What Cash Shop MMO-MMORPG title are you playing that is NOT P2W?

ArtificeVenatus · September 2015

Many Anti-P2W vs Denial of P2W debates have gone on in these as well as other forums.
The question always comes up from team Denial of P2W, "What game are you playing? And is that the exception or the norm?"
Let us reverse this question...

What Cash Shop MMO-MMORPG title are you playing that is not P2W?

ArtificeVenatus · September 2015

Reserved

maji · September 2015

I know no single cash shop MMORPG that is not pay2win.
Actually, I know only a single game that has a cash shop and is not pay2win: DOTA2. Nothing that you can buy in the shop has any impact whatsoever on the outcome of the matches.

Hariken · September 2015

The two games i'm playing have no cash or subs.

Loktofeit · September 2015

As 'pay2win' is entirely subjective, no matter what answer is given, especially with your trap definition of pay2win, the argument will aways be that it is pay2win. You exacerbate that with comments like "Many Anti-P2W vs Denial of P2W debates" as if anyone here ever denied that P2W shops can or do exist.

You're either being obtuse or trolling.

Scot · September 2015

P2W is inherent in cash shops. If a cash shop is not P2W at launch I soon will be. Once we had threads on here about whether we should have cash shops or not, once F2P was a word viewed with suspicion.

Now we have threads about what should be included in cash shops and how wonderful playing for "free" is. MMOs as we knew them have gone and a prime driver in that change has been the cash shop.

MMO companies latterly adopted an avoidance of risk, which started with making clones of one play style and ended up determining the revenue model. Breaking that cycle? Well if it can be done I would put my bet on indie, but don't hold your breath.

bcbully · September 2015

ESO. It is not the norm. No cash to gold conversion. Any consumables that can be bought are weaker than the ones crafted. Outside of the consumables everything else is cosmetic.

The closest thing to pay to win is mount skill ups. Normally it takes 60 days to level a mount, but you can buy mount skill ups in increments of 10.

moosecatlol · September 2015

Does Blade and Soul count, granted their still the issue of the Chinese version having gold being sold via the cash shop, and the NA/EU version not having any information what so ever. Sometimes I wonder if every single chinese port has gold being sold directly to the players.

Anyways the idea is that the cash shop is populated by costumes created by players, brought into the game via 3d artists. Which again leaves the question, can team bloodlust actually not suck? That's all the NA/EU publisher needs to do, not suck. That and not underestimate launch server stress.

Lobotomist · September 2015

Question is what constitutes as P2W ?

I am playing : Path of Exile , Neverwiner and Tera - and neither are P2W for me

Because it depends what is win ?

I dont care for PvP, so i generally dont care if a certain player is bit stronger than me. In my eyes he didnt win , he just have little bit better equipment. But so does a player in WoW that raids very often.

What I do encounter is pay for convenience , or cosmetics. Since i often have limited storage space and am barred from some cosmetic items.

scorpex-x · September 2015

Every mmo I've played with a cash shop is p2w, FFXIV cash shop is p2w with the vendors.

The key is to actually set out what you consider pay to win, because that changes the answer.

Loke666 · September 2015

It really depends on what you call P2win.
I play Guildwars 2 and anyone who play worse than me can't beat me in PvP no matter what they pay but you can exchange gems for gold and buy yourself a legendary weapon. It wont help you against my dual wielding ascended daggers (can't be bought) as they have the same stats unless you play better but it could still be discussed if the game is pay2win.

Paying do save you the 3 days or so each ascended weapon takes to craft but a legendary cost you an insane amount of cash if you don't do it yourself and paying $200 instead of grinding 3 days seems stupid to me but if you take it to the extreme there is a limited pay2win in GW2.

That however is something I can live with, in a game where the max stats gear is very easy and fast to gain it really isn't a problem, the problem start when certain gear takes months to get, particularly since many people both in GW2 and other games buy the cash from a bot farmer or account hacker instead.

GW2 should just make legendaries account bound from when they are crafted, then it would loose the pay2win factor altogether since exotics is something any new 80 fill out in seconds, the only reason some are expensive are the skins.

Lithuanian · September 2015

Probably Istaria since there every good stuff is crafted/looted from Really Bad Mob.
Lotro is pay-to-win (since it has real pvp): don't want grind for Anfalas crystal - no problem, visit store. What about Legendary item legacy? - oh, it's in store too...

Elsabolts · September 2015

EQ2

Loktofeit · September 2015

DMKano said:

I am yet to see a single true P2W mmo period.

Either all games are P2W (you can buy accounts for real money in any game) or none are.

The only difference is who gets paid - some scammy 3rd party gold seller or the devs.

War Rock and Navy Field are the two that often come up. There are probably others, but they're few and far between.

Loke666 · September 2015

Loktofeit said:

DMKano said:

I am yet to see a single true P2W mmo period.

Either all games are P2W (you can buy accounts for real money in any game) or none are.

The only difference is who gets paid - some scammy 3rd party gold seller or the devs.

War Rock and Navy Field are the two that often come up. There are probably others, but they're few and far between.

Allods at launch (it is better now but still bad) and while it isn't out yet, Star citizen.

richarddoyle · September 2015

I'd say subscription MMOs are more P2W than any F2P. After all, you have to pay to play, and if you can't play, you can't win. At least with F2P it is possible to win without paying.

Loktofeit · September 2015

Loke666 said:

Loktofeit said:

DMKano said:

I am yet to see a single true P2W mmo period.

Either all games are P2W (you can buy accounts for real money in any game) or none are.

The only difference is who gets paid - some scammy 3rd party gold seller or the devs.

War Rock and Navy Field are the two that often come up. There are probably others, but they're few and far between.

Allods at launch (it is better now but still bad) and while it isn't out yet, Star citizen.

What is the current pay to win content in Allods? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, rather asking what it is as I do not know. War Rock and Navy Field are, by any definition, Pay 2 win as you can buy best in slot from the store. Is that the case with Allods?

AzurePrower · September 2015

@ArtificeVenatus I guess games like Guild Wars 2 are not Pay to Win with their cash shop. They're just Pay to Enjoy the game.

Groundless · September 2015

FFXIV is tricky to talk about because you pay an extra $1.99 a month for extra 'vendors' to sell things on the market boards. The game gives you two for free with a max of twenty items you can sell at once. The thing about this is that in-game currency is largely irrelevant for doing content with the token system for collecting gear, you would really only need money as a luxury to gear up low level characters or buy cosmetic items. Everything else in the cash shop are non-essential 'minions' with no in-game effects, mounts that run at the same speed as anything else, and cosmetic clothing items. Even if you are a full-time crafter paying an extra $7.99 a month ontop of your $14.99 subscription, with full market control and millions of in-game money, your gear won't be any better than someone who runs dungeons for tokens or who raids in the end-game areas, since crafted gear and the crafting system in general is entirely optional and cosmetic at this point.

Kyleran · September 2015

I play EVE and pay for 5 subs so I guess I'm paying to "win"

Boneserino · September 2015

IMO Fallen Earth is absolutely not pay 2 win, although it does have optional subs, if you consider that pay to win.

I would love to hear someone defend how they think that game is pay to win.

Superman0X · September 2015

ArtificeVenatus said:

What Cash Shop MMO-MMORPG title are you playing that is not P2W?

I dont know any game with monetization that is not P2W.... but there are currently a few cash shops that I like well enough to spend money in. One PC a game that I am actively playing, with a cash shop (that I spend in), is Path of Exile. Another game on PC that I am actively playing, with a cash shop (that I spend in), is PlanetSide 2. These two examples have extremely different approaches to the cash shop, but I find that they have matched the cash shop to the game well.

P.S. You are not going to be happy with the answers to this thread.... because you asked the question in such a way as to get responses that you would not like.

CrazKanuk · September 2015

maji said:

I know no single cash shop MMORPG that is not pay2win.
Actually, I know only a single game that has a cash shop and is not pay2win: DOTA2. Nothing that you can buy in the shop has any impact whatsoever on the outcome of the matches.

and I can think of no game that IS P2W. I have yet to find a game that's P2W, nor have I managed to get anyone to answer the question "which MMORPG is P2W". It's an honest question.

With regards to DOTA 2, I don't see how the cash shop is any different. I can purchase items through the cash shop, but they can also be earned in-game through drops, etc., but that might take me considerably more time than just purchasing it, right? Tell me how that's different than what you define as P2W.

Tasslehoff35 · September 2015

Scot said:

P2W is inherent in cash shops. If a cash shop is not P2W at launch I soon will be. Once we had threads on here about whether we should have cash shops or not, once F2P was a word viewed with suspicion.
Now we have threads about what should be included in cash shops and how wonderful playing for "free" is. MMOs as we knew them have gone and a prime driver in that change has been the cash shop.
MMO companies latterly adopted an avoidance of risk, which started with making clones of one play style and ended up determining the revenue model. Breaking that cycle? Well if it can be done I would put my bet on indie, but don't hold your breath.

This is ridiculous. I can name three right off the top of my head that have nothing in their shops that's P2W. LOTRO eso and swtor.

Tasslehoff35 · September 2015

maji said:

I know no single cash shop MMORPG that is not pay2win.
Actually, I know only a single game that has a cash shop and is not pay2win: DOTA2. Nothing that you can buy in the shop has any impact whatsoever on the outcome of the matches.

Do you play mmorpgs? Because your comment is about as ignorant as they get.

Swtor for example there is nothing in that shop that will put you ahead...unless you think outfits and mounts some how give you an advantage.

Gardavsshade · September 2015

I play Wurm Online and that MMO is definitely P2W. We are allowed to buy and sell Player Characters, Ingame Gold/Silver coin, Land (deeds), and everything else pretty much. Want to start out in the game with a Player Character that has the accumulated skills of 4 or 5 years? A Master Craftsman or a High Skilled fighter ready to slay a Dragon? Just check the Forums.

I don't play Wurm in a P2W mode myself, and I can tell I am at the bottom of the food chain there.

Is it fun? For me yes, but the longer I am there the more I despise P2W and the less I am enjoying the game.

Compared to Wurm most MMOs, even with a Cash Shop, are NOT P2W.

Howdy, Stranger!

What Cash Shop MMO-MMORPG title are you playing that is NOT P2W?