Is it just 80K for the video guy? is there like not hardware and software in the mix? A pc just to renders video as fast he can is not cheap.
Computers are cheap... 3-5000$ for a decent editing rig. About 4000$ for a pro camera. half that for a good consumer one. about 1000$ for a simple light kit for a 1 person setup... double that for a small studio. 50-60$ for a small mixer. 150-200 for a good mic. maybe another 500$ for cables and misc equiptment such as tripods and reflectors. software might run a few thousand dollars depending on what you get and how the license looks. But most likley they have that in place already
No the real cost comes in with the full-time job it is to plan, write, record, edit and publish videos. It might seems easy when you see it on youtube but there is a huge amount of work that goes in to it if you want it to look good.
Is it just 80K for the video guy? is there like not hardware and software in the mix? A pc just to renders video as fast he can is not cheap.
Computers are cheap... 3-5000$ for a decent editing rig. About 4000$ for a pro camera. half that for a good consumer one. about 1000$ for a simple light kit for a 1 person setup... double that for a small studio. 50-60$ for a small mixer. 150-200 for a good mic. maybe another 500$ for cables and misc equiptment such as tripods and reflectors. software might run a few thousand dollars depending on what you get and how the license looks. But most likley they have that in place already
No the real cost comes in with the full-time job it is to plan, write, record, edit and publish videos. It might seems easy when you see it on youtube but there is a huge amount of work that goes in to it if you want it to look good.
Biggest part of the cost is going to be his salary plus all the taxes, insurance, social security etc. the company has to pay on top of that. So think like anything from plus half to double his / her net earnings, depending on which country / state they are based in and how much they're paying.
After thinking about this, I can't say I see too much of a problem with it. Though it would have been smarter to have included it in the original kickstarter imo.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Again this should be none of anyone's concern who is not an employee, or a direct investor.
If a company wants to kickstart a job position for an office cat-whisperer, its their business.
If you don't like it, ignore the kickstart campaign.
I still don't get why anyone outside the company feels like their opinion should count on businesses related issues when they have nothing to do with it.
of course you dont get it cause ... you Cant Understand Normal Thinking ..... Happens everyday thru every walk of life .. even you .. you have never walked into a store , shop ... etc .. and wow .. why would they do/pay for this ..Why would they do things this way?... Why does this cost X ... WTF are they thinking ... ?"
Thinking about a price of products at the store is not the same thing at all.
When you are buying groceries you don't care about if Kellogg hired a videographer to document their next cereal.
You care about the price, the ingredients etc....
Will 80,000k video guy change the price of Crowfall? It won't.
Again when it comes to business issues - if you are not a stakeholder and it's not law breaking issue or public safety issue - it's none of your concern.
Bottom line here - this kickstarter changes nothing for future players of crowfall, and anyone who doesn't like it - just ignore it.
Wow .. reading comprehension .. My response does not adress just price ... it adresses any function any business may incorporate(and pricing) .. hence .. "Why would they do things this way ?"
Why would a company do a kickstarter to hire a videographer - because they don't want to spend funds allocated for game development on this?
Do we seriously need to ask why would they do this question?
Where the Fug you live Russia or N Korea ,here in the states its Ok to have Opinions and question business practices....
Again this should be none of anyone's concern who is not an employee, or a direct investor.
If a company wants to kickstart a job position for an office cat-whisperer, its their business.
If you don't like it, ignore the kickstart campaign.
I still don't get why anyone outside the company feels like their opinion should count on businesses related issues when they have nothing to do with it.
of course you dont get it cause ... you Cant Understand Normal Thinking ..... Happens everyday thru every walk of life .. even you .. you have never walked into a store , shop ... etc .. and wow .. why would they do/pay for this ..Why would they do things this way?... Why does this cost X ... WTF are they thinking ... ?"
Thinking about a price of products at the store is not the same thing at all.
When you are buying groceries you don't care about if Kellogg hired a videographer to document their next cereal.
You care about the price, the ingredients etc....
Will 80,000k video guy change the price of Crowfall? It won't.
Again when it comes to business issues - if you are not a stakeholder and it's not law breaking issue or public safety issue - it's none of your concern.
Bottom line here - this kickstarter changes nothing for future players of crowfall, and anyone who doesn't like it - just ignore it.
Wow .. reading comprehension .. My response does not adress just price ... it adresses any function any business may incorporate(and pricing) .. hence .. "Why would they do things this way ?"
Why would a company do a kickstarter to hire a videographer - because they don't want to spend funds allocated for game development on this?
Do we seriously need to ask why would they do this question?
It's not even a Kickstarter. That is long over. They just have a running tally on their website now of income and put up some goals for what they will do.
As l said above, WHO CARES what they spend money on? If they deliver what they sold us, that's all we should care about. The last thing I want them to do now is start to add new features.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Again this should be none of anyone's concern who is not an employee, or a direct investor.
If a company wants to kickstart a job position for an office cat-whisperer, its their business.
If you don't like it, ignore the kickstart campaign.
I still don't get why anyone outside the company feels like their opinion should count on businesses related issues when they have nothing to do with it.
of course you dont get it cause ... you Cant Understand Normal Thinking ..... Happens everyday thru every walk of life .. even you .. you have never walked into a store , shop ... etc .. and wow .. why would they do/pay for this ..Why would they do things this way?... Why does this cost X ... WTF are they thinking ... ?"
Thinking about a price of products at the store is not the same thing at all.
When you are buying groceries you don't care about if Kellogg hired a videographer to document their next cereal.
You care about the price, the ingredients etc....
Will 80,000k video guy change the price of Crowfall? It won't.
Again when it comes to business issues - if you are not a stakeholder and it's not law breaking issue or public safety issue - it's none of your concern.
Bottom line here - this kickstarter changes nothing for future players of crowfall, and anyone who doesn't like it - just ignore it.
Wow .. reading comprehension .. My response does not adress just price ... it adresses any function any business may incorporate(and pricing) .. hence .. "Why would they do things this way ?"
Why would a company do a kickstarter to hire a videographer - because they don't want to spend funds allocated for game development on this?
Do we seriously need to ask why would they do this question?
Where the Fug you live Russia or N Korea ,here in the states its Ok to have Opinions and question business practices....
Again having opinions is fine.
However thinking that one's opinions should have any bearing on how a business functions (like running a kickstarter for a videographer) is crazy talk.
If you are not a stakeholder, your opinions means diddly squat, and that's what I've been saying all along.
This is my opinion - (also people in Korea (both north and south) as well as Russia have opinions), the cold war stereotypes are dead
The OP didnt intend to have any "Bearing" on it , they just voiced an opinion about the business practice as others have in this thread , Which you say is "Fine"
But then you argue that they shoudlnt have an opnion on it in thread .. lmao ..you are contradicting and argueing with yourself.."aint that rich"...like i said .. Cant Understand Normal Thinking
Again this should be none of anyone's concern who is not an employee, or a direct investor.
If a company wants to kickstart a job position for an office cat-whisperer, its their business.
If you don't like it, ignore the kickstart campaign.
I still don't get why anyone outside the company feels like their opinion should count on businesses related issues when they have nothing to do with it.
of course you dont get it cause ... you Cant Understand Normal Thinking ..... Happens everyday thru every walk of life .. even you .. you have never walked into a store , shop ... etc .. and wow .. why would they do/pay for this ..Why would they do things this way?... Why does this cost X ... WTF are they thinking ... ?"
Thinking about a price of products at the store is not the same thing at all.
When you are buying groceries you don't care about if Kellogg hired a videographer to document their next cereal.
You care about the price, the ingredients etc....
Will 80,000k video guy change the price of Crowfall? It won't.
Again when it comes to business issues - if you are not a stakeholder and it's not law breaking issue or public safety issue - it's none of your concern.
Bottom line here - this kickstarter changes nothing for future players of crowfall, and anyone who doesn't like it - just ignore it.
Wow .. reading comprehension .. My response does not adress just price ... it adresses any function any business may incorporate(and pricing) .. hence .. "Why would they do things this way ?"
Why would a company do a kickstarter to hire a videographer - because they don't want to spend funds allocated for game development on this?
Do we seriously need to ask why would they do this question?
Where the Fug you live Russia or N Korea ,here in the states its Ok to have Opinions and question business practices....
Again having opinions is fine.
However thinking that one's opinions should have any bearing on how a business functions (like running a kickstarter for a videographer) is crazy talk.
If you are not a stakeholder, your opinions means diddly squat, and that's what I've been saying all along.
This is my opinion - (also people in Korea (both north and south) as well as Russia have opinions), the cold war stereotypes are dead
The OP didnt intend to have any "Bearing" on it , they just voiced an opinion about the business practice as others have in this thread , Which you say is "Fine"
But then you argue that they shoudlnt have an opnion on it in thread .. lmao ..you are contradicting and argueing with yourself.."aint that rich"...like i said .. Cant Understand Normal Thinking
At least he didn't have to resort to insulting people because his point sucks.
Professional Video Editors can make anywhere from $500 - $800 10hrs/day for work (more for really high end jobs.) You won't be doing it for free because editing takes time. Lots of time to do it right. The first time sure maybe free, but soon after you'll want to get paid. As you should. There's a reason why talented editors make good money. Oh and the edit system they are using is probably either Premiere or Avid. And the computer might cost around five to seven thousand. That's not counting cameras and all the other stuff. Not sure if studio production is factored in. Regardless that price isn't absurd for someone that is a professional.
You mentioned Kellogg. So do you think it would be cool for Kellogg to have a Kickstarter to create their new Tony the Tiger TV commercial?
Point is this kind of business model is concerning for many reasons and some can't see the big picture because of their want.
OK. One more time. Slowly. This... is... not...a...Kickstarter. Kickstarter is over. This is them telling you where their new revenue is going to be spent. For all I care they could post that they were going to burn it. All I care about is that they deliver what they sold us. If they don't do THAT then I will be right in line to complain.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You mentioned Kellogg. So do you think it would be cool for Kellogg to have a Kickstarter to create their new Tony the Tiger TV commercial?
Point is this kind of business model is concerning for many reasons and some can't see the big picture because of their want.
OK. One more time. Slowly. This... is... not...a...Kickstarter. Kickstarter is over. This is them telling you where their new revenue is going to be spent. For all I care they could post that they were going to burn it. All I care about is that they deliver what they sold us. If they don't do THAT then I will be right in line to complain.
That's what we seem to call this practice now. Its the same diff except kickstarter gets no cash.
I guess if we wanted to go back to basics we could call it begging or as Wimpy would have put it "I'll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"
If the video guy is making $80k a year, what are the programmers and designers making? Too much? Could they lower salaries across the board and get more out of this (supposed and claimed) work of passion? On the other hand, if they make less you just kicked your entire dev team in the balls saying some guy's videos are more important than code or design. (psst... it isn't. We would rather have a good game than some inside look into the dev pit.)
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
OK. One more time. Slowly. This... is... not...a...Kickstarter. Kickstarter is over. This is them telling you where their new revenue is going to be spent. For all I care they could post that they were going to burn it. All I care about is that they deliver what they sold us. If they don't do THAT then I will be right in line to complain.
That's what we seem to call this practice now. Its the same diff except kickstarter gets no cash.
I guess if we wanted to go back to basics we could call it begging or as Wimpy would have put it "I'll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"
I don't call it that and actually don't see the term "Kickstarter" used beyond an actual Kickstarter as far as I can tell.
A post-KS goal =/= a Kickstarter project. Goals during a KS aren't even a KS themselves.
Regardless of terms, CF is fully funded and then some. As fans are still buying packages and stuff from the store, the pool of funds/resources is increasing.
This doesn't seem like "begging" to me. Simply "hey since you are giving us cash, even though you don't have to, we'll let you know where the cash is going and set some goals for those into that sort of thing."
BTW, goal in question is at 110% currently and guess what, people are asking what the next goal is...even though it doesn't even matter, but for some reason money just going poof doesn't seem as fun.
Instead of simply adding to their piggy bank blindly or a running tally on the site going no where, they like other crowdfunded projects present goals that hopefully benefit the project and fans in some way.
Those that don't like the goals or this way of doing things are free to look the other way and have no cares. If someone has already backed, their money went exactly where they wanted it to (main game). Those coming in now that don't like the goals are also free to not care, but they get package/items so win/win.
I see it as just another thing for people to whine about, most likely of which have no stake in the project even.
For those that don't like crowdfunded projects, enjoy your AAA mass appeal games that have done amazingly over the last 10+ years...
For those that think they know better than a company full of vet devs and business folks, feel free to start your own company and show them how to do it.
Here's a funny thought. How many people here complaining about this actually even knew the name of the persons actual job position, let alone their job function?
Having an opinion is fine, but you'd be far better off making sure it was an educated one.
His name is John Gibson, and the position is Video Producer. He's been on the production team as a part timer, and is responsible for the six or seven videos that we saw released in August.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's not even a Kickstarter. That is long over. They just have a running tally on their website now of income and put up some goals for what they will do.
As l said above, WHO CARES what they spend money on? If they deliver what they sold us, that's all we should care about. The last thing I want them to do now is start to add new features.
Derek Smart might care Oh wait...nah..not enough space MMO.
Why does anyone even care about this, without knowing the facts? How do we know the $80k isn't contracted for 2 years salary, giving $40k a year or less after taxes and so on. Not knowing the specifics really gets you nowhere in this thread. Even then it shouldn't matter, since the kickstarter is over, this money will be brought in from their website, via new people pledging.
Also the whole, paying for them to convince you through more videos, to make more money scenario. Has it not occurred to you, that all companies everywhere do this? Hell, people pay Nike and other clothing companies to wear their shirts, and accessories, just to be walking billboards. This has nothing to do with a "sour" gaming market, and everything to do with an advertisement driven economy. It's how the World does business, everything has a price, and no one works for free. Even charities advertise, and pay salaries.
This apologetic BS for companies is getting really old. If you run a kickstarter, the onus is on you to provide a comprehensive figure of what you will need to execute the project, not "thanks for the money, by the way, we just realized this is a thing and need more money for it."
The problem is not that a company wants to hire someone to produce marketing content, the problem is that someone came up with a business plan that didn't foresee this expense. It's 2015 and you're producing a video game . . . if you're going to do it properly you should know what's needed. I'm more worried that this is telling about their lack of business savvy than them spending money on something they should have already had money set aside for.
I'm sure this will be met with, "yeah but they were just going to work lean and mean with a bare bones team." GTFO. It's a business and they should have everything laid out at the onset. Marketing is NOT, and never will be a last minute addition or consideration for a successful business. And to top it off, they're not exactly breaking new ground here, video games have been around for a minute and trailers/gameplay videos are common (actually common is an understatement, they're practically mandatory in 2015).
This is one of the biggest issues I have with crowdfunding, it's that people will defend this crap and companies know they can get money just be saying, "give pls kthxbai." It's sloppy behavior and I fear that it infects the attitude and culture of a lot of these crowdfunded games. People asking for money should be held to a higher standard, and all you apologists can get bent.
This apologetic BS for companies is getting really old. If you run a kickstarter, the onus is on you to provide a comprehensive figure of what you will need to execute the project, not "thanks for the money, by the way, we just realized this is a thing and need more money for it."
The problem is not that a company wants to hire someone to produce marketing content, the problem is that someone came up with a business plan that didn't foresee this expense. It's 2015 and you're producing a video game . . . if you're going to do it properly you should know what's needed. I'm more worried that this is telling about their lack of business savvy than them spending money on something they should have already had money set aside for.
I'm sure this will be met with, "yeah but they were just going to work lean and mean with a bare bones team." GTFO. It's a business and they should have everything laid out at the onset. Marketing is NOT, and never will be a last minute addition or consideration for a successful business. And to top it off, they're not exactly breaking new ground here, video games have been around for a minute and trailers/gameplay videos are common (actually common is an understatement, they're practically mandatory in 2015).
This is one of the biggest issues I have with crowdfunding, it's that people will defend this crap and companies know they can get money just be saying, "give pls kthxbai." It's sloppy behavior and I fear that it infects the attitude and culture of a lot of these crowdfunded games. People asking for money should be held to a higher standard, and all you apologists can get bent.
So what you're saying is, if a company uses kickstarter, they should not be able to grow said company,until you say it's okay. Got it.
Let it be known to all future kickstarters you will not be allowed to hire people unless you add this price into the kickstarter. Even if the kickstarter directly benefits from the hiring of this person, and even if the funds come after the kickstarter ended. If not the threads be damned, pitchforks are coming! (End Sarcasm)
This apologetic BS for companies is getting really old. If you run a kickstarter, the onus is on you to provide a comprehensive figure of what you will need to execute the project, not "thanks for the money, by the way, we just realized this is a thing and need more money for it."
The problem is not that a company wants to hire someone to produce marketing content, the problem is that someone came up with a business plan that didn't foresee this expense. It's 2015 and you're producing a video game . . . if you're going to do it properly you should know what's needed. I'm more worried that this is telling about their lack of business savvy than them spending money on something they should have already had money set aside for.
I'm sure this will be met with, "yeah but they were just going to work lean and mean with a bare bones team." GTFO. It's a business and they should have everything laid out at the onset. Marketing is NOT, and never will be a last minute addition or consideration for a successful business. And to top it off, they're not exactly breaking new ground here, video games have been around for a minute and trailers/gameplay videos are common (actually common is an understatement, they're practically mandatory in 2015).
This is one of the biggest issues I have with crowdfunding, it's that people will defend this crap and companies know they can get money just be saying, "give pls kthxbai." It's sloppy behavior and I fear that it infects the attitude and culture of a lot of these crowdfunded games. People asking for money should be held to a higher standard, and all you apologists can get bent.
So what do they do with the money they receive after all of their plans have been paid for? Line their pockets?
They set out XYZ as their initial goals and costs. Those were met, but they keep getting money. Do they save it for a raining day?
Based on what you are saying, they shouldn't have any use for it because everything would of already been paid for thanks to planning a head at the start.
Comes down to, they have extra cash that they don't "need" and they might as well attach it to things we can actually see in some way beyond "making the game better" or whatever.
Most likely they would of hired him on regardless. They just raised another 1 million outside of backers and have more incoming. They aren't hurting for cash based on their initial total cost plan.
Still don't know why this matters to folks like you. Don't like it? Don't support them. I do it every day in what I choose to buy or not. Then again I don't protest against companies I don't support, maybe this is your way of doing so?
They are asking you to give them money to hire someone to convince you to give them money lmao.
If they haven't already convinced you,this is like saying ...but wait we are sure if you give us money we can convince you with these videos.
If you still don't see the humor in this think about it the next time your watching TV and a commercial pops up.This is like saying "help us make commercials to convince you to buy what we are selling".Haha only in gaming is this sort fo stuff happening,if that TV commercial asked for money you would grab the clicker so fast and turn the channel.
I know for FACT gaming has become huge off of marketing but there is still a large player base that doesn't want anything to do with video marketing,we want to hear about a Triple A game and all the systems it will have.I can point at Wildstar sure i enjoyed watching their marketing videos,they were really good but it never convinced me to buy their product.
You sir do not understand how marketing works at all..... How can people know about a game if they never heard of it... I have seen ads that made me find good games, videos you name it.. If it wasn't for those I may never heard of the game..
I had a game on my site we played and I had over 200 plus people ask me about the game, and happen to others as well, and it was an indie if it wasn't for my site they would of never heard of it..
Being a gamer for over 35 years and now a game developer its important to have these, I have studied marketing and got my BA in game production so I have my degree so I understand how this works and how important, if you don't then, I don't know what to say.,. Welcome to running a business.. With our marketing my wifes business would not make 400k a year. if we did not have it... We would be lucky to make 80k, and thats a fact..
Again this should be none of anyone's concern who is not an employee, or a direct investor.
If a company wants to kickstart a job position for an office cat-whisperer, its their business.
If you don't like it, ignore the kickstart campaign.
I still don't get why anyone outside the company feels like their opinion should count on businesses related issues when they have nothing to do with it.
of course you dont get it cause ... you Cant Understand Normal Thinking ..... Happens everyday thru every walk of life .. even you .. you have never walked into a store , shop ... etc .. and wow .. why would they do/pay for this ..Why would they do things this way?... Why does this cost X ... WTF are they thinking ... ?"
Thinking about a price of products at the store is not the same thing at all.
When you are buying groceries you don't care about if Kellogg hired a videographer to document their next cereal.
You care about the price, the ingredients etc....
Will 80,000k video guy change the price of Crowfall? It won't.
Again when it comes to business issues - if you are not a stakeholder and it's not law breaking issue or public safety issue - it's none of your concern.
Bottom line here - this kickstarter changes nothing for future players of crowfall, and anyone who doesn't like it - just ignore it.
Wow .. reading comprehension .. My response does not adress just price ... it adresses any function any business may incorporate(and pricing) .. hence .. "Why would they do things this way ?"
Why would a company do a kickstarter to hire a videographer - because they don't want to spend funds allocated for game development on this?
Do we seriously need to ask why would they do this question?
Where the Fug you live Russia or N Korea ,here in the states its Ok to have Opinions and question business practices....
Again having opinions is fine.
However thinking that one's opinions should have any bearing on how a business functions (like running a kickstarter for a videographer) is crazy talk.
If you are not a stakeholder, your opinions means diddly squat, and that's what I've been saying all along.
This is my opinion - (also people in Korea (both north and south) as well as Russia have opinions), the cold war stereotypes are dead
Here's a funny thought. How many people here complaining about this actually even knew the name of the persons actual job position, let alone their job function?
Having an opinion is fine, but you'd be far better off making sure it was an educated one.
How longer can we keep this thing going before the middle part turns white?
Again this should be none of anyone's concern who is not an employee, or a direct investor.
If a company wants to kickstart a job position for an office cat-whisperer, its their business.
If you don't like it, ignore the kickstart campaign.
I still don't get why anyone outside the company feels like their opinion should count on businesses related issues when they have nothing to do with it.
of course you dont get it cause ... you Cant Understand Normal Thinking ..... Happens everyday thru every walk of life .. even you .. you have never walked into a store , shop ... etc .. and wow .. why would they do/pay for this ..Why would they do things this way?... Why does this cost X ... WTF are they thinking ... ?"
Thinking about a price of products at the store is not the same thing at all.
When you are buying groceries you don't care about if Kellogg hired a videographer to document their next cereal.
You care about the price, the ingredients etc....
Will 80,000k video guy change the price of Crowfall? It won't.
Again when it comes to business issues - if you are not a stakeholder and it's not law breaking issue or public safety issue - it's none of your concern.
Bottom line here - this kickstarter changes nothing for future players of crowfall, and anyone who doesn't like it - just ignore it.
Wow .. reading comprehension .. My response does not adress just price ... it adresses any function any business may incorporate(and pricing) .. hence .. "Why would they do things this way ?"
Why would a company do a kickstarter to hire a videographer - because they don't want to spend funds allocated for game development on this?
Do we seriously need to ask why would they do this question?
Where the Fug you live Russia or N Korea ,here in the states its Ok to have Opinions and question business practices....
Again having opinions is fine.
However thinking that one's opinions should have any bearing on how a business functions (like running a kickstarter for a videographer) is crazy talk.
If you are not a stakeholder, your opinions means diddly squat, and that's what I've been saying all along.
This is my opinion - (also people in Korea (both north and south) as well as Russia have opinions), the cold war stereotypes are dead
The OP didnt intend to have any "Bearing" on it , they just voiced an opinion about the business practice as others have in this thread , Which you say is "Fine"
But then you argue that they shoudlnt have an opnion on it in thread .. lmao ..you are contradicting and argueing with yourself.."aint that rich"...like i said .. Cant Understand Normal Thinking
At least DMKano can type a coherent sentence. You shout, "reading comprehension." Maybe, just maybe. It's not his reading comprehension but your lack of ability to type a sentence that makes any sense. You want to be heard? Great! Speak like an adult.
TL:DR - You have to cut off funding at some point, otherwise the developers ambition can HURT the game's development becoming well beyond what they are capable of while costing a lot more.
The big issue is that developers who kick start often under-estimate and over promise. When a kickstarter starts doing good, they become more complacent and often make the project more complex. This ends up at times hampering the project and even dragging it down. They can become to ambitious, making the project a lot more difficult they it already was and expanding the scope, something that if they hadn't put in place they could of likely completed the original product.
People really need to learn to stop giving the developers so much leeway on what they put into their projects and not keep throwing money. It doesn't do themselves any favors or the developer. As much as I enjoy people acting on a passion project, in the end you need to inject realism into the end goal. Developers can't be allowed to be give an infinite loop of cash, they need to scale down their aspirations in order to allow their end goals to be accomplished.
As much as we demonize publishers, in the end they still have that important role of making sure to keep projects within a certain scale. Often it might be in a detrimental way due to general greed of the company (I'd say being too strict at times) but having unlimited reach is just as dangerous to a games success.
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No the real cost comes in with the full-time job it is to plan, write, record, edit and publish videos. It might seems easy when you see it on youtube but there is a huge amount of work that goes in to it if you want it to look good.
This have been a good conversation
After thinking about this, I can't say I see too much of a problem with it. Though it would have been smarter to have included it in the original kickstarter imo.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
As l said above, WHO CARES what they spend money on? If they deliver what they sold us, that's all we should care about. The last thing I want them to do now is start to add new features.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But then you argue that they shoudlnt have an opnion on it in thread .. lmao ..you are contradicting and argueing with yourself.."aint that rich"...like i said .. Cant Understand Normal Thinking
At least he didn't have to resort to insulting people because his point sucks.
@DmKano
You mentioned Kellogg. So do you think it would be cool for Kellogg to have a Kickstarter to create their new Tony the Tiger TV commercial?
Point is this kind of business model is concerning for many reasons and some can't see the big picture because of their want.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
This... is... not...a...Kickstarter. Kickstarter is over. This is them telling you where their new revenue is going to be spent. For all I care they could post that they were going to burn it. All I care about is that they deliver what they sold us. If they don't do THAT then I will be right in line to complain.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
but hey , gimme money , *open hand* if it works cool , doesnt work? hey at least we tried! , free money is free
That's what we seem to call this practice now. Its the same diff except kickstarter gets no cash.
I guess if we wanted to go back to basics we could call it begging or as Wimpy would have put it "I'll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
A post-KS goal =/= a Kickstarter project. Goals during a KS aren't even a KS themselves.
Regardless of terms, CF is fully funded and then some. As fans are still buying packages and stuff from the store, the pool of funds/resources is increasing.
This doesn't seem like "begging" to me. Simply "hey since you are giving us cash, even though you don't have to, we'll let you know where the cash is going and set some goals for those into that sort of thing."
BTW, goal in question is at 110% currently and guess what, people are asking what the next goal is...even though it doesn't even matter, but for some reason money just going poof doesn't seem as fun.
Instead of simply adding to their piggy bank blindly or a running tally on the site going no where, they like other crowdfunded projects present goals that hopefully benefit the project and fans in some way.
Those that don't like the goals or this way of doing things are free to look the other way and have no cares. If someone has already backed, their money went exactly where they wanted it to (main game). Those coming in now that don't like the goals are also free to not care, but they get package/items so win/win.
I see it as just another thing for people to whine about, most likely of which have no stake in the project even.
For those that don't like crowdfunded projects, enjoy your AAA mass appeal games that have done amazingly over the last 10+ years...
For those that think they know better than a company full of vet devs and business folks, feel free to start your own company and show them how to do it.
More on that can be found here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Derek Smart might care
Oh wait...nah..not enough space MMO.
Also the whole, paying for them to convince you through more videos, to make more money scenario. Has it not occurred to you, that all companies everywhere do this? Hell, people pay Nike and other clothing companies to wear their shirts, and accessories, just to be walking billboards. This has nothing to do with a "sour" gaming market, and everything to do with an advertisement driven economy. It's how the World does business, everything has a price, and no one works for free. Even charities advertise, and pay salaries.
The problem is not that a company wants to hire someone to produce marketing content, the problem is that someone came up with a business plan that didn't foresee this expense. It's 2015 and you're producing a video game . . . if you're going to do it properly you should know what's needed. I'm more worried that this is telling about their lack of business savvy than them spending money on something they should have already had money set aside for.
I'm sure this will be met with, "yeah but they were just going to work lean and mean with a bare bones team." GTFO. It's a business and they should have everything laid out at the onset. Marketing is NOT, and never will be a last minute addition or consideration for a successful business. And to top it off, they're not exactly breaking new ground here, video games have been around for a minute and trailers/gameplay videos are common (actually common is an understatement, they're practically mandatory in 2015).
This is one of the biggest issues I have with crowdfunding, it's that people will defend this crap and companies know they can get money just be saying, "give pls kthxbai." It's sloppy behavior and I fear that it infects the attitude and culture of a lot of these crowdfunded games. People asking for money should be held to a higher standard, and all you apologists can get bent.
Let it be known to all future kickstarters you will not be allowed to hire people unless you add this price into the kickstarter. Even if the kickstarter directly benefits from the hiring of this person, and even if the funds come after the kickstarter ended. If not the threads be damned, pitchforks are coming! (End Sarcasm)
They set out XYZ as their initial goals and costs. Those were met, but they keep getting money. Do they save it for a raining day?
Based on what you are saying, they shouldn't have any use for it because everything would of already been paid for thanks to planning a head at the start.
Comes down to, they have extra cash that they don't "need" and they might as well attach it to things we can actually see in some way beyond "making the game better" or whatever.
Most likely they would of hired him on regardless. They just raised another 1 million outside of backers and have more incoming. They aren't hurting for cash based on their initial total cost plan.
Still don't know why this matters to folks like you. Don't like it? Don't support them. I do it every day in what I choose to buy or not. Then again I don't protest against companies I don't support, maybe this is your way of doing so?
You sir do not understand how marketing works at all..... How can people know about a game if they never heard of it... I have seen ads that made me find good games, videos you name it.. If it wasn't for those I may never heard of the game..
I had a game on my site we played and I had over 200 plus people ask me about the game, and happen to others as well, and it was an indie if it wasn't for my site they would of never heard of it..
Being a gamer for over 35 years and now a game developer its important to have these, I have studied marketing and got my BA in game production so I have my degree so I understand how this works and how important, if you don't then, I don't know what to say.,. Welcome to running a business.. With our marketing my wifes business would not make 400k a year. if we did not have it... We would be lucky to make 80k, and thats a fact..
The big issue is that developers who kick start often under-estimate and over promise. When a kickstarter starts doing good, they become more complacent and often make the project more complex. This ends up at times hampering the project and even dragging it down. They can become to ambitious, making the project a lot more difficult they it already was and expanding the scope, something that if they hadn't put in place they could of likely completed the original product.
People really need to learn to stop giving the developers so much leeway on what they put into their projects and not keep throwing money. It doesn't do themselves any favors or the developer. As much as I enjoy people acting on a passion project, in the end you need to inject realism into the end goal. Developers can't be allowed to be give an infinite loop of cash, they need to scale down their aspirations in order to allow their end goals to be accomplished.
As much as we demonize publishers, in the end they still have that important role of making sure to keep projects within a certain scale. Often it might be in a detrimental way due to general greed of the company (I'd say being too strict at times) but having unlimited reach is just as dangerous to a games success.