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What Constitutes an RPG? - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited September 2015 in News & Features Discussion

imageWhat Constitutes an RPG? - Som Pourfarzaneh at MMORPG.com

I like to think of myself as fluent with the most up-to-date discussions about all manner of video games, but I always seem to find myself playing titles from a generation behind the curve. I know I’m not the only one out there who hasn’t yet played Mass Effect 3, but by golly, it’s on my shelf of 360 games, and I’ll get to it.

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Comments

  • jbombardjbombard Member UncommonPosts: 599
    It seems like a lot of games calling them selves RPGs or MMORPGs are little more than interactive movies. A lot of the depth involved with character building is hard to come by these days. Not that there aren't some really good interactive movie-ish games out there, because there are some rather excellent ones. Personally I think too much has been given up in the name of mass appeal. Also I think a movie is about the story first and the characters second. An RPG should be about the character first, and the story and other elements second.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    jbombard said:
    It seems like a lot of games calling them selves RPGs or MMORPGs are little more than interactive movies. A lot of the depth involved with character building is hard to come by these days. Not that there aren't some really good interactive movie-ish games out there, because there are some rather excellent ones. Personally I think too much has been given up in the name of mass appeal. Also I think a movie is about the story first and the characters second. An RPG should be about the character first, and the story and other elements second.
      Agreed, and this where many people cant seem to differentiate ... that there is a big difference between Playing a Role and Role Playing .......
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 4,101
    There is no one definition, everyone has their opinion on it. To me logically a game that immerses you into the avatar you are ROLEPLAYING (key word here) should be considered an RPG. There must be choices, you must feel like you are living in that world and making a difference.

    For example, I do not consider the witcher series to be in the rpg genre, I am playing someone else. I am not roleplaying putting myself into this character, the character has already been decided for me. If they let you make your own witcher it would have been so much better....and then could qualify as an rpg in my eyes.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    edited September 2015
    Had this conversation with Mike Tinney (ex-Pres White Wolf) over lunch once. I said RPG used to be about story and playing your character's role. When the DM was removed in the transition to CRPGs, the focus shifted heavily toward progression as the core feature. He said it was always about the progression.

    This further branches when you consider the branches of CRPGs. In one direction you have unlocking the next piece of the character's story (ex: Final Fantasy) another direction where there is a final objective but multiple paths there (ex: Ultimas, second Wizardry trilogy, TES, Fable) and the hack-n-slash focus of the endless supply of rogue-likes.

     RPG seems to be universally accepted as "story and progression" but, depending on one's RPG roots, other personal criteria get applied.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    DMKano said:
    To me RPG belongs in single player games where a strong story can be pulled off around a single character. 

    In MMO with millions of potential players - story driven content that focuses on a single character simply fails for me. "You are the chosen one" - is a complete joke in MMOs, so I prefer my MMOS without any personal story period.

    Also questing in MMOS often ignores the multiplayer nature as milions of potential players do the same Quests - which again fails for me - the smith lost his hammer a million times and got it returned from goblins that stole it a million times.
    Please. 

    Minimal lore, minimal questing,  no personal story  - these are the MMOS I love the most.
    That is why to me SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) was the closest I felt of it being a MMORPG. We had Lore and had a whole virtual galaxie to make our home and role play our harts out in Star Wars. Ever since WoW developers have been pushing away MMORPG to make room for trying to put singleplayer RPG into the mix, because well, that is what the newer majority of gamers are used to play before they got online when internet became mainstream. I also don't think we will see many new MMORPG's because people have shown over the years they rely on the game they play to be guided, when there is no guidens and people are actually set free then most will become bored cause suddenlu they need to make up their own things to do, to achieve, to master without the game guiding them. So for me RPG has been gone from MMORPG's along time atleast in the way I felt RPG would be online. sure it still has RPG but more inline with singleplayer RPG then how RPG could evolve into so much more in a online enviroment
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    Well when the genre first started, RPG actually meant you were playing a role.....Whether it was D&D, EQ or some other RPG you picked a character and assumed what that character would do in that situation.... Unfortunately the term has been lost as everyone wants one character to be all and do all and roles are no longer needed for the most part.....All of these newer games that have forsaken the trinity should just be called MMOs not MMORPGs.
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    edited September 2015
    As I use the term RPG:

    An RPG is a game where I create a character.  I decide who the character is and why they are there.  The character lives in a world.  The character interacts with the world.  How the world interacts with the character based on how the world is designed.  The character can have a large amount of freedom as to its own activity, or very little freedom with activity dictated by the world.  But there is always activity.  I mean he or she just doesn't login to the world and stand there.  There has to be something to do, with the game providing the mechanics to do it.

    I do not consider progression as essential, as long as there is activity.  Drop my character into a world at level 1 and don't let me level past that or increase stats, and I'm still in a role playing game.

    edit: typo
    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    a lobby game is a lobby game, be it FPSRPG or MORPG, its not a MMO unless its Massive, and if its instanced and using a lobby.. its not massiv.

    Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Theocritus said:
    Well when the genre first started, RPG actually meant you were playing a role.....Whether it was D&D, EQ or some other RPG you picked a character and assumed what that character would do in that situation.... Unfortunately the term has been lost as everyone wants one character to be all and do all and roles are no longer needed for the most part.....All of these newer games that have forsaken the trinity should just be called MMOs not MMORPGs.
    That sounds rather silly. So if a group of people were playing D&D and happened to be playing with no dedicated healer or tank, D&D is no longer an RPG because theyre not following  your idea that trinity = RPG? The RPG genre was around long before people got stuck on this concept of the holy trinity being used in MMOs over and over again.
  • EnrifEnrif Member UncommonPosts: 152
    edited September 2015
    For me RPG can be summed up in one wort: evolution Not be be mixed with progress wich become an totaly different meaning in gaming. RPG Story has to evolve. The Personal story, the world story/lore. Characters evolve .not neccessary stronger but different from what they were before. A squire becomes a knight, becomes a paladin. A firemage becomes a necromamcer. The surroundings evolve. Gear gets better/different as do enemies. Skills, trais etc evolve. They get better or different. In many shooters you have you like 13 or so different weapons and they will be always the same. You may have some costumisation. But they never get realy changed from what they are at the core. In RPGs weapon could evolve to something very different. Best example Borderlands guns
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    I was just thinking last night how surprised I was that Metal Gear Solid 5 felt like I was playing a rpg. Not sure if there is any one element that makes it feel that way to me, but the combination of strong story, choice in achieving/setting objectives, and depth/scope of character development seem to mesh in a way that hits that rpg itch for me.
    ....
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    RPG is a game where you play a role.  Games like LOTRO and SWTOR are very good mmoRPGS, their stories you follow while playing are some of the best in mmos.  Because other people play it in no way takes away from the RPG, as you are not the only one playing a single player game.  
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    Great article! The genre lines are definitely being blurred as games try to appeal to a diverse group of players.
    DMKano said:
    To me RPG belongs in single player games where a strong story can be pulled off around a single character. 

    In MMO with millions of potential players - story driven content that focuses on a single character simply fails for me. "You are the chosen one" - is a complete joke in MMOs, so I prefer my MMOS without any personal story period.

    Also questing in MMOS often ignores the multiplayer nature as milions of potential players do the same Quests - which again fails for me - the smith lost his hammer a million times and got it returned from goblins that stole it a million times.
    Please. 

    Minimal lore, minimal questing,  no personal story  - these are the MMOS I love the most.
    I am finding myself agreeing here. With hundreds or thousands of players in the same space, the RPG aspect is hard to pull off well. Player names, questing done over and over by multiple players, everyone becoming savior of the universe just does not make for a good RPG experience for me.

    VG

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
    For me, it comes down to the difference between playing a ROLE and playing a CHARACTER. 


    When you choose to play a role, you are being guided towards a certain way of playing (e.g. warrior, tank, healer, chicken....) and the mechanics usually guide you towards that role, but within the role it is up to you to define yourself, to really play that role. This usually means some sort of customisation, be it of looks, skills, stats or whatever, but the point is you are a random person playing a role. 

    Playing a character is where who you are and what you can do is set. Like a previous poster, I wouldn't called the Witcher series RPGs. You aren't playing a role, you're playing a specific character. So, I'd call the Witcher series "action adventure" rather than RPG. The same with Assassins Creed and others mentioned. 


    Everything else discussed (profession, xp, classes, holy trinity etc) is irrelevant. They are simply mechanics used to make games more enjoyable rather than defining what the game is about. 


    As for the MMO part:

    Massively = 1000+ people (minimum) who can be online at once on a single server. 
    Multiplayer = playing with other people (i.e. grouping), not to be confused with playing near other people. 
    Online = online.....
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    RPG = choices in character development. That's the core component. Everything else is optional.


    And The Witcher IS very much so an RPG. The fact that everyone that plays it plays Geralt is not relevant. The fact that you can develop your own version of Geralt as you wish is.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • DeathtognomesDeathtognomes Member UncommonPosts: 155
    edited September 2015
    To the twats that are anti-holy trinity, thanks for ruining my fun. My MMO experience is filled with whiners and criers about not having enough playtime or not being able to find groups. I got so sick of it Developers caving in to that BS that I quit playing all MMO's. The idea of being a jack of all trades makes me sick knowing that Developers would allow such crap and knew it would ruin an entire genre.

    The whiner and criers won out. The downfall started, IMO, with the druids of EQ. After 16 years we now see discussions about the all in one characters frequently, and now we are having discussion to define what label to put on game.

    WTH is wrong with everyone? The definitions of RPG and MMO hasnt changed one bit in 30 years, the people have. And thanks to the younger generation of gamers and developers have morphed gaming into a clusterfluck then have the gonads to ask what is wrong with this or that definition and games so they can create now games that will cater to that "opinion". Look at Steam how many games there are that are poor excuses for RPG, how many there are that are made in 2D. They are quite the horrendous back stepping garbage they call Indie gaming. If we gamers keep allowing(buying) that kind of shit gaming we will never see anything with real quality in the next 30 years.

    F* all that, I'm going back to PNP DND where real imagination isnt computer generated garbage and RPG actually is RPG.
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    Iselin said:
    RPG = choices in character development. That's the core component. Everything else is optional.

    And The Witcher IS very much so an RPG. The fact that everyone that plays it plays Geralt is not relevant. The fact that you can develop your own version of Geralt as you wish is.

    Interesting perspective.  I have to re-think mine to see how this fits in.

    Great thread all.  Very informative.  I thought I was alone with a tangented perspective, but it seems people are all over the place on this on.
    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    XAPKen said:
    Iselin said:
    RPG = choices in character development. That's the core component. Everything else is optional.

    And The Witcher IS very much so an RPG. The fact that everyone that plays it plays Geralt is not relevant. The fact that you can develop your own version of Geralt as you wish is.

    Interesting perspective.  I have to re-think mine to see how this fits in.

    Great thread all.  Very informative.  I thought I was alone with a tangented perspective, but it seems people are all over the place on this on.
    Well you have to remember the roots of the term and what existed when it was coined. In those early days creating and assuming a persona was unique to a specific type of table-top game. In chess or checkers or Risk or strategy war games you didn't play as a character with other friends playing their characters. So RPG was unambiguous.

    Computer games changed that and in many of them you were indeed assuming a role even if you were just Mario jumping around or Lara Croft or, a bit closer, Link in Zelda. In CRPGs of the 80s you got much closer still to the table-top RPG experience creating characters and progressing through levels as you adventured. So we called those RPGs and we knew we didn't mean FPS or puzzle adventures, platformers or RTS.

    But then things started getting a bit more complicated leading to what we have today which is practically every computer gaming genre adopting some of the staples of RPGs because they're fun and enhance the games. You see it in FPS, adventures and even 4X games with "heroes" and "champions."

    Just about everything now has some characters that can be developed through acquiring skills and using special equipment - main characters and companions both. It's no longer is it or isn't it an RPG but rather how much RPG does it have in it.

    A similar thing has happened with the multi-player and online components of all games. 20 years ago it was pretty well only MMOs and FPS that had online multi-player components. The MM of MMO originally served mostly to differentiate them from FPS which were also multiplayer and online, just not massively multiplayer.

    Now? Just about everything is an MO and the other M is even losing some meaning with MMOs becoming less massive with instancing and FPS having much larger caps.

    So... people all over the place, you say? Is it any wonder that they are?

    Meanwhile... can't wait for Sword Coast Legends to release. Just a couple of weeks now. Now there is a very RPG game :)
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

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