Woh... Thanks dunadurium, tonnes of info there and all very interesting... now I'm off for some headache tablets , seriously though thanks to all of you for discussing this.
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx I can't believe I just read all that.. OR that you typed it.
I'll try to reply later but I just woke up a few hours ago. Good arguments, however I wasn't trying to really argue, I was just pointing out that he was very misinformed towards HJ.
LOL sorry for how long it was but i had to get the info out somehow, and there was a lot of stuff i even left out that i wanted to touch on, it woulda got way too long though.
Anyway, i wasn't trying to argue really as i was just comparing what i knew of the features of both games. I just used your points to start out from. Reading over it now im surprised by the number of mistakes, lol i'll have to go in and make it more readable, it was late when i wrote it and i guess the tiredness was getting to me.
Both games will be good (at least better than anything out there currently). I think if you were to take the best features out of both games and put them together you would have the perfect MMORPG.
One thing I loved in DR was the ability to group with other people of extremely varied levels. I don't like how in most MMO's if you don't spend the same amount of time playing as your friend, you're going to distance yourself from them in levels and no longer be able to group with them. That's one reason why everyone plays for the "end game" which is no solution to the problem. David has said that in HJ it is important that people be able to group with each other with very few limitations. I'm guessing Vanguard will suffer from the same old grouping/level problem that EQ and so many others do.
Now a plus for Vanguard. Instancing! HJ has it, Vanguard does not. I strongly believe instancing is the bane of MMO's. It was a terrible idea to begin with and why so many developers are choosing to do it is a mystery to me. Maybe it's to save on server/networking costs (spread out the load)? Who knows... it's bad, bad, bad.
I absolutely agree with you 100% about the level variance issue and the fact that "end game" is not the answer - then number off issues I've had with friends and guild members being too many levels away to group....
I can't say I agree with no instancing though, I think it has its ups and downs and HJ are planning as I understand it to have instancing at about the same level as City of Heroes or Anarchy Online, which give you a lively world while keeping the "dungeon" smooth running and permanently adjustable (ie you trash it and it stays trashed!)
EDIT: Correcting spelling...
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Well realistically you can only go by visuals and really core game elements. These games are months and months from release, they will change so girastically from now and launch. You can't make a decision at this point, you're going ot have to wait till they go gold or very very close, I think it's way to far from launch to make up a decision. I myself am following VG a little while following this game as well though
Personally, I'm going to have to go with HJ over Vanguard at their respective points in developement. I base that mosly on the screenshots given, since at this early in developement, historically we can't take their concepts for the game itself to the bank. Based on what we have been told, I'm still with HJ.
My greatest hope, is that these new waves of MMOs don't fall into the same traps that many others do. Kowtowing to a player base, that no matter what, will seem disgruntled and unhappy. Since no game can meet the needs of ALL of their gamers, and the more unhappy one is, the louder they become. I also hope to not see them push things out in reaction to another competing game. That means both releasing before its ready just to match or beat another release, and not defying their own ideas about their own game based on the successes or failures in another.
Games in general, and the genre would be far better off if the developers "stuck to their guns."
That would more quickly uncover the bad developers, and make each game far more unique then they seem to be now. I am currently bouncing from MMO to MMO right now, feeling mostly like I'm playing the same game over and over in different packaging.
Hero's Journey gives me large hope for the future of my gaming pleasure.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Both games look good. However I will be looking forward to HJ over vanguard simply because I have been a long time DragonRealms player. No matter what MMO I go to, once the flashy graphics and spiffy light effects for spells wears off, I return to my home in DR. It is quite simply the most detailed, amazing game ever.
Imagine detail down to rangers in hiding doing bird calls instead of whistleing, instead of just collecting x amout of items and hitting a create button, you smelt your own alloys. You can braid rope from grass strands or vines, and take the same sword that you could barely kill a hog with at lvl 1 and mow through an army of ogres with it, because your skill is intrinsic to the character, and not the weapon.
Not that I know anything of what will actually be in HJ, but I trust the company that has kept me playing one game for over five years, to bring that same magic to life in their graphical MMO.
I registered this account, maybe I should use it. Or I'll use both to confuse myself.
Anyway.
DR is probably the best game I have ever played.
HJ feels like it might take that role over. I wasn't expecting it to look as good as it does.. I mean those screenshots are one thing, but the game is absolutely gorgeous when you're in the game world. It's nice to look at screenshots, but they just don't compare..
HJ will definitely be more magical than any other MMO there is.
Vanguard exactly looks like EQ-EQ2. Even the fonts are same. I've spent 3 months on EQ2 and I don't want to play a similar game to EQ2 (After SWG and EQ2, I'll not play a SOE game).
Hero's Journey looks very good. The character creation and advancing looks stunning.
Hope to join to Beta soon.
"I would never let a woman kick my ass. If she tried something, I'd be like, HEY! You get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie! "
I've been following both games as well, and while I think they both hold incredible potential, at this moment HJ is in the lead. The communities are both great, although Vanguard has recently began to attract the community that drove me from WoW. Vanguard's devs have an amazing track record, but I'm not positive that corpse runs, long travel, and a few other things are what will be fun to me.
I plan on checking out both games, but Hero's Journey and the amazing things that Simu's current customers say about their games have me leaning strongly to HJ for now...I won't no for sure until they are both released, but I have a feeling that they both will be great games...
Hero, or Vanguard? Decisions decisions, the two of them look amazing but Hero's character creations ia a leap above the normal and that is really caught my eye. If of you really think about it they look really similar and sound similar, that is too similar if you ask me. But you didn't so no smart ass remarks.
I'm glad I'm just comparing two things that are good and not bad like crappy gameplay or what have you. I just hope they don't play the same or have a similar story line because that would make for some bad gaming, oh yeah some terrible gaming indeed.
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
Ive played Simu games. the level of GM involvement as far as ive ever witnessed is higher then every game out there and this is just within there text based games.
the "Army of GMs" claim is not just a gimmick but half the reason im Choosing HJ over every other MMO out there now. Ive played alot of them, ive kept tabs on alot but heros Journey is the only one that i beleive will foster Roleplaying anywhere near the likes of its text based games.
GM events in MMO's to date are a pale comparison, and on the few and rare occasions they do get it right... their well, few and Rare. I beleive Simu will continue into the graphical genre with the consistant and creative approach to involvement they've always been known for. have you ever been in a game where suddenly an event taking place was unfolding before you and directly centered around your group? thats the sort of experience ive had many many times in Simu games and the kind i look forward to in HJ.
The graphics look better then i ever thought they would, and ive been following this game since before they found a publisher years back.
Simu is also a company that hires out of its customer base which leads to engaged GMs that enjoy what they are doing, thoroughly.
From the looks of custimization of charachters you will actually look and feel unique for once. by the time you reach the later levels of other games ALL of you freinds look like you especially if their the same race and profession. I look forward to a much welcomed end to that.
The story and Lore behind the game is Actually relavent and not contrived. players can actually effect the underlying lore of the land. when changes are enacted in the game the LORe almost always reflected it IE the god of wisdom comming from the sky and gifting everyone with the ability to think and recieve information more clearly... all of that meant to usher in a sort of "rested EXP" system in the game. they took the time to make the change relevant to the game and not just some instant and unknown addition.
I like that approach, i think an immersive ROLEplaying game should be centered around roleplaying and be fostered by a comunity of hardworking GM's who love their jobs. I also think the community of HJ will be different. there will always be hack and slash 13 year old anoying gold farmers... but in a game that doesnt center around that I'd have to beleive there will be less of them.
I really like what I see in HJ. I think everything they are trying to do is simply awesome. However, I must admit that I will give the game that release first a try. If HJ releases first I doubt I would try Vangard. If Vangard releases first I would still swing over to HJ at their release. Why? because the current crop of game out there right now is just such a bunch pre-chewed bubblegum! I love MMORPG's but really dislike the lack of innovation that is plaguing the genre. I'm afraid that over the next few years we will see a new wave of WoW clones (rather then EQ clones) That would be very disheartening.
Someone keeps bringing up player made cities. Have you actually played a game with player made cities?
Go check out SWG, huge spawling cities of crap. No one is in them, nothing to do there, and guess what the names are? Yeah, that's right...Las Vegas is actually on Tatooine.
I mean, player cities can be awesome. Even better would be player run GM cities. Meaning, based on good role play, support, ect, a player could become a Baron or what have you. Regardless, these cities must be monitored by GMs. I really don't want to be passing through the player city, 'Doodz r us' on my way from Leth to Shard.
Well I have to say that some aspects of HJ seem to good to be true. But having to make a choice without actually having hands on. Or even extensive access to wicked copious amounts of in game video footage. I will have to say that I have sold my soul to HJ. I do not like the impersonal feel to large clunky group play. Raids. I like to group but I also like to solo and sometimes circumstance force you to solo.
I also do not like other players being jerks and interfering with your game play. So I still am unable to understand people who say quest instances are a bad thing. I agree that there should be large areas that you can play with others. But if I am on a quest, solo or in a group, why does someone think they have the right to interfere. Unless that is the nature of the quest. But kill stealing, ninja looting, mob camping, training mobs into a group and any dumb things I may have forgotten have no place in game unless you are playing unreal or some fast paced FPS that's only goal is mass mayhem. Long sentence, I know.
So I am a little leery of the ulterior motives of the "Instance Bad" group. How about a quest specifically set up with multiple soloers or groups specifically on the quest to grief each other. By way of interfering in the completion of goals? Maybe groups send some of their members to block others group with a rock slide. But my point is the griefing would be to allow you to reach the quests end goal before the other groups. griefing with a meaning not for the purpose to irritate others.
Was that considered my first semi off topic post.
Sorry, I do tend to ramble. Try not to be mean to me.
Hero's Journey, in many respects, looks to be a wonderful game but I tend to feel that the quest-instancing will not create a bonding social experience in the game. The zone-system probably means that the world will not feel large and extensive overall since exploring a "zone at a time" is usually less adventuresome than attempting to explore a large seamless world.
Vanguard deserves top honors for creating a HUGE seamless world where travel is challenging, however the game mechanics of Diplomacy, Harvesting and Raiding sound somewhat less appealing.
The standard V:SoH "forced grouping" may not have the effect of bonding players socially (as they predict) but merely become a burden of tossing together diverse pick-up groups of players who will mutually "tolerate" each other for a desired end -- and then disband. Or, conversely, give rise to uber-guilds of achievement-oriented powergamers who will experience the fullness of the game -- and those not guilded will be self-banished to the outer fringes of gameplay.
HJ *might* be superior in character customization, combat soloability, quest soloability and roleplaying, while the "common areas" may or may not give rise to the type of socializing that players yearn for. Also, I have yet to see ONE single game where "forced grouping" made for "good grouping," but have noted that games where characters who could do solo combat well could also group together with maximum efficiency.
As for death penalities, I have never felt that a *harsh* death penalty either made the game more interesting or made people less inclined to do foolish things to bring about their demise -- and the demise of everyone around them. So, V:SoG's "drop everything on death, get another set of armor from your mount, go back and recover all your items from your corpse" sounds like nothing more than a "major pain in the ass." In this regard, the game could be nicknamed, "Vanguard: Saga of Corpse Runs."
Generally, my choice would be to favor Hero's Journey as the game that might actually produce the best entertainment-to-dollar ratio.
Vangaurd has taken a "throw out the baby with the bathwater" stance on instancing. I like it for quests and they've chosen to not include it.
Vanguard is going to have the old EQ corpse runs. Oh joy. No thanks.
Vanguard has.... the old EQ team. DOH!
Honestly, I don't like how Vanguard looks. Everything looks plastic to me (Please no screenshots, I can check out screenshots myself)
Now granted, we don't know (as far as I know) how HJ will handle death. Will it be corpses,tombstones, or a giant flag with my name on it with a big "STUPID" neon sign on it?
Both games do have some very good designs in it. Vanguard has some grat ideas about player towns being only in specific areas. Avoiding that whole SWG Ghetto everywhere ordeal.
I'm sure just from what I've seen so far that both games will be very good in what they do. HJ is just more my speed. Not to mention actually speaking with the Devs/GMs and seeing them taking the time to come here and talk with us goons is a big plus in my book. With so many companies alienating themselves from their customers it's damn refreshing to see them here keep the lines of communication open.
Yah, I posted earlier in this thread about being on the fence between the 2 games. Its been a while. but for now it seems like HJ is going to be the game I try out initially.
While Vanguard sounds like it will be exceptional for many reasons, i keep getting the impression that they are making an MMORPG for gamers who have more time to commit than I do. Thats not to say that HJ won't have in depth character development. It just seems (at least at this point) that I will get a bit more out of HJ given my other comittments and limited schedule.
If it doesn't work out as well as I hoped, you'll probably find me in a Vanguard noob zone, choking on the dust of the Hardcores
Oh yah. . . and my friends and I have never really RP'd so its not really a selling point for us. From the outside its always just seemed a bit goofy to us. (no offense) But if the game continues to look fun, we may just have to muddle our way through the lingo and what not
Originally posted by phosphoros Now granted, we don't know (as far as I know) how HJ will handle death. Will it be corpses,tombstones, or a giant flag with my name on it with a big "STUPID" neon sign on it?
From what I just read in the City of Villans press release it may well be worth you guys thinking about this too...
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
That was cryptic, so without breaking the NDA (well any more than you alreday have!) was it good?
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Comments
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
LOL sorry for how long it was but i had to get the info out somehow, and there was a lot of stuff i even left out that i wanted to touch on, it woulda got way too long though
Anyway, i wasn't trying to argue really as i was just comparing what i knew of the features of both games. I just used your points to start out from. Reading over it now im surprised by the number of mistakes, lol i'll have to go in and make it more readable, it was late when i wrote it and i guess the tiredness was getting to me.
Elias, your welcome also.
~Dunadurium
"Silly rabbit, WoW's for kids"
************************
Both games will be good (at least better than anything out there currently). I think if you were to take the best features out of both games and put them together you would have the perfect MMORPG.
One thing I loved in DR was the ability to group with other people of extremely varied levels. I don't like how in most MMO's if you don't spend the same amount of time playing as your friend, you're going to distance yourself from them in levels and no longer be able to group with them. That's one reason why everyone plays for the "end game" which is no solution to the problem. David has said that in HJ it is important that people be able to group with each other with very few limitations. I'm guessing Vanguard will suffer from the same old grouping/level problem that EQ and so many others do.
Now a plus for Vanguard. Instancing! HJ has it, Vanguard does not. I strongly believe instancing is the bane of MMO's. It was a terrible idea to begin with and why so many developers are choosing to do it is a mystery to me. Maybe it's to save on server/networking costs (spread out the load)? Who knows... it's bad, bad, bad.
I absolutely agree with you 100% about the level variance issue and the fact that "end game" is not the answer - then number off issues I've had with friends and guild members being too many levels away to group....
I can't say I agree with no instancing though, I think it has its ups and downs and HJ are planning as I understand it to have instancing at about the same level as City of Heroes or Anarchy Online, which give you a lively world while keeping the "dungeon" smooth running and permanently adjustable (ie you trash it and it stays trashed!)
EDIT: Correcting spelling...
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Personally, I'm going to have to go with HJ over Vanguard at their respective points in developement. I base that mosly on the screenshots given, since at this early in developement, historically we can't take their concepts for the game itself to the bank. Based on what we have been told, I'm still with HJ.
My greatest hope, is that these new waves of MMOs don't fall into the same traps that many others do. Kowtowing to a player base, that no matter what, will seem disgruntled and unhappy. Since no game can meet the needs of ALL of their gamers, and the more unhappy one is, the louder they become.
I also hope to not see them push things out in reaction to another competing game. That means both releasing before its ready just to match or beat another release, and not defying their own ideas about their own game based on the successes or failures in another.
Games in general, and the genre would be far better off if the developers "stuck to their guns."
That would more quickly uncover the bad developers, and make each game far more unique then they seem to be now. I am currently bouncing from MMO to MMO right now, feeling mostly like I'm playing the same game over and over in different packaging.
Hero's Journey gives me large hope for the future of my gaming pleasure.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Both games look good. However I will be looking forward to HJ over vanguard simply because I have been a long time DragonRealms player. No matter what MMO I go to, once the flashy graphics and spiffy light effects for spells wears off, I return to my home in DR. It is quite simply the most detailed, amazing game ever.
Imagine detail down to rangers in hiding doing bird calls instead of whistleing, instead of just collecting x amout of items and hitting a create button, you smelt your own alloys. You can braid rope from grass strands or vines, and take the same sword that you could barely kill a hog with at lvl 1 and mow through an army of ogres with it, because your skill is intrinsic to the character, and not the weapon.
Not that I know anything of what will actually be in HJ, but I trust the company that has kept me playing one game for over five years, to bring that same magic to life in their graphical MMO.
I registered this account, maybe I should use it. Or I'll use both to confuse myself.
Anyway.
DR is probably the best game I have ever played.
HJ feels like it might take that role over. I wasn't expecting it to look as good as it does.. I mean those screenshots are one thing, but the game is absolutely gorgeous when you're in the game world. It's nice to look at screenshots, but they just don't compare..
HJ will definitely be more magical than any other MMO there is.
Well,
Vanguard exactly looks like EQ-EQ2. Even the fonts are same. I've spent 3 months on EQ2 and I don't want to play a similar game to EQ2 (After SWG and EQ2, I'll not play a SOE game).
Hero's Journey looks very good. The character creation and advancing looks stunning.
Hope to join to Beta soon.
"I would never let a woman kick my ass. If she tried something, I'd be like, HEY! You get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie! "
I think we all hope to see Beta soon
I've been following both games as well, and while I think they both hold incredible potential, at this moment HJ is in the lead. The communities are both great, although Vanguard has recently began to attract the community that drove me from WoW. Vanguard's devs have an amazing track record, but I'm not positive that corpse runs, long travel, and a few other things are what will be fun to me.
I plan on checking out both games, but Hero's Journey and the amazing things that Simu's current customers say about their games have me leaning strongly to HJ for now...I won't no for sure until they are both released, but I have a feeling that they both will be great games...
Tiran
Hero, or Vanguard? Decisions decisions, the two of them look amazing but Hero's character creations ia a leap above the normal and that is really caught my eye. If of you really think about it they look really similar and sound similar, that is too similar if you ask me. But you didn't so no smart ass remarks.
I'm glad I'm just comparing two things that are good and not bad like crappy gameplay or what have you. I just hope they don't play the same or have a similar story line because that would make for some bad gaming, oh yeah some terrible gaming indeed.
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
"I would never let a woman kick my ass. If she tried something, I'd be like, HEY! You get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie! "
There is a unofficial FAQ for HJ, great page...
http://www.kmtdesigns.com/hjfaq/
Ive played Simu games. the level of GM involvement as far as ive ever witnessed is higher then every game out there and this is just within there text based games.
the "Army of GMs" claim is not just a gimmick but half the reason im Choosing HJ over every other MMO out there now. Ive played alot of them, ive kept tabs on alot but heros Journey is the only one that i beleive will foster Roleplaying anywhere near the likes of its text based games.
GM events in MMO's to date are a pale comparison, and on the few and rare occasions they do get it right... their well, few and Rare. I beleive Simu will continue into the graphical genre with the consistant and creative approach to involvement they've always been known for. have you ever been in a game where suddenly an event taking place was unfolding before you and directly centered around your group? thats the sort of experience ive had many many times in Simu games and the kind i look forward to in HJ.
The graphics look better then i ever thought they would, and ive been following this game since before they found a publisher years back.
Simu is also a company that hires out of its customer base which leads to engaged GMs that enjoy what they are doing, thoroughly.
From the looks of custimization of charachters you will actually look and feel unique for once. by the time you reach the later levels of other games ALL of you freinds look like you especially if their the same race and profession. I look forward to a much welcomed end to that.
The story and Lore behind the game is Actually relavent and not contrived. players can actually effect the underlying lore of the land. when changes are enacted in the game the LORe almost always reflected it IE the god of wisdom comming from the sky and gifting everyone with the ability to think and recieve information more clearly... all of that meant to usher in a sort of "rested EXP" system in the game. they took the time to make the change relevant to the game and not just some instant and unknown addition.
I like that approach, i think an immersive ROLEplaying game should be centered around roleplaying and be fostered by a comunity of hardworking GM's who love their jobs. I also think the community of HJ will be different. there will always be hack and slash 13 year old anoying gold farmers... but in a game that doesnt center around that I'd have to beleive there will be less of them.
Be one with it.
Someone keeps bringing up player made cities. Have you actually played a game with player made cities?
Go check out SWG, huge spawling cities of crap. No one is in them, nothing to do there, and guess what the names are? Yeah, that's right...Las Vegas is actually on Tatooine.
I mean, player cities can be awesome. Even better would be player run GM cities. Meaning, based on good role play, support, ect, a player could become a Baron or what have you. Regardless, these cities must be monitored by GMs. I really don't want to be passing through the player city, 'Doodz r us' on my way from Leth to Shard.
I also do not like other players being jerks and interfering with your game play. So I still am unable to understand people who say quest instances are a bad thing. I agree that there should be large areas that you can play with others. But if I am on a quest, solo or in a group, why does someone think they have the right to interfere. Unless that is the nature of the quest. But kill stealing, ninja looting, mob camping, training mobs into a group and any dumb things I may have forgotten have no place in game unless you are playing unreal or some fast paced FPS that's only goal is mass mayhem. Long sentence, I know.
So I am a little leery of the ulterior motives of the "Instance Bad" group. How about a quest specifically set up with multiple soloers or groups specifically on the quest to grief each other. By way of interfering in the completion of goals? Maybe groups send some of their members to block others group with a rock slide. But my point is the griefing would be to allow you to reach the quests end goal before the other groups. griefing with a meaning not for the purpose to irritate others.
Was that considered my first semi off topic post.
Sorry, I do tend to ramble. Try not to be mean to me.
My vote goes to HJ hands down.
Hero's Journey, in many respects, looks to be a wonderful game but I tend to feel that the quest-instancing will not create a bonding social experience in the game. The zone-system probably means that the world will not feel large and extensive overall since exploring a "zone at a time" is usually less adventuresome than attempting to explore a large seamless world.
Vanguard deserves top honors for creating a HUGE seamless world where travel is challenging, however the game mechanics of Diplomacy, Harvesting and Raiding sound somewhat less appealing.
The standard V:SoH "forced grouping" may not have the effect of bonding players socially (as they predict) but merely become a burden of tossing together diverse pick-up groups of players who will mutually "tolerate" each other for a desired end -- and then disband. Or, conversely, give rise to uber-guilds of achievement-oriented powergamers who will experience the fullness of the game -- and those not guilded will be self-banished to the outer fringes of gameplay.
HJ *might* be superior in character customization, combat soloability, quest soloability and roleplaying, while the "common areas" may or may not give rise to the type of socializing that players yearn for. Also, I have yet to see ONE single game where "forced grouping" made for "good grouping," but have noted that games where characters who could do solo combat well could also group together with maximum efficiency.
As for death penalities, I have never felt that a *harsh* death penalty either made the game more interesting or made people less inclined to do foolish things to bring about their demise -- and the demise of everyone around them. So, V:SoG's "drop everything on death, get another set of armor from your mount, go back and recover all your items from your corpse" sounds like nothing more than a "major pain in the ass." In this regard, the game could be nicknamed, "Vanguard: Saga of Corpse Runs."
Generally, my choice would be to favor Hero's Journey as the game that might actually produce the best entertainment-to-dollar ratio.
~ Ancient Membership ~
I vote HJ. For a couple of reasons.
Vangaurd has taken a "throw out the baby with the bathwater" stance on instancing. I like it for quests and they've chosen to not include it.
Vanguard is going to have the old EQ corpse runs. Oh joy. No thanks.
Vanguard has.... the old EQ team. DOH!
Honestly, I don't like how Vanguard looks. Everything looks plastic to me (Please no screenshots, I can check out screenshots myself)
Now granted, we don't know (as far as I know) how HJ will handle death. Will it be corpses,tombstones, or a giant flag with my name on it with a big "STUPID" neon sign on it?
Both games do have some very good designs in it. Vanguard has some grat ideas about player towns being only in specific areas. Avoiding that whole SWG Ghetto everywhere ordeal.
I'm sure just from what I've seen so far that both games will be very good in what they do. HJ is just more my speed. Not to mention actually speaking with the Devs/GMs and seeing them taking the time to come here and talk with us goons is a big plus in my book. With so many companies alienating themselves from their customers it's damn refreshing to see them here keep the lines of communication open.
Yah, I posted earlier in this thread about being on the fence between the 2 games. Its been a while. but for now it seems like HJ is going to be the game I try out initially.
While Vanguard sounds like it will be exceptional for many reasons, i keep getting the impression that they are making an MMORPG for gamers who have more time to commit than I do. Thats not to say that HJ won't have in depth character development. It just seems (at least at this point) that I will get a bit more out of HJ given my other comittments and limited schedule.
If it doesn't work out as well as I hoped, you'll probably find me in a Vanguard noob zone, choking on the dust of the Hardcores
Oh yah. . . and my friends and I have never really RP'd so its not really a selling point for us. From the outside its always just seemed a bit goofy to us. (no offense) But if the game continues to look fun, we may just have to muddle our way through the lingo and what not
-- I need a nerf --
________________________
Zee
Simutronics GameMaster
Hero's Journey - Quests Team
http://www.herosjourney.net
Here's a little tidbit for the argument - Vanguard will be supporting the AGEIA PhysX card!
Proof here : http://physx.ageia.com/titles.html
From what I just read in the City of Villans press release it may well be worth you guys thinking about this too...
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Guild Wars 2 is my religion