just tried EVE - I don't like it, here is why

manarak · February 2006

OK, I just gave a try to EVE.

I did not get to like this game for several reasons:

- it is so slow and unintensive. I spent most of my time travelling from one system to the other using the autopilot. it is the only game that I have seen so far during which you can do something else while playing. I for example did pay bills and fill up my tax declaration while waiting for my ship to reach destination.

- a major turnoff is that you cannot pilot your ship. oh you can tell it what to do, but you cannot fight dogfights with it. combat sums up to targeting your opponent, and telling your weapons to fire on him with missiles/lasers/projectiles whatever you have. there are some electronic tricks that you can use, and you will have to manage your energy levels in shields and weapons in tougher combats. but that's it.
I think I would have enjoyed the game more if this had been implemented as in Freelancer.

- the world and the skills/ships are very unrealistic.

- For example, while I understand that if you're flying any one-seat type of craft, yourself need to be qualified enough to use some equipment, I cannot understand that when you have a battlecruiser with maybe 600-700 crew onboard, there are not other crewmembers able to use the complicated stuff for you.

- Also even on huge ships, you have a very limited number of "modules" you can mount on your ship. On a battlecruiser that probably measures several hundred meters in length, you can only mount a handful of devices that weigh about 20 kilos each. not that it would matter if it was 1 ton each: the game simply does not take into account the size.

- You gain skills as (real) time passes. This concept is not bad to circumvent powerleveling, but then I learned that certain characters are better at creation than others, because they learn quicker, and even more quicker if you learn the "learning skills" at the beginning. Of course there is one race and one occupation that one should choose to then learn the skils as quick as possible... In my opinion that is pretty dumb.

- Then there is the small detail that you can pass through planets, spacestations and other ships.

- Another interesting point is that though there are no levels in this game, they have been replaced by something else that is as effective as levels. The level of your skills and your money determine how good your ship is, and the level of your skills is determined by the time you have played the game.

- I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...
Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.

- The game also has the same realism flaw as all other games: the enemy ships are weakest where your NPC allies are strongest. This always baffles me: why are so-called noob hunting grounds always near cities with lots of guards, etc? Whould you as an ork mother/father send your youngsters play near with the city?

Conclusion: the game is definitely addicting for the mining/development type of player, but it wasn't for me. To give you an idea how intensive the game experience is: I wrote this whole post while doing 8 system jumps, traveling.

SnaKey · February 2006

Well........

1. You haven't played long enough to fully understand.

2. There are ways around the slow movement, you haven't played long enough to see them.

3. When you are Warping, you're in a hyperwarp. You're not matter, but you are energy because you are moving at the speed of light. The site's backstory details everything pretty well. They even explain why you can talk to other ppl in different systems in real time, in an RP sense. It's pretty cool actually.... bet you didn't think about that in your realism? :-P

4. NPCs aren't the focus of the game. The only ones in High Sec space (and there are none in 1.0 - 0.9) are small NPCs that the guards don't worry about. The big ass mofo's are in 0.0 space.

5. Skill learning is based on your Attributes. Each skill as a pirmary and secondary attribute, they corespond to your attributes. The "LEarning" Skills boost these. It doesn't matter what race you are. I am Amarr and I have really high Memory and Intel, but really low Perception... which means I train most skills really really fast compared to Space Ship skills, which focus on Perception and Willpower.

6. I have more to say but I just realized I have to be at work in 15min and have yet to take a shower! LoL

manarak · February 2006

<< 1. You haven't played long enough to fully understand. >>

I am sure of that. "long enough" sounds ironic in regard to how much time I spend doing nothing.

<< 2. There are ways around the slow movement, you haven't played long enough to see them.>>

not long enough ?

<< 3. When you are Warping, you're in a hyperwarp. You're not matter, but you are energy because you are moving at the speed of light. The site's backstory details everything pretty well. They even explain why you can talk to other ppl in different systems in real time, in an RP sense. It's pretty cool actually.... bet you didn't think about that in your realism? :-P >>

Well, my ship cuts through the spacestation also when using normal thrusters...

<< 4. NPCs aren't the focus of the game. The only ones in High Sec space (and there are none in 1.0 - 0.9) are small NPCs that the guards don't worry about. The big ass mofo's are in 0.0 space. >>

This is exactly what I criticise. The big ass mofos should be near, because THEY don't care about the guards.

<< 5. Skill learning is based on your Attributes. Each skill as a pirmary and secondary attribute, they corespond to your attributes. The "LEarning" Skills boost these. It doesn't matter what race you are. I am Amarr and I have really high Memory and Intel, but really low Perception... which means I train most skills really really fast compared to Space Ship skills, which focus on Perception and Willpower. >>

I don't like the fact that if you choose race X instead of Y at the beginning, you will be much better off when it comes to skill points acquired during the same game time.

plong · February 2006

Originally posted by manarak

OK, I just gave a try to EVE.
I did not get to like this game for several reasons:
- it is so slow and unintensive. I spent most of my time travelling from one system to the other using the autopilot. it is the only game that I have seen so far during which you can do something else while playing. I for example did pay bills and fill up my tax declaration while waiting for my ship to reach destination. Some people like their games to be a button smashing, heart beating experience from start to finish, others like the idea of a game as a hobby of sorts, where you get your entertainment in other forms, such as becoming a mining magnate.
- a major turnoff is that you cannot pilot your ship. oh you can tell it what to do, but you cannot fight dogfights with it. combat sums up to targeting your opponent, and telling your weapons to fire on him with missiles/lasers/projectiles whatever you have. there are some electronic tricks that you can use, and you will have to manage your energy levels in shields and weapons in tougher combats. but that's it.
I think I would have enjoyed the game more if this had been implemented as in Freelancer. If you like dogfighting, there are games out there that offer what you seek.
- the world and the skills/ships are very unrealistic.
- For example, while I understand that if you're flying any one-seat type of craft, yourself need to be qualified enough to use some equipment, I cannot understand that when you have a battlecruiser with maybe 600-700 crew onboard, there are not other crewmembers able to use the complicated stuff for you. You probably missed the part where all ship controls were automated and fed into your mind directly so you don't need a crew of 600, but that happens.
- Also even on huge ships, you have a very limited number of "modules" you can mount on your ship. On a battlecruiser that probably measures several hundred meters in length, you can only mount a handful of devices that weigh about 20 kilos each. not that it would matter if it was 1 ton each: the game simply does not take into account the size. The size of a module is not the limiting factors, CPU and energy consumption are. With that in mind, do you really need 100 lasers if 4 works just fine?
- You gain skills as (real) time passes. This concept is not bad to circumvent powerleveling, but then I learned that certain characters are better at creation than others, because they learn quicker, and even more quicker if you learn the "learning skills" at the beginning. Of course there is one race and one occupation that one should choose to then learn the skils as quick as possible... In my opinion that is pretty dumb.
- Then there is the small detail that you can pass through planets, spacestations and other ships. I think that only applies in warp as I bump into things when in normal space. That being said, it is a minor issue in the scheme of things.
- Another interesting point is that though there are no levels in this game, they have been replaced by something else that is as effective as levels. The level of your skills and your money determine how good your ship is, and the level of your skills is determined by the time you have played the game. Isn't that a more realistic system than killing 1000 rats means you are stronger than the guy who only killed 950?
- I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...
Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.
- The game also has the same realism flaw as all other games: the enemy ships are weakest where your NPC allies are strongest. This always baffles me: why are so-called noob hunting grounds always near cities with lots of guards, etc? Whould you as an ork mother/father send your youngsters play near with the city? In real life, crime around a police station is very low, mostly misdemeanors, not felonies. The system in EVE is like that, you get petty criminals in the well protected space, and the real bad guys are out in the wastelands, this is hardly unrealistic.

Conclusion: the game is definitely addicting for the mining/development type of player, but it wasn't for me. To give you an idea how intensive the game experience is: I wrote this whole post while doing 8 system jumps, traveling.

stone-seraph · February 2006

Originally posted by manarak
OK, I just gave a try to EVE.
I did not get to like this game for several reasons:
- it is so slow and unintensive. I spent most of my time travelling from one system to the other using the autopilot. it is the only game that I have seen so far during which you can do something else while playing. I for example did pay bills and fill up my tax declaration while waiting for my ship to reach destination.
a) there is no reason to make 8 jump trips all that often. If you are doing hauling missions, don't. Kill missions and such will never require you to jump more than 2 or 3 times.
b) there are several ways around this for the times you do need to make that trip: Afterburners, microwarpdrives, nanofibers, instajump bookmarks, fast ships, clone jumping.- a major turnoff is that you cannot pilot your ship. oh you can tell it what to do, but you cannot fight dogfights with it. combat sums up to targeting your opponent, and telling your weapons to fire on him with missiles/lasers/projectiles whatever you have. there are some electronic tricks that you can use, and you will have to manage your energy levels in shields and weapons in tougher combats. but that's it.I think I would have enjoyed the game more if this had been implemented as in Freelancer.
double click on a point in space and you go in that direction, other than that, no, this isn't freelancer online. And I'm glad that when I'm engaging 20+ ships I don't have to hold down the forward button on top of all the other things you described, which are tough enough by themselves.
- the world and the skills/ships are very unrealistic.
- For example, while I understand that if you're flying any one-seat type of craft, yourself need to be qualified enough to use some equipment, I cannot understand that when you have a battlecruiser with maybe 600-700 crew onboard, there are not other crewmembers able to use the complicated stuff for you.
there are no other crew members, there is just you, controlling your ship through a neural interface from within your pod
- Also even on huge ships, you have a very limited number of "modules" you can mount on your ship. On a battlecruiser that probably measures several hundred meters in length, you can only mount a handful of devices that weigh about 20 kilos each. not that it would matter if it was 1 ton each: the game simply does not take into account the size.
You are right, Oh no, fictional ships using fictional technology don't adhere to real-world proportions, what ever will I do?
- You gain skills as (real) time passes. This concept is not bad to circumvent powerleveling, but then I learned that certain characters are better at creation than others, because they learn quicker, and even more quicker if you learn the "learning skills" at the beginning. Of course there is one race and one occupation that one should choose to then learn the skils as quick as possible... In my opinion that is pretty dumb.
as opposed to every other rpg out there?
- Then there is the small detail that you can pass through planets, spacestations and other ships.
Again, oh no, fictional ships and fictional technology blah blah blah
- Another interesting point is that though there are no levels in this game, they have been replaced by something else that is as effective as levels. The level of your skills and your money determine how good your ship is, and the level of your skills is determined by the time you have played the game.
a)name another game with several hundred different skills to level up
b)the whole "new players can never catch up" argument is one of the biggest ones against eve, and is only put forth by people who didn't make it past the trial account and is just plain wrong. due to specialization and diminishing returns, it wouldn't be unheard of for a person with 2 months experience to take out someone with a year.
- I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.
similarly, inside a football stadium is just as boring as the outside, except it has football
- The game also has the same realism flaw as all other games: the enemy ships are weakest where your NPC allies are strongest. This always baffles me: why are so-called noob hunting grounds always near cities with lots of guards, etc? Whould you as an ork mother/father send your youngsters play near with the city?
Yeah, I heard somewhere ccp was planning to fix this and make new players jump 20 jumps into dangerous 0.0 systems to make enough cash to buy their first frigate
Conclusion: the game is definitely addicting for the mining/development type of player, but it wasn't for me. To give you an idea how intensive the game experience is: I wrote this whole post while doing 8 system jumps, traveling.

manarak · February 2006

I don't want to argue, this game just isn't for me. I wanted to inform other people - with a similar mindset as I - about the game.

Different players - different games. I am happy that EVE makes other players happy.

On a sidenote - as a space captain I couldnt imagine spending all my life in a pod. Does it have a toilet? A king size bed? where does my girl live in there?

plong · February 2006

Originally posted by manarak

I don't want to argue, this game just isn't for me. I wanted to inform other people - with a similar mindset as I - about the game.
Different players - different games. I am happy that EVE makes other players happy.
On a sidenote - as a space captain I couldnt imagine spending all my life in a pod. Does it have a toilet? A king size bed? where does my girl live in there?

This forum and any other that discusses EVE is filled with "Stay Away" posts, so the people who do like the game will respond to any of them, thats just a fact of life. While your intention is to warn like minded players, couldn't you have simply suggested they try the free trial and make up their own mind and while the game wasn't for you, perhaps they might find it to their liking?

As for the pod, they stick a tube up your bottom, so no toilet is needed

Dhaeman · February 2006

You said the game is boring mainly due to the fact that it takes a while to get anywhere and because the combat itself isn't very interactive. The rest of the complaints are about realism, which have already been explained but more importantly - in what MMO is realism actually delivered to the players? I would have to say Eve comes close, in the intriguing as well as mundane aspects.

Originally posted by manarak

I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...
Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.

Space is pretty much the same in real life. If you're complaining about not being able to land on planets then I could understand that - although there are more important features to work on first. Some of your complaints are valid and and this game has never been praised as one that's best for all people. But most of your "critique" is just careful nitpicking...

binjuice · February 2006

(thread Highjacking)
I'm Disclaiming myself...

Yay for free speech and all that hulla-ballo, but seeing the same thing over and over again is quite tiresome.
I am annoyed about threads such as these popping up weekly in the eve forums on most gameing sites. The main point of the poster is good willing as in "So no one else wastes their time..." or "Just warning you whats to come..." or even "Unless you like playing solitaire don't play Eve..." but hey, didn't the last 50 people before you already post this, isn't this past news? Haven't you already read this, and still you trialed the game? The point is. Don't try and be the nice guy by telling people that you didn't like the game so they shouldn't. I'd prefer to read some guy **cough cough chaintm cough cough** Flame the game. Atleast then I won't have to read another 'hero' warn people. Please, let others find out how great/cr#p the game is. Hell I can't stand WoW anymore but I haven't flamed it or attempted to 'warn' people about it.

Just a gamer tired of reading the same old complaints about the same old problems, it's almost like reading the RFO forum, same 3 or 4 guys posting repeatedly how they hated the beta... Just pathetic in the end.

Make the reading of the thread worth it, complain, but make it repliable, ie flamable or correctable. Stop trying to be the golden clad hero fo the people.

Kurir · February 2006

Bored with these types of posts? Well don't read them then, talk about a primadonna.

lowrads · February 2006

EVE is a bad PVE game. In fact, it is probably among the worst PVE games ever developed.

Why CCP persists in developing content like deadspace, cosmos, archaeology, hacking and all that other nonsense is simply for marketting in the hopes that giving those unattached to the game will have enough time to get attached to the interesting content developed by the community.

The average lifespan of an account is 7 months. It's kindof viewed as the breaking point on whether a member is going to stick around.

Mining sucks because the players made it that way. Jetcan mining was never an intended feature. It was just something the players figured out in the first week of beta. The devs erred on leniency, and the game has suffered for it ever since.

EVE is about:
1)PvP
2)Community tools/websites
3)Inventing and marketing new services
4)POS empires
5)The market & research (currently weak and in need of improvement to t1)
6)Politics. Some realpolitik and some plain old whorum foring.

Also, cepters, frigs, and some cruisers can dogfight. Being able to dictate range by default is important, but so is knowing how to manage your transversal on the fly.

Azirophos · March 2006

Originally posted by lowrads
Mining sucks because the players made it that way. Jetcan mining was never an intended feature. It was just something the players figured out in the first week of beta. The devs erred on leniency, and the game has suffered for it ever since.

Why did the use of jetcans make Mining suckie?

Originally posted by lowrads
EVE is about:
1)PvP
2)Community tools/websites
3)Inventing and marketing new services
4)POS empires
5)The market & research (currently weak and in need of improvement to t1)
6)Politics. Some realpolitik and some plain old whorum foring.

EVE is about:
1) Fun (not giggling all day, but actually enjoying the things you do)
2) Working together for a goal
3) Freedom of action
4) PvE
5) PvP
6) Politics / Diplomacy

You see? Everyone has other things that he likes about a given game. What may be important to you is maybe of no importance to others (eg, I couldnt care less about community tools and websites). Even *IF* EVE is centered around PvP (which I don't deny ofc), I only engage in it if I am forced to - I dont seek it, yet I am there for over 2 years now. (yes that includes non combat PvP too).

SobaMan · March 2006

Originally posted by SnaKey

3. When you are Warping, you're in a hyperwarp. You're not matter, but you are energy because you are moving at the speed of light. The site's backstory details everything pretty well. They even explain why you can talk to other ppl in different systems in real time, in an RP sense. It's pretty cool actually.... bet you didn't think about that in your realism? :-P

We travel faster than the speed of light, actually. We travel in AUs (Astronomical Units) which is the speed of light multiplied by something, but I can't remember what. I'm no scientist, I just remember a very long thread about it a while back.

An AU may actually only be equal to the speed of light, but we travel at many several AUs per second... or something like that...

Azirophos · March 2006

Originally posted by SobaMan
We travel faster than the speed of light, actually. We travel in AUs (Astronomical Units) which is the speed of light multiplied by something, but I can't remember what. I'm no scientist, I just remember a very long thread about it a while back. An AU may actually only be equal to the speed of light, but we travel at many several AUs per second... or something like that...

AU is not a speed or time measurement, but distance.
AU = Astronomical Unit = the average distance Earth-Sun = 150 (roughly) Million km
So the be able to use it as speed you need to add time (just like eg m/h, m/s, etc), in the case of EVE AU/seconds.

Since light from the Sun takes about 8 minutes to reach the sun it travels at roughly 1/480th AU per second.
So if a ship in EVE travels at 3 AU per second it travels at about 1440 times the speed of light.

@ topic: EVE is a game. Not an SF, but Space Opera. The difference is that the latter doesnt take physical laws too precisely by the word. So you have ships that actually decelerate after you stop to give them thrust, and which have a top speed etc. Those restrictions are there to enable good playability. If somebody starts to pick that apart, then I can only say he is bored to hell, and definitely needs to get laid. I simply can't understand people trying to put in logic into a world that is full of imaginative work, illogical to the core, yet that is what makes it fun too. It simply works, it doesn't matter how or why - and I say that as an RP-geek.

brihtwulf · March 2006

He has just as much a right to post about why he dislikes EVE as much as you can post about why you think it's the best game ever. People have different expereinces and different expectations of games they play. EVE takes a certain kind of person to enjoy it, and it's not for everyone. That's perfectly clear. Some people think that EVE is perfectly exciting for them, and that's ok. Other think that it's slow-paced, boring, and the fact that you have to sit and wait in the game for about 6 months to a year of your subscription to be capable to playing higher aspects of the game is quite rediculous. (That's obviously one of my personal complaints about the game.)

So don't come in high-jacking his thread and complaining about his complaints. This is not the EVE forums, this is for the entire MMO gaming community, and if he doesn't like the game and wants to post a thread about why, then he can. Some people find it useful. And while there may be a number of threads already about this same thing, they often end up at the bottom of the list after all the other EVE-loving posts talking about why they can't get enough of the solitaire-esque action. If you want to refute his claims, then post legitimate responses like everyone else.

SobaMan · March 2006

Originally posted by Azirophos

Originally posted by SobaMan
We travel faster than the speed of light, actually. We travel in AUs (Astronomical Units) which is the speed of light multiplied by something, but I can't remember what. I'm no scientist, I just remember a very long thread about it a while back. An AU may actually only be equal to the speed of light, but we travel at many several AUs per second... or something like that...

AU is not a speed or time measurement, but distance.
AU = Astronomical Unit = the average distance Earth-Sun = 150 (roughly) Million km
So the be able to use it as speed you need to add time (just like eg m/h, m/s, etc), in the case of EVE AU/seconds.

Since light from the Sun takes about 8 minutes to reach the sun it travels at roughly 1/480th AU per second.
So if a ship in EVE travels at 3 AU per second it travels at about 1440 times the speed of light.

TY.

SnaKey · March 2006

Originally posted by SobaMan
We travel faster than the speed of light, actually.

Actually..... I put that in at first. But I wasn't sure and didn't want to get flamed if I was wrong so one of my edits in the original post changed that.
::::02::

scaramoosh · March 2006

Erm they said new tech allowed 1 pod to control the wholeeeee ship

Minsc · March 2006

Originally posted by brihtwulf
Other think that it's slow-paced, boring, and the fact that you have to sit and wait in the game for about 6 months to a year of your subscription to be capable to playing higher aspects of the game is quite rediculous. (That's obviously one of my personal complaints about the game.)

This is a fallacy and has been disproven multiple times. The average amount of sp that characters have in this game is between 1-10 million skill points, with the majority being between 1 and 2 million sp and 5-10 million sp. Vets are by far in the minority in this game numbers-wise, so in fact you are more likely to be facing off against someone with less than 10 million sp than someone with more. If you focus your skill training you can be highly competative in the game in 3 months or less. SP are meaningless except in regards to character versitility. 90% of the sp in a skill come from traning from level 4 to 5. Training from 4 to 5 generally gives you no more than a 5% boost to whatever area the skill covers. A person can train around 10 skills to level 4 in the time it takes 1 skill to train to level 5.

Link to dev blog with character count by sp amount: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=310

jimmyman99 · March 2006

Originally posted by manarak
OK, I just gave a try to EVE.
I did not get to like this game for several reasons:
- it is so slow and unintensive. I spent most of my time travelling from one system to the other using the autopilot. it is the only game that I have seen so far during which you can do something else while playing. I for example did pay bills and fill up my tax declaration while waiting for my ship to reach destination.

This was my turn off point the first 5 times i tried Eve. I got past it by first finding a good spot to call home, then by bookmarking all interesting parts of the system and region. I have set up 8 jump trade run which I do without autopilot at all. And it takes about 5-7 minutes to do it since bookmarks take me right on top of a jumpgate/star base, and not 15km away from it.

- a major turnoff is that you cannot pilot your ship. oh you can tell it what to do, but you cannot fight dogfights with it. combat sums up to targeting your opponent, and telling your weapons to fire on him with missiles/lasers/projectiles whatever you have. there are some electronic tricks that you can use, and you will have to manage your energy levels in shields and weapons in tougher combats. but that's it.I think I would have enjoyed the game more if this had been implemented as in Freelancer.

I agree. I would also love having full comntroll of my ship Freelancer style.

- the world and the skills/ships are very unrealistic.

I disagree, to each own opinion though. I personaly love Eve graphics so much, I would probably pay to play Eve just so that I could snap some screenshots and put them as desktop wallpaper. But as I said, different people have different opinions.

- For example, while I understand that if you're flying any one-seat type of craft, yourself need to be qualified enough to use some equipment, I cannot understand that when you have a battlecruiser with maybe 600-700 crew onboard, there are not other crewmembers able to use the complicated stuff for you.

Not sure I understand you. You mean that large ships should have large crews? if so, that is a valid point, but is very hard to implement and balance because if you make 500 people or even 5 people crew a requirement, then you will not be able to fly that ship. You will depend entirely on other people.

- Also even on huge ships, you have a very limited number of "modules" you can mount on your ship. On a battlecruiser that probably measures several hundred meters in length, you can only mount a handful of devices that weigh about 20 kilos each. not that it would matter if it was 1 ton each: the game simply does not take into account the size.

Good observation. They did this for balancing reasons. Still, thruster module for frigate would be much smaller then thruster module for a carrier. A sort of "larger ship - larger module size" philosophy that keeps the amount of modules installed to a more or less reasonable amount.

- You gain skills as (real) time passes. This concept is not bad to circumvent powerleveling, but then I learned that certain characters are better at creation than others, because they learn quicker, and even more quicker if you learn the "learning skills" at the beginning. Of course there is one race and one occupation that one should choose to then learn the skils as quick as possible... In my opinion that is pretty dumb.

This system has bad and good points. I agree with you on this one. Its just a different from other MMOs model.

- Then there is the small detail that you can pass through planets, spacestations and other ships.

Definitely a bad side of the game, but not critical IMHO.

- Another interesting point is that though there are no levels in this game, they have been replaced by something else that is as effective as levels. The level of your skills and your money determine how good your ship is, and the level of your skills is determined by the time you have played the game.

Right. This game is skill based, rather then level based. I personally preffer it this way, because skill based model allows new players to more or less fairly compete with old players. 2-3 new players can sucessfully gang up on 1 player who played Eve for 2 years and win, if they know what they are doing. Personal skill matters a lot in combat.

- I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.

No comment.

- The game also has the same realism flaw as all other games: the enemy ships are weakest where your NPC allies are strongest. This always baffles me: why are so-called noob hunting grounds always near cities with lots of guards, etc? Whould you as an ork mother/father send your youngsters play near with the city?

Im not following your logic. In my opinion, new players should start in easy zone, with little danger to make their learning experience more enjoyable and less...painfull. As you venture out into the wilderness and learn about the game, you get into tougher and more dangerous areas. That is the common model and it makes sense. I doubt anyone would like to start a new game just to see a high level pirate at the starting location killing everyone in 1 shot over and over.

Conclusion: the game is definitely addicting for the mining/development type of player, but it wasn't for me. To give you an idea how intensive the game experience is: I wrote this whole post while doing 8 system jumps, traveling.

Im sorry to hear that. I believe I went through what you are going through right now several times. I tried Eve (trials) about 5 times. Twice, I didnt last more then 5 hours becuase the UI was too complicated, or because I didnt know what to do. But since Eve reminded me so much of Elite (old skool space trading/pirating game), i kept coming back and trying again. Finaly, I think I found the "flow" of Eve. I think the most important in Eve for a rookie pilot is finding things to do and not falling into routine. Although some people enjoy routine grind, nobody likes to be bored. I escaped from boredom by doing several things, alternating between them when I feel boredom creeping up on me.

First thing you should do, regardless of your profession, is to find a good system where you can mine/reprocess ore, also manufacture stuff (mainly ammo if u r not into manufacturing) and pref a research station. A good idea to find a system which sells skill books, since u will need a lot of those.

Second, clearly identify what you want to be - Miner, trader, hunter or just annoying pirate. The choice is yours. Once u do that, check the tree path of skills where you want to get first (plan ahead if u want to be able to use a cruiser without the use of complicated modules, or youd rather use frig with really good equpment).

Once u r settled, bookmark all travel paths around u. Best to do it in a shuttle - very fast and nimble. I bookmarked all my usual travel paths, trading route, mining routes, all nearby systems as far as 8 jumps away. - this alone might take some time, so dont try to complete this task in one day - alternating between jobs is the key.

After this, you would probably have enough money to buy your next ship. Most likely a better frigate. If u r a miner, buy the one with mining bonuses...etc. You can alternate between mining/hunting/hauling/missions/exploring. For fun u can also PvP, but i suggest u do it with your starter ship and starter equipment, they dont cost anything and u get a new starting crap everytime u lose your ship. Just dont do it in 0.5 zones, you will get attacked by police. If u do it in 0.1-0.4 zones u wont get attacked by police (unless they are nearby) but your rating may get hit.

If u hunt a lot, u may find it difficult to find enemy, they dont respawn fast enough. U might have to travel in between systems to keep fighting. Bookmarks will be your friend here. You can also hunt rare ores, omber can be sometimes found in 0.6 zones, good money there, on 2-3 hours u can earn 2 mils mining it.

There are so many things you can do in Eve. Eve isnt the most friendly game to rookie pilots, but once u find your path, the possibilities are endless. I cant wait till iget mining barge 3 and start raking in big $$ from mining rare ores. Hope my advice helps. If not, good luck with your next game.

PegasusJF · March 2006

Originally posted by manarak
OK, I just gave a try to EVE.
I did not get to like this game for several reasons:
- it is so slow and unintensive. I spent most of my time travelling from one system to the other using the autopilot. it is the only game that I have seen so far during which you can do something else while playing. I for example did pay bills and fill up my tax declaration while waiting for my ship to reach destination.

That much is true, I personally like that feature. There are however ways to sidestep this. There is a skill in EVE called Infomorph Psychology. Pretty much the gist of it is you can "clone jump" from station to station, regardless of distance. There are restrictions to this, (req 8.0 corp and personal standing with an NPC corp and you can jump only every 24 hours) but there are ways to circumvent the standings req. But it requires a little effort and time.

But first, you need access to a 0.0 station, many of the alliances you need to be a member of to dock in such a station, but there are exceptions, most notably the Interstellar Starbase Syndicate.

First, you need to inquire with them or other guys (ISS have free for all OUtposts in Catch and Pure Blind (Iss Marginalis and Borealis) and there are other free access outposts in Pure Blind) regarding their jump clone installation policy, if the outposts managers let you, you can install a jump clone there.

You'll have to do some searching, and I don't speak for the ISS or any other freespace 0.0 entity, so you'll have to bring this up with them.

You return to your favorite empire system, and then you jump back to your 0.0 jump clone. The end result is you have a jump clone in that empire station REGARDLESS of your standings with the npc corp.

Pretty much from there, you can go to other hubs of your activity, and jump back and forth between your clones, depending on your skill lvl. And always leave a jump clone in the station you just left, ready to go.

As far as I can tell, you can do this for the duration you play EVE.

- a major turnoff is that you cannot pilot your ship. oh you can tell it what to do, but you cannot fight dogfights with it. combat sums up to targeting your opponent, and telling your weapons to fire on him with missiles/lasers/projectiles whatever you have. there are some electronic tricks that you can use, and you will have to manage your energy levels in shields and weapons in tougher combats. but that's it.I think I would have enjoyed the game more if this had been implemented as in Freelancer.

It's a matter of preference whether you like EVE's combat/ship control system or not. Sounds like you might like Vendetta Online, I would check that out.

But your description is also an oversimplification. There are many things that go into combat. Range (affected by the stats of your cannons and the range modifiers of your ammo) Damage types (EM, Thermal, KIntec, Explosive, which may be modified by different ammo), damage type resistances, different mods that effect your guns tracking/damage ability, the traversal velocity between you and you target. The Signature Radius (how big you are scan wise) of your ship and your enemies), ECM, ECCM, and the many different means you can equip you ship.

Pretty much every means your ship can hit a target, inflict damage, and take damage can be buffed or debuffed by different setups and components. So there is a lot of meat under the seemingly at first simple combat/control implementation.

- the world and the skills/ships are very unrealistic.
- For example, while I understand that if you're flying any one-seat type of craft, yourself need to be qualified enough to use some equipment, I cannot understand that when you have a battlecruiser with maybe 600-700 crew onboard, there are not other crewmembers able to use the complicated stuff for you.

It's a convention, but since the ship controls are hardwired to your brain, it's not unbelieveable that you gotta train your brain to interface with the ship.

- Also even on huge ships, you have a very limited number of "modules" you can mount on your ship. On a battlecruiser that probably measures several hundred meters in length, you can only mount a handful of devices that weigh about 20 kilos each. not that it would matter if it was 1 ton each: the game simply does not take into account the size.

Again, another convention of the game. But this is not unrealistic either. The battleships of old only had 3-4 main turrets and several smaller guns. The Ticonderoga Cruiser only a limited number of missle launchers of various function. It's a simplification that makes the game easier to play (I can't imagine having to push 20 buttons to get all my guns firing), but like I said, not very unrealistic in naval terms.

- You gain skills as (real) time passes. This concept is not bad to circumvent powerleveling, but then I learned that certain characters are better at creation than others, because they learn quicker, and even more quicker if you learn the "learning skills" at the beginning.

In my experience, any deficencies between different character bloodlines at startup can be taken care of either in A: Simply choosing different schools. or B: a week, absolute max, of training. No bloodline whose character is intellegently created to a specific goal will be behind any other bloodline's character made in a similiar fashion for very long at all.

Of course there is one race and one occupation that one should choose to then learn the skils as quick as possible... In my opinion that is pretty dumb.

How is this different from any other MMO? In class based systems you are in your class and that's it. You become more adept in that particular play style and ablity.

In skill based systems, is it not natural to focus on a particular occupation before you branch out to a whole new occupation? Yes, it's good to specialize in EVE at first, everyone, from the oldest to the newest, will likely have specialized when they started. when you've reached an ability level you're comfortable with, then you can do a little or a lot of branching.

To me, there is nothing wrong with specialization.

- Then there is the small detail that you can pass through planets, spacestations and other ships.

Only in warp, not in regular flight. I can live with that.

- Another interesting point is that though there are no levels in this game, they have been replaced by something else that is as effective as levels. The level of your skills and your money determine how good your ship is, and the level of your skills is determined by the time you have played the game.

Partially true, money and skills define how expensive, big, and/or advanced ships or components you can get, but that doesn't really determine how effective and how much fun you can have in EVE. You can have a blast in a simple frigate equipped with tech 1 items.

Also, as stated before, there are dimishing returns as you advance in lvl for a particular skill.

- I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.

Space is space, pretty, but I admit, exploration is not a big part of EVE atm outside of finding safespotted ships or off grid mineral deposits.

But, I hear the devs are putting more exploration specific features into the Kali expansion, so that's a wait and see type of thing.

Deadspace missions can be HARD and challenging, so I enjoy them. More so than fighting rats in belts or gates. Plus they give you other rewards, like specific loot and even special ships and implants. Ad the lore gives reasons for the deadspace's particularites, enough to suspend my disbelief.

- The game also has the same realism flaw as all other games: the enemy ships are weakest where your NPC allies are strongest. This always baffles me: why are so-called noob hunting grounds always near cities with lots of guards, etc? Whould you as an ork mother/father send your youngsters play near with the city?

This has been answered to my satisfaction earlier in this thread.

Conclusion: the game is definitely addicting for the mining/development type of player, but it wasn't for me. To give you an idea how intensive the game experience is: I wrote this whole post while doing 8 system jumps, traveling.

Well, sorry you don't like EVE. Hope you enjoy the other MMOs that are around.

God Bless

PegasusJF

EDIT: fixed some post editing errors

blucommunist · March 2006

Originally posted by brihtwulf
He has just as much a right to post about why he dislikes EVE as much as you can post about why you think it's the best game ever. People have different expereinces and different expectations of games they play. EVE takes a certain kind of person to enjoy it, and it's not for everyone. That's perfectly clear. Some people think that EVE is perfectly exciting for them, and that's ok. Other think that it's slow-paced, boring, and the fact that you have to sit and wait in the game for about 6 months to a year of your subscription to be capable to playing higher aspects of the game is quite rediculous. (That's obviously one of my personal complaints about the game.)
So don't come in high-jacking his thread and complaining about his complaints. This is not the EVE forums, this is for the entire MMO gaming community, and if he doesn't like the game and wants to post a thread about why, then he can. Some people find it useful. And while there may be a number of threads already about this same thing, they often end up at the bottom of the list after all the other EVE-loving posts talking about why they can't get enough of the solitaire-esque action. If you want to refute his claims, then post legitimate responses like everyone else.

Amen. Personally, talking about bad aspects of a game is just as imporant as good. I argue EVE is for the older crowd, since it requires some patience. I like some "hack n' slash" games like AO and DAOC but I tried EVE and liked it. However, the ENORMOUS DOWN TIME is the real issue. From what I read in earlier posts it seems there isnt much work being done to stop exploits and gankers. THat kind of behavior can really make a game hard for newcomers. As a old hand at AO I am VERY VERY well aquainted with Ganking in all its forms (and glory ::::40:: ) but its no fun when unchecked. I read that closer to authorties there are less criminal acts, well thats fine but if you want to keep and attract new players there needs to be some limits on older players praying on n00bs.

binjuice · March 2006

Newer players are placed into the most heavily, almost gank proof, area. And when they do go to any area's of the game that allows them to be killed without any problems, They have massive warnings. So when a player does leave the super safe area (about 1/5 of the gam space) it is because they consent the danger.

Ranma13 · March 2006

The issue is not with people declaring that they don't like a certain game. It's because they either give no reason or give really poor reasons and that's what riles people up. Let's take the original poster for example:

- it is so slow and unintensive. I spent most of my time travelling from one system to the other using the autopilot. it is the only game that I have seen so far during which you can do something else while playing.

You mean, as opposed to holding down w to run forward in other games?

- a major turnoff is that you cannot pilot your ship. oh you can tell it what to do, but you cannot fight dogfights with it. combat sums up to targeting your opponent, and telling your weapons to fire on him with missiles/lasers/projectiles whatever you have. there are some electronic tricks that you can use, and you will have to manage your energy levels in shields and weapons in tougher combats. but that's it.

This is a technology limitation. Besides, what you described for combat is exactly like almost every other MMO; hit tab to target an opponent, turn on auto-attack, then you have skills that you can use but you have to watch your MP. As for comparing it to Freelancer, there's a reason why Freelancer servers can only hold ~60, whereas EVE has upwards of 12,000 people.

- the world and the skills/ships are very unrealistic.

A sword that makes you smarter or faster simply by holding it is not realistic. A piece of high-level cloth armor that gives you more defense than a lower-level plate armor is not realistic. Being able to shoot fireballs out of thin air and summon monsters at will is not realistic.

- For example, while I understand that if you're flying any one-seat type of craft, yourself need to be qualified enough to use some equipment, I cannot understand that when you have a battlecruiser with maybe 600-700 crew onboard, there are not other crewmembers able to use the complicated stuff for you.

What difference would it make if the game said you have a crew of 600-700 instead of just you? You'd still have to pilot the ship by yourself. Unless you want to get 600-700 players/NPCs on one ship just so you can fly it...

- Also even on huge ships, you have a very limited number of "modules" you can mount on your ship. On a battlecruiser that probably measures several hundred meters in length, you can only mount a handful of devices that weigh about 20 kilos each. not that it would matter if it was 1 ton each: the game simply does not take into account the size.

It's a game-balancing technique. It wouldn't be really fun to have a battleship that no frigate force, no matter how big, can destroy. Plus, it's easier to control 8 modules/weapons instead of hundreds of them. To make a comparison, imagine you have a super star destroyer from Star Wars. Ok, now you have to control it all by yourself. Oh, and your enemy is forced to use x-wings to destroy you. Not much fun for either of you, now is it?

- You gain skills as (real) time passes. This concept is not bad to circumvent powerleveling, but then I learned that certain characters are better at creation than others, because they learn quicker, and even more quicker if you learn the "learning skills" at the beginning. Of course there is one race and one occupation that one should choose to then learn the skils as quick as possible... In my opinion that is pretty dumb.

This is a common misinterpretation. I seriously think CCP should rename skills to research. Unlike in other MMORPGs, skills do not dictate what your character can and cannot do; it merely only gives you options. To make a comparison, a priest in other MMORPGs is the same as every other priest; you get the same exact skills and can do exactly the same things. There might be slight differences here and there but for the most part it's exactly the same. You also cannot take a level 30 character and expect to win over a level 50 character. In EVE, however, just because someone's flying the same ship, doesn't mean that it does exactly what your ship does. Every config is different. Plus, lower-level characters can and frequently do trounce the upper level characters. I have ~12 million SP and I've been defeated by players who only have 2 million. Likewise, I've defeated characters with ~15 million SP just as easily. Skills do not make your character in EVE, you do. Your skills simply give you options.

- Then there is the small detail that you can pass through planets, spacestations and other ships.

Ok, let's make it so that only you can run into planets, stations, and other ships. I'd think that you'd have a much bigger complaint than you do about not being able to hit them.

- Another interesting point is that though there are no levels in this game, they have been replaced by something else that is as effective as levels. The level of your skills and your money determine how good your ship is, and the level of your skills is determined by the time you have played the game.

There are no levels because there are no levels to compare. A level 10 character in another game will always be weaker than a level 50 character. In EVE, having 20 mil skill points doesn't say anything about your character's ability. As I mentioned earlier, I have ~12 mil skill points, but most of them are focused towards mining and refining. As a result, I have little combat skills and someone with only 2 million SP can easily beat me. So does that mean I should be level 12 and they should be level 2, and thus they shouldn't even be able to touch me at all?

- I tried exploring a bit, but the environment is the same in all systems. A station here and there, some asteroids, some pirates, and sometimes a "dungeon"! Yes, you read correctly. There are so-called "deadspaces", that can only be accessed through "accelerator gates" - regardless of the fact that we are in space! You can fly out of these deadspaces, but not fly in...Anyway, inside a deadspace, it is almost as boring as outside except for some enemies.

You complain about realism and then you bring this point up. Ever seen space? Yeah, pretty empty, isn't it? Accelerator gates are used to propel you to a certain coordinate; otherwise, you wouldn't even know where they are.

- The game also has the same realism flaw as all other games: the enemy ships are weakest where your NPC allies are strongest. This always baffles me: why are so-called noob hunting grounds always near cities with lots of guards, etc? Whould you as an ork mother/father send your youngsters play near with the city?

Because it's for protection and for fun. Ok, let's make the enemy ships just as strong as the NPC allies. Oops, you can't kill anything. In fact, you can't even get a shot out before you're dead. And there's no newbie hunting grounds anywhere.

See, everyone has their complaints about games, even the ones they currently play. That I'm fine with. What I don't like to see is people who play a game, don't like it, and proceed to give out the lamest reasons why they didn't enjoy the game. Most of the time it's their own ignorance, or they play the game expecting x but actually get y, then complain about it, like the OP. He starts playing EVE expecting Everquest, and when it doesn't play anything like it he points out all the stuff that applies to other MMORPGs but not EVE.

Osire · March 2006

I would fully disagree with most of these things, but they have already been said. ::::20::

Cymek · March 2006

I didn't read this whole thread yet (about 10 posts) but I thought I'd put this in.

People can argue until green in the face that this game sux or this is the best MMO out right now.

The fact of the matter is, people who enjoy action/adventure/quest games will not be much into EVE and have a lot of fun in WOW.

People who want a sandbox style game will get bored with WoW and love EVE.

EVE is what one of my favorite SciFi authors would call a "Playground of the Mind". You have to work at EVE and the content provides itself.

Others like to be entertained in a more passive/directed way.

It is all a matter of taste and personality.

Statistically speaking, hardcore sandbox gamers are a much rarer breed than the other type I mentioned...therefore EVE would be considered a niche game.

So if you tried EVE, read up on it, and hated it, then you would probable have a blast in WoW.

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just tried EVE - I don't like it, here is why

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