Why is Black Desert bad ?

holdenhamlet · November 2015

YashaX said:

DMKano said:

YashaX said:

You have to be careful about trusting the claims some people make on this forum about what features are in the game. Some people seem to have an agenda and have a tendency to skew the truth.

For example I was told there is no player to player trade, then I saw a video with two players exchanging items, some people have painted the crafting system to be simplistic or "single-player", but when I investigated the actual system it looked extremely deep and interesting, they complain that the leveling is fast but fail to point out that the leveling is basically meant as a tutorial, etc.

I doubt the game will be perfect, but there seems to be a lot of half-truths floating around for some reason.

2 players on different accounts CAN'T trade items directly.

There is no player to player trade... how is this is a half truth????

Can you please show us this example of direct player to player trade (like you can do in most MMORPGS where you walk up to a player and exchange items or currency)

Again this does not exist in Black Desert period.

Sure: http://i.imgur.com/CwL7tlg.jpg

From what I've read, that dialogue box comes up but you can't actually trade items in it.

That being said, the reason it's there is to hinder bots/goldsellers, and also mandate trade through the auction house. This serves as a money sink, but more importantly the guild that owns the town where the auction house is that sells an item gets a cut. This makes the GVG important.

The only downside is if you want to gear up a buddy as DMKano says, but not having that seems like a small price to pay to limit goldsellers and promote GVG.

Anyway, as for the OP, it seems to me that the game is absolutely fantastic. A few people want it to be other things but if you take it for what it is, it seems unique and lots of fun.

I'm looking forward to spending at least a few months with the game.

Mothanos · November 2015

If you grind together you can trade drops but you have to be together.

I find it and interesting thing and its a good decision to combat botters and gold sellers even tough it has an impact on trading with each other.

Its a tradeoff and i like it as now you need to go out there and get shit done yourself instead of swiping that creditcardu and buy yourself a fully kitted outfit +20 for a few thousand euro like in Archeage.

I give a thumbs up for Daum on this one even tough many will disagree with this mechanic.

Thebeasttt · November 2015

I've never played Black Desert but I had really high hopes for the game until I watched a few streams. I was turned off by a few things. The asian "warp all over the place" keyspamming combat is a huge minus for me, as are the overexaggerated anime style animations for every little thing you do. That's also what I hated about ArcheAge, as well as, the immersion killing labor point system(which I hear Black Desert mimics? lol).

Everything else about the game looks great but combat is half the game so likely going to pass on this one. I get the same feeling with Crowfall, everything looks good except the combat

holdenhamlet · November 2015

Thebeasttt said:

I've never played Black Desert but I had really high hopes for the game until I watched a few streams. I was turned off by a few things. The asian "warp all over the place" keyspamming combat is a huge minus for me, as are the overexaggerated anime style animations for every little thing you do. That's also what I hated about ArcheAge, as well as, the immersion killing labor point system(which I hear Black Desert mimics? lol).

Everything else about the game looks great but combat is half the game so likely going to pass on this one. I get the same feeling with Crowfall, everything looks good except the combat

The combat is the big selling point of Black Desert. If you don't like it then yeah, it's not going to be the game for you.

Thebeasttt · November 2015

Selling point if you're a 12 year old with ADD maybe.

holdenhamlet · November 2015

Thebeasttt said:

Selling point if you're a 12 year old with ADD maybe.

If you say so. Enjoy your tab target cycling through the same button presses on one mob at a time.

I'll be enjoying the fast-paced PVE in BDO where mobs are so close together they aggro frequently and force you to mix up your skills. Sure it's easy but it's fun.

Tab target should die as far as I'm concerned.

Thebeasttt · November 2015

Who said anything about tab targetting? I'm talking about the constant key spamming, pointless teleport based combat that every other game caters to in order to please a low attention span audience of 12 year olds. If that's your cup of tea more power to ya.

stayontarget · November 2015

Thebeasttt said:

Who said anything about tab targetting? I'm talking about the constant key spamming, pointless teleport based combat that every other game caters to in order to please a low attention span audience of 12 year olds. If that's your cup of tea more power to ya.

LoL I cannot believe you just said that. Makes no sense.

waynejr2 · November 2015

Nanfoodle said:

stonylein said:

Black Desert is bad because it's the 10000th WOW-Clone.

Again a post with no meaning. Why is it a WoW clone? Combat is not the same. Classes are not trinity like in WoW. Graphics and art are not in the same class. PvP is nothing alike. So again, what are you talking about?

Excuse me I just want to jump on the bandwagon and suggest everything is right and wrong about this game! I haven't tried it nor read anything about it including reviews, but I just want to be part of this historic event!

Thebeasttt · November 2015

stayontarget said:

Thebeasttt said:

Who said anything about tab targetting? I'm talking about the constant key spamming, pointless teleport based combat that every other game caters to in order to please a low attention span audience of 12 year olds. If that's your cup of tea more power to ya.

LoL I cannot believe you just said that. Makes no sense.

There's a big difference between not making sense to you and not making sense in general. You probably shouldn't call people out just because you're dull lol.

Krimzin · November 2015

Thebeasttt said:

stayontarget said:

Thebeasttt said:

Who said anything about tab targetting? I'm talking about the constant key spamming, pointless teleport based combat that every other game caters to in order to please a low attention span audience of 12 year olds. If that's your cup of tea more power to ya.

LoL I cannot believe you just said that. Makes no sense.

There's a big difference between not making sense to you and not making sense in general. You probably shouldn't call people out just because you're dull lol.

Hes right. It makes no sense. You are attempting to insult people by saying the player base is made up of low attention 12 year olds. Sounds to me like you're just not happy with anything and want someone or something to blame. Every game out there is made up of button spamming. Whether its targeted or non targeted, its still the same button spam. If you want a non target attack system, play Wildstar.

Kajidourden · November 2015

At least it made my decision about this VS Blade and soul easy lol. I had high hopes, and then everything I've read makes me say "Nope!" a little more each time.

Kajidourden · November 2015

DMKano said:

Here's something to consider (shows how absurd the no-player trade system is)

Lets say a buddy of yours or SO decides they want to play Black Desert with you after you've been playing for a while already.

So you decide oh cool I want to give them some gear and money to help them out. ...

How do you do it?

You cant.

Yeah the only way is through Auction House and since the min/max pricing is enforced by the devs, you cant even do it there.

Yes this is the actual system in Black Desert

Not the exact same thing but things like this is one of the reasons ESO is shit. Phasing (and this market control BS) has a purpose, sure....doesn't mean it's a good idea.

holdenhamlet · November 2015

Thebeasttt said:

Who said anything about tab targetting? I'm talking about the constant key spamming, pointless teleport based combat that every other game caters to in order to please a low attention span audience of 12 year olds. If that's your cup of tea more power to ya.

Any action combat is going to have dodge (what you call teleport), and it's a good thing. As for constant key spamming, you do that in any MMO worth a salt. BDO is better because you have to adjust your combos based on soft cooldowns and as more mobs aggro you.

In a typical MMO you stand still and spam the exact (literally exact) same buttons while not having to aim anything. Not sure why you think this is better.

The 12 year old thing is kind of funny too. I have no idea what maturity has to do with combat systems, and besides, 12 year olds are often pretty good at video games. I know I was actually way better when I was 12 because I would get focused as fuck on the game.

Dragnelus · November 2015

Kajidourden said:

At least it made my decision about this VS Blade and soul easy lol. I had high hopes, and then everything I've read makes me say "Nope!" a little more each time.

Talking bout bns or bdo? Cant tell

For me it was the same, had high hopes for bns then it turns out p2w or p2 convience really hard and those damn founder packs. Then played alpha bdo BOOM light reached me:P

stayontarget said:

I feel like a lot of people are misinformed about this game. People should have been watching live streams of alpha. Here maybe I can help a few.

http://www.twitch.tv/bikeman/v/22577431

http://www.twitch.tv/t1gamingdn/v/22967526

or if you don't want to spend 5 hours watching a stream you can watch a few short video's.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BikestMan/search?query=Black+desert

Don't be fooled by what other people say, BDO is a dam good game.

Im still not sure what to expect in end/high game for the EU/NA version. I know I will have some fun for a few weeks/months for sure and for normal price im willing to pay that and see what the future brings :P

stonylein · November 2015

Nanfoodle said:

stonylein said:

Black Desert is bad because it's the 10000th WOW-Clone.

Again a post with no meaning. Why is it a WoW clone? Combat is not the same. Classes are not trinity like in WoW. Graphics and art are not in the same class. PvP is nothing alike. So again, what are you talking about?

because its tabtarget/lock-on-target combat, classes, lvls and progression wise very similar (level to 50 for the endgame to start), meaningless open world pvp (no penalties, player loot). its just the next dull themepark clone.

Sylann · November 2015

Hello All,

I don't think you should say that much bad things on the game.

"WoW like" is just a useless expression, and WoW was a big success cause of 3 things :
- Warcraft 3 was a success before
- WoW has almost no other MMO contestant to fight with for suppremacy ^^'
- And it was highly publicized, and there where few (or none) renowed website like this one to compare with different MMO.

For what I saw BSO doesn't seems as bad as you described it, and korean game which came to europe / US are only the one that worked in asia. If it works i supposed it must not be that bad, even if we don't like the same thing as them... but I allways hated the concept of game for eastern and game for western, i like eastern game and don't want someone to tell me what kind of game I have to play ^^

I'll try BSO and tell you what I think later, but to me it seems pretty good in terms of gameplay and graphics.

Have a nice day of debate

Sylann

stonylein · November 2015

Sylann said:

Hello All,

I don't think you should say that much bad things on the game.

"WoW like" is just a useless expression, and WoW was a big success cause of 3 things :
- Warcraft 3 was a success before
- WoW has almost no other MMO contestant to fight with for suppremacy ^^'
- And it was highly publicized, and there where few (or none) renowed website like this one to compare with different MMO.

For what I saw BSO doesn't seems as bad as you described it, and korean game which came to europe / US are only the one that worked in asia. If it works i supposed it must not be that bad, even if we don't like the same thing as them... but I allways hated the concept of game for eastern and game for western, i like eastern game and don't want someone to tell me what kind of game I have to play ^^

I'll try BSO and tell you what I think later, but to me it seems pretty good in terms of gameplay and graphics.

Have a nice day of debate

Sylann

you might be new to the mmorpg genre. "wow-like" doesn't mean something is bad, it means its just another redudant clone. wow surely was a good game, but having thousands of clones that provide few to none improvements and rely on exactly the same game systems and concepts is just useless and boring.

Braindome · November 2015

I'm not sure, but I thought it had something to do with the characters shooting firecrackers from their orifices.

Miffi89 · November 2015

stonylein said:

Sylann said:

Hello All,

I don't think you should say that much bad things on the game.

"WoW like" is just a useless expression, and WoW was a big success cause of 3 things :
- Warcraft 3 was a success before
- WoW has almost no other MMO contestant to fight with for suppremacy ^^'
- And it was highly publicized, and there where few (or none) renowed website like this one to compare with different MMO.

For what I saw BSO doesn't seems as bad as you described it, and korean game which came to europe / US are only the one that worked in asia. If it works i supposed it must not be that bad, even if we don't like the same thing as them... but I allways hated the concept of game for eastern and game for western, i like eastern game and don't want someone to tell me what kind of game I have to play ^^

I'll try BSO and tell you what I think later, but to me it seems pretty good in terms of gameplay and graphics.

Have a nice day of debate

Sylann

you might be new to the mmorpg genre. "wow-like" doesn't mean something is bad, it means its just another redudant clone. wow surely was a good game, but having thousands of clones that provide few to none improvements and rely on exactly the same game systems and concepts is just useless and boring.

But a lot of the mechanics that WoW uses aren't broken or bad. Therefore removing them completely would be stupid. The biggest flaw, to myself and many others, was the tab targeting system. As others have mentioned literally standing on one spot and spamming a button rotation for 'max damage output' is just mind numbing and boring. Might not be for others, but for a majority it is. There is where the change or improvement is from WoW and its a massive one. WoW has aged well, but its still aged and another area you see improvement is the graphics, which again, to a lot of people is a welcomed change. But many aspects of what makes WoW the 'staple' for MMO's is actually good ideas and would be stupid to remove everything. So of course companies aren't going to remove everything - if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Andistotle · November 2015

Thebeasttt said:

I've never played Black Desert but I had really high hopes for the game until I watched a few streams. I was turned off by a few things. The asian "warp all over the place" keyspamming combat is a huge minus for me, as are the overexaggerated anime style animations for every little thing you do. That's also what I hated about ArcheAge, as well as, the immersion killing labor point system(which I hear Black Desert mimics? lol).

Everything else about the game looks great but combat is half the game so likely going to pass on this one. I get the same feeling with Crowfall, everything looks good except the combat

it must be boring to be so picky as you are. Never happy with any game no matter what. There are so many ppl on this site that dont do anything but complain how modern MMO's suck.

stonylein · November 2015

Miffi89 said:

But a lot of the mechanics that WoW uses aren't broken or bad. Therefore removing them completely would be stupid. The biggest flaw, to myself and many others, was the tab targeting system. As others have mentioned literally standing on one spot and spamming a button rotation for 'max damage output' is just mind numbing and boring. Might not be for others, but for a majority it is. There is where the change or improvement is from WoW and its a massive one. WoW has aged well, but its still aged and another area you see improvement is the graphics, which again, to a lot of people is a welcomed change. But many aspects of what makes WoW the 'staple' for MMO's is actually good ideas and would be stupid to remove everything. So of course companies aren't going to remove everything - if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I never said fix wow. i said wow was a good game. i said its boring to have mindless clones of the same game over and over. yeah, a few similar games won't hurt. but if almost all games releasing the 10 years after wow are redundant clones, there is something wrong. if there is a mechanic that works well, you surely have a point in reusing that mechanic in a new game. but if all games use the same mechanics over and over, noone cares about them anymore because they are redundant. sure, there always will be new players who eat up any shit that is created, since they don't know anything about video games. but for people who have been around for some decades, this is just depressing.

Heretique · November 2015

DMKano said:

The original version of the game up to CBT2 was very different,it had planned features that were either cut or completely removed or changed significantly:

Open world housing (changed to instanced)
Open world bosses (changed to solo summonable bosses)
Unrestricted auction house system (changed to dev enforced min/max pricing)
Player to player trade - removed
PvE group content - changed to 100% solo content
Naval combat - removed
Leveling speed increased about 3x-4x
Introduced vigor points consumption during processing steps in crafting

PvP was significantly changed as well

Open world PvP nerfed - removed low level PvP, imposed HEAVY penalties for killing outside waring guilds, conquest system nerfed. Basically restricted PvP to end-game guild v guild only.

Overall the game shifted from open world sandbox to single player game with guild PvP end game which has left many of the original fans feeling disenchanted

As far as game being "bad" - completely subjective solo players who love action combat could have a few weeks of fun.

Pretty much this. People will argue fallacies but what it comes down to is they had an original plan and people were overjoyed by it. Then they pulled the truck off the bridge.

Sylann · November 2015

Stonylein, a game which use the good point found in others is not a clone. There is some good aspects in WoW and devs know that gamers like it, so they use it... that doesn't make it a clone... What bother me is the guys saying this is a clone of WoW (like you btw) cause you allways say this for every new MMO, if WoW is so good go play WoW... But even 10 years ago I never liked it cause of graphics, not realistics enough.
WoW like doesn't mean bad for me, but the one who are using this expression are borring, you can find a lot of negative points to a game but "there is a similar aspect with another mmo" is not a bad aspect ^^'

Phry · November 2015

ikcin said:

WoW had great marketing, it is not a great game, but a good one with great marketing. The overall gameplay of WoW is pointless, as the main goals are artificial achievements, the world is instanced, the PvE does not lead to PvP, the quest chains are linear, most of the game is quest grind, the PvP is dress up contest and limited instanced fight with tab targeting. Most of the WoW players are saying WOW! when the are playing a game with open world, even not very good one as BDO.

While it was relatively true that the game had good marketing, that would be as nothing if it wasn't also a great game, nor would over 5 million people still be playing it if that wasn't the case. Whether its as good or better than BDO is pretty much down to personal preference, and unfortunately for BDO, i don't think it has the same kind of mass appeal that WoW does, in much the same way that Eve Online has its own Niche, BDO will probably have similar issues, in that sense i think its very similar to Blade and Soul, to me the two games are virtually indistinguishable, they are also games that will appeal to a certain type of player, that doesn't make it a bad game, but it does mean that its a 'niche' game.

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