can trivially prevent it from ever happening.
5. lolwut. They've been making it progressively safer and scrub-friendly for years now... and their numbers dropped. Christ, they even have a SAFETY to prevent accidental Concordokken, now.
6. So a dev was busted, what, like 8 years ago now? And, consequently, he was fired. And you're still sore over that? Really? And it's the game's fault you didn't make yourself aware of the rules?
7&8: Why would you NEED to keep up with your friends? What does it matter if they're in capital ships? Is that all they ever fly? Do they use them without dictor/hictor/ceptor/bomber support? Can't find room for a T3 cruiser in there? There's nothing to "keep up" with. You play to a role.