The end of a era!

xpowderx · September 2015

For many years now I have played, been involved, and progressed the genre of games we call MMORPG's. I started in 1997 with my first game Asherons Call. From there I moved to Everquest. Then through the years I played many mmo's. Star Wars Galaxies, Dark Age of Camelot, the long journey that is World of Warcraft. Rift, Aion, EVE.. and many others.

In the year 2015 things have changed considerably. PC gaming once was a dominant force in the gaming industry. But now with very good console systems, Ipads, Androids, tablets and even your phone.. MMORPG's have come to a turning point.

No longer are the days of intense multiple hour raiding. The days, weeks, months spent grinding up a character in game. Powergaming, mini maxing, guilds. The overall community seems to be diminishing at a alarming rate. All those types of mmorpgs seem to be a dying breed. Replaced by casual games, MOBAS, ARPGs, Idlers, that is the new generation of gaming.

Many players now days like a game where they can log in for a bit. Play for a while. Log off,and continue where they left off at a future date. No longer are the hours to be spent trying to get that one item or complete that one long quest.

Many MMORPG developers are or have converted mmorpgs into a free to play game. There is a reason for it. The writing above explains much of it. But the biggest reason. Is gaming has changed! Games like Wildstar, Rift, EVE, World of Warcraft are a dying breed looking for gasps of air. In a convoluted ever growing gaming world that offers more and more options to spend your time and money.

A new era of gaming has begun. Consoles, tablets, phones dominate the market. While it saddens me as a veteran of the mmorpg glory days. I know there is still much more opportunity for developers to create and envision new worlds and new games for me to explore. Just wish many more would get up to date with the new technology and new formulas. Because currently, many are failing due to a formula that no longer works. A formula that many gamers have turned away from.

I will miss the days of yesteryear.

Agent_Joseph · September 2015

I hope EVE , AO and others old but awesome & real mmoRPG's ll stay alive in next decades

In future there are not mmoRPG's,there are only SP+MP co-op games ,mostly action / shooter bassed games.

Raven322 · September 2015

I am as I type this, logged onto and playing an old text-based MUD with a bunch of about 40 other people. If they can continue, MMO's will too, have they peaked? Yes. Is it a little bit sad? Yes and No. Evolution and change continues. As it should

Kopogero · September 2015

Despite all the devolution we've witnessed of this genre, the positive aspect is that all we need is just one MMORPG that can easily separate from the rest (which aren't that many anymore) and attract the flock that's been scattered through all these mediocre at best products. Just look at how 44% of this community choose to buy WOW:WoD and 15% were not decided on launch...expansion that turned into a big disappointment.

The market is there, the product is a bit late, but be patient it will come...We just exited the WOW clones phase and things can only get better from here. I at least know I pushed this genre forward by not buying anything new that was delivered in these last 5 years.

Before WOW the market had Lineage 2, SWG, Ultima Online, Ragnarok, FFXI, Anarchy Online, Asheron Call, Diablo 2, EVE, Dark age of Camelot...beside the mega popular Star Craft, Half Life, Counter Strike, etc. Why I say before WOW? Because before WOW there were many amazing products all doing exceptionally well...This was on top of consoles which were still very popular. This was also in the time when players had far limited access to computers, the internet...and so forth. It all happened because developers were making games without following a certain "popular formula" and thx to that they were far more innovative and creative, which helped them to all co-exist together.

Hefaistos · September 2015

I have gained in 3 months over 1000 hours in ARK Survival Evolved. Everything you've talked about is there. Old SChool Open WOrld Full Loot PvP feeling is there. Im an adult...with some responsabilities and i have never thought that another game would make me an addict like that game did.

Start searching about it and maybe give it a try. The Survival feeling of the game is insane.

GeezerGamer · September 2015

Don't forget, this genre started out as niche. It's got a place. That place is not with the mainstream games that powerhouses like WoW had established as an anomaly. I don't think it's the end of an era. But I do think changes are inevitable. I think the genre will experience attrition as it shrinks back to its original size and then we will see games like the earlier versions. maybe one or two games designed for 5 and 6 figure populations.

But no, I think the 7 and 8 figure populated MMOs are gone.

[Deleted User] · September 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kopogero · September 2015

DMKano said:

Masses got no time to spend 8 hours on a raid anymore.

The genre changed to reflect what majority wants

I see the current state as a resounding example of devs evolving games to what the majority wants

Also indie games like Pantheon are still in the making that will provide minority what they want

There are more games now to fit all kinds of player needs more than at any point in history

Everything is exactly the way it's supposed to be

I disagree, and DMKano NOBODY raided for 8 hours. Raids tend to take 2-3 hours (with breaks here and there). In fact people DO have time to raid because WOW captured huge portion on the market, on the other hand what players don't have time for is games that offer no rewarding for success, regardless if it's a raid you complete or some other task. World of Warcraft lost me when they started investing the wealth they generated from WOW to other products, like their MOBA, their card game, their Diablo 3, project Titan and so forth.

WOW suffered due to the lack of "on time" quality content which was significant to its themepark design. PvP seasons were suppose to also last 3-4 months. The raid dungeons were also far more complex and rich in design...Karazhan, Nax, Wrath of the Lich King and the classic/BC dungeons as best examples.

So, let me put this again clearly, the majority wants quality products, in other words they want to see what they get for what they are paying. Gamers in general are more intelligent, savvy and knowledgable, but even they get hyped and tricked to once a reputable company/product that sold its trust and reputation for short term profits.

And no, there might be more games now to fit all the kinds of players, but they certantly have yet to "fit" for what I, the OP and many others know we can have (thx to our vet experience) insteed of what we have. DMKano, you just continue to enjoy the huge backlog of games you got going and rotating through the week.

I too was more than satisfied for a very long time in my gaming career. I still am, otherwise I would had another hobby, truth is...it's more challenging than ever because when you have such vast background experience, you know what the best is and you want to support those that promote that and nothing less. This is why voting with our wallets is crucial for where we will be 10 years from now, at least for me...

Wizardry · September 2015

I agree but the part that makes no sense is the word casual.People are still playing these casual games for many hours on end.

I like to call it the Esport era,seems a VERY high number of people need to see their name up in stars to warrant playing a game.Top 3 games consistently on top of twitch are esport games,LOL Dota and HS.Then you can add in a game i always felt was a cheap mod CS and it really shows the esport domination.

Before these Moba's was SC,really imo just another Moba,imo not a good game at all but carries that Esport title behind it.

So instead of playing for Fun or to compete WITH others ,it is all about competing against each other which is why community has fallen right off the table.

Point is i never did and will not accept the term casual,just as many hours are being spent,likely more,just in a different way.Geesh i see streamers now going 12-24 hours,in my era of early gaming it was considered hardcore to go 6-8 hours 4 was even considered too long.So after all that crying about not enough time yada yada was BS,they spend more time now than b4.

Loke666 · September 2015

Actually, it might be that we are getting back to the late 90s again when PC gamers are a smaller group of players. And that might not be a bad thing but the games need to change if we are going there, there is a reason that the games became so much easier somewhere between the release of Diablo and Diablo 2, the people that now move to mobile games.

Now, MMOs dont have to be as time consuming as EQ to be popular with the hardcore PC fans but they do need to be more challenging.

An era might be ending but a new one will come. MMOs have already passed one era when Wow released, it will be interesting to see what will come next.

Kopogero · September 2015

DMKano, the market was full of "quality games that millions enjoyed" from the 90's...when Arcades, SNES, Nintendo, etc...existed. If you want to see the best indication of how truly the market has thrived and grown since then...all you have to do is ask those people around you a simple question: "Are you a gamer"? And then the very few that will say yes...ask them what are they currently playing.

lucasvrr · September 2015

Automatic and dynamic systems, freedom and immersion, action combat. Someday we will have that in a complete and solid game, if we were in 1990 or 2000 we wouldn't. Yes, it's the end of a era but the new one hasn't come yet, not for MMORPGs, but it's close.

And I don't care if people will still play MOBAS, there's room for everyone to fill your own taste.

*Now waiting the release of: Albion Online, Crowfall, Gloria Victis, Ark Survival, Shards Online, The Division, Dayz, H1Z1, Rust, Das Tal, Wild Terra Online, Identity (MMORPG), Star Citizen.

Loke666 · September 2015

DMKano said:

Also one final note - IMO MMOs are not meant to be played singularity anymore - they are designed to be played on rotation.

The devs know that an average gamer will play for 2-6 weeks than take a break to play something else. This is normal, some come back as new content is released some dont.

Games are designed to support a constantly revolving playerbase because thats how majority play.

There is a problem with that, a MMO is very expensive to make and having most people just play a month and look in at the next expansion wont earn you more money than a single player game that is far cheaper to make. But I guess that is the reason that not a single larger western company (unless you call Daybreak "large") is working on a MMO right now.

The problem is that making games like this might kill of the genre, investors want a game to rake in at least 5 times what it cost to make it and when a MMO cost $80M (like AoC, WAR and a rather large bunch of other MMOs) you need to get in $400M + running costs for them to bother. Having bungee players that jumps in a month wont earn you that.

It would be far better to have 300K players that stays for 2 years then 2 million for a month and MMOs need to be design that way if they want to be worth it for the publishers. The alternative is making low budget CORPGs like Guildwars that is cheap to make.

cameltosis · September 2015

Just to add a small reference to some research:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2014/07/14/the-console-war-is-over-the-pc-already-won/

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/05/27/console-pc-gaming-market-estimated-to-earn-more-than-mobile-in-2015

http://www.cnet.com/news/playing-games-on-the-pc-is-making-a-comeback/

I know these articles are a little dated, but if you search around you'll find many more like it. The PC gamer market hasn't declined. In fact, its grown and is still growing at a strong and steady rate. So, the player base is still there, as is the money.

The mobile market / console market is simply another area of the games market with some overlap with the PC gaming market but with a lot of unique customers.

So, with that bit of research under our belts, we can conclude that the change of direction for MMOs isn't to do with declining playerbase or the money available from the PC market. Both are still healthy. The evolution of MMOs is much more to do with the attitudes of the playerbase and, more importantly, the spiralling costs of developing MMOs.

Given how much it costs to make an MMO, publishers are much less willing to take risks on new ideas and IPs. So, developers are forced to stick with accepted designs in order to get funding. This has resulted in the genre stagnating (as far as AAA titles go).

Please remember though, this isn't unique to MMOs. This is happening for single player PC games as well as console games. AAA developers simply cannot get the funding from publishers to try out new ideas, so the whole industry has stagnated.

Another important factor to consider is that we've also lost a lot of the middle-weight developers. These were the people who made good quality games but for much less money than AAA, so it meant it was easier to get funding and therefore try out new ideas. A lot of innovative ideas and game series came from these middle-weight developers in the past. However, when they were successful, they could then get AAA funding for future sequels and so stopped development on smaller project. With the increased costs of development, if they were unsuccessful they went out of business. Finally, big publishers like EA gobbled up lots of these middle-weight development studios.

So, the industry now is almost entirely composed of AAA developers making "safe" games with high budgets, high production values but minimal innovation and then indie devs who have cool ideas but no budget to take their ideas mainstream.

What is needed is for an indie game to be very successful, allowing that indie dev to upscale to a mid-sized dev studio, and for them to then repeat their success on a larger scale. The industry is too risk-adverse to invest money in new ideas, so we need a game to be released with new ideas that is extremely successful before the investment starts flowing in. Best example of this I can think of is Minecraft - essentially an indie game, it took off massively and now there are tons of clones out there, other types of games are incorporating the tech and ideas etc.

Flyte27 · September 2015

It is the end of an era. Having been here in the 1990s as a teenager I can say attitudes were a lot different in gaming. People were a lot more excited about it. Now it is just another thing they might or might not do in their busy schedule. Not something most people would set a lot of time aside for. Lets also not forget that generation was fairly anti social. Especially computer people. It wasn't until recently that social social media took over the internet and computing. I personally preferred it when it was more niche and antisocial. I remember in those days when ordering food online was a new thing, I was the first one on the block to have a cable modem, and many people were striving to be as lazy as possible. Things seem the opposite now (for me). I see people constantly trying to learn around me. They are always go go go. There is no doubt that it's a healthier environment, but it can also be a far more tiring and stressful one in some ways. I don't believe MMORPGs will ever go back to what they were. People have changed to much (which always happens at some point). People will change again, but it's likely it won't be to go back to the ideas of the 90s.

mark2123 · September 2015

Rhoklaw said:

If you think about what the average life of a gamer was back in 1999 versus what it is today in 2015, the only thing that has changed is technology. There wasn't some magical influx of man hours at work. Gamer's still had spouses and families back in 1999. Our lives as gamers hasn't changed and it's definitely not about "not having enough time to play 8 hour sessions."

People still have time. What they don't have is an interest to play that long. Someone brought up Ark: Survival Evolved and I can add ArcheAge to that list of games that I've invested many many 8-12 hour sessions when the games first launched.

From EQ, SWG, LOTRO, DAoC, EQ2, WoW, CoH, GW2, AA and countless SPRPG's. I have not changed my gaming habits since 1999 till today. The only thing that has changed is my inability to find a game I can focus on because I get bored after 3-6 months.

I'm afraid I disagree. In 1999 I had no wife and no kids and a simple job. I was 26yrs old. Now I have a business and a job and a wife and a mortgage and two young kids. I don't have the time to play and raid like I used to. The MMO market of now had the same audience as before, except we are older. The new teens and twenty-somethings haven't come in and replaced us, they like iPad games, phone games and things that take 15 minutes to do before they are onto something else. The MMO gamer of old is the same MMO gamer of today, with a bit less time available to them.

user547 · September 2015

There are cycles in life. Seasons, weather, animal populations. So forth.

There is also a cycle in human culture. Sometimes a culture has more energy and things feel like they are on an upswing. Ideas and innovation flow more freely, there is a lot of activity, people are happier. Lately in the US the culture is at an ebb for energy. Things are stagnating and resources aren't flowing, as they dry up for a variety of reasons. The gaming market reflects this as well.

There will be another flowering of ideas and good feelings in games. It's easy to forget that there are cycles, especially when people start the chorus of doom because they haven't lived through (or don't remember) the last one. Every change feels like an end when you are stressed.

The current generation of 20-somethings was raised in a prisonlike environment. Everything was regimented, thoughts were controlled rather than cultivated in school. Metal detectors and work schedules. Simply put, they don't know how to have fun. It's a sort of slave mentality that has been impressed on them and they are the victims of bad social engineering. They were churned out of a system designed to create "workers" for an industrial revolution that no longer exists. This is why the market for games caters to people who want to jump through hoops, "get results", and butt heads over "achievements".

But their time as the young demographic is nearing an end and the next generation of youth is entering the 20-something bracket. They will be different because their parents are not Baby Boomers, and did not endure the kind of bland, gray walled, non-culture that the Boomers created when they reached middle age. We still live in the shadow of that era, and it will take some time for it to fade completely.

Things have changed, and they will change again. The AAA side of the industry may get wiped out with the next financial collapse that's currently looming, but games will improve as a result. There are a lot of useless "employees" in corporate America that are kept in jobs by money printing, and it seems likely a lot of them will be left without a chair when the music stops.

Axehilt · September 2015

PC gaming has stayed pretty constant. It's only "falling" when compared with the fast-growing mobile market.

If you're a PC gamer who feels like the platform offers the best gaming experiences, then whatever happens in mobile just isn't relevant to you because you're enjoying the games you like in a market that has held steady.

2013e

Image: http://www.newzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/Newzoo_Global_Games_Market_PerSegment_2013E_tn.png

2015e

Changes shown:

PC gaming's share fell from 39% to 37%
PC gaming's revenue grew from $27.5Bn to $33.7Bn

Panicking about the death of PC gaming, or mis-characterizing it as "once dominant" are inaccurate and unnecessary.

xpowderx · September 2015

mark2123 said:

Rhoklaw said:

If you think about what the average life of a gamer was back in 1999 versus what it is today in 2015, the only thing that has changed is technology. There wasn't some magical influx of man hours at work. Gamer's still had spouses and families back in 1999. Our lives as gamers hasn't changed and it's definitely not about "not having enough time to play 8 hour sessions."

People still have time. What they don't have is an interest to play that long. Someone brought up Ark: Survival Evolved and I can add ArcheAge to that list of games that I've invested many many 8-12 hour sessions when the games first launched.

From EQ, SWG, LOTRO, DAoC, EQ2, WoW, CoH, GW2, AA and countless SPRPG's. I have not changed my gaming habits since 1999 till today. The only thing that has changed is my inability to find a game I can focus on because I get bored after 3-6 months.

I'm afraid I disagree. In 1999 I had no wife and no kids and a simple job. I was 26yrs old. Now I have a business and a job and a wife and a mortgage and two young kids. I don't have the time to play and raid like I used to. The MMO market of now had the same audience as before, except we are older. The new teens and twenty-somethings haven't come in and replaced us, they like iPad games, phone games and things that take 15 minutes to do before they are onto something else. The MMO gamer of old is the same MMO gamer of today, with a bit less time available to them.

Well spoken Mark. I completely agree with your view. I would love to have the time to do the things I did back in the late 90ies or early 2000's. But now days it is hustle and bustle with little spurts of free time in-between.

I will always cherish and have fond memories of my early online gaming experiences. You are right about kids these day. They prefer consoles and tablets over PC's. I am sure there are still youngsters that prefer PC. But as of late they are few(Niche). Times and attitude have changed. So has gaming!

VengeSunsoar · September 2015

The average gamer today is about 30. I imagine the average gamer 10 years ago was younger. Younger typically means more positive more energetic more enthusiastic and more naive.

Albatroes · September 2015

People have to grow up sometimes. No one can really say they were the same person they were like 20 years or so ago when they first started playing certain games. Plus the newer generation is being more marketed towards mobility. Just the way it is. Although I do miss a lot of structuralization in MMORPGs like set raid times/days, its just not realistic at least for me. When I play a MMO now, I just want to get on and do what I want with the time I have to play. What needs to be made is ragnarok online mobile! Everyone would play that.

Kopogero · September 2015

The world is far more populated than it was in the 90s. There are far more people now in their teens, 20s and so forth than when we were through those years. Not to mention the fact that a lot of "hardcore" gamers from then unlike some of you choose to continue gaming over get themselves involved with families, kids. It's all about priorities and interest.

But when someone says stuff like "I simply don't have the time I had before to afford to raid or w/e". Well, that's your problem because you wanted something more and can't have it all. Same thing goes with MMORPG's which are persistant worlds. People expect to play for an hour or less in the day and have the same wealth, same skills, same progression others who choose to invest half of the day playing them.

If making $ or other things are important to you, you have to accept a different role in the MMORPG. Not all can be leaders or commanders or w/e in all fields. You have to settle for a peasant, for a merchant or a a begger. It same goes IRL, it's all about PRIORITIES...

The problem is those who want it all, can't live within their means or see the joy of truly immersive MMORPG's for what they offer, which is virtual worlds where people have different experiences playing them. A merchant, a fisherman, a begger or a thief...all those things can be also entertaining if embrased in a roleplaying game. Climbing through ranks takes time and dedicaiton, more importantly social skills. Players are supposed to enjoy MMORPG for the journey they bring, unique experience in a totally different world, unlike the one we are familiar with.

laserit · September 2015

It was the end of an era:

There has been a lot of good points by all.

It's really no different than any other form of entertainment:

Back in the 1950's there was this new thing called Rock-n-Roll. It was a very exciting time for music, Over the next couple decades, many new types of sounds and acts were created and some became huge blockbuster's while others remained niche and indie. Like every other popular art form, there was a lot of money to be made and in came the corporations and publishers. Now basically the corporations stick with what they believe is a sure thing and create new stars who have the moves and the look. Everything becomes generic and manufactured.

Luckily there are still a lot Indie's involved in music industry and once in awhile something special will spill out and become mainstream for which the corporations will copy again.

The same is true for the video game industry. It has matured and will suffer the same creative ills as both the movie and music industries.

Kopogero · September 2015

@laserit, like those publishers that thought copying WOW would be a sure thing? If anything, one sure thing is that nothing new opened my wallet for almost 5 years. So, so much for safe bets and not wanting to risk. I'm not saying it didn't work on others, it simple didn't work on me...

Truth is Elvis, The Beatles, Michael Jackson...if we are talking about music are best example that no amount of publishers, statistics, and corporation investment would help them if they don't have the person that has a talent, a gift for delivering their product. They also want to have a say on what they want to be delivered with their $ while fully not understanding the thing they are involved in, but thinking that they do is the first basic mistake that's recipe for a failure.

It's like, they saw Blizzard made billions and they thought, hey this is easy, simple...so we can copy it too.

laserit · September 2015

@Kopogero ;

Ever heard the saying: Everything I say and do, has been said and done before?

The point I am making is that when an Industry is in it's infancy, that's when most of the creative magic happens, there are so many new things to try and to do.

As it ages and matures, fresh, good ideas get harder and harder to come by.

And as the corporate/publisher/business side goes. It's a machine, there is no personality, no emotion. Their in it to make money and all decisions are based on that and that alone. A private company "can" be different, money might not be #1.

mayito7777 · September 2015

Agreed with you OP but I put the blame square in the shoulder of the devs who create games for their own satisfaction instead of creating the game for the players out there.

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