Comments

• Kanaxai Member UncommonPosts: 120

  August 2015

  I think it entirely depends on how annoying it will be to level up and progress in this game. In a game like Path of Exile, where it is very possible (and highly likely) that you will create crappy builds on your first few characters, but once you get comfortable with the giant talent tree and what generally makes a "good" build, it becomes very easy and fun to try out new ideas because of how easy and fast it is to get to the beginning of "end game" once your familiar with everything. On the flip side, for a game like Skyforge with weekly caps on the currency that you use to unlock talents, and thus progress your character, that would be a horrible game design because if you've had your character for 8 weeks and have spent 8 weeks-worth of sparks for your build only to realize it sucks, then people would be so discouraged by the fact it would take them another 8 weeks just to get to that point on a new character with a new build. So basically, this concept can succeed or fail, but it depends entirely on the ease of catching back up to where you were before you made some bad decisions.
• Utinni Member EpicPosts: 2,209

  August 2015

  If It is anything like Shadowbane you'll see quick leveling. I probably got 50ish different characters to cap over my career playing that game. Very similar to diablo 2/PoE style of reroll to try new things.
• Vrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990

  August 2015

  I think it's stupid to combine this with their offline training. I'm okay with losing everything when I reroll, but I'm not okay if second time takes as much as first time. That will likely mean I'd just quit the game and make a completely new start in another game instead.

   
• dplcaf Member UncommonPosts: 59

  August 2015

  This is what appeals most to me about this game above all else. The ability to mess up your character so bad, that you could gimp yourself. But when you find a niche build that you like, no matter how gimp you are the true fun begins. I always loved playing a Minotaur Warrior Spear Wyrmslayer build in shadowbane, it wasn't the best but it could wreck most classes.
  
• dlld Member UncommonPosts: 615

  August 2015

  Finding out my character is terrible on higher levels and with no way to fix it is likely grounds for me simply stopping to play.
• Xiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,045

  August 2015

  MisterZebub said:

  And this will matter for about the first month, or less if players suss it out in beta. Once people work out the best builds and share them on the internet this will be a non event.
  

  Yeah, so instead of people with crappy builds everyone will have very similar builds.
  
  So much better.
  
  That is until they nerf the optimal builds. Then everyone rerolls a new character to get on the next Fad of the Month build.
  
  Yep, so much better.
  
• Lunarshade Member UncommonPosts: 25

  August 2015

  dlld said:

  Finding out my character is terrible on higher levels and with no way to fix it is likely grounds for me simply stopping to play.

  This is why this is one of the dumbest ideas ever. The goal of any MMO is to keep people playing so they will keep paying. If new players don't understand the mechanics well enough at the start of the game and create a steaming pile after they have put many hours into the game they will just move on to another game.
• Archlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405

  August 2015

   It's one of the hallmarks of a crap game that it has no building flexibility in the characters. If you are going to have three safe builds in your whole game just get rid of classes and dispose of the illusion of variation. Cheers to them if they actually have a way to have negative consequences for something in game instead of mandatory equality trophies for everyone. 

  MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
• Azaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829

  August 2015

  In all honesty, the only people they're going to punish with this is those who actually like to design their characters by themselves instead of checking some site and copy pasting a build...
  
  Probably not a big deal considering the players they're aiming for. Just about everyone will be a minmaxer anyway that copies the best build there is. /shrug
  
  Of course as someone mentioned earlier, nerfs can cause huge trouble too. I see a lot of people rage quitting when their OP character is suddenly not the best out there anymore and they need to reroll to be back on top of the food chain.

  My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
  
• Harafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,350

  August 2015

  Wait, people are not quite ready for it? You mean as in, RPGs are such a brand new system that people have not understood them properly yet? People were ready for it, in the dawn of MMOs, the first games that came out. It disappeared when normal clueless people that did not want any challenge started flooding MMOs and wanted any freedom removed because freedom made it "too difficult". It is coming back, freedom is not some new strange feature.
  

  "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
  It should be thrown with great force"
• Ozmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

  August 2015

  MisterZebub said:

  And this will matter for about the first month, or less if players suss it out in beta. Once people work out the best builds and share them on the internet this will be a non event.
  

  The problem with the fotm builds is that as soon as they get too popular they end up getting nerfed.  Better to use your own build design so you don't end up with a nerfed one.
• Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004

  August 2015

  I don't like how games reward good builds with the nerf hammer.  It sends a message you can be good but not too good, you're not a special snowflake and here's a nerf to remind you.  So just fall in line with the rest of the herd.
  
  It's intuitive to jump into a game and start picking what works for you at the time.  Games that have no respects (TSW, Skyforge), or expensive respects (ESO) make it easy to stop playing once you realize it's going to take a lot to correct your character because it has no skills synergy and is gimped at higher levels.  Most players don't do extensive research, read all the guides, pull out the spread sheets or even join a guild before they start a game so they know in advance exactly what they will build even before they've touched the game.  Unless of course they've played the pre-beta and experimented already.   And even if you come up with a good build, if key skills are nerfed you still have to go back and rebuild. 
  
  The more flexible a game is (Rift, GW2, MH) with skill tree changes, the longer I tend to play that game and I come back to those games more often, imo.
  
  
  

  "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey
• Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004

  August 2015

  MisterZebub said:

  Xiaoki said:

  MisterZebub said:

  And this will matter for about the first month, or less if players suss it out in beta. Once people work out the best builds and share them on the internet this will be a non event.
  

  Yeah, so instead of people with crappy builds everyone will have very similar builds.
  
  So much better.
  
  That is until they nerf the optimal builds. Then everyone rerolls a new character to get on the next Fad of the Month build.
  
  Yep, so much better.
  

  That seems to be the reason games use this feature, to attempt to put the kibosh to FOTM builds. No matter what game system though it never works. Too many players won't settle for anything but to be king of the hill of min/maxing, even if that means a hard grind to start all over again. I agree it sucks when it comes to restricting variety but you aren't going to be able to force players to not use FOTM builds. The hardcore will simply grind and theory craft around this roadblock. With the added "bonus" of creating a system that just might run off the less dedicated players, which almost guarantees little derivation between class builds. As the people who would have tried something unusual get sick of getting waffle stomped by the elite perfectionist type of player.
  

  The best games are those that when someone asks, "what skills should I pick?" the answer is, "pick any ones you want, they're all good."  But that doesn't happen to often.
  

  "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey
• Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004

  August 2015 edited August 2015

  "We believe that there's a hole in the market for creating a game where you have the power to create something really cool or really crappy, and that that power is valuable," ArtCraft co-founder J. Todd Coleman said in the video. "We enjoy systems like that. We just don't see them anymore."------------- I must have missed something here. According to what this they think it's rare to have a game with a crappy character or it's rare to have a game with a crappy character that can't be fixed. -------------- How is a crappy character valuable? All it does is die a lot. ------------------ I see a lot of games like that. Hugh skills trees, no respecting, no warning you have a bad build till you suddenly start getting killed a lot and go to the forums for help. That's value for players, maybe for devs because it becomes a time sink to correct your build.

  "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey
• Kyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,063

  August 2015 edited August 2015

  Octagon7711 said:

  "We believe that there's a hole in the market for creating a game where you have the power to create something really cool or really crappy, and that that power is valuable," ArtCraft co-founder J. Todd Coleman said in the video. "We enjoy systems like that. We just don't see them anymore."------------- I must have missed something here. According to what this they think it's rare to have a game with a crappy character or it's rare to have a game with a crappy character that can't be fixed. -------------- How is a crappy character valuable? All it does is die a lot. ------------------ I see a lot of games like that. Hugh skills trees, no respecting, no warning you have a bad build till you suddenly start getting killed a lot and go to the forums for help. That's value for players, maybe for devs because it becomes a time sink to correct your build.

  You did miss something, without the power to fail, there's no ability to succeed either.   Might as well just not play.
  
  A friend of mine took up  crafting string instruments (yes, violins, mandolins) as a hobby, and he has created many failures before finally building one that he feels is worthy. 
  
  Same thing here, you can be far more pleased in your character if you manage to create one that is new, unique and viable, which some titles do offer.  But to really put value behind it, you need to be able to fail as well, so that your achievement is more unique.
  

  "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 
  

  "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

  Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
  

  Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
  

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  "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
• Vrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990

  August 2015 edited August 2015

  My prediction on how this system will work:
  
  Those who purchase VIP membership can dedicate one of the 3 characters they're allowed to train simultaneously as test char for new builds. Those who don't have VIP membership will find a character training guide online and do exactly as it says because possible losses for trying to customize your own character will far outweigh the possible gains.
  
  Once those who pay for VIP membership realize they've made a mistake with one of their characters, it won't be so much trouble because they're training three at once. Once those who aren't paying for VIP membership make the same mistake, they may as well quit since they weren't generating proper revenue for ArtCraft anyway.

   
• achesoma Member RarePosts: 1,768

  August 2015

  Considering builds aren't permanent(disciplines can be changed), it's kind of a non-issue.  At the end of the day, it's still a class-based game.  With a passive leveling system, it hopefully won't feel too grindy to change and adjust. 
  
  

  Ozmodan said:

  MisterZebub said:

  And this will matter for about the first month, or less if players suss it out in beta. Once people work out the best builds and share them on the internet this will be a non event.
  

  The problem with the fotm builds is that as soon as they get too popular they end up getting nerfed.  Better to use your own build design so you don't end up with a nerfed one.

  
  That's why it's called FOTM builds.  Everyone changes when it gets nerfed or more optimal builds are discovered.