Botmaker sues Blizzard

l2avism · November 2015

Blizzard lost the lawsuit against honorbuddy in germany.
However blizzard reverse engineered honorbuddy and banned alot of users and then started suing random people in the USA claiming that they worked for Bossland.
As a result, the botmaker is now suing blizzard for copyright infringment.

(from Bossland site)
Bossland GmbH sued Blizzard (READ) and Court News July 2015
Greetings Buddies,

this week we have sent our lawsuit to the court of Leipzig. We have sued Blizzard to stop using Honorbuddy and Demonbuddy.

Honorbuddy and Demonbuddy are bots that automate WOW and D3. Blizzard sued me personally and as CEO in the court of Leipzig to stop using WOW and D3. Using means, to load it into RAM, to display it on any Monitor or Device and to save it on any harddisk. The court of Leipzig found it to be true that WOW and D3 are only ment to be used for personal usage.

Now we find, since WOW and D3 are ment to be used ONLY for privat use, the court made clear there is no ecxeption, following that logic Honorbuddy and Demonbuddy can only be for privat use too.

Months ago we withdraw Blizzard any licences they had with. We forbid them to use Honorbuddy and Demonbuddy in front of the court of Leipzig.

But not a month after, Blizzard started a big banwave and you know the rest. In court Blizzard also presented how they used Honorbuddy with *****engine. They were directly harming our intellectual property rights. We say enough is enough! If we find out that Blizzard uses Honorbuddy/Demonbuddy again - we will ask the court to put a fine on them for up to 250.000 EUR, and if not paid alternativelly up to 6 months jail for the man in charge. Stay tuned - we assume that the court will soon appoint a hearing, probably September - October.

The Federal Court of Justice of Germany, sent us its bill. This means that our very first case that found place in Hamburg, will soon be heared there. Our Court of Justice Lawyer already wrote his statement and the case looks strong from what i can tell. We expect a hearing and a decision somewhere in 2016. However, we have 2 more cases that just where decided by the Courts of Appeal in Dresden and Munich, that we will push to the next step: The Federal Court of Justice of Germany

All in all the last 2 months where very surprising. First we won vs Blizzard in Hamburg, then we lost vs the Banhammer, then we had 3 more court cases in 3 weeks and now it is all over for the moment.

Time to analyze things and look to the future. From what i can tell Blizzard is at the end of its patience. As higher we go, the more we win. It seems like they already see what will happen, once we are at the The Federal Court of Justice of Germany, and try with all might to stop us before we reach it.

They suceeded with Glider and with PoketGnome, but we will not fall as easily. Especially that all the latest decisions of the European Court of Justice teld to help us. On the other side, we have informed us heavily before we picked up our The Federal Court of Justice Lawyer. At the moment there are only 45 Lawyers that can represent a party there. So even if until now Blizzard with its lawfirms with 100s of lawyers had the power to flood us with a lot of written nonsense, the The Federal Court of Justice equal firepower rules still count.

tawess · November 2015

Not to say it does not sound as airtight as they claim it to be. But i have my doubt about this part "Months ago we withdraw Blizzard any licences they had with. We forbid them to use Honorbuddy and Demonbuddy in front of the court of Leipzig." But it might be a translation error.

Anyway i guess this will be a ping-pong battle all the way to the highest court and somewhere along the way Blizzard will either bury them in costs or simply have better laywers.

CrazKanuk · November 2015

There must be a provision that gets Blizz around this. If it was as easy as getting a court order withdrawing any right to license their software, then every bot software out there could run rampant.

RemyVorender · November 2015

Scumbag botters.

Dakeru · November 2015

I have been a GM with the priority of bothunting on a game for 10 years and this is typical retarded botter mentality.

"I wasn't botting - I was using an intellegence not from this world."
One of the hundreds of excuses I heard over the years.

"We didn't allow them to bot so we will sue them as counter measurement lolololol I IS BRILLIANT!!!"
The whole disgusting botter filth should get jail sentence on top of losing all their money.

Ikeda · November 2015

I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.

It's a very slippery slope in regards to legality but even the Supreme Court in the US upheld the rights of the end-user to modify things to their desire. If Blizzard wants to prevent this, then all the protections should be SERVER side so that way they can retain the right due to subscription TO THEIR server. Rather, they are trying to enforce what we can/can't have on our PC's which is far more sinister.

Imagine if Windows said you couldn't download iTunes because it's Apple. Or Steam says no Origin allowed.

What then? That's exactly where this is going folks and you're cheering on the precedent.

Horusra · November 2015

Ikeda said:

I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.

It's a very slippery slope in regards to legality but even the Supreme Court in the US upheld the rights of the end-user to modify things to their desire. If Blizzard wants to prevent this, then all the protections should be SERVER side so that way they can retain the right due to subscription TO THEIR server. Rather, they are trying to enforce what we can/can't have on our PC's which is far more sinister.

Imagine if Windows said you couldn't download iTunes because it's Apple. Or Steam says no Origin allowed.

What then? That's exactly where this is going folks and you're cheering on the precedent.

I think it depends. Are you leasing access or buying the software? If I lease an apartment I do not get to renovate it.

Dakeru · November 2015

@Ikeda ;

Check your moral compass

CrazKanuk · November 2015

Ikeda said:

I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.

It's a very slippery slope in regards to legality but even the Supreme Court in the US upheld the rights of the end-user to modify things to their desire. If Blizzard wants to prevent this, then all the protections should be SERVER side so that way they can retain the right due to subscription TO THEIR server. Rather, they are trying to enforce what we can/can't have on our PC's which is far more sinister.

Imagine if Windows said you couldn't download iTunes because it's Apple. Or Steam says no Origin allowed.

What then? That's exactly where this is going folks and you're cheering on the precedent.

It's not controlling what is on your computer, it's controlling the interaction of that software with their client software. Next thing you're going to say is that hacking and stealing money from people's bank accounts is OK because the bank shouldn't have security flaws.

tawess · November 2015

Ikeda said:

I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.

I don´t really think ANYONE cares what you do with the client you bought... It is what you do once you connect to the service you are SUBSCRIBING to that people get annoyed.

SBFord · November 2015

This news is actually from July 2015 but has relevance with regard to last week's announcement by Blizzard. If you'd like to read the original thread, you can check it out on the Bossland forum:

https://www.thebuddyforum.com/the-buddy-bots/legal/220566-bossland-gmbh-sued-blizzard-read-court-news-july-2015-a.html

Leon1e · November 2015

Dakeru said:

@Ikeda ;

Check your moral compass

Justice haven't, or well, shouldn't have anything to do with moral. Never ever. It's part of why "justice is blind", If you know the famous quote. No room for emotions.

Botting is *NOT* illegal in any country. It's not a crime as per se. It's just against EULA. Thankfully, in Europe, EULAs are as big as toilet paper. They're far from contracts.

azarhal · November 2015

Poor Blizzard, they forgot that when fighting against things you consider illegal, you cannot yourself do illegal things (like using a product you don't have a license for or reverse engineering it without approval).

Horusra · November 2015

Has everything to do with societal morals. Dueling use to be justice for disputes but not today.

Leon1e · November 2015

Horusra said:

Has everything to do with societal morals. Dueling use to be justice for disputes but not today.

There's constitutions, there's law. Everything else is just a static noise. Justice works with the law. Not some imaginary emotion.

It's precisely why big corporations are lobbying for laws. Throwing millions in the process.

jesteralways · November 2015

Ikeda said:

I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.

It's a very slippery slope in regards to legality but even the Supreme Court in the US upheld the rights of the end-user to modify things to their desire. If Blizzard wants to prevent this, then all the protections should be SERVER side so that way they can retain the right due to subscription TO THEIR server. Rather, they are trying to enforce what we can/can't have on our PC's which is far more sinister.

Imagine if Windows said you couldn't download iTunes because it's Apple. Or Steam says no Origin allowed.

What then? That's exactly where this is going folks and you're cheering on the precedent.

You should read EULA, ToU and ToS of any online or mmo game when installing. Reverse engineering of any component of such games break ToS and ToU and direct violation of EULA. Try reading those in any of your online games' installation folder.

Leon1e · November 2015

jesteralways said:

Ikeda said:

I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.

It's a very slippery slope in regards to legality but even the Supreme Court in the US upheld the rights of the end-user to modify things to their desire. If Blizzard wants to prevent this, then all the protections should be SERVER side so that way they can retain the right due to subscription TO THEIR server. Rather, they are trying to enforce what we can/can't have on our PC's which is far more sinister.

Imagine if Windows said you couldn't download iTunes because it's Apple. Or Steam says no Origin allowed.

What then? That's exactly where this is going folks and you're cheering on the precedent.

You should read EULA, ToU and ToS of any online or mmo game when installing. Reverse engineering of any component of such games break ToS and ToU and direct violation of EULA. Try reading those in any of your online games' installation folder.

EULA in Europe is as hot as toilet paper. Especially if installation is allowed without reading it. EULA is not contractual. Just fyi.

Blizzard are being counter sued because they actually "cracked" the bot program. And that is illegal. Thanks to anti-piracy laws. Botting is not piracy.

For that reason alone, even though I hate botters, I hope HonorBuddy stick it to blizzard.

"Political correctness" is a thing

P.S: And as much as Germany is concerned, you can't block access to a purchase unless the user is a nazi or something.

P.S 2: If my american brethren wonder why EULA means jackshit in EU, is simply because it is not legal to enforce it AFTER purchase (E.g. you don't agree to any EULA at the store). Pro-consumerist laws ftw

Thus #WeThePeople could raise class-action lawsuits. Though we mostly don't because it's not worth the time investment for a 60$ refund.

P.S 3: Now that I think about it, EULA could be enforceable IF WoW was F2P

(Since no purchase)

Xeno.phon · November 2015

Dakeru said:

@Ikeda ;

Check your moral compass

Capitalism has no moral compass.

Thupli · November 2015

That CEO sounds like a jerk.

if I were blizzard, I sue them here in the USA since their product is being used here.

VorpalChicken28 · November 2015

Dakeru said:

@Ikeda ;

Check your moral compass

Surely you mean ethics?

Why bring religion into the mix?

Thupli said:

That CEO sounds like a jerk.

if I were blizzard, I sue them here in the USA since their product is being used here.

I think you'll find that you have to sue the company in it's country of origin, and since it's not a US company you have to sue them in Germany.

Horusra · November 2015

Leon1e said:

Horusra said:

Has everything to do with societal morals. Dueling use to be justice for disputes but not today.

There's constitutions, there's law. Everything else is just a static noise. Justice works with the law. Not some imaginary emotion.

It's precisely why big corporations are lobbying for laws. Throwing millions in the process.

Laws are formed by the morals of the society and change with the society. There is no universal laws beyond those that wild animals follow.

Kilrain · November 2015

As much as I don't like seeing bots, I find it hard to lean on Blizzards side here. The companies did not create the software with the intentions of harming and could be in fact argued that the software enhances user experience (this isn't what it's used for, that's not the point).

Blizzard obviously has the right to ban anyone at any time for whatever reason they want, that also isn't the point.

edit: By not "lean on Blizzards side" I don't mean that I like bots or want to use them, I just think they're going about it the wrong way. This isn't and shouldn't be a legal issue.

Thupli · November 2015

vorpal28 said:

Dakeru said:

@Ikeda ;

Check your moral compass

Surely you mean ethics?

Why bring religion into the mix?

Thupli said:

That CEO sounds like a jerk.

if I were blizzard, I sue them here in the USA since their product is being used here.

I think you'll find that you have to sue the company in it's country of origin, and since it's not a US company you have to sue them in Germany.

No you don't, they are selling their product in the USA and are under US law with the portion of their business that is here.

udon · November 2015

Kilrain said:

As much as I don't like seeing bots, I find it hard to lean on Blizzards side here. The companies did not create the software with the intentions of harming and could be in fact argued that the software enhances user experience (this isn't what it's used for, that's not the point).

Blizzard obviously has the right to ban anyone at any time for whatever reason they want, that also isn't the point.

edit: By not "lean on Blizzards side" I don't mean that I like bots or want to use them, I just think they're going about it the wrong way. This isn't and shouldn't be a legal issue.

Given how aggressively companies like Blizzard protects their own IP and goes after people who reverse engineers it there is a bit of poetic justice here. I don't feel for the bot makers as they are parasites feeding off of the gaming community but on the other hand it's hard to feel sorry for companies like Blizzard either when one of the big sticks they have to beat on users is turned against them.

Dakeru · November 2015

vorpal28 said:

Dakeru said:

@Ikeda ;

Check your moral compass

Surely you mean ethics?

Why bring religion into the mix?

Well since you want to be so exact, I was talking about morality.

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper: In other words, it is the disjunction between right and wrong.[1]

Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.[2] Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness."

The distiction between right and wrong can be religious but doesn't have to be. I'm glad I was able to teach you something.

Bossland · November 2015

Thanks for the compliments from both sides, if you need any deeper knowledge about the issues in question, just ask.

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Botmaker sues Blizzard

(from Bossland site)

Bossland GmbH sued Blizzard (READ) and Court News July 2015

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Botmaker sues Blizzard

(from Bossland site)

Bossland GmbH sued Blizzard (READ) and Court News July 2015

Comments

This have been a good conversation

This have been a good conversation

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