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My perspective on Eve.....
Rekindle
Member UncommonPosts: 1,206
A period of instability began in NORAD when the alliance's mega-corps (BNC, NM, MM) dissolved or moved on as huge nomadic corporations looking for fame and excitement throughout the entire universe of Eve. The loss of the bulk of NORAD's military force left the alliance weak and vulnerable, while the remaining corporations failed to work together as they once had.
Outer Ring's relative peace ended when a large group of more than twenty corporations from the fallen Curse Alliance chose Outer Ring as their new home. The initial war was intense with large fleet battles between xCA and NORAD/Allied forces (Xetic, FA, 3rd Front, and others helped at the start of the conflict). As time went on it became clear to NORAD members that they were hopelessly outnumbered and could not fight xCA (later Imperium <IMP>) in a conventional manner.
Thus the guerrilla war began. It started with the remaining combat ready corporations of CHON, Roving Guns, Yakuza, Times of Ancar, 9th Army CMC, Waffles, JOSTDA and Dreamscape, but as time went on corporations had to cut their losses and leave Outer Ring. For some it was temporary, for others Outer Ring will never again be their home. This went on for months until CHON alone fought Imperium forces under Rira Vanga's command with its then EvE-wide famous guerrilla tactics.
Imperium began to weaken with a combination of internal strife, external war and the long sustained attacks on them from CHON and xNORAD forces. In May 2005 talk began between CHON and xNORAD members of building back the alliance and inviting new members in to defeat Imperium once and for all and re-claim the Outer Ring region.
As of now, new members and old are joining to fight the good fight and regain Outer Ring for the good side. This is truly the re-birth of an old and great alliance. For it to be successful its members will have to learn from the mistakes of the past and keep together as a family of corporations, as one nation founded on the principles of democracy and honor. Whatever future friends or wars may bring, one thing is for sure: NORAD will always have a place in the history books and will doubtless leave it's mark on the future.
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The above was taken directly from the NORAD (EvE alliance) Website. http://igb.eve-norad.org/
You can go into the game search on corp/char names and find them there.
The reason I posted it here was to give you an idea of the types of conflicts that can arise in EvE. EvE isn't about me me me and how many rocks I can mine or rats I can blow up. THe people who play the game that way are the ones that come back here and post they can't figure out "what the big deal is".
The story reprinted above actually unfolded in game by the players through their affiliations to Corporations and alliances. This wasn't some fabricated story made up to for pretend time......Although I wasn't there to witness it, the events above happened in the EvE universe in real time.
This is what makes this game good. Its not the rats or the mining, its the sense of purpose and the unfolding of huge political and military events that give this game its life blood. Thats why the WoW Kiddies can't figure out eve. The game isn't about sitting on a treadmill to advance your character through NPC content until you get bored and new content comes out to "consume".
Only play EvE if you can see that its a game about struggle and conflict with fellow players. Your sense of reward or failure oft times comes from other players. The ones who get the most enjoyment out of this game are the ones that see the content, the quests, the story line....virtually everything that happens in your game time, isn't manfactuered by a pre-programmed quest engine, but by the players and their interactions.
CCP has created a true masterpiece of genius that encompasses what a MMORPG should be.
Comments
That is by FAR the biggest reason why I will continue to play the game for years to come.
And why I'm continually bugging my CEO to move us into 0.0 Even if it is only 5 jumps from 0.1 or above...
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
I know dozens of such stories and events, and I experienced a lot of turning points in EVE first hand or via close m8s (the end of the free Period Basis, the UFS/FA war, the beginning of the Great Northern War, etc.). The storyline that results out of players interacting is amazing, and at least as interesting/funny/exciting as that of a good SF book. Thinking about it, you could already fill a book with the player "generated" storyline alone.
And yes, only people who can look beyond "I have to mine all day" or "Missions are boring" can see the full potential and wonder of EVE.
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Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
It truly amazes me how so many play the game and dont this history or the chance to make new history.
You've hit the nail on the head, there, Rekindle, pretty much as you "won" that other thread when you quoted, and answered to, Lamethrower.
A few months ago I gave WoW a shot along with a few friends from EvE. As one of them stated after only a few hours of methodical grinding, "WoW is a Massively Singleplayer Online RPG". As a player, I had no impact whatsoever on the storyline; hell, I didn't have an impact on any other player to begin with. The only form of association was greed-driven only : associate to run an instance and win loot, or associate to run battlegrounds and win honor.
In EvE, players write history, and become part of it. I've been through the entire GNW - as a matter of fact, I've lost my first battleship during the initial fleet engagement of that war, the "Massacre of P-FSQE", where a joyful, eager fleet of 80-some ships was thoroughly annihilated by a fleet twice its size. The way we were all kidding & giggling on our way to combat reminded me of these old pre-WWI film reels where you see troops singing and giggling on their way to the frontlines with flowers plucked into their rifle barrels (I'm not equating the importance of human losses to pixel explosions, however, please do not misread me).
EvE is filled to the brim with such player stories and history - (in)famous pirate corporations, heroic players, major sabotage coups, epic fleet battles, shady diplomatic deals, and major propaganda campaigns. That's what EvE is really about.
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While an amusing story, the problem I have with EVE is that playing the game is nothing at all like what you quoted; the story that you're using to demonstrate 'what makes eve great' doesn't even touch on the activities that you'll actually be spending most of your gametime on. Those fleets that clashed don't come about from holding systems or any kind or automated process, they're exist because individual players spent hours and days and weeks mining, ratting, mission running (for blueprints) to make the ships, plus more hours of mostly seeing 'warp drive active' while moving things from location to location. There were far, far more player hours spent on these completely unmentioned activities than on the battles described.
Sure, some people get to be a higher-up in a corp and pass the scut work off to others, but a new player coming in is far more likely to be stuck with endless mining for those fleets than be given an 'officer' spot and allowed to just fight. Well, actually a new player is probably not going to even be able to join a member corp, most established corps don't actually accept players less than six months or so old (mainly to avoid alt infiltration). Even when you're not stuck mining etc, you'll be hanging around camping a gate or using the scanner (with it's incredibly bad interface) to try to track someome who's jumping around in system since the actual big battles are pretty rare.
So, even getting to be able to join the events described by the story requires months of playing, then once you're able to qualify for one of the corps you'll spend most of your time on activities not considered worth mentioning in the story. If you enjoy the stuff not described in the story, or can get other people to do it for you (like Tom Sawyer whitewashing) then great, but otherwise the ratio of actual fun game to unfun 'game' time is going to be pretty atrocious. I found reading about eve to be more fun than actually playing EVE.
(This might end up as a double-post, the original didn't seem to show).
lol you make it sound like the miners, haulers and builders are out there doing their thing because the 3 year old vets with tech 2 ships and 30 mil SP have guns to their heads. While those flying around 0.0 are recylcing enough rat loot to build a BS in a week - doesn't add up.
I think its a little near sighted to suggest that. It is true that corps can be a little hesitant to recruit people on their two week trials but 6 month characters? I agree to disagree with you.
I never had your aforementioned problems. If I did, i'd probably tell the CEo to go to hell and make my own corp...but thats just me.
Recycling rat loot falls under ratting, and I sad that those fleets only "exist because individual players spent hours and days and weeks mining, ratting, mission running (for blueprints) to make the ships,". 1 week of ratting per BS? Sounds like you're agreeing that hours, days, and weeks of player-time goes into creating the ships. Time that is actually much more than the duration of the battle, so like I said more of the game time goes to activities not even mentione in the story.
I didn't say anything remotely about anyone holding a gun to anyone's head or problems with a specific CEO, I have no idea where you got that idea.
In order to support a full-scale war, you need to have a stable source of income from activities such as mining. The isk doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And not everyong is going to be able to see the big picture because then everyone would be their own CEO.
May I ask where do the metals required for a Bullet come from, the refined powders? These all take many, many man hours to make. Just for 1 bullet, then think of missles and Tanks, etc etc. The way Eve is set upp is truelly realistic. everything is created like we do it. Thats why it takes so long. and so Thats the point.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
1.) Nobody said you NEED to be in a Battleship (or more expensive ship). Many ships of a fleet are support ships which are cruisers and frigates - and dont tell me you need a week or even days to replace one of those.
2.) You don't lose a ship in every battle. E.g. my Tempest survived 5 skirmishes, and one of the biggest fleetfights of lately (around 200 people involved).
3.) Many corps have ship-prorgams to replace lost ships in PvP ops for the corp.
4.) You ARE aware that the battlefield is only part of the whole, and NOT everything? When I was more involved in politics and the "bigger" events I haven't fought even once a PvP battle, yet I was involved, could influence things, and often I was in the middle of them.
Atm, the Alliance my corp is in has a war campaign against an other one. We support others in their fight, while those other alliances secure the space with POSes. You really think that is something that just works in a few days, or is resolved with one big battle? The whole thing evolved into a nice war with several large engagements (including a battle involving about a dozen Dreadnoughts) and station sieges. This is something that takes weeks and months to resolve, not because of weak mechanics, but because warfare (at this level) is highly complex and needs time - sometimes we kick them, other times we get kicked. Yet, I can say that I was there at several of those battles, and that I did my (albeit small) part in deciding those battles in our favour. And yes, ofc there are gaps between the fights, but those are mainly used to mine or get cash to support the war. Although a few, who are on the frontlines all the time.
LOL, have you ever been in a 0.0 corp? I mean one that can hold its ground for more than a week if under attack?? Every character, no matter the experience is *required* to participate. It's nothing that you need to "deserve", but is even expected. If you refer to be a fleet commander, then yes, those positions need to be deserved, but be honest... would you want to be responsible for over 100 people? Even if they'd offer me cash I wouldn't do it.------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Binjuice, it looks like you're agreeing with me. I didn't say anything about whether that time was 'realistic' or not, just that it's in the game. You may value that kind of realism enough that it's enjoyable for you, but it's only fair to point out to anyone who might be interested by that story that the story paints an unrealisitic picture of what an EVE playing session actually involves. They could make the game even more realistic by adding a taxation system, but I think fewer people would be interested in playing if they had to also fill out a virtual 1040 form. I personally play games for entertainment, if a game is going to offer 'realistic' drudge work then I'd rather just take a second job and get paid for it.
Azirophos, you need to pay more attention to what you're responding to. I never said that you must fly a battleship in a fleet, or that every fleet gets wiped out in every battle. While you craftily point out that some ships don't take days or weeks to create, I said that people spend "hours and days and weeks" (notice the first time unit listed) creating the ships in the material that you quoted. You mention 'ship-programs' that some corps have to replace ships, but don't explain how the corps avoind having someome spend the time to make the ships for those programs. I didn't say that everything is resolved in one battle, or remotely imply it. Your last paragraph is apparently vehement agreement with me, you say that anyone joining an alliance corp will be required to do the drudge work like I said. You do manage to both deny that anyone gets out of it, then tell me that some people do get out of it.
EVE is the first game were the relationsship of economic power, political power and military power is realistic. In EVE you need to care about logistics also, it is not an adhoc battle but strategic warfare. And thats it what makes it worth playing, because it needs corps and alliances to make it happen, you are nothing alone, not a tank warrior like in other MMOs. EVE is for teams and interaction is really important - it is truely MMO and player-driven.
Ragosch
Im curious as to why your listing eve's other gameplay aspects as negatives. I know that out of mining, ratting, and mission running I only find mining boring but then there are people out there (obviously) that don't. It definitely does not take a week to make enough isk for a battle ship either, maybe in empire but out in 0.0 isk is ludicrously easy to make - easily able to make enough isk for a bs in one day. The sense of being part of something much bigger is what makes eve special for me yes, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the otheraspects of the game.
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Actually, I'm listing EVE's gameplay as gameplay and pointing out that the story listed doesn't touch on the activities that you actually spend lots of time on in-game. I don't have a high opinion of EVE's PVE play, but my opinion of it is not what's relevant here. What is relevant is that the story of 'what makes EVE great' is extremely divorced from actual gameplay experience, and that even most of the people who like EVE have a low opinion of what you actually spend your time in the game doing.
Look at the original post "[The story quoted] is what makes this game good. Its not the rats or the mining... Thats why the WoW Kiddies can't figure out eve. The game isn't about sitting on a treadmill to advance your character through NPC content until you get bored and new content comes out to 'consume'." While he says the game is not about ratting or mining, or about sitting on a treadmill fighting NPCs to advance your character, that's what you'll actually be spending the majority of your time doing. Azirophos says "And yes, only people who can look beyond "I have to mine all day" or "Missions are boring" can see the full potential and wonder of EVE." So according to him, you need to "look beyond" what you'll actually be doing in the game to see the full potential. RazorJaxx adds "EvE is filled to the brim with such player stories and history... That's what EvE is really about," further saying that the game is really not about what you spend time on in-game.
I, and a lot of other people, play a game for entertainment. If I wanted to do tasks that I (and most of the posters on this thread) do not find fun in order to advance a bigger cause, I'd pick a real cause and not video game team; there are all kinds of charities and political groups that need work done, and I wouldn't even need to pay $10/month to be 'allowed' to do work for them. I'd stick with EVE if I felt I'd actually be enjoying most of my time in-game, but I'm not going to pay CCP to let me work a second job. It's only fair to let people know if the kinds of stories that might interest them in the game are not stories about what you'll actually do in the game.
As simple as it gets...if you don't enjoy playing a game then quit it and don't bother the people who enjoy playing the game.
the original post required that the people who play the game for simply mining and ratting and then get boring of this are the people with short vision, he meant that the game isn't all about mining and ratting.
imo everything is part of everything in EVE, you can't build ships without money, you can't go to war without ships, and you can't make money without ships, and you can't have ships without blueprints, you can't have blueprints without doing some research or having money to buy them from the market, you can't have a market without people putting stuff in the market, you can't have people doing so without those people work their ass mining and ratting.
so in conclusion, ALL what you do in EVE is only a journy for an unknown destination, ALL parts of EVE work together to make the game, if you're a miner that don't like ratting, then you're supplying the minirals for the manufacturers, if you're a ratter that hunts for loot to sell them then you're the supplyer of good loot for other people to use for your banefit.
again as simple as it gets, if you don't like the game don't play it, EVE is better than any other game i've ever played, and yes, MUCH BETTER than WoW, and i don't care about the opinion of the people who love the game, i played the game, quit, came back to it, then quit again for GOOD.
ob1sr, this is a DISCUSSION forum, not a 'sing the praises of a game and shut up if you don't like a particular game' forum. If me discussing a game "bothers" people like you playing the game, then you shouldn't frequent open forums like this, stick to the official forums where you need an active account to post. An allegedly good game should be able to stand on it's own merits, and players of the game should be able to defend it by pointing out good points of the game instead of trying to create a rule that anyone with a dissenting opinion should not speak. All I've argued here is about WHAT you spend time on in game, and I think that the fact that EVE players get "bothered" by someome just pointing out how normal gameplay matches up with a 'what's great in EVE' story speaks volumes. "You can't have people doing so without those people work their ass mining and ratting." is exactly my point.
God I love it when ppl write in proper paragraphs. You're probably the only person on this site who writes properly. Your posts are just so easy to read. I bet you're a english/journalism major, huh? [/endsarcasm]
A Work in Progress.
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