Why are themeparks failing?

l2avism · October 2015

People seem to want a themepark but they are all dead compared to other games. Why are these games failing when they seem to be so hyped? My theory is that you can never make enough content so that your players can't finish all of the rides before the next content patch. Themeparkers claim that they want more themepark games but they always quit the game 2 months later causing themepark games to turn belly up. My theory is that the high cost of developing tons of linear content coupled with the expectation that your players will finish it and leave in two months is preventing game companies from releasing more games for the market.

BeansnBread · October 2015

In the west, themepark MMORPGs have and incredible amount of people playing them in comparison to sandbox MMORPGs. Your generalizations about them don't support the facts. The themepark MMORPGs that actually release their numbers are posting amazing numbers when compared to sandbox MMORPGs.

On a side note, I much prefer sandbox MMORPGs.

Antiquated · October 2015

Been there, done that. The audience is exhausted with them.

whilan · October 2015

Title: Why are sandboxes failing?
First line: People seem to want a sandbox but they are all dead compared to other mmo's. Why are these games failing when they seem so ideal?

Title: Why are themeparks failing?
First line: People seem to want a themepark but they are all dead compared to other games. Why are these games failing when they seem to be so hyped?

Very format letter style, same title, same first few lines, just a few words different to fit the topic. Different poster though. Feel this is more in response to the other post like trying to create some kind of pseudo counter argument rather than an actual interested post like the first one was at least trying to appear it does.

bcbully · October 2015

How many ways can you not stand red? How many ways can you kill/collect stuff. Pve in these games are all the same.

Without a heavy emphasis on pvp and combat you end up with the same old same. Look what gw2 did to TSW, two theme parks. Look at what eso did to Wildstar, again two theme parks. While launching near the same time respectively the two with better pvp and combat nearly shut down the other two.

gervaise1 · October 2015

bcbully said:

How many ways can you not stand red? How many ways can you kill/collect stuff. Pve in these games are all the same.

Without a heavy emphasis on pvp and combat you end up with the same old same. Look what gw2 did to TSW, two theme parks. Look at what eso did to Wildstar, again two theme parks. While launching near the same time respectively the two with better pvp and combat nearly shut down the other two.

I don't agree that GW2 significantly impacted TSW as a result of pvp or that ESO impacted WS for the same reason.

I do agree that pvp can provide a self sustaining "niche" in - what itself is a "niche".

gervaise1 · October 2015

l2avism said:

People seem to want a themepark but they are all dead compared to other games. Why are these games failing when they seem to be so hyped? My theory is that you can never make enough content so that your players can't finish all of the rides before the next content patch. Themeparkers claim that they want more themepark games but they always quit the game 2 months later causing themepark games to turn belly up. My theory is that the high cost of developing tons of linear content coupled with the expectation that your players will finish it and leave in two months is preventing game companies from releasing more games for the market.

The cost of developing content is / can be (relatively) high - something John Smedley articulated clearly when pushing EQL subsequently Landmark and EQN. Many people were paying the "first month subscription + sign up fee", unsubscribing and - maybe - coming back many months later expecting "many months" of new content for which they would pay "a month's sub".

Part of a bigger issue of getting people to pay anything - JR (ex EA CEO) has given some interesting interviews on that. And it may have formed a part of the discussion around the TESO launch - we know there was a discussion on payment models.

I think there is hope if game companies can appeal to a large enough audience - as in many millions - and get everyone to pay something through paid content and (sadly) cash shops. That is not to say that a niche "few hundreds of thousands with sub" game can't survive but it is going to be tough going forward - the obvious example is Eve. (And yes I know about WoW and it isn't developing subscriber content; the FF brand - not XIV specifically - is the other example and there are reasons connected to what a brand is.)

ste2000 · October 2015

OP you need a new pair of glasses.
There are hundreds of Themepark games and most of them are making good money.

Obviously if you expect to see the WoW numbers you chose the wrong benchmark.
WoW is a fluke, a one off event, you are not going to see WoW numbers anytime soon, first of all because the Themepark market is congested, the player base is not infinite, it is all spread out.

But I agree that the Themepark offer at the moment is a bit stale, there is serious lack of innovation, but I am sure that neither Zenimax or Bioware are complaining about their numbers, though I am certain they would like to have the WoW numbers, but as I said WoW is a one off.

l2avism · October 2015

whilan said:

Title: Why are sandboxes failing?
First line: People seem to want a sandbox but they are all dead compared to other mmo's. Why are these games failing when they seem so ideal?

Title: Why are themeparks failing?
First line: People seem to want a themepark but they are all dead compared to other games. Why are these games failing when they seem to be so hyped?

Very format letter style, same title, same first few lines, just a few words different to fit the topic. Different poster though. Feel this is more in response to the other post like trying to create some kind of pseudo counter argument rather than an actual interested post like the first one was at least trying to appear it does.

Actually, as evident by the follow up comments, this is a very relevant argument.
People prefer sandboxes to themeparks because you can beat a themepark in 2 months (if not faster) and then you are bored and unsubscribe.
People prefer themeparks to sandboxes because they are afraid that they might die and lose those precious pixels.
Although themeparkers tend to present the argument like they think that themeparks are superior and the answer to sandbox woes. Of course they have the memory of a goldfish and forget that 99% of themeparks close down after 2 months.

ste2000 · October 2015

l2avism said:
Of course they have the memory of a goldfish and forget that 99% of themeparks close down after 2 months.

That's a bold statement.

Would you mind to list few Themeparks that closed after few months.

Actually to make it easier for you, you are allowed to mention Themeparks that closed after a year.

Hatefull · October 2015

l2avism said:

whilan said:

Title: Why are sandboxes failing?
First line: People seem to want a sandbox but they are all dead compared to other mmo's. Why are these games failing when they seem so ideal?

Title: Why are themeparks failing?
First line: People seem to want a themepark but they are all dead compared to other games. Why are these games failing when they seem to be so hyped?

Very format letter style, same title, same first few lines, just a few words different to fit the topic. Different poster though. Feel this is more in response to the other post like trying to create some kind of pseudo counter argument rather than an actual interested post like the first one was at least trying to appear it does.

Actually, as evident by the follow up comments, this is a very relevant argument.
People prefer sandboxes to themeparks because you can beat a themepark in 2 months (if not faster) and then you are bored and unsubscribe.
People prefer themeparks to sandboxes because they are afraid that they might die and lose those precious pixels.
Although themeparkers tend to present the argument like they think that themeparks are superior and the answer to sandbox woes. Of course they have the memory of a goldfish and forget that 99% of themeparks close down after 2 months.

Ok, 99%? Where are you pulling this "fact" From? Because I think it is far off base and no where close to accurate or a fact for that matter.

Point two I would like you to shed some light on, where is your income comparison between themepark/sandbox games and relevant player bases on said games. That will give us a metric to determine how dead or alive these games tend to be and then we can begin to compare them.

Also, I would like you to point me at a list of themepark games that were around for two months and then closed their servers so we can compare that to the themepark games currently still running and get to the bottom of this 99% figure.

Right now you have some conjecture, made up 'facts' and a lot of opinion. I am not against opinion nor people speaking their mind but if you really want to discuss this, please start posting some facts as a basis of discussion and not some figures you just pulled out of thin air.

BeansnBread · October 2015

l2avism said:
Actually, as evident by the follow up comments, this is a very relevant argument.
People prefer sandboxes to themeparks because you can beat a themepark in 2 months (if not faster) and then you are bored and unsubscribe.
People prefer themeparks to sandboxes because they are afraid that they might die and lose those precious pixels.
Although themeparkers tend to present the argument like they think that themeparks are superior and the answer to sandbox woes. Of course they have the memory of a goldfish and forget that 99% of themeparks close down after 2 months.

99% of themeparks close down after 2 months

you can beat a themepark in 2 months

People prefer themeparks to sandboxes because they are afraid that they might die and lose those precious pixels

Pretty good arguments there. Obviously if you say it, it is true.

whilan · October 2015

l2avism said:

whilan said:

Title: Why are sandboxes failing?
First line: People seem to want a sandbox but they are all dead compared to other mmo's. Why are these games failing when they seem so ideal?

Title: Why are themeparks failing?
First line: People seem to want a themepark but they are all dead compared to other games. Why are these games failing when they seem to be so hyped?

Very format letter style, same title, same first few lines, just a few words different to fit the topic. Different poster though. Feel this is more in response to the other post like trying to create some kind of pseudo counter argument rather than an actual interested post like the first one was at least trying to appear it does.

Actually, as evident by the follow up comments, this is a very relevant argument.
People prefer sandboxes to themeparks because you can beat a themepark in 2 months (if not faster) and then you are bored and unsubscribe.
People prefer themeparks to sandboxes because they are afraid that they might die and lose those precious pixels.
Although themeparkers tend to present the argument like they think that themeparks are superior and the answer to sandbox woes. Of course they have the memory of a goldfish and forget that 99% of themeparks close down after 2 months.

I think you may have misunderstood my post, allow me to further clarify.

In the other thread the person was asking in sort of a inquiring way as to why sandboxes fail when so many seem to want them. Now whether the person asking is actually curious or not is left up to debate. However at least there appears to be a want to find out.

Then a new thread (yours) comes along with almost the exact same title and the format is almost identical to the other post even the same words are used in the same way. This doesn't come off (to me) as someone who is interested to know why theme park games don't work, but more of, trying to provide a counter to that post by saying see themepark games fail to, it's not just sandboxes, though to be fair neither OP actually provides proof of this and proof of non success to back their argument. The interested part was to you not whether the other posters are interested or not. I feel the intent of the other thread was to spark interest in why sandboxes don't work, I feel your intent was just to try and create a counter to that thread, rather than an actual interest in why theme parks don't work.

If you had been interested in actual debate, you would have provided reasoning and wrote an original post not copy pasted the other one and altered a few things to make it match that one.

immodium · October 2015

l2avism said:

People prefer themeparks to sandboxes because they are afraid that they might die and lose those precious pixels.

This statement alone proves you have no idea what a sandbox is. It's ok though, you're not alone.

Bladestrom · October 2015

Themeparks are not dying they are more popular now with more choice that is high quality than any other time in the history of mmorpg. Incidentally sandboxes are not dying either - they are and allways have been a niche sub genre in a niche genre, so you will never have many products.

Amana · October 2015

Just because there's a http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/441356/why-are-sandboxes-failing#latest thread doesn't mean we need a counter thread when the issue may be discussed and comparisons made in the initial thread.

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