While I don't know how many people are like myself, I've always avoided Eve specifically due to the time locked progression. I've disliked it in every game its existed in, including Age of Wushu and Pathfinder Online. Maybe I'm the only one, but I'd try Eve right now on a new server, especially if they dropped the time based xp thing.
I feel the same way kind of, the time locked progression is a little wishy-washey to me also. I just wish there was a little more active way of training skills. Like for example, you are training rocket 2 passively, but if you went out and shot things with your rockets it would help progress your rocket skills, if only just a little bit, a very very small little bit, possibly knock a second off your training for every 10x you used the skill. Just anything to make the passive time locked training feel a little bit more active besides logging in once a day to setup your training queue. Considering the amount of time it takes to train some skills, I don't see having just a little bit of a active way to progress your skills being a super gamebreaking thing.
Don't get me wrong, I love Eve for what it is. It's just every time I try to get back into Eve the same thing happens. I play the game for a couple weeks, and then just end up logging in to load up my skill training queue, then log out. After my month is up, I usually no longer even feel the want to log in and load up my training queue, and that is where my sub usually ends.
Tldr; I wish there was a way to actively gain skills in Eve, if only by a small amount.
I understand what you are saying, and it's a common trap to fall into by trying to play EVE like the other MMO's you've done, where you progress skills by playing the game more, or better, it just doesn't work like that and it's a hard habit to break.
The real skills in EVE are not the ones you train, it's the ones you learn by playing the game. So if you are logging in just to set your training, then you are missing the entire point, go play the game, and you'll learn skills in PVP, PVE, Diplomacy, and host of others, and you'll learn the passive skills are something to look forward to, but not obsess over.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I would make the argument here, and I didn't read every post in this thread, but id argue just about everyone here doesn't even understand the basics of eve to even suggest that something like this would result in more new players staying and or a different outcome where newer players are more even.
Eve isn't about progression. Its about knowledge. Player knowledge. You restart the servers and the same group that owns the world (so to speak) will just own it with frigates and cruisers.
The whole point of the game is a giant, well progressed world, where new players can and do fit in, do well, and succeed...its just most people, as show on this thread, look at the game wearing their mmorpg blinders....which is why a comical appearance is new player whos really good at "X" mmorpg gets in game, gets the best gear, then gets upset because he dies and loses it all....and doesn't even think why.
You don't use the best stuff you can in this game, you don't use progression to an advantage, and in most cases its more of a negative than a positive (other than having more options at your disposal. Someone over equipped (for lack of a better term mmorpg'ers can understand easily) is going to be spotted, scanned revealing their equipped mods, that persons going to see expensive stuff on a cheap ship and go jackpot....because the kill mail (a logging of all pvp deaths) is going to be worth a lot (it keeps track how much value you destroy vs lose yourself)
So this very same concept applies to the advanced ships. Someone who spent 5 years training up to some of the largest ships in game has the option to risk a ship that could very well take a month to aquire....and people are going to spot that ship in action and it will be noticed and people will try to blow it up, with the very cheap ships a relative noob can use. Top it off with the bigger your ship guns the harder it is to shoot smaller ships (tracking is worse and meant for larger ships as a target) means a 10 year vet being stupid in a ship that takes months to get can be caught by a small ship and reinforcements called to take it down.
I know most here wont understand it, they are in linear leveling land, even the self proclaimed hardcore sandboxers have these goggles. Get into eve, get into a decent and active corporation, and actually learn that your viable doing something helpful day one....well maybe week one it takes time to learn the mechanics and get some basic stuff.
Yes you can be a part of null sec (territory warfare) as a noob and yes you actually can be a big help to a fleet as a noob. Progression in eve gives you more tools in your toolbox, but you can only bring one tool out with you, and this is a game where you cannot play solo in the pvp zones and expect success. Youll need to be in friendly space, in a corp with people on grid feeding intel about whos coming and going, or if pvping need a small group with you, and scouts ahead..
EvE is not a mmorpg. Its more a grand strategy game where every piece on the board is a player, which is why its combat and interaction mechanics are more in tune with a strategy game than a mmorpg.
Restarting servers, or making a separate servers for new people, its only a question that people who don't get the game say, and these are the people who leave once they realize they cant plug a joystick in and get into dogfights anyway.
Server reset isn't the answer as too many people have too much time and money invested in the game. The only other alternative to attracting new players would be to add an additional server. A new server is the perfect solution to the problem. Now, I'm willing to bet some Eve vets will scream bloody hell no about the idea for no reason at all. Since a new server would have Z E R O effect on the current server. I mean sure, perhaps some of the smaller corps might migrate over, but so what. They are like a drop in a bucket and won't be missed. If you have even one valid reason why this would be a bad idea, I'd sure like to hear it. I certainly don't think there is one, but I like to keep an open mind.
2 responses
1 - Cost, you have to consider the way eve is structured there are not all the various worlds/servers etc, just a single cluster, to do this twice over , without twice the income would bankrupt ccp. CCP have taken 10 years to get the hardware to the condition it currently is (and generally it works well) 2 - and this i realyl cannot stress enough.. Eve Its about who you are, you scam people in eve (see erotica1) and you will forever be known as a scammer, if you awox someone same again, Having another server will remove this, yes there are sort of ways around this, but even then a good corp recruiter can spot people who have tried to hide behind alts / new toons etc.. Some things are very tracable.
Think of the EvE server / universe as real life, you feck up in real life you cant just hop onto another server, I hate driving down the road in my car and seeing a £250,000 pass me, but guess what that guy has worked for it , or had rich parents etc.. The same goes for eve, dont expect to have the most expensive without working for it. - removing this from EvE will simply mean that EvE will no longer be EvE.
I am in conversation with a few guys who have been playing under 6-12 months and have wealth beyond most players even 10 year vets, this then gives them oppurtinity, how did they get, they worked hard... EvE =/- Life
Server reset isn't the answer as too many people have too much time and money invested in the game. The only other alternative to attracting new players would be to add an additional server. A new server is the perfect solution to the problem. Now, I'm willing to bet some Eve vets will scream bloody hell no about the idea for no reason at all. Since a new server would have Z E R O effect on the current server. I mean sure, perhaps some of the smaller corps might migrate over, but so what. They are like a drop in a bucket and won't be missed. If you have even one valid reason why this would be a bad idea, I'd sure like to hear it. I certainly don't think there is one, but I like to keep an open mind.
Because in six months people will cry about being six months behind the people that started on this new server. Then what? Will CCP start another server farm?
Also, how would this have "ZERO" effect on the main server? EVE retains ~10% of the people that try the game. If these few (and new) people are starting up on the new cluster then it's limiting the fresh blood on the main server, is it not?
Server reset isn't the answer as too many people have too much time and money invested in the game. The only other alternative to attracting new players would be to add an additional server. A new server is the perfect solution to the problem. Now, I'm willing to bet some Eve vets will scream bloody hell no about the idea for no reason at all. Since a new server would have Z E R O effect on the current server. I mean sure, perhaps some of the smaller corps might migrate over, but so what. They are like a drop in a bucket and won't be missed. If you have even one valid reason why this would be a bad idea, I'd sure like to hear it. I certainly don't think there is one, but I like to keep an open mind.
In addition to what Quaz said, first, it won't be just the smaller corps that move, an alliance like Goonswarm, Brave etc would all rush over to try and dominate the new land, spoil others fun in new ways, and that would drain players from the main server, my server, and I have no interest in seeing the population leave, so I'd likely quit and stop paying for my 5 subs.
Also, you always hear about players using ISK to pay for their game time, they get the game time frequently from newer players who sell PLEX to get money in the early parts of their career, and if these new players all moved to a new server, the plex supply would drop considerably, and no telling if there would be enough suppliers to keep PLEX prices reasonable. (already have skyrocketed due to a much smaller influx of new players to the game)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A server restart would do nothing for new players, just because those playing longer have more skills, doesn't mean they can use them all at once... If you really want to be competitive, use diplomacy, you never know, you might even coerce enough to build an army and take some assets from others, even as a new player.
People seem to confuse this game as to being about skills... Quite simply it's a social game, words make a huge difference, not guns. (ISK talks pretty well too of course.)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know I am not an EvE vet at all. I played the 2 week trial many years back and while I enjoyed things about I could see the time sink involved and I just was not willing to pay for a sub.
But even I can see what a godawful idea this would be for all the reasons that have been stated here. EvE is unique because it is EvE and people still want to fuck with it. Ideas like this don't save unique games, they kill them.
There is absolutely no reason a new player cannot start in the EvE universe and still enjoy the game. None. People thinking they would have a "chance" with a fresh start are just idiots.
No wonder MMO's are so fucked up right now. Maybe our friend Renfail was right, when he said if you don't like it........!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
There is absolutely no reason a new player cannot start in the EvE universe and still enjoy the game. None.
This is the key, I'm in a PVE centric corp that is living in null sec, with many newer players in our ranks, (some around 4-5 months played) and we're all busy earning ISK and having fun together.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is absolutely no reason a new player cannot start in the EvE universe and still enjoy the game. None.
This is the key, I'm in a PVE centric corp that is living in null sec, with many newer players in our ranks, (some around 4-5 months played) and we're all busy earning ISK and having fun together.
Its because EvE requires open minded gameplay that people are so fucked up about it. They haven't got the brains to figure out that they have to make their own fun. And that has nothing to do with maxed out skills or ships.
And yet everyone wants a sandbox....... yeaaa rightttt!!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
This is possibly number one worst way to "evolve" an everevolving long term mmorpg. Good thing there are devs who have more than one working braincell and wouldn't shoot their game right in the head. I mean there are hundreds of ways to do a soft reset if you really have to and even than.... Darkfall comes to my mind as a failed attempt of hard reset of years of commitment by it's loyal fanbase and look how well it worked.
Comments
I understand what you are saying, and it's a common trap to fall into by trying to play EVE like the other MMO's you've done, where you progress skills by playing the game more, or better, it just doesn't work like that and it's a hard habit to break.
The real skills in EVE are not the ones you train, it's the ones you learn by playing the game. So if you are logging in just to set your training, then you are missing the entire point, go play the game, and you'll learn skills in PVP, PVE, Diplomacy, and host of others, and you'll learn the passive skills are something to look forward to, but not obsess over.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Every side has pretty much been covered.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1wniva/if_ccp_created_a_clean_new_server_would_you_play/
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=947968
http://www.gcdnews.com/2015/03/leaked-eve-online-to-open-fresh-start.html
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I would make the argument here, and I didn't read every post in this thread, but id argue just about everyone here doesn't even understand the basics of eve to even suggest that something like this would result in more new players staying and or a different outcome where newer players are more even.
Eve isn't about progression. Its about knowledge. Player knowledge. You restart the servers and the same group that owns the world (so to speak) will just own it with frigates and cruisers.
The whole point of the game is a giant, well progressed world, where new players can and do fit in, do well, and succeed...its just most people, as show on this thread, look at the game wearing their mmorpg blinders....which is why a comical appearance is new player whos really good at "X" mmorpg gets in game, gets the best gear, then gets upset because he dies and loses it all....and doesn't even think why.
You don't use the best stuff you can in this game, you don't use progression to an advantage, and in most cases its more of a negative than a positive (other than having more options at your disposal. Someone over equipped (for lack of a better term mmorpg'ers can understand easily) is going to be spotted, scanned revealing their equipped mods, that persons going to see expensive stuff on a cheap ship and go jackpot....because the kill mail (a logging of all pvp deaths) is going to be worth a lot (it keeps track how much value you destroy vs lose yourself)
So this very same concept applies to the advanced ships. Someone who spent 5 years training up to some of the largest ships in game has the option to risk a ship that could very well take a month to aquire....and people are going to spot that ship in action and it will be noticed and people will try to blow it up, with the very cheap ships a relative noob can use. Top it off with the bigger your ship guns the harder it is to shoot smaller ships (tracking is worse and meant for larger ships as a target) means a 10 year vet being stupid in a ship that takes months to get can be caught by a small ship and reinforcements called to take it down.
I know most here wont understand it, they are in linear leveling land, even the self proclaimed hardcore sandboxers have these goggles. Get into eve, get into a decent and active corporation, and actually learn that your viable doing something helpful day one....well maybe week one it takes time to learn the mechanics and get some basic stuff.
Yes you can be a part of null sec (territory warfare) as a noob and yes you actually can be a big help to a fleet as a noob. Progression in eve gives you more tools in your toolbox, but you can only bring one tool out with you, and this is a game where you cannot play solo in the pvp zones and expect success. Youll need to be in friendly space, in a corp with people on grid feeding intel about whos coming and going, or if pvping need a small group with you, and scouts ahead..
EvE is not a mmorpg. Its more a grand strategy game where every piece on the board is a player, which is why its combat and interaction mechanics are more in tune with a strategy game than a mmorpg.
Restarting servers, or making a separate servers for new people, its only a question that people who don't get the game say, and these are the people who leave once they realize they cant plug a joystick in and get into dogfights anyway.
1 - Cost, you have to consider the way eve is structured there are not all the various worlds/servers etc, just a single cluster, to do this twice over , without twice the income would bankrupt ccp. CCP have taken 10 years to get the hardware to the condition it currently is (and generally it works well)
2 - and this i realyl cannot stress enough..
Eve Its about who you are, you scam people in eve (see erotica1) and you will forever be known as a scammer, if you awox someone same again, Having another server will remove this, yes there are sort of ways around this, but even then a good corp recruiter can spot people who have tried to hide behind alts / new toons etc.. Some things are very tracable.
Think of the EvE server / universe as real life, you feck up in real life you cant just hop onto another server, I hate driving down the road in my car and seeing a £250,000 pass me, but guess what that guy has worked for it , or had rich parents etc.. The same goes for eve, dont expect to have the most expensive without working for it. - removing this from EvE will simply mean that EvE will no longer be EvE.
I am in conversation with a few guys who have been playing under 6-12 months and have wealth beyond most players even 10 year vets, this then gives them oppurtinity, how did they get, they worked hard... EvE =/- Life
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
Because in six months people will cry about being six months behind the people that started on this new server. Then what? Will CCP start another server farm?
Also, how would this have "ZERO" effect on the main server? EVE retains ~10% of the people that try the game. If these few (and new) people are starting up on the new cluster then it's limiting the fresh blood on the main server, is it not?
Also, you always hear about players using ISK to pay for their game time, they get the game time frequently from newer players who sell PLEX to get money in the early parts of their career, and if these new players all moved to a new server, the plex supply would drop considerably, and no telling if there would be enough suppliers to keep PLEX prices reasonable. (already have skyrocketed due to a much smaller influx of new players to the game)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- Albert Einstein
A server restart would do nothing for new players, just because those playing longer have more skills, doesn't mean they can use them all at once... If you really want to be competitive, use diplomacy, you never know, you might even coerce enough to build an army and take some assets from others, even as a new player.
People seem to confuse this game as to being about skills... Quite simply it's a social game, words make a huge difference, not guns. (ISK talks pretty well too of course.)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But even I can see what a godawful idea this would be for all the reasons that have been stated here. EvE is unique because it is EvE and people still want to fuck with it. Ideas like this don't save unique games, they kill them.
There is absolutely no reason a new player cannot start in the EvE universe and still enjoy the game. None. People thinking they would have a "chance" with a fresh start are just idiots.
No wonder MMO's are so fucked up right now. Maybe our friend Renfail was right, when he said if you don't like it........!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And yet everyone wants a sandbox....... yeaaa rightttt!!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Darkfall comes to my mind as a failed attempt of hard reset of years of commitment by it's loyal fanbase and look how well it worked.